Letters You Clearly Haven’t Read Yet

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The Supper and the Love Feast

God has used you in mighty ways in my life and the life of many of my congregants. I am wrestling with how to take our congregation from being a “grape juice” congregation into using wine during communion . . . and that got me thinking. . . .You assert that to not drink wine during communion is sin—and I have begun to agree with you! But what would you say to another group who looks at your practice of ingesting wine and says, “Yes, fine and good, but Jesus ate an entire meal with His disciples. You’re sinning because you only have a sip of wine and a morsel of bread. You’re sinning because you aren’t drinking or eating ENOUGH.” What would be your response as I am friends with a dear brother who argues for such a position?

Iowa Pastor

IP, I would say that the early church had a practice that conjoined two things, the love feast and the Supper. The Supper was not the whole meal, but rather a moment that was part of the meal. This is how it was possible for some at Corinth to have too much to drink. We have incorporated the Supper into the worship service itself, but that leaves the potlucks just where they always were, which is entirely lawful.

Kids in Church

I’m at a Baptist church with great Kingdom mindedness. But my son is almost 2, unfortunately not baptized, but we have a conviction that he is a member of the covenant so we have withheld him from the kids’ church program that he may participate with the body of saints on the Lord’s day thus far in his life. A few weeks ago I & some other members from my church were confronted by the pastor and merely encouraged to put our children into the program instead of keeping them in service with us. The “encouragement” which was determined to be just that, has now evolved into texts from the pastor saying that the service is getting noisy and that we need to put our children in the program and get on board with the direction of the rest of the church.
Is keeping children in the worship service something worth fighting for or should I out of honor oblige?

IS

IS, what I would encourage you to do is assure the pastor that you and your friends will endeavor to be acutely sensitive to the moments when a child is becoming disruptive, and that you will whisk them out of there pronto. Work with them, in other words.

Ah, Columbia

On “The Great Shantytown Plausibility Structure”:
Everything you’re saying regarding Columbia and what’s going on being tied to the philosophical fallacy of secularism is true, but there’s also something else that is failing to be addressed (or even named) by most of Christianity with respect to these protests:
There are well funded agitators and fomenters driving the entire thing, and aided in every way by the media. Just as with the BLM riots in 2016 and 2020 (and right on schedule, in fact . . .) the entire situation is being manufactured into the public sphere of attention, and Christians are predictably providing the exact reaction these agitators are looking for—reacting to the issue du jour instead of calling out that society is being played for fools.
This is one area where James Lindsay has been dead on: For Marxists the issue is never the issue, the reaction is the issue.

Ian

Ian, yes. Exactly so.

Not Sure I Understand the Question

Trinitarian question for you. Why is it appropriate to refer to the Holy Spirit as “God’s Spirit” and Christ as “God’s Son”, but not appropriate to refer to the Father as “God’s Father”?

Cooper

Cooper, in the first two instances, the word God is referring to the Father, which would be nonsensical in the third instance.

Wounds of a Friend

In one of your letters you advised to learn as much as you can and keep as much as you can to yourself. Implementing that principle has been extremely liberating for me. Thank you!
However, recently, a friend thanked me and feels extremely grateful because I had pestered him to join a sound church for about ten years, and now he and his family are members of a sound church, and they’ve tasted the good fruit and cannot go back.
If I were to ask myself, what would I have wanted someone to do if I was ignorant of a weighty issue such as being part of good church or a not so weighty issue such as having bad breath, I think would want to be told, be badgered about it, and even be sharply rebuked. This desire to be told/hit by the truth is of course in hindsight of having accepted the truth. For surely before I accept the truth, I’d be wishing that the person/friend stop annoying me about it. But if I were to wise up, I would surely be grateful to those that were blunt about the truth. I’m certain most of us have stories of people who were maybe even rude to us about some of our shortcomings that we later in life, maybe much later, felt grateful for. I want to help my friends see things they should. I want others, at least those who call me a friend, to help me see things that I should.
So, my questions then are
1) is there a balance between, on one hand, being prudent, keeping information to oneself, answering to the point and only when a question is asked or advice sought, and on the hand, being the person who informs/badgers people about issues that would, of course, in my opinion, be good for them? For example, if I see a church member self-deprecating a lot, do I tell them that that is unbecoming of a man, and it isn’t true humility? Or do I just keep that information, that I learnt later than I would’ve like to, to myself?
2) If yes, what principles do I use to stay balanced?
3) Are there any books or resources you would recommend on dealing with this topic?
Thanks,

J

J, the principle to use in determining whether or not to get into someone’s business is the metric of evaluating how close you actually are to the person. Friendship has obligations that observation from across the room does not. Most of us can see faults earlier than we have made an investment in the relationship itself. In other words, that impulse can be good, but I would still ride the brake on it.
What advice would you give for someone who holds strongly to all the distinctives of the CREC, has young children they want to commune, and loves the music, liturgy, and culture of the CREC but the only CREC church within driving distance has leadership that are evil (and I do not say this lightly)? It’s getting worse: is it better to stay where we are and keep our heads down and ignore what they are doing, or leave (Prov. 15:17)? The only other option is a large, run-of-the-mill PCA church at which we would have a hard time feeling at home and our children could not commune.
Is it honest to take communion from elders, support them with our tithe, and submit to their authority and teaching when we know them to be wicked men?
Many others in the church are unhappy with the leadership and know them to be dangerous but have no recourse and feel they are being held theologically hostage.

Q

Q, the charge of “wickedness” is a weighty one, and though you say you do not say it lightly, it is still possible that this is what is happening. If things are evil, and you can prove it, then stay and prove it. If you cannot prove it, then you shouldn’t be saying it in a letter to the editor. Address it by means of the church’s constitution. If you cannot do this, then you should simply leave without dark insinuations.

Hey, Check it Out

Hey Doug, Pigweed and Crowhill (that’s me) did a podcast on Christian Nationalism in which we rely somewhat on your interview with the Babylon Bee boys. You might like it.

Greg

Greg, thanks. All, the podcast is below.

The Lord’s Two Genealogies

I have recently began reading “The Age of Reason” by Thomas Paine, in which he promotes the religion of Deism and claims that the God of the Bible is a myth and the Bible a book of fables. In pages 153-6 of his book, he says the following:
“The history of Jesus Christ is contained in the four books ascribed to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. — The first chapter of Matthew begins with giving a genealogy of Jesus Christ ; and in the third chapter of Luke there is also given a genealogy of Jesus Christ. Did these two agree, it would not prove the genealogy to be true, because it might nevertheless be a fabrication ; but as they contradict each other in every particular, it proves falsehood absolutely. If Matthew speaks truth, Luke speaks falsehood ; and if Luke speaks truth, Matthew speaks falsehood : and as there is no authority for believing one more than the other, there is no authority for believing either ; and if they cannot be believed even in the very first thing they say, and set out to prove, they are not entitled to be believed in any thing they say afterwards. Truth is an uniform thing; and as to inspiration and revelation, were we to admit it, it is impossible to suppose it can be contradictory. Either then the men called apostles were imposters, or the books ascribed to them have been written by other persons, and fathered upon them, as is the case in the Old Testament . . .
The entire book—which I have noticed is not on your website’s Reading List of Completed Books—has left me questioning my faith, and this alleged contradiction in Matthew 1 and Luke 3 is just one of the biggest reasons why that is. My first thought when thinking about this was that maybe Luke 3 is really talking about Jesus’s ancestry through Mary, but this article pretty much demolished that idea. What do you think is really going on with these passages? Please respond with your thoughts.

Samuel

Samuel, please get and read The Incarnation of the Word by David Mitchell, and prepare to have your mind blown.

Not the Money

This may be widely understood and missed it but I have never read or heard any teaching regarding what seems to me to be the rich young rulers real spiritual barrier to inheriting eternal life, that of his self-righteousness, not his wealth. That is where the conversation between him and Christ was originally focused. If the young ruler had not answered Christ’s question regarding keeping the commandments in such a smug way by stating he had kept all the commandments from his youth, but had been more like the publican in Luke 18, beating his chest and asking Christ to be merciful to him a sinner, I wonder if Christ would have actually found it necessary to go after the young rulers wealth?
Certainly, the publican and the young ruler both had access to the same commandments and understanding of the God’s Law but, one found true righteousness through repentance and the other was looking for an angle to eternal life that was no doubt self serving, notwithstanding the possibility, as you eluded to, that the young ruler might have been John Mark who did eventually did find true righteousness. Of course this does not remove the issue of wealth being a barrier to the kingdom but the discussion, going from commandment keeping to giving away his wealth has always struck me as more of a self-righteous problem for the young ruler than one of wealth since wealth is not necessarily a barrier as self-righteousness is most certainly a barrier.

Rob

Rob, I think there is much in what you say.

Mom Working

If a family with a passel of kids has determined that the only way they’ll be able to afford to keep up Christian school for all the kids is for mom to go back to work when the youngest kids reach school age, how would you approach that tradeoff? Does it change anything if the job in question would be teaching at the Christian school the older kids already attend? Thanks,

Matt

Matt, that’s pretty close to what we did.

A Nice Heads Up

In case this might ever be useful for a post: a claymore mine with “This Side Towards Wilson” on the front. Loved your Tucker Carlson interview and the Nuance session!

Tim

Tim, thanks. I see I need to watch my step . . .

The Lost Valleys of Westminster

Simple curiosity prompted this question, but maybe there will be accompanying
good effects from your answer . . .
Please, what exactly are some of those places in the Westminster Confession
(ha :) . . . where no white man has ever set foot?
Thank you and very good regards!

Robert

Robert, I had in mind passages like the one that describes how the efficacy of baptism is really “exhibited and conferred.”

Simple Thanks

I wanted to briefly extend a thanks to your ministry, and your constant “barking.”
Your writing has helped me understand rhetoric and argument to a greater extent, even after going through two years BCS. Even more importantly, as a Christian who has existed in a pop-Evangelical fog, your writing has helped me understand, know and appreciate the Godness of God, which in turn has instilled a greater fear of God. Why are the simplest, clearest truths sometimes the hardest to absorb? But I’ve slowly started to absorb a littler better as I read or listen to your stuff, and the stuff on Canon. Throughout your writing, there is always an ultimate presumption, or rather a primordial acknowledgement of the on True and Living God. I’m striving to imitate you in that manner now. All of Christ for all life. All praise be to Him.
Anyway, please, no need to respond. Just wanted to say thank you and God bless.
“But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called ‘today,’ that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.” Hebrews 3:13
Best regards,

Michael

Michael, but I will respond with simple thanks.

And Now for a Different Perspective . . .

I have read much of what Mr. Wilson has written, and things also written about him. My conclusion is that he thrives on controversy as a way to make himself heard and to get followers, not in order to point to Jesus and His works, and His way. Case in point. Mr. Wilson claims we should not as Christians, engage in foul speech and points to Scriptures that support this. Then he turns around and excuses his own coarse speech by claiming it is needed to meet the enemy on their own ground when it’s called for. Sounds like he is more interested in doing things his way than how God has instructed us to handle our enemies—HIS enemies. He is a compromiser and a poor influence. We are dealing with a young man in our congregation who seems more interested in what Doug Wilson says than the Bible and my husband, the head elder, has to deal with him now since our pastor died a few months ago.
P.S. And you are incredibly arrogant as well

Barbara

Barbara, I pray that the Lord show you some extraordinary kindness today.

Palestine

I was wondering if you had any teachings on the so called Palestinians origins, or the origins and history of Palestine Thank you

Frank

Frank, the name Palestine goes back to the Romans. But the current arrangement of Jordan, the West Bank, and Gaza is largely the result of people starting wars that they keep losing.

Thanks

Concerning your blog post on Christian Nationalism, please refer to Bill Federer’s historical look at Christian “nationalism.”
We cannot let the globalists redefine truth and co-opt language. The correct term is Christian patriotism.

Charles

Charles, thanks for the feedback.

An Immigration Question

Please help me square your views on immigration with the Gospel. I cannot bear cognitive dissonance. I am a Christ follower who has also been reading your books and following your blog now for a couple of years. I am 95% with you. In your Tucker Carlson interview, you said 1) That we can’t have unbridled immigration because it would mess up the “shared moral consensus” and 2) You use the analogy of the foster care dad who is asked to take in more foster children. I think both of these arguments are off the mark. First, if as you claim, our nation is so far gone that there is not even a political solution, then what “shared moral consensus” are the hordes of immigrants going to threaten? In fact, for much of the last half century most immigrants have come from Catholic countries. Wouldn’t their cultural assumptions and traditions actually assist in the transformation of the U.S. into a Christian nation? Even if they aren’t all Christian, I would argue that folks from the global south would be much more likely to be conservative and God-fearing than Western European immigrants. With regard to the foster care dad argument, immigrants are not coming into your home. For the most part they are looking to rent, build, or buy their OWN homes. Some might start as refugees, but the story of immigration in America is most often one of striving young men and women coming, working, and starting (bigger than your average American) families. Finally, I think it’s a matter of Christian justice and charity to let more immigrants in. I would encourage you to research what the legal pathway is for an uneducated, poor Mexican, Guatemalan, Ethiopian, etc . . . person to immigrate here. You will find that it’s usually decades. Meanwhile we’ll be eating our 25 cent bananas from Guatemala. Why do the bananas only cost 25 cents? Is it not unjust that we allow freedom of movement for products but not of the people who made the products? As my favorite Christian band Five Iron Frenzy said, “You could end their suffering, but all you want is everything.” We have plenty of resources. The enemy at the gates is NOT the immigrant—Please help me see why I am wrong, if I am wrong. Thanks for all you do.

Curt

Curt, there is a still functioning moral consensus in much of the country that is cut off from our rulers, the same rulers who are fomenting chaotic immigration. The influx is calculated to erode what remaining consensus there is. You are right that our immigration challenge is not as dire as Europe’s is, because their immigrants are Muslim, and ours are largely Trinitarian. My position is that we should end the chaos without ceasing to be hospitable.

A Looming Challenge

I have the joy and privilege of courting a beautiful young woman, and if everything continues apace, we will be getting married in a few months, Lord willing. I have one concern though, and I’d appreciate your advice. She is very, very close to her family, and does not like to be by herself for long periods of time. She’s grown up with 5 younger siblings, and rarely spends time without them. My dilemma is this: when, Lord willing, we marry, she’s going to be at home by herself for long periods of time while I’m away working. We’ve talked about it, and she’s admitted that she will be very lonely at home alone, so much so that she’d like to have one of her siblings live with us. Obviously she doesn’t want that, nor do I want that for her, but I don’t have a great solution to the problem and I’m not totally on board with the sibling idea just yet. I want what’s best for her, especially spiritually and emotionally, but I don’t see a solution to this problem.
Thank you for your ministry, especially the Family Series, those books profoundly changed my life!

Reagan

Reagan, it is good that you are talking about it now, and I would suggest adding it to the list of things you pray for together. My tentative solution involves babies.

Enforcing the First Table

In your post, “Was John Calvin An Intolerista?” you stated that Servetus’ execution was a sin and a blunder. Would you please expand, theologically, on why it was a sin?
I’m currently reading Poythress’s book on the law of God, in which he engages with Greg Bahnsen on whether heresy should be punished by the state. Your thoughts would be very welcome.
In Christ,

JP

JP, I do believe that blasphemous heresy is (in principle) a punishable offense, and I do not believe that Servetus was the victim of great injustice. But I also believe that closer attention should have been paid to how the devil was going to use that execution.

A Suggestion

My wife and I (and three week daughter!) love your content and are so blessed reading everything from your family. I also, just signed up for Canon+ I notice there are lots of books on being a good husband and lots of content in various forms on being a father to sons. But I can’t seem to find anything regarding how to best father daughters. How about a book?

Andrew

Andrew, thank you for the nudge.

Pre-Evangelism?

Would you agree with Aaron Renn that the church needs to do more pre-evangelism (i.e. telling people who Jesus is before sharing the gospel)? In “Life in the Negative World,” Renn argues that modern America doesn’t just hate God. They have also completely forgotten who He is.
I don’t know if I agree with pre-evangelism because it often leads to stuff like the “He Gets Us” ads. I fear that pre-evangelism forgets that it is the Holy Spirit who regenerates a person, not us. Since it is God who changes hearts, we do not need to make the Lord more “marketable” to unbelievers. I understand that pre-evangelism has good intentions, but I fear it might make the church “seeker-sensitive” again.
I would love to hear your counsel on this matter.
Thanks,

Brandon

Brandon, I would prefer to make sure that teaching about who Christ is be incorporated as part of our evangelism.

Persecutions in This Time

What you said regarding Mark 10:23-31 is terrific. I think the thing that puzzles me with a part of it has to do with the phrase “now in this time”, because many of us have seen more of the “hundredfold persecutions” here on earth than the other stuff. Any thoughts to help expand/clarify on that?

Guymon

Guymon, yes, there have been persecutions. But compared to previous eras, believers in ours have never had it so good. And, zooming out, I believe that will be increasingly the case.
On a Million Camels:
Pastor,
I have roundly rejected the “health & wealth” preachers, and I do not take your take on this passage as being that. But I am also puzzling over your conclusion. Perhaps I have not yet realized the truth that would have me astonished “out of measure.”
In my own studies, I have concluded that what Jesus is saying is 1) wealth is not bad but a blessing, 2) those who trust in their wealth are wrong-headed, but it’s the head that’s wrong, not the wealth, 3) those who give it all away are lined up for special blessings, and 4) those blessings come in multiples of what they gave away.
Now, because Jesus says if we leave family, we will gain multiples of family (including wives), I don’t conclude that I will actually have multiple mommies (or wives). But it seems to me that when I sacrifice my material blessings for the sake of the gospel, I wind up invariably on the receiving end of hundreds of other people’s charity. In other words, someone who gives away his wealth for Jesus’ sake ends up receiving from many, many other people the same sort of material blessings. He gains hundreds of “brothers” and “sisters” and “fathers” and “mothers” all behaving like family. Still working on the “wives” part . . . but also hundreds of “homes” and “lands” and “camels” and “etc.”
So . . . are my scare quotes unnecessary, or are they exactly the point? I know for myself I left my extended family, my land, my home, my tractor, my friends, and even a couple of kids to pursue the calling God placed on me. But since then, I have gained countless multiples of all those things—except the tractor, but I bet I have access to a bunch of those, too, just for the asking.
Is this too simplistic or spiritualistic, or is this pretty much what Jesus meant? ‘Cause it seems like a natural reading, and it certainly fits with my own experience. Or . . . are you seeing something completely different and more glorious than that?

Andy

Andy, I think that what you are describing is very much a part of it. But I also believe that God has other ways of blessing directly.

The Wahoo Brethren

Regarding “Excesses of the Wahoo Brethren”
Around 1998 as a teenager I attended a Pentecostal church in Olympia, WA. My efforts to follow Christ was to pray little and feel guilty about not reading my bible; I obviously had some items to work on in life. Of course, there were the summer and winter camps and revival meetings to get myself straight, full of emotional highs, and subsequent lows, where much preaching of the word happened. At one particular meeting a speaker was “slaying people in the spirit”, of which I wanted to partake so that . . . well, maybe my relationship with Christ would improve. Not sure on that one, anyhow, I walked up front and the moment the speaker touched my forehead I felt something like a jolt of electricity, I went as limp as a bone fish, and I fell to the ground . . . and immediately sat up since the feeling ceased, and returned to my seat. I thought to myself . . . “ooooohhhhkkaaaay.”
A few month down the road nothing in my efforts to follow Christ changed. There was no sign of any change. Where was the Holy Spirit? Am I saved? I asked myself, what was the point of being knocked down and the high emotion services, if it didn’t change me for more than 24 hours? I finally decided, as with the big push to speak in tongues, that I would not seek those experiences (slain in Spirit) by forcing them, rather let God convict me if they were indeed important to God, and ignore otherwise. To put it simply, it was necessary to daily seek Christ, not try to find Him at summer camp. Years later I was recalling the experience of being knocked down, and a small, but clear thought popped into my head “was that even of God?” I lean more towards that it was a seeking signs and wonders, thing, than anything good. After 15 years at a Calvary Chapel, which I enjoyed thoroughly, God kindly arranged circumstances to get me to a CREC in Centralia, WA, and now I wish I had been there all along. Now the new push is for beards and cigars(not here in Centralia though) . . . but I jest, mostly.
Cheers,

David

David, thanks. God brings us in from all over.

What Crowd Sourcing Can Do . . .

Not certain how to direct this—I’m looking for an authentic staunchly reformed church body in Switzerland with whom I might connect, for the purpose of a visit. Any point of contact or advise as to how I’d go about it are greatly appreciated and God’s hand on your work.

Joe

Joe, I don’t, and so I turn to ask our readers. Anybody know anything about Switzerland?

A Starter Kit?

I’ve known about you for several years, but it wasn’t until recently that I started listening to you—it’s already been a great blessing to me! I want to read some of your material but to your credit, you’re prolific and so I’m not sure where to even begin. Could you recommend 5 (or so) of your more practical/applied books to dive into first? For context, I’m a 27-year-old male and I’ve been married for a couple years, (no kids, although hopefully that changes soon!). I attend a faithful church and personally hold to the 1689 2LBCF—so if your recommendations contain minimal pesky paedobaptist shenanigans, it would be appreciated ;).
Thanks Doug, may God bless you!
Yours in Christ,
P.S. Have you ever worn red and secretly thought to yourself, “I’d make a mean Santa Claus”?

MM

MM, no, the Santa Claus thing has not troubled me much. As to book recommendations, I would suggest Reforming Marriage, Why Children Matter, Mere Fundamentalism, Gashmu Saith It, and Rules for Reformers.

The Ethics of Nukes

Sparked by the war in the Middle East, the Right is currently embroiled in a debate over the ethics of war, and what constitutes a just war.
The example of Hiroshima and Nagasaki is often pointed to. Some say (Ben Shapiro, for example) “it was morally right to drop the a-bombs because it meant less people died overall.” Some others say (Tucker Carlson, for example) “it was morally wrong to drop the a-bombs because man is playing God and it’s plain murder to drop a bomb on people.”
How do you process this problem theologically? On which side of the fence do you land?
I sympathize with the utilitarian argument, because I naturally prefer less people to die. I also understand that we enter dangerous territory when we start deciding who gets to live and who doesn’t, based on a hypothetical. But if we take this to its natural conclusion, it means that it is never right to make a strategically preemptive strike ever. Because in so doing, you are calculating that if I attack now, I will save more lives in the long run. However, this appears to border on stupidity in certain circumstances where a preemptive strike might be essential for protecting the citizens of a country.
As I write this, I realise that I am actually just describing the Trolley Problem. So, to significantly simplify the question—should you shift the tracks in the Trolley Problem?
Regards in Christ,

Harry

Harry, in just war theory, it is not right to make direct war on non-combatants. But at the same time, in an all-out war, there will of necessity be significant collateral damage. In the Old Testament, it was lawful to besiege a city, even though that would cause suffering for the civilian population. With the nukes, I have more of a problem with our conventional firebombing of Tokyo (what with their “paper” houses) than with the nukes. We only had two of them, we weren’t sure they would both work, the Japanese didn’t surrender after one city was incinerated, the cities were industrial targets and part of the war effort, and the cities were leafleted beforehand, warning people to get out. So all in all, I am inclined to think it was a lawful decision, albeit a very challenging one.

Trading Stock

Thanks for everything you do. I know some people involved in stock trading. Do you think it is ethical for a Christian to trade stocks based only on observed technical / economic patterns? It is hard to see if this type of trading provides any service.
Some edge cases seem clearer: there are some company stocks I wouldn’t want to own at all based on what the company does, and some types of the ultra-fast trading seem unfair. Excluding those edge cases, the situation seems more murky.
Thanks,

Andrew

Andrew, I think it is perfectly lawful, provided you are not assuming that you know more than you actually do.

A Couple Questions About Jews

Does your view of the Jews necessitate foreign policy support of the nation of Israel? What is your general view of us giving money to foreign nations? I listen to a lot of conservatives pundits complain about the budget bills and how much we are giving away. How do we think about this Christianly?

Shea

Shea, no. Support for Israel does not require agreement with particular decisions that Israel makes. I believe the amount of foreign aid we give is beyond ridiculous. We are not an overt empire, but rather an empire of wire-pulling, and I think we should cut way back. The “Christianly” part of this is that I believe we would need scriptural warrant to butt in, and we don’t require scriptural warrant for butting out.
I’m curious as to why you support Israel. Do you believe in human rights, especially the right to freedom of religion? Do you have a right to force your religion on others? Do others have a right to force their religion on you? How would you feel if someone tried? You claim to have “affection for Jews.” But does God love the Palestinians? Do the Palestinians have a right to freedom of religion? I’m anxious to get your answers.

Justice

Justice, yes, God loves the Palestinians, and the Palestinian Christians are in a particularly hard spot. And my answer to all your rhetorical questions would be the obvious answers—no, we shouldn’t force religious convictions on others, etc. But we do impose laws on people, which is what a law is, and laws require a religious foundation. The final point is that there will be peace in Israel when the Palestinian leadership accepts Israel’s right to exist. This is not a requirement that they accept Israel’s right to be correct about everything, simply their right to exist.

Gentle Parenting

Biblical Child Rearing in an Age of Therapeutic Goo (1) and (3)
I have a question.
I’ve been pro spanking and recently was reading up on the gentle parenting movement’s arguments against it from a biblical perspective. They go about excusing the child in proverbs as being an adolescent among other things. I found it unconvincing, and took the line of thought you first mention in Biblical Child Rearing in an Age of Therapeutic Goo 3. We are supposed to parent as God does. But thinking about God’s example from the Bible I am a bit confused as to how God parents. He seems to set his children loose for great periods of time and then have a firm hand for a time, and so the cycle continues. This is an over simplification, but how would you describe God’s parenting style?
Curiously—

John

John, the closer we get to the elect, the more information we have about God as a Father. The more we zoom out, the more we see God functioning as a king.

Catholic Integralism

You are a Protestant, you naturally write for Protestants. Still, in your FAQ on Christian Nationalism, I was a tad disappointed you elided any reference to Catholic integralism.
I’d be much obliged if you could sketch out your thoughts on the integralist project. Is it a form of Christian Nationalism? If not, why not? Is there room for Catholic integralists and Christian Nationalists to work together? Would an integralist state be part of Christendom—or at odd with it?
Thanks in advance!

SW

SW, quite honestly, I don’t know enough about the movement to say much about it. I am very much in the Protestant world. What I do know would indicate room to be co-belligerents from time to time.

Pushback from Christians

Thanks for all your content. It seems that when Christians like yourself stand for Reformed theology in all its aspects (patriarchy, Calvinism, biblical cultural engagement etc) the ones who push back the most are other professing Christians. How do you differentiate your serrated edge approach when you get push back about these things from other Christians who try and say you are making non essential things essential. Often what I hear is “we just focus on the gospel”. Appreciate your feedback.

JJT

JJT, the question to ask in such situations is “essential to what?” Agreement on such things is not essential to salvation. It is, however, essential to understanding what the heck is going on in the culture around us.
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Mark H.
Mark H.
7 months ago

Rob, my best understanding of Jesus’ words to the rich young man came from (I think) R. C. Sproul. It went something like this:

“OK – you say you have kept all the commandments. Very well, we’ll start with the first one. No other god. Sell everything you have and give it to the poor. Let’s see who your god really is.”

Robert
Robert
7 months ago
Reply to  Mark H.

Granted a/the fundamental problem with the Rich Young Ruler was self-righteousness (and greed/covetousness, etc.).
But Is it possible this young man was asking sincerely… from a truly bothered/convicted conscience…. what must he do to get to Heaven?
Is there anything in the text to indicate he approached Jesus with a spirit of smug self-righteousness?

Mark H.
Mark H.
7 months ago
Reply to  Robert

Not being able to work with the Greek, I can’t say. But whether smug or not, believing that you have kept all the commandments is self-righteousness.

Robert
Robert
7 months ago
Reply to  Mark H.

Amen! … my question was merely if his self-righteousness was “conscious” self-righteousness … like the Pharisees was.
But regardless, you are correct… he needed Jesus and His Righteousness. …. I hope he eventually believed the Gospel.

Rob
Rob
7 months ago
Reply to  Robert

I’m not sure you could classify the pharisees self-righteousness as “conscious”. I’ll have to contemplate that a bit but, as stated, self-righteousness all the same. The problem of self-righteousness is certainly a continuing battle in the mind of the believer as well. Attempting to sort out our motives is challenging. I think Doug pointed out, all our decisions/choices/acts are a mixture of both. Probably why even our good works are filthy.

Last edited 7 months ago by Rob
Rob
Rob
7 months ago
Reply to  Mark H.

Mark H.,
Thanks for sharing. A quite compelling understanding of the exchange between Christ and the young ruler and why Christ might have used the young rulers wealth as a test of his commandment keeping. I followed Sproul for a long time but never caught that. Thanks Again!

Mr. K (uncelebrated)
Mr. K (uncelebrated)
7 months ago
Reply to  Mark H.

Mark H. It was definitely R.C., and I’m pretty sure it was in the Ultimate Issues video series.

Ian
Ian
7 months ago

Per Andrew’s question about what value that sort of technical stock trading is providing: It is indeed providing value – he’s helping the market get to a more accurate value of the stock in question.

Jane
Jane
7 months ago

It’s interesting that the letter about pre-evangelism seems to conflate “tell people who Jesus is” with “tell people that Jesus is the kind of Jesus they want Him to be.” It seems like “tell people who Jesus is” is the exactly opposite of making Him palatable, it’s telling who He is. The problem with things like “He Gets Us” is precisely that they don’t tell who Jesus is, they just use His name as a bromide.

Kathleen Zielinski
Kathleen Zielinski
7 months ago
Reply to  Jane

Jane, one thing I’ve noticed over the years is that most people believe God has the same social and political views that they do. You are a social and political conservative, so you believe that God favors capitalism, opposes abortion, and is less than enthusiastic about all the mosques that are going up. My husband is a Christian whose political views align with Bernie Sanders, so he thinks God wants us to have a solid social safety net, high taxes on the rich, and taxpayer funded abortions. In both your case and his case, it’s massive confirmation bias. You, and… Read more »

Jane
Jane
7 months ago

I’m not sure how any of that relates to the point that teaching who Jesus is, from the scriptures, King of King and Lord of Lords and Savior of the world, is not the same thing as making Him in our own image. I didn’t say that we should teach people that Jesus is “who I think He is,” but who He is. My understanding is subject to revision if/when the revealed Word of God shows the need of it. You sound like you think that teaching accurately from the scriptures is an impossibility. If that’s the case, we might… Read more »

Last edited 7 months ago by Jane
Kathleen Zielinski
Kathleen Zielinski
7 months ago
Reply to  Jane

I think that the Scriptures are sufficiently ambiguous that you can find pretty much whatever you’re looking for. And historically people have. Give me any position on any theological issue and I’ll find a Biblical passage to support it. But then again, as I acknowledged in an earlier thread, I’m not certain I still believe in God so I probably read the Scriptures with a less deferential eye than you do.

John Middleton
John Middleton
7 months ago

Scripture is not at all ambiguous that Jesus is King of Kings and Lord of Lords, or that He died for our sins, or that He is risen.

Rob
Rob
7 months ago
Reply to  John Middleton

….or that there will be any excuses. He actually made it all quite “un-ambiguous.” It just takes eyes to see and ears to hear.

Last edited 7 months ago by Rob
Eric
Eric
7 months ago

There’s a difference between selective proof texting and reasoning from the whole counsel of God.

Kathleen M. Zielinski
Kathleen M. Zielinski
7 months ago
Reply to  Eric

Eric, I think very few people deliberately and intentionally selectively proof text. I think most people honestly believe that they are reasoning from the whole counsel of God. Arminians, liberationist theologians, dispensationalists, credo-baptists, they all think that they are interpreting the Bible correctly. So maybe when you have that many people honestly coming by such divergent interpretations of the text, the text isn’t as straightforward as you’d like to think.

Rob
Rob
7 months ago

K, I’m really not sure “honestly” catches the problem with divergent views on scriptures. Our hearts are idol factories fashioning the Word into our own views in such subtle ways. Even within the orthodoxy our biases and our sinful hearts are at work. We should always “suspect” ourselves over the Word and then slowly and methodically weeding out any “apparent” inconsistencies. Right?

Last edited 7 months ago by Rob
Ken B
Ken B
7 months ago

Having had a very brief faith crisis not long ago, I can relate to your current period of doubt. In my case it was reading about the evil that Calvinists did when they managed to achieve political power, and imposed their views on the general population. How can men in whom the word of Christ supposedly dwellt richly and were filled with the Spirit of God behave like that? Is this stuff really true? How different it would be if they actually lived it out! Stopped wanting to exercise power. I can also understand how vexing it can be with… Read more »

Kathleen M. Zielinski
Kathleen M. Zielinski
7 months ago
Reply to  Ken B

Ken, thank you for your well thought out and gracious post. At this point I’m not comfortable going into depth about the issues I’m having but I do appreciate the kindness and thoughtfulness with which you responded.

Kristina
Kristina
7 months ago

So your husband thinks that God creates babies just so humans can knife ‘em up? I don’t like your husband’s god very much.

Kathleen M. Zielinski
Kathleen M. Zielinski
7 months ago
Reply to  Kristina

Well, Kristina, he probably wouldn’t like yours very much either. Which goes back to my original point.

Kristina
Kristina
7 months ago

And you completely missed mine. Which doesn’t surprise me, really.

Kathleen M. Zielinski
Kathleen M. Zielinski
7 months ago
Reply to  Kristina

No, I got it; but with as many flawed premises as your point rested on I decided not to bother.

But assume for sake of argument that “God creates babies so humans can knife them up” is an accurate description of my husband’s views (which it is not). Romans 9 tells us that God created some people for the express purpose of putting them in hell. What’s the difference?

Kristina
Kristina
7 months ago

John Calvin is a newcomer.

Jennifer Mugrage
7 months ago

Humans are not God. The fact that people die, and some go to hell, is not murder on God’s part. If we kill a baby, then yes, that is murder. This point should be obvious to anyone who is thinking clearly.

Your comment makes a facile moral equivalence between human sin and God’s sovereignty in matters of salvation, life, and death. If that is your mental picture of God – just a big, more powerful, less ethical human – then you are right, the Scriptures are totally chaotic and can be made to say whatever the reader wants them to.

Kathleen M. Zielinski
Kathleen M. Zielinski
7 months ago

True that humans are not God, but that wasn’t the point I was going for. The point is that in both examples, people are being made for the purpose of being thrown away, regardless of who is doing the tossing.

Jennifer Mugrage
7 months ago

Kathleen, I know this must seem like a change in tone from my previous, but I am concerned about you. It sounds like at the very least, your hubby subjects you to tortured logic frequently. You say in another comment that you’re not sure you believe in God anymore. It sounds as if you are turned around, confused, possibly manipulated. Certainly you’ve become convinced that it’s not possible to really know the truth or trust anybody. There can be other causes, but this kind of fog and confusion can come from living with someone who is a manipulator, and who… Read more »

Kathleen M. Zielinski
Kathleen M. Zielinski
7 months ago

My husband and I agree on some things, disagree on others, and have lively discussions on a wide range of topics. I sometimes understand where he’s coming from and sometimes don’t and he would probably say the same thing about me. But in thirty years of marriage I’ve only ever felt manipulated once, on an issue related to his mother. So I appreciate your concern but I don/t think manipulation is the issue. By the way, he used to comment here until he decided it was a waste of his time. His last comment here was to defend me when… Read more »

Jill Smith
Jill Smith
7 months ago

I don’t think it’s quite that simple. While a majority of Evangelicals (and even more Mormons) vote Republican. many other Christian denominations are more or less evenly divided. Despite their liberal reputation, mainline Protestant churches are attended by people who are fairly evenly split between the two parties–as are Catholics. If church affiliation and political orientation were a package deal, we wouldn’t see this happening. When two Catholics (I’m using Catholics because I am one) argue about politics, they share the same understanding of what God requires of them regarding care for the poor, the sick, and the disabled. Their… Read more »

Kathleen M. Zielinski
Kathleen M. Zielinski
7 months ago
Reply to  Jill Smith

Jill, point taken. Churches are not monoliths.

Who do you vote for, though, if you support a large government role in taking care of the poor and also believe that abortion is murder?

John Middleton
John Middleton
7 months ago

Now that is a good question, and one with which I sympathize.

Personally, and leaving out the cons (are there pros?) of our current options for POTUS I would put it as “Who do you vote for when you want a government not monolithically focused on relieving corporations and the very wealthy of tax burden but also believe that abortion is murder and there really are only two genders?”

However, as to what matters most: Does your husband believe that Christ is risen?

Kathleen Zielinski
Kathleen Zielinski
7 months ago
Reply to  John Middleton

Absolutely. He is a five point Calvinist who believes in the inerrancy of Scripture, and the Nicene and Apostolic Creeds. Doctrinally, he would be a really good fit here. It’s the political BS that drove him away.

John Middleton
John Middleton
7 months ago

Away from here, but not away from Christ.

Andrew Lohr
Andrew Lohr
7 months ago

What do you and he think of God’s advice to the Israelite constitutional convention in I Samuel 8? Is triune Jehovah radically libertarian? Keep tax rates below 10% and forego eminent domain and national service.

Kathleen Zielinski
Kathleen Zielinski
7 months ago
Reply to  Andrew Lohr

I can’t speak for him, but speaking for myself, conditions in 21st century America are radically different than they were in ancient Israel, so what worked then is not the same as what would work now. Unlike Israel we are a mostly urbanized society with a lot more people. And the fact that we also have a much improved standard of living stems in part from having a much larger government that does things like create infrastructure, promote American commerce, provide state universities that offer technical educations without which there would be no skilled workers, basic services like water and… Read more »

Jill Smithak
Jill Smithak
7 months ago

Some parish priests tell their parishioners that it is always a deadly sin to vote for a pro-abortion candidate. But that is not the official teaching of the Catholic church. We are not supposed to be one-issue voters. It is a sin to vote for a candidate solely on the basis that he/she supports abortion. But a Catholic is not required to vote for the anti-abortion candidate if he or she beleves there are moral reasons not to. This article explains it pretty well.
https://www.ncronline.org/opinion/guest-voices/catholics-voting-and-abortion-time-correct-record

Andrew Lohr
Andrew Lohr
7 months ago

Killing the very least of these is even worse than failing to feed people who might be able to do something for themselves, especially when we’re free to feed some ourselves or join others in voluntary feeding programs?
“Bringing in the Sheaves” by George Grant describes on church program that worked.

Kathleen Zielinski
Kathleen Zielinski
7 months ago
Reply to  Andrew Lohr

I’ve always thought that the criticism that conservatives worship fetuses but throw children under the bus was a bit harsh and not entirely fair, but it does contain a kernel of truth.

And if you really want to reduce the number of abortions, there is hard data to show that women are more likely to carry their pregnancies to term if they know they will have access to funding to raise those children once they are born.

John Middleton
John Middleton
7 months ago

I’m not categorically opposed to publicly funded aid, but why do liberals oppose access to funding if it comes from a private pro-life source? I’ve always thought pro-choice feminists don’t really care about women in need, except in the abstract, and there is more than a kernel of evidence pro-life conservatives do.

Last edited 7 months ago by John Middleton
Kathleen M. Zielinski
Kathleen M. Zielinski
7 months ago
Reply to  John Middleton

John, because they’re afraid such groups are more interested in proseletyzing than they are in providing services. I was raised Catholic. I understand, and am fine with, the concept that if a pregnant woman shows up at Catholic Charities, she’s going to get a heavy dose of religion in addition to the services she receives. I would imagine that’s probably also the case with The Salvation Army and other Protestant charities. And I’m enough of a pluralist to be OK with that; I don’t think the First Amendment mandates that religion be excluded from the public square. On the same… Read more »

John Middleton
John Middleton
7 months ago

I think you’re right, that’s part of it, and it does not speak well of liberals. It indicates they are anti-religion, even at the expense of women who would be helped. They want the woman to not get a heavy dose of religion more than they want her to be helped and are more committed to ideology than to vulnerable women. Also, pro-life services that want the end result to be a healthy baby and mother stand in rebuke of the pro-abortion program that wants the end result to be a dead fetus. When it’s privately funded, tax money is… Read more »

Kathleen Zielinski
Kathleen Zielinski
7 months ago
Reply to  John Middleton

John, I am not a religion hater. I recognize that there are lots of people — including my husband — who are better people than they would be otherwise if religion were not a part of their lives. A lot of poor are fed and clothed in the name of Jesus. Religion does a lot of good charity. All of this is true. At the same time, religion has also done a lot of harm. You need look no further than the comments in this blog to find people who are spiteful bigots in the name of Jesus. White segregationists… Read more »

John Middleton
John Middleton
7 months ago

There is no reason you should object to services AND proselytizing. Religion has done a lot of harm, though not all those things you list were all bad. However, when you see religion doing something good there is every reason you should simply commend that something, and, if so inclined, support it. Some people resent Christianity because professed Christians have harmed them. A good many others resent Christianity because the message indicts them.

Andrew Lohr
Andrew Lohr
7 months ago

N.T. Wright, preface to “Jesus and the Victory of God”: [What I think history shows us about Jesus] “is not a self-portrait. I wish it were.”

PPM
PPM
7 months ago

Forgive my ignorance of the CREC’s constitution, but…are members of non-CREC churches permitted to submit accusations of sin? If no, this man is in a pickle.

Jeff
Jeff
7 months ago

The Treasury has a bar chart of where our money is going. https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/federal-spending/

Foreign aid is somewhere south of 3% in the Other category. This doesn’t discount Doug’s string pulling thought, but objectively it isn’t a lot of money compared to the whole.

It will be Social Security and Healthcare spending which will sink us; about half of all spending. Add the Income Security category (welfare) and we are in huge trouble.

But we know that already.

Jennifer Mugrage
7 months ago

Rob, In The Holiness of God, R.C. Sproul discusses the rich young ruler from that perspective. “From the very first words out of his mouth, we see that this young man has a shallow understanding of ‘good’.”

Jennifer Mugrage
7 months ago

Oops, Mark H. beat me to it.

Rob
Rob
7 months ago

No, good reply with Christ’s answer about who is “good.” That makes perfect sense why he would reply in that way to the young ruler. Thanks!

Andrew Lohr
Andrew Lohr
7 months ago

Joe in Switzerland–you might try L’Abri in Huemoz? Founded by Francis and Edith Schaeffer.

MM–infant baptism is believers’ baptism, for if infants aren’t believers they’re not saved. Maybe they can’t profess faith, but they can believe. Faith ordinarily comes by hearing, so make sure they’ve been hearing the Gospel. As with older people baptized on profession of faith, we’ll make some mistakes, and have to deal with them when they happen. But as with adults, so with infants: when we have grounds to think they believe, we can baptize (and commune) them.

John Middleton
John Middleton
7 months ago
Reply to  Andrew Lohr

What grounds do you require before you baptize infants?

Andrew Lohr
Andrew Lohr
7 months ago
Reply to  John Middleton

Make sure they’re hearing the gospel at home and in church. Daily family devotions…

John Middleton
John Middleton
7 months ago
Reply to  Andrew Lohr

Are those the same grounds you apply to adults?

Andrew Lohr
Andrew Lohr
7 months ago
Reply to  John Middleton

Adults can generally profess faith by word and deed.
/// But we’ll still make mistakes; it’s still an assumption by the baptizers that the baptizee has faith.

John Middleton
John Middleton
7 months ago
Reply to  Andrew Lohr

You said “…as with adults, so with infants..”, however that clearly is not the case.

James
James
7 months ago

I’m late to the discussion, but one might want to consider that, while most Mesoamerican Indians (and most Haitians) are more or less Catholic and therefore at least nominally Trinitarian, they are probably much less likely to be believers than Catholics in England and the United States. One former Catholic I know said that Peruvian Catholicism has little in common with the Catholicism she was raised with, the Peruvians are much more syncretic, and are more likely to worship Mary than Jesus. (I cannot accuse American and European Catholics of truly worshipping MAry, though some could be justly suspected of… Read more »

Jill Smithak
Jill Smithak
7 months ago
Reply to  James

You might be surprised, as I was, to learn how far evangelical Christianity has been making inroads in Central America (not Mexico as much). They make up 44% of the population in El Salvdor and Ncaragua, and many have come here as immigrants. Probably every Los Angeles neightborhood as a few storefront churches with names like El Buon Pastor, and they seem to have services happening whenever I walk by. I think a syncretic approach has been with then since the begnning when the Spanish priests encouraged them to incorporate things like All Souls Day into their folk religion practices.… Read more »

Last edited 7 months ago by Jill Smith
Andrew Lohr
Andrew Lohr
7 months ago

Doug, does “don’t receive an accusation against an elder except by two or three witnesses” mean “totally blow off every such accusation?” If he said/she said, and one of them is flat out lying and only they two know which, each is accusing the other–one of misconduct, the other of equally serious false witness. Not enough evidence to convict and punish either, but maybe enough to call for more careful conduct and for space between them? /// So Q claims to know of wicked conduct by leaders in a CREC church, and that “many know them to be wicked men…know… Read more »