Random COVID Stuff from Around the Web

Brendan, The point is that Americans have the right to make decisions about our own lives, and to the extent the government restricts that unjustly, citizens – note we are not subjects, here – have a right and a positive duty to resist. That is how the American republic is designed to work: people get a say when our elected representatives are being foolish or overcautious. Now perhaps you have a different idea about what measures might be appropriate to manage risk in Central Michigan. Fine. But you don’t live there; the decision of how to weigh economic concerns with… Read more »

Hi Farinata, I agree with you up to a point. The problem is some people won’t be in a position to wisely weigh economic concerns with public health and hygiene, and then, in the wake of something like Covid 19 land a lot of other people in serious danger. But the point I’d like to come back to, and which I also raised with Melody, is do you think that believers who give thumbs up to the people in Lansing who brandished weapons, in either a literal and/or symbolic fashion, brings glory to God and reflects the Spirit and mind… Read more »

I do – I think Christians should applaud good and righteous things, and people standing up to their would-be rulers is, under some circumstances, a very good thing. I am not at present under a government order that threatens to impoverish my family for little public gain. But if I were in that situation I would absolutely feel it my duty as a father and husband to defend my family through a non-violent demonstration. You as an Irishman should understand this from your own history – when peaceful remonstrance is disallowed, it does not lead to peace.

Thanks Farinata, I’m just pondering whether employing weapons, whether literally or symbolically, is consistent with the law of Christ.
i understand the necessity of standing up to aggression from foreign countries or homemade dictators. but it seems to me that the lockdown in America is fuelled by concern for the health and well being of the population, rather than anything devious and sinister.

Take care
Brendan

Sure, but you don’t need to read anyone’s mind here. It is not necessary for the argument to assume that the lock-down is part of a nefarious plot. The argument is straightforward: the governor of Michigan has imposed restrictions on the people, and the people are beginning to push back against it. They feel – very reasonably – that the cure is far worse than the disease, and want the governor to lay off. Their demonstration of political intent is a perfectly sensible and just remedy to their ills. Now if things come to shooting, that will be a different… Read more »

I think it’s questionable whether something like the historic Christian just war theory or Christian acceptance of the fact that some people are legally entitled to carry arms (e.g. army, police, farmers, etc), applies here. It’s unnerving, if even for symbolic reasons, armed citizens take to the streets brandishing weapons city halls or government offices. I can’t reconcile it with the Spirit of Christ, especially in this instance where it concerns the government’s genuine attempt to contain a virus that is infecting and wiping out thousands of people in the US as well in most other nations throughout the world.… Read more »

Christians taking to the streets to protest and defend themselves against governmental overreach may be unnerving to some, but it is also something that happens throughout Christian history in every Christian nation you can name. Christians throughout history have not objected to seeking peaceful means of redress to political grievances. Sometimes there are good reasons and the protesters – I had almost said protestants – are right, other times I suppose their motivations are venal or foolish. But to make the flat statement that such demonstrations are un-Christian means that your standards of piety exclude pretty much everyone else. That… Read more »

Thanks Farinata, Briefly, to take your three major points: a) I totally agree with you that Christians have the right (and over the centuries have exercised that right) to protest against their respective governments on many issues (e.g. abortion, same sex marriage etc). What I’m suggesting however is that it is questionable whether they have the right under God to bear arms in peacetime, certainly with regard to issues like buying paint etc., when the world is in the throes of a serious pandemic that is wiping out thousands of people. I can’t imagine Jesus giving the nod and wink… Read more »

Brendan, you keep making these kinds of declarations: “I can’t imagine Jesus giving the nod and wink to this type of behaviour, especially from his people.” But really, why is your imagination a litmus test for anything? We agree that a sovereign people has the right (I would say the duty) to petition the government for redress of grievances; in America (as with all civilized nations since the dawn of history) bearing arms is regarded as the natural right of a free man. That you dislike seeing these rights exercised, or disagree with those who do it, is not the… Read more »

Farinata, I’m interested that you say it is a “natural right”of a free man to bear arms. Would you equate “natural right” with “divine law?” I don’t believe you’ll find anything in the teaching of Jesus to justify violence or the threat of violence by his followers against their political or religious rulers. I don’t believe there is such a thing as “natural rights” in any case, as this is precisely kind of thing that abortionists and the pro-gay marriage lobby invoke to spread their cause. Protests or demonstrations are fine–we agree on that. But you speak of people such… Read more »

1. Natural rights. If there are no natural rights given by God to which we can appeal when a government entity does something we disagree with, then I don’t see how your politics admits a right of protest. If my rights are artificial, conferred by the state, I have no basis to object when the state takes them away. 2. Responsibility. The question about whether a given action is responsible, in the sense of good and reasonable and giving proper thought to consequences, is complex. Some things are more obvious than others – voluntary alligator wrestling is on one side… Read more »

Farinata, Thanks for your comments. Just a brief thought or two before signing off for now (I’ve had my say!). a) I meant there are no “natural rights” in the sense that everything is “grace.” Everything is rooted in God. Theologically “natural rights” or “nature” has often been understood as something separate from grace–something into which grace has to be infused. b) We need to be responsible in case we give people a false sense of security which might lead to sickness or possibly even death. That’s all I’m saying. c) I do indeed take serious and care about people… Read more »

Reasonable to you and some protesters maybe but not to the vast majority of American citizens. Bringing guns to a rally is antithetical to peaceful.

I dunno – many North American jurisdictions call armed policemen “Peace Officers”. It is almost as if guns are just tools that sometimes are used for good things and sometimes for bad things… Nah, he explained – it’s different when the government has weapons.