“Find me one place in the universe that is silent about Him. The stars sing about Him. The oceans provide the bass line. The mountain ranges skip like a calf, and the tree reach yearningly toward the Heaven that they so wonderfully represent to us. And the azure sky tells men to stop bonking their girlfriends” (Rules, pp. 227-228),
Have 'Em Delivered
Write to the Editor
There you go again! (happily, I say)
Pretty soon you’ll discover the Spirit in the wind, and salvation in fallen sparrows.
But then you’ll have to answer to the reformed fathers who found nature insufficient in what?, quantities of propositional content.
They say “Never silent, but mostly mumbles.”
Scripture is not so clever and edgy as our beloved writer but it is clear that the invisible (spiritual) attributes of God are clearly seen in the things that are made. But I tend to think that it is the works of God’s (spiritual) law written on every heart that instructs all men (and women) on “bonking,” more than the azure sky. Rom 1, 2. Job 38.. Ps 19.. The azure sky does tell us that the One who made it can do something about it when we ignore our conscience. I find myself wondering why the *suppression* of the… Read more »
I must say that as delightful as Wilson’s words can sometimes be, scripture is indeed very edgy, profound, and clever. It reveals itself, precept upon precept, never dry and flat, but full of treasures and mystery. “So why can’t those who live and die, post Christ, without hearing about Jesus, be justified by faith in the truth to which they have been exposed?” This is a conundrum that used to bother me, but over time I have come to trust that Christ always makes Himself known. Our job is to be sure that none are left behind, to spread the… Read more »
I hear you, ME. He does make Himself known; conscience / natural revelation / common grace have been sorely disparaged and marginalized for too long. When all is said and done we will see the full implications of “unto whom much is given… much will be required,” in terms of our faith in God’s revelation.
Nevertheless, we must remain fully engaged in the great commission. People should know about Jesus!
If nothing else, these election seasons reveal the utter futility of trusting in man/princes. Ps 118:8-9.
One need not hear about Jesus to have faith in and knowledge of Him.
“humble *reception* of the same natural revelation” — well, that just ain’t going to happen without an intervention by the Spirit.
“many (both Jew and Gentile) who lived prior to Christ’s coming were justified by faith, apart from the knowledge of Christ” — Or maybe they were given knowledge of Christ that was not intellectual / propositional / cerebral info type knowledge.
PH, we may not be that far apart… unless you mean some kind of irresistible intervention that would render our reception of the truth / Truth some kind of inevitable response to the stimulus of the Spirit. When we see the invisible attributes of God in the creation and feel the tug of conscience… it *is* the necessary intervention by the Spirit. (Prevenient grace if you like.) If Jesus is the Eternal Truth / Logos then He is present in all truth, even that which does not particularly mention His name or declare His crosswork for mankind. Without conscious faith… Read more »
Doug —
Sounds like you balk at “irresistibleness” that makes our “reception” of truth robotic?
Maybe that irresistible lingo is both too weak and too strong.
How can we understand dead Lazarus feeling the tug of life urging him forth?
How conscious was his faith?
What’s wrong with having an assurance of salvation preceding possible conscious faith in Christ?
“Irresistible” is not found in Scripture, explicitly, or by good and necessary inference. It’s time for common grace to get its due! We must not conflate physical death with the metaphor of dead in trespasses and sins. As DW brings out in this post, the natural revelation is never silent. Even those who may be dead in sin can clearly see the invisible attributes of God in creation and “do the works of the law” written on their hearts / conscience. What would the unreached base their assurance on if they had no knowledge of Christ? With no 1st John… Read more »
“What would the unreached base their assurance on if they had no knowledge of Christ? ”
Why say they are unreached? — because they’re not quite as conscious of what’s happening?
Perhaps they are as reached as you are!
Regarding assurance — there’s propositional-mental assurance, and then there’s a knowing that might even (hopefully even) surpasses these.
So our Rahab may see in a fallen sparrow or in the hairs in her brush, that God cares about her more that even these.
The Spirit witnessing to her spirit.
“And the azure sky tells men to stop bonking their girlfriends” This made me laugh. One of my favorite bits of scripture is from Job, “Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?” If not, than you are probably not God. There is just something within us all that can look about the wonder of creation and consider the possibility that we do not have all the answers, that perhaps some of the rules really do serve a vital purpose, that our own will is not necessarily vastly superior. There can be some doubt… Read more »
We do have the “natural” capability of knowing Him.
He reinforced this idea in the bit He spoke about fetus John displaying a work of faith.
Well, allow me to be a schoolmarm here. If men fully understood the significance of fetus John any better than women did, no one would be out casually bonking under the azure skies.
My favorite thing of this kind is how atheists can’t deny God without assuming him. Every word they utter takes transcendent truth and goodness for granted.
OT believers were saved by their heart felt belief in the promises about the coming messiah… not just the natural revelation via stars, moon and nature. They believed God and His prophets!
The magi and shepherds read the signs aright and worshipped Him. The Pharisees and Herod also read the signs aright… and they rebelled and tried to kill Him as an infant. Matt 2:3 says “all Jerusalem” was troubled about the coming of the Christ.
His prophets? — which prophets were those that Noah believed?
Or Melchizedek or those magi?
The promise of the Messiah was spoken to Adam and Eve…. by God. Pre-Noah… contrast Cain’s increasingly sin hardened line (Lamech) with that of Seth who’s son Enosh called upon the name of the Lord. It is Seth’s line that descends to Noah… not Cain’s!
By the time of the Magi the messianic prophecies had been written down!
Digging in?!
Where’d those magi find the writings?
And Melchizidek?
And the azure sky tells men to stop bonking their girlfriends.
Of course, at the same time Doug also keeps insisting, rather forcefully, that the azure sky doesn’t tell women not to murder their babies.
But he’s not a radical feminist or anything like that.
I don’t know what to say to someone who perceives Doug Wilson to be a rad/fem, beyond the fact that there are some people truly trapped in the Matrix who seem to believe that the all powerful female alien overlords have taken over the world and harvested the brains of all men.
Oddly enough, I think that idea grants women far more power than we actually have while robbing men of all moral agency.
female alien overlords have taken over the world and harvested the brains of all men
Um, not the brains. Doug is plenty smart enough.
And if Doug really does believe the azure sky does tell women not to murder their babies, then why did he just write two long articles arguing that women who hire someone to murder their babies shouldn’t be punished because they don’t know it’s wrong?
You should be asking why he didn’t say men who bonk their girlfriends should be punnished.
Yeah, that really makes a lot of sense, pal.
Are you some kinda skitzo or something?
Doug wrote about not prosecuting women who get abortions regardless of what the azure sky says, likewise he didn’t sugest prosecuting men who bonk their girlfriends.
Do you and “A dad” teach at the same seminary?
Neither of us teach at a seminary.
It’s obvious that Doug does not consider the testimony of the azure sky sufficiant to prosecute women who murder their children.
Neither of us teach at a seminary.
Then you have both missed your calling, because your formidable powers of logic would fit right in there. The inability to follow the most basic of arguments or employ even the most primitive logical reasoning skills are highly sought after attributes when seminaries hire professors. Combined with your propensity to jump in to discussions and “correct” others when you’re the one who hasn’t got a clue and completely embarrass yourself…heck, you’d probably be dean after only a year or two.
You guys should dust off your resumes.
https://youtu.be/kLCbFrfQUCs
Wait! What? you mean this isn’t a seminary?
; – )
The Sarcasm Tell (With an Absurd Absolute) http://blog.dilbert.com/post/141657128476/the-sarcasm-tell-with-an-absurd-absolute Posted March 25th, 2016 “This post won’t mean much to you unless you have been following my Master Persuader series. Today I will teach you to spot The Sarcasm Tell. When you see the tell it means you won the argument. But it won’t feel that way to you because cognitive dissonance will cause your opponent to reinterpret the world in some bizarre new way in order to avoid the appearance of being dumb………” Scott Adams forgot to add the part about the sarcasm tell and multiple Nom De Blog changes! ;… Read more »
Women didn’t create feminism.
Is this you again, Frank/Bull?