Letters to a Broken Girl

The situation described in the following letters is entirely fictitious, including persons, names, crimes, sins, relationships, circumstances and all particulars. The kind of situation that is described, however, is all too common and my hope is that biblical principles applied to this fictitious scenario may be of some help to individuals tangled up in real ones.

Dear Gabrielle,

Greetings. I hope you don’t mind me writing you directly in this way. When I got your email address from your Aunt Camille, I asked her and she thought it would be all right. I believe she checked with you? I don’t want to intrude, but neither do I want to remain distant if I could be any help at all.

My first purpose in writing you arises from something that I heard from Bill and Camille. They said that one of the more disturbing elements was how your father defended himself and his entire outlook to them by appealing to books and articles that I had written (not to mention the Bible). I also understand that you confirmed to Camille the fact that I was “quite a presence” in your home growing up—quoted, appealed to, and so on, ad nauseam. But given the crimes against you that he was convicted of, I wanted to have at least one chance to express my grief and horror to you directly. Please accept my assurances that anything of mine that he used to rationalize his “twisted take” needed to have been twisted first. My heart aches for you, knowing only a portion of what you must have gone through. Nancy and I have prayed for you regularly.

A second reason for writing is this. If you are willing, I would love to correspond with you, addressing any issues you might want to bring up. Camille shared some of what you told her. She says that you told her you would like to be a Christian, but that you have no idea what that is supposed to mean now, or how it could apply to the mess that was once your family. Your father is in prison for life, your mother has disappeared, and you are finishing your senior year with your aunt and uncle. Camille says that you told her that you feel like a broken glass in outer space—you don’t even have the satisfaction of having the pieces rest on a flat surface. She also said that the Christian counseling you have received to date was, according to you, “sweet but clueless.”

I would guess the issues for you range across the entire waterfront. How could God let this happen? And what does forgiveness actually mean? What doesn’t it mean? Does it mean you have to answer your father’s letters? What does it mean when God invites you in Scripture to address Him as a Father? Your mother never openly approved the abuse, but seems in retrospect to have been somehow complicit. But how was God not complicit in a similar way? Didn’t He know what was going on?We live in a hard world, which means that we have to be willing for some hard theology.

We live in a hard world, which means that we have to be willing for some hard theology. If these (or any other) questions are troubling you, I would love to try to provide some biblical answers. Are you willing for something like that?

Cordially in Christ . . .

To be continued . . .

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Doug Wright
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Doug Wright

She should be allowed to go to the college of her choice, but headcovering is clearly demeaning and horrible

adad0
Member

College, is there anything it can’t solve?

Doug Wright
Guest
Doug Wright

Solve for Xu

adad0
Member

Let me know when College solves that!

circuschaser
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circuschaser

Sir, I’m beginning to suspect that you are either a bot or a recurring stroke victim. Please accept my condolences either way.

Doug Wright
Guest
Doug Wright

Ha …oh, forget it

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

In my recent time on college campuses, I have found it is not the head that needs to be covered!

Andrew Lohr
Member

Or even a church where she covered her head and uncovered (most of) her legs.

Doug Wright
Guest
Doug Wright

….,You think,

Dan
Guest
Dan

This is why I love your blog…”didn’t He know what was going on?” Thanks for tackling the hard questions.

insanitybytes22
Member

Oh, ouch. Now that is poignant, powerful, and reveals a certain heart to Wilson that some of us on the internet do not often get to see. Sometimes I am quite grateful to have grown up in a radical atheist cult, because defiance has helped to fuel my faith. Just the same, I empathize somewhat because I certainly heard perversions of scripture used to justify both abuse and atheism. Today I spend some time still slaying those boogey-men, the caricatures of our faith, the false prophets, the wolves, the cultians. Of which Wilson is not, at least not in my… Read more »

adad0
Member

Memi, submission may be well or best expressed by the faith of the centurion, a guy Jesus was impressed with. Both he and Jesus knew that they had authority over them, and subordinates under them.
It’s always good to know and love your place, whatever it may be. People like Barbara Roberts and Rachel Miller hate the idea of earthly authority over them, though at the same time they shirk God’s Authority , where godly authority and earthly authority overlap.

insanitybytes22
Member

I hear you, A-dad. But for every Barbara Roberts and Rachel Miller, there is another appalling creature adding fuel to their fires. So what we wind up with is one form of extremism feeding of the other and those of us trying to speak the truth of gospel must now fight just to be heard among all the clamor.

adad0
Member

That’s why I typically just speak Gods Word to these types of people, with the knowledge that God’s Word always achieves the purpose for which He sent it, and it never returns to Him empty handed!
????????????????????

Oh! And His Word is like fire and a hammer of course!????

insanitybytes22
Member

Amen A-dad! And I totally believe that. Just the same, even the demons know scripture, some of them better than we do,right? And the cult leaders and assorted abusers, too. So 1 Corinthians 2:14 applies, “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him:neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” It’s the spiritual discernment that becomes so important because His word as fire and hammer is also used to separate people from God, to isolate and abuse them. And knowing the difference is not an easy task,… Read more »

adad0
Member

We agree Memi. As Jesus told us, We know people by their fruit, and by their mouth speaking what their heart is full of. Barb, Rachel and Lundy’s words speak for themselves, and they are “thistlefigs and thorngrapes”. ????
The same for the Bill Clintons and Hugh Hefners you speak of.

Clay Crouch
Guest
Clay Crouch

Takeaway: folks I don’t agree with are thistlefigs and thorngrapes. Sweet!

adad0
Member

Bill, is that you?????

JP Stewart
Member
JP Stewart

It must be the one week each month his wife lets him prowl online without supervision. One drive-by comment and non sequitur after another…

Clay Crouch
Guest
Clay Crouch

Busted!

Clay Crouch
Guest
Clay Crouch

Yeah, but don’t tell Hillary.

insanitybytes22
Member

LOL, you don’t know how good you have it! I’d be rather delighted to be called a thistlefig or a thorngrape. At the moment I’m the usual “lying heretic.” So boring, so repetitive. I wish people would at least put some effort into it. :)

JP Stewart
Member
JP Stewart

You could easily remedy that by not accusing others of things that are completely
unsubstantiated. In other words, you could stop lying. But I guess it’s easier and more
cathartic to play the victim card.

insanitybytes22
Member

And right on schedule, the thistlefigs and thorngrapes arrive. Here’s the deal. When you target Christian women and insist on calling us liars, you render our testimony to the Lord mute, you lead people to refuse to hear us, and you hinder our work to advance the kingdom. You silence us or attempt to anyway. Surely the little bliss hit you get from attacking me is not worth the harm you do? I’ll remind you, I’ve been a Christian for half a century, married for 31 years, I love scripture,and I actually agree with Wilson, at least 75% of the… Read more »

JP Stewart
Member
JP Stewart

What I said isn’t based on your rather lofty view of yourself. Based on the veracity of your posts here, I have no idea if your self-description is true. Jesus tells us “you will know them by their fruits.” When said fruits are false accusations–with zero effort to back them up (“I don’t play linky games”), there’s a problem. Not once have you ever admitted you were wrong or repented. You just continue to dig a deeper hole for yourself. And I haven’t “targeted” anyone unless they’ve repeatedly disobeyed the 9th Commandment. There are plenty of other Christian women here… Read more »

Clay Crouch
Guest
Clay Crouch

I’m sure ME remembers how you “targeted” took me to task many months ago over the complimentarian/egalitarian issue. You still take silly passive-aggressive jabs at me and my bride. And it really, really hurts.???? Does that have anything to do with the 9th commandment?

How’s that for a drive-by?

JP Stewart
Member
JP Stewart

You calling someone passive-aggressive is beyond projecting. Have a fun week!

Clay Crouch
Guest
Clay Crouch

I’m guessing you’re in charge of the greeters at your church.

adad0
Member

Clay, if you google “transition to a new world: a new spiritual community”, you will find Barbs “idol” Lundy, announcing his new cult to the world. Lundy’s cult is in fact “thorns and thistles” not grapes and figs.
Do you agree with Lundy’s cult?

Clay Crouch
Guest
Clay Crouch

Don’t you mean Lundy Bancroft? He sure is into some whacky stuff. No doubt about it. It certainly doesn’t appear to be anything remotely Christian. Does he claim otherwise? There have been a few regular commenters (including a banned one) that would agree with his core belief #25. I’ve know a cult leader or two. He may or not be an actual cult leader. That would depend upon if and how he exercises control over his “flock?”. I’m way more concerned with the cult leaders that scurry in the small, dark recesses of the Christian church. ???? I was confused… Read more »

adad0
Member

Rachel and Barb have a mutual admiration society going on. At a minimum, association with Lundy is a proof of the truth of The Word that “bad company corrupts good morals”.
In any case, warning people about charlatans is not really about my personal taste. Thanks for giving some facts due consideration!????

insanitybytes22
Member

Lundy is kind of an insidious creature who’s books, literature, and words have creeped into several Christian circles. Quite a few Christians seem to admire him. I just see major red flags all over the place. He’s whispering sweet nothings into women’s ears, in a form that sometimes makes me think of the words, Honey that man is no good for you. I would be good for you. Come out in the desert with me and let us explore the sensual nature of this God you worship….

adad0
Member

“You will certainly not die” said the snake to the woman, for God knows when you eat of it, your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

PerfectHold
Guest
PerfectHold

Unrealistic —
How could a pastor afford the time this type of interaction would eat up?!
What with at least 50% of the week preparing for sermons.

A few such cases x an hour/week would mean all he’d be doing is pastoring.
Oh. Wait.

John F. Kennedy
Guest
John F. Kennedy

Exactly. The last thing pastors have time for is pastoring; even if they are qualified for doing that, which, of course, is highly unlikely.

Rob Steele
Guest
Rob Steele

Ask hard questions, get hard answers. Beware soft answers.

adad0
Member

“Better is open rebuke than hidden love. The wounds of a friend can be trusted, but an enemy multiplies kisses.”

Prob. 27:6 ????????????????????

Bike bubba
Guest

I was made aware of a case like this just yesterday–mother allowed her boyfriend’s son to molest her own daughter and stood in the way of prosecution, and the family is concerned that that has been “normalized” in her mind so she thinks that’s the way she wants to live. there are probably cases around all of us where we can do something like this–we are not strictly speaking at fault, but we can be part of the solution.

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

According to crime statistics, the single biggest threat to the safety and welfare of a young girl is her mother’s boyfriend or new husband. Sometimes the daughter is the predatory prize, and the mother is not chosen for herself but because she offers access to the child. I believe there are mothers who genuinely do not know what their daughters are suffering, but it is hard for me to understand. Sexual abuse produces changes in a child’s moods, behavior, sleep, and everything else. Mothers get pretty good at reading minds even about trivia in their children’s lives. How could they… Read more »

JohnM
Guest
JohnM

If you are talking about women who do one-night-stands you pretty much have your explanation.

Now, is really as likely to be Mama’s new husband as it is her new boyfriend? I don’t know the statistics, but I wonder if the kind of man who would marry the woman poses the same risk as the kind of man who would not.

Jsm
Guest
Jsm

I have read more cases of married men molesting their step daughters than live in boyfriends. I imagine the stastics are probably equal.

JohnM
Guest
JohnM

I haven’t. Even if you have, realize that other things besides truly equal rates of occurrence could account for what you have read, like unequal rates of reporting to authorities, unequal attention paid by authorities, or by unequal attention from the media. Again, I don’t claim to know what the numbers really are.

Jane
Member

This is just speculation, but I could easily imagine when it’s the boyfriend, the boyfriend just gets kicked out and that’s an end of it and mom wants it all to go away so it’s hushed up. When it’s a husband, if it’s to be stopped, it has to come to light. The mother is probably the linchpin in all these cases — if she’s willing to risk/end the relationship to protect her child and get the child the help she needs, or not.

Conserbatives_conserve_little
Guest
Conserbatives_conserve_little

If it is the husband, he probably has been grooming the wife for years

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

I’m not sure. I can see that a really predatory man might marry the mother in order to settle in for the long haul. In my student’s case, the man worked his way through the daughters, getting interested when they were around eight and stopping when they were around 14. A really skilled predator might want a long grooming process because it makes disclosure from the girl much less likely. I don’t think anyone is suggesting that there is more than a small minority of stepfathers who are sexual predators. But unless I married someone I had known my whole… Read more »

JohnM
Guest
JohnM

I’d say a woman who feels the need to be as vigilant toward a prospective husband as she would be toward a relative stranger had better forget about marrying in the first place. Obviously she should know the man, and it shouldn’t take a lifetime. If she needs to worry about him, he’s the wrong man. If she doesn’t, but does anyway, she’s the wrong woman. I know I wouldn’t put up with being an object of suspicion in my own home. If I married a woman with minor children I would expect to be a father to the children… Read more »

insanitybytes22
Member

That sounds absolutely dreadful, to be an object of suspicion in your own home. What happens far more however,is that women cover up abuse, dismiss it, enable it,refuse to see it. Some of them know about it outright, but their loyalties to the guy trump their loyalties to the kids.

Bdgrrll
Guest
Bdgrrll

What kind of “loyalty”? Fear of her own abuse by the guy, whether husband or boyfriend? Fear of financial insecurity? Fear she won’t be believed if they live in a small town and he is a pillar of the community? Fear of being without a man? Some or all of these fears may be untrue, but they may mean that loyalty is not what it might not seem.

insanitybytes22
Member

Yes, all of those things. And perhaps a fear of losing him emotionally. My point simply being, women fail to protect their kids all the time and sometimes actually enable the abuse to continue.

So emotionally it’s really hard to be angry at the parent who is failing to protect you because they are also the only one you have to depend on.

Jsm
Guest
Jsm

From my reading many sexual predators are family members or close family friends. They typically get a pass on strange behavior and have the greatest opportunity for grooming potential victims. Short term live in boyfriends are probably less able to get opportunities. Long term live in boyfriends are probably the highest percentage of offenders followed by stepfathers and finally short term live ins. Though with the high occurrence of these kind of crimes committed by SFs it would not surprise me if they had the highest percentage. Unfortunately it appears a woman can do her due diligence and still get… Read more »

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

I read on a national crime site that, based on verified accusations and convictions, girls living with a stepfather are seven times likelier to be sexually abused than girls living with a biological father or with a single mother who doesn’t bring men into the home. Cases that don’t result in a conviction make the figure much, much higher. I don’t see how any woman can screen for this, other than by ruling out a criminal history. Studies of perpetrators don’t show differences, in terms of social class, age, occupation, and religious affiliation, between them and “normal” men. You are… Read more »

Conserbatives_conserve_little
Guest
Conserbatives_conserve_little

Lie detector tests

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

I can understand that, and it is horrible that any honorable, sexually upright man should be viewed with suspicion. But, as a separated wife raising a teenaged girl, I worried about how I would possibly know the difference between the decent man who wants to help me raise my child and the sexual predator who wants access to my child. The problem is that, according to studies and case histories, there is no warning signal, pre-marriage, because predators excel at displaying decency and winning trust. There are circumstances that would either increase or allay my anxiety. A man I met… Read more »

JohnM
Guest
JohnM

In what universe indeed? I have no idea, and I’ve never heard of Tim Bayley before. This points to two problems. One is that the Tim Bayley’s of the world (apparently) go around giving women the impression that men need to be told these things. In case you really are wondering, men don’t need to be told not to do things that never enter their minds. The other problem is that there are probably are a few men who need to be told these things. We generally call them perverts where I come from. However, I suppose never assume perversion,… Read more »

Jane
Member

Don’t assume too much. Many parents shower with their kids at young ages and see no problem with it. They don’t intend it sexually, but I think Tim Bayly (no e) is warning against thinking those things can be done safely, in a presumptuous sort of way. Most fathers will never have such a temptation, but a person never knows with absolute certainty what may be a temptation. Most of us have things that we’re simply not tempted to do, but none of us should ever assume we’re “above” certain temptations. Placing oneself in the way of temptation unnecessarily because… Read more »

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

I think, too, that it unnecessarily complicates the teaching of modesty and appropriateness. I didn’t want to pass on an excessive concern with modesty to my daughter, but it seems to me that if kids learn the basics early on, you don’t have to make a huge issue of it later. “Dear, we don’t run around the house in our underwear” is a lot less emotionally fraught than “Now that you are becoming a young woman, you must learn maidenly modesty.” It’s like the rule about no-unrelated-boys-in-bedrooms; it’s easier to enforce it from the beginning than wait to introduce it.

JohnM
Guest
JohnM

It’s like that.

Kilgore T. Durden
Guest
Kilgore T. Durden

I had this issue with my wife and daughters. She was so worried over abuse by strangers that she began trying to tell our daughters not to dress immodestly, because men are sometimes unpredictable. It was basically enforcing modesty through fear. I put a stop to that nonsense quickly. I wanted my daughters to be shrewd about predators, but I also didn’t want them dressing like nuns to avoid being attacked. I didn’t want them to connect modesty to protection, since it doesn’t provide it, first off, but also because I wanted them to connect modesty to godliness. My wife… Read more »

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

I think you were wise. I am sure there are some kinds of sick predators for whom a young woman dressed as a nun is an attraction. Learning to protect yourself from evil strangers is a different set of skills. I worried a lot about that when my daughter was a teenager, especially when she started going places on her own. You don’t want to make them think every person they meet poses a deadly peril, yet you want them to be cautious. Going to LA schools, my daughter was introduced to lockdown drills and actual lockdowns, drive-by shooting drills… Read more »

Jane
Member

Yes, very well put.

JohnM
Guest
JohnM

They should see a problem with it even if they don’t intend it sexually, which I’m sure 99% don’t. They should not be letting children see things children will wonder about before they need to know. This goes for mothers as well as fathers. They should also be teaching their children modesty and to not be casual about who gets to see every bit of them. Temptation on the part of fathers has nothing to do with it, because apart from the very rare utterly depraved male there simply is no temptation to resist. Not when you’re talking about pre-pubescent… Read more »

Jane
Member

Of course they should see a problem with it. They should never sin at all.

But people are weak, people are foolish, people are not perfect. Sin happens because people are sinners.

Utterly depraved men are not rare, all people are depraved. Most aren’t attracted to pre-pubescent children, but it’s just unwise to take the “I could never sin in that way” attitude toward anything, no matter how (rightly) you are appalled by certain sins.

JohnM
Guest
JohnM

What we’re talking about that shouldn’t happen is adults showering with children. How hard is it to not do that if you know better? If you’re saying some people nowadays don’t know any better without being told, probably so, but what a sad commentary on some people’s culture and upbringing. Everyone sins, the same as everyone else, which is not saying as everyone sins the same as everyone else. All people are depraved in the theological sense. Men who are so depraved, in the more commonly used sense,as to lust after their offspring, or any pre-pubescent children, are rare. All… Read more »

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

I think I agree with you on all counts. The media have made mothers, in particular, be on high alert for sexual predators, with the result that we probably exaggerate risk. As you note, this can lead to a very warped view. The nuns who taught me that every man turns into a ravening wolf once his primal instincts are aroused have been replaced by people who warn us that every man might be a pedophile. I see your point about the difference between temptation and sick, degenerate urges. I don’t favor adults showering with children, but if the reason… Read more »

JohnM
Guest
JohnM

And people want to know why I don’t just trust the “experts”.

Conserbatives_conserve_little
Guest
Conserbatives_conserve_little

my friends grandmother changed her shirt in front of me when I was around six. She had a bra on, but I still remember it. It isn’t just about an adults temptation. Little kids remember these things. They are old enough to remember at three. Ladies, do you want your son or grandson to remember what you look like?

Jsm
Guest
Jsm

You probably should read Tim Bayly’s book ” Daddy Tried”. He is a pastor in a college town. He claims there are many cases he has had to deal with of young ladies and young men who are finally out from under the control of sexually abusive men. These sins are happening in every kind of home. Once you deal regularly with that kind of depravity you start to see the need to say things that the rest of us find self evident

Conserbatives_conserve_little
Guest
Conserbatives_conserve_little

The Bayly article actuall was a general warning against nudity and it leading to incest. He warned women about the danger of women using porn, complete with a link to a speech from a woman who had been a straight A student, a virgin and a porn addict. Such women exist.

Jane
Member

Realistically, this isn’t a present concern for you. A man who wants access to your daughter now need only seduce her — she’s effectively an adult, if I remember correctly. But if you’re projecting your thoughts backward in time, I see your point.

Conserbatives_conserve_little
Guest
Conserbatives_conserve_little

Use a lie detector before marrying. I’d take the test. Without an argument

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

I am trying to decide what I would think if a man who wanted to marry me asked me to take a lie detector test. It would certainly make me think he had trust issues!

I have been reading a book by an FBI profiler who says that while good people can fail polygraphs, sociopathic people can pass them even while lying through their teeth. I there there are no guarantees about people.

Conserbatives_conserve_little
Guest
Conserbatives_conserve_little

Sociopaths are very rare and even for them,there are behavioral patterns they can’t escape from. I have to admit, I have watched a lot of Maury Povitch these lie detectors are very effective.

Conserbatives_conserve_little
Guest
Conserbatives_conserve_little

Thing is, there are signs. There is a blog is you should read. Finding A Healing Place by Clara Hinton. She was married to a pedophile for forty years, had 11 kids with him. She was separated when a woman from her church came and told her what her husband had done. Her husband was a minister. She went to her son Jimmy, also a minister, IN THE SAME CHURCH. The woman told him. Here he’s got thIs broken, sobbing woman in his office accusing his father, his hero, of child molestation. Jimmy Hinton looks at this woman and says,… Read more »

Conserbatives_conserve_little
Guest
Conserbatives_conserve_little

There is a simple way to find out. Before marrying, have the man take a lie detector test Ask if his intent is a sexual relationship with the girl.

Jsm
Guest
Jsm

That’s not a bad idea. I know of one case that happened in our church where a widow with two young daughters married a man who came from a Christian home. Ended up after many years of marriage and the girls were in th mid to. Late teens he started molesting them. Certainly this man had no intention of molesting these girls when he married their mother. He would have passed a lie detector. There is no way a woman can guarantee her suitor will not hurt her children.

Jane
Member

It’s not just the one-night stands. It’s the revolving apartment door, where the “night” is extended to a year or a few at a time. Not as obviously lacking in discretion as a one-night stand, but still a situation where letting a man into your own and your children’s lives is treated with less care than if you knew you were “stuck” with him as long as you lived and the kids were were stuck with him as long as they were under your roof.

Conserbatives_conserve_little
Guest
Conserbatives_conserve_little

Absolutely yes. The more than ntellegent predator will marry as part of the grooming process

Bike bubba
Guest

Still within statutes of limitations. I might discreetly talk to someone and mention that I know a lawyer that would be willing to coach the victim and her family through the prosecution process. Thanks for your comment.

Conserbatives_conserve_little
Guest
Conserbatives_conserve_little

I think there is something more primal in the denial of abuse than just wanting a man. What woman wants to admit to herself that she could be fooled that badly? They loved this man. They trusted this man. The believed this man. He can’t be a monster. He can’t be! No no, Something else is true. Something…some Women never get past this poinT.

Clay Crouch
Guest
Clay Crouch

Is this what passes as a confession in Wilson’s world? Just when I think he can’t stoop any lower. Shame on you.

valerieab
Member

What the…??? What here would make you think that?

Reading comprehension. Why don’t they teach reading comprehension in these schools?

FeatherBlade
Guest
FeatherBlade

When one is out to beat someone else, any stick is good enough, I suppose.

Even if you have to make it up. 9_9

Susan Gail
Member
Susan Gail

I see what you did there

adad0
Member

Prof. Kirk indeed!

Clay Crouch
Guest
Clay Crouch

Put on your thinking cap. Your irony meter needs recalibration. It’s not too late.

David Koenig
Guest
David Koenig

You sound like someone halfway through telling me 9/11 was an inside job. “Think about it!” (which, when translated, means “suspend all thought!”)

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

While I’m quite willing to disagree with Wilson’s theology, he hasn’t really produced any yet in response to this scenario. If he tells the girl she enticed her perverted dad by being a sexy ten-year-old, or that she has to honor him by keeping his prison canteen account flush with cash, I will be happy to join you in crying shame. But so would everyone else, and I don’t think that is what he plans to say. (I am assuming it must be prolonged sexual abuse because nothing else would have put him away for life. I taught a child… Read more »

Clay Crouch
Guest
Clay Crouch

I’m sorry, but given Mr. Wilson’s history in regard to this subject, he should keep his pen in his pocket.

insanitybytes22
Member

It’s a valid point, Clay. Given the history, would you trust Wilson with a victim who has theological questions? I’m not so sure. The jury is still out. And yet, would you trust ANY of the commenters here, either? That would be a “oh, hell no” to the second question. But that is the very heart and essence of abuse, the ones you trusted blew it, and they used the very same scripture the very same words, that could now heal you. Our pastor often speaks of unlearning Christianity, of the need to throw out what you think you know… Read more »

Dave
Guest
Dave

Clay’s piint is invalid. Those of us who know Wilson do not have any qualms about his qualifications, actions or intentions. Those like Clay create doubt in those such as yourself by telling partial truths or by quibbling which is in fact a lie. He prays on those who do not have a more complete view of the actions in Moscow.

Clay keeps trying to start fires but he can’t because like the thief’s accomplice in Proverbs, he can’t testify truthfully because he would be found out.

insanitybytes22
Member

I do apologize if it appears that I am agreeing with the words that suggest Wilson should “keep his pen in is his pocket.” No, not at all.

Rather, I agree with the sentiment behind Clay’s words, the doubt and distrust, the history that makes people hesitant. And yet can we really lay any of that at Wilson’s feet? Isn’t it the very nature of abuse to cause you to distrust even those who have good intentions?

So really, as inartful as my words were, I was attempting to point fingers at the abuse itself, and not at Wilson.

Clay Crouch
Guest
Clay Crouch

I don’t understand why you owe Dave an apology. With regard to Wight and Sitler, at whose feet should we lay the doubt and distrust? The victims? The justice system? No one that I’m aware of is blaming Mr. Wilson for the actual abuse. Rather, it is his handling of the matters after they came to light that leaves many of us in the state of incredulity. Do you really agree with the wisdom of joining in holy matrimony a young woman to a pedophile on probation for life? I’m sure that you wouldn’t agree with pugnacious way Natalie Greenfield… Read more »

insanitybytes22
Member

I apologized because when I read the words I wrote it sounds like I am agreeing with your pen in pocket comment. “With regard to Wight and Sitler, at whose feet should we lay the doubt and distrust?” At Christ’s feet because He heals. No one else can restore the trust that was stolen, but Him. No one else can hand you beauty for those ashes. “Rather, it is his handling of the matters after they came to light that leaves many of us in the state of incredulity.” He reported it to the authorities and there was a trial… Read more »

Dave
Guest
Dave

For the casual reader, Natalie is not telling the truth. We know that because we watched the show and what she is saying is not correct. We also know the actions taken by the church a decade a go and there was no wrong doing. Clay tries to cause controversy where there was no wrong doing by Wilson or the church. He needs to stop his crusade of tilting at windmills. Clay does not understand that two court appointed psychiatrists wrote to the court that Sitler should be married and that out of all the patients they had seen he… Read more »

Clay Crouch
Guest
Clay Crouch

Just because you don’t have any qualms about Mr. Wilson’s qualifications, actions, or intentions doesn’t invalidate my qualms or those of a myriad of Christians who have serious concerns about Mr. Wilson’s handling of sexual abuse in his congregation. As a matter of fact a neighbor of Mr. Wilson’s has dedicated a good bit of work toward exposing the Kirk pastor’s record.

So yes, when it comes to matters concerning plagiarism and sexual abuse, I’ll say it again, “Mr. Wilson should keep his pen in his pocket.”

insanitybytes22
Member

I’m curious Clay, do you know how many sex offenders are in your own neighborhood? Attending your church?
Teaching at your school?

It can be an eye opening experience, a bit of unpleasant awareness, but it tends to bring about a different perspective.

I’ve read that link before. It’s a hit piece on Wilson.

Dave
Guest
Dave

Clay, you are a.troll who does not accept the facts as they occurred.

The sexual abuse problems were.dealt with according to scripture and Idaho laws.

Both plagiarism incidents were in coauthored books where the other author improperly or did not annotate references from others. It was not Wilson’s portion; yet Wilson apologizeed.for the problems and instituted better reference checking procedures. Additionally there was no intent to plagiarize by the coauthor.

Clay, you really need to just post “I hate Wilson” instead.of your half truths and false facts.

JP Stewart
Member
JP Stewart

What’s next? An Onion article?

adad0
Member

Matthew 27:10-12
11 Meanwhile Jesus stood before the governor, and the governor asked him, “Are you the king of the Jews?”
“You have said so,” Jesus replied.
12 When he was accused by the chief priests and the elders, he gave no answer.

You know Croucho, when Jesus, God Himself, showed up in the flesh, some how, some people got the idea that He was shameful and low also.

With that in mind,you might want to be a bit more careful in how you “crouch” your statements! ; – )

Clay Crouch
Guest
Clay Crouch

Yes, I see your point. Mr. Wilson is just like Jesus. How did I miss that? Thanks for the Sunday School lesson.

What’s next? Perhaps we’ll be treated, at the behest of a plagiarized author’s agent, to a consoling missive from the good pastor. ????❤️????

adad0
Member

Jesus was just like Jesus as well Clay.
What with it being Sunday School and all, let’s just move on to the craft project! When I am not looking, you might get a chance to eat some paste!????????????

JP Stewart
Member
JP Stewart

It appears he’s been sniffing the glue.

Clay Crouch
Guest
Clay Crouch
Dave
Guest
Dave

Clay you are the one covered in shame. Shame on you for trying to start fires using mud for fuel. It doesn’t work.

You post as broken pottery griping that the Potter threw you away.

Clay Crouch
Guest
Clay Crouch

Dude, get the rocks out of your mouth! I have no idea what you’re talking about

Clay Crouch
Guest
Clay Crouch

I’m sure you’ll get a big gold star from the Potter Mr. Wilson this Sunday.

Dave
Guest
Dave

No stars Clay. You are broken pottery complaining that you are not used properly. You keep trying to stir up controversy instead of understanding what really happened. You have no point except to pour your hatred of Wilson out upon the unsuspecting readers.

Andrew Lohr
Member

Uh, I’m OK with courts, and church courts in particular, using information however gotten, but gossip is sin, and “Camille said…” featured in the letter (“I heard from the household of Chloe..”); do gossip and talebearing need to be touched on at some point?

Andrew Kelly
Guest
Andrew Kelly

Camille talking to her pastor about legitimate concerns, in order to get council on how to deal with them, is not gossip.

adad0
Member

Sounds like Aunt Camille is the custodial Aunt right now, aka, mother.

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

Respecting confidentiality and avoiding gossip are essential, but I think we shouldn’t go all out on a hypothetical. He assumes the aunt asked the poor girl for permission to have her email. If dad got a life sentence, the facts were probably generally known far and wide. I am assuming that the custodial aunt has a pastoral relationship, and has confided her worries about her niece. I would probably not have quoted the aunt to the niece, but this is fiction after all!

Jennie
Member

I don’t think it is gossip. Rather, we are required out of love to report when someone in the body is in danger of falling away from Christ. 1Corinthians 5:1 1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife. Paul also knew about these two women, no doubt because it was reported to him. Philippians 4:2-3 2 I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord. 3 And I intreat thee… Read more »

FX Turk
Member

I think I would love to see a 12-part reality show on AMC which features Doug Wilson weekly confronting men who have taken his books and other writings to places nobody in their right mind ought to have taken them, and have Doug walk off the thesis which stands opposed to the antithesis of the armies of idiots who read books the way dogs sniff at each other.

That would be something.

Clay Crouch
Guest
Clay Crouch

Attaboy! Did you give up giving up the blogosphere for Lent? Talk about sniffing dogs. Pot, meet kettle.

FX Turk
Member
insanitybytes22
Member

That’s a great post. I was blessed by it. I have some similar questions,so it’s always encouraging when someone else puts them to words. The internet is not the “local church.” People’s comments are not always going to be edifying. What we see on the internet is not the body of Christ as a whole, and it can distort our perceptions. So when Wilson acknowledged that his words can be twisted, distorted, I really appreciated that. My question is always, how can we spread the good news without contributing to those distortions and perversions of scripture? Without confirming people’s negative… Read more »

FeatherBlade
Guest
FeatherBlade

how can we spread the good news without contributing to those distortions and perversions of scripture? Without confirming people’s negative biases about Christians?

The first thing to realize is that if people are determined to believe bad things about Christianity and Christians, they will do so regardless of any evidence to the contrary.

Other than that… Love God, know Scripture, be ready give an answer for the hope you have in Christ with gentleness and respect.

insanitybytes22
Member

LOL! That’s fabulous. I’d enjoy watching that, too.

Karen
Guest
Karen

All I needed to see to judge this was Wilson’s self-justifying “if he used my writings to justify himself he had to twist them first.” That is not repentance, that is “Not me, God! I didn’t do that”.

Please, Wilson, just shut up entirely about women. You are incapable of saying anything useful and you are far too much in love with the sound of your own voice.

insanitybytes22
Member

“if he used my writings to justify himself he had to twist them first.”

Well,I guess I empathize with Pastor Wilson somewhat. I’ve seen our beautiful words of scripture twisted and perverted to justify abuse before, but I certainly don’t blame the Lord for writing them.

fp
Guest
fp

Karen, is your moral compass in the same location as Cate Blanchett’s?

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

You’re not presenting an argument, merely vituperation.

Red_Tin_Roof
Guest
Red_Tin_Roof

There seems to be something dangerous afoot. So the broken girl confides in the pastor. How long will it be until they meet in person? Oh, I know, I know. This pastor could never take advantage of a poor broken girl. Oh, no. That could never happen. Not a problem. Well. Consider asking Jim Casy about that.

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

Without any reflection on Pastor Wilson, I think any meetings between abused young girls and male pastors should have a kindly, trained female counselor in the room.

Jane
Member

If the girl in question is real, I would say her mother would be sufficient, if her mother is not part of the problem. Otherwise, yes. If she’s not real, I don’t think we need to worry about Wilson here. ;-)

Red_Tin_Roof
Guest
Red_Tin_Roof

Indeed they should.

Jane
Member

Ah, that’s about right — using a fictional situation as a warning against a fictional situation. :-)

Red_Tin_Roof
Guest
Red_Tin_Roof

Indulging in one’s fictional fantasy is not always right…

Jane
Member

True, but I fail to see the relevance.

Red_Tin_Roof
Guest
Red_Tin_Roof

Suppose the fictional situation involved a senior pastor referring the abused girl to the youth pastor. Perhaps one would react to that as being improprietous, but since it would just be a fictional situation…

Jane
Member

Is Jim Casy (never heard of him) a fictional character, too?

Red_Tin_Roof
Guest
Red_Tin_Roof

The Grapes of Wrath.