As the same-sex mirage juggernaut continues to roll through our pathetic little festival, crushing both devotees and opponents alike, a number of conservative Christians have begun to prepare themselves for life in a post-Christian America. Not only so, but they have been encouraging others to do the same. But this is radically unhelpful and unbecoming — nobody much likes seeing the team manager giving up in the fourth inning, and especially when the score is just 10 to 8. And particularly when we are the ones who have 10.
The reason all this is happening is that we are so distracted by the effrontery of the last lie that we are not able to see the current lie being told. We were being told — oh, about ten minutes ago — that there was no reason why individual states could not keep their restrictions on same-sex mirage, and that it was not necessary to have one monolithic approach to marriage within the republic. Anybody remember all that? Ah, good times. And then federal judges started striking down the laws of multiple states as unconstitutional, and you know the rest of the drill.
But that was the last lie. And as exasperating as it is, perhaps making you want to dance in place a little bit, we really need to focus on what lies we are being told now. Our problem then was that we believed them then. Our problem now is that we are believing them now. The current lie is that all of this is inevitable, inexorable, remorseless, relentless, and hell bent. And except for that last one, none of it is even remotely true.
This is a lie that under-girds all progressive thought, all the time, but it has now come to the forefront again, and some out-maneuvered Christians are helping to propagate it. Progressives are the ones that progressives have been waiting for, but really, nobody else has been. Whenever their jitney messiah arrives — and they find a new one every generation or so — I really see no reason for bowing down.
Chesterton once said that the one taste of paradise on earth was to fight in a losing cause . . . and not to lose it.
So let me give three quick reasons, in ascending order of importance, why this myth of inevitability needs to be rejected, along with the horse it rode in on.
First, they really want me to believe it, and so I refuse to. Should I as the batter swing simply because I hear voices emanating from their dugout, telling me that I need to? Try explaining that to your coach. “But they said I had to . . . they seemed so urgent . . .”
Second, sodomy is fruitless, along with all the pale heterosexual imitations of sodomy. Denial of fruitfulness will result — follow me closely here — in lack of fruit. Sodomy can crash a civilization into a wall, but sodomy and its cousins can never build or maintain a civilization. In the long run, in other words, stupidity never works. You run out of money, you run out of children, you run out of ideas, and you run out of gas. You run out.
And third, the Lord Jesus is at the right hand of the Father. All of this is His doing, not theirs. He has brought our nation to this point in time for His good and perfect purposes. They think they are in control, and a number of us even think so. But if American history were that little joggity car outside the supermarkets that they used to have, where you put quarters in it so that your two-year-old could bounce for five minutes, grinning maniacally, turning the steering wheel back and forth, then all our circuit courts are that two-year-old.
The Lord Jesus rules all of history. This means that our folly is His righteous judgment on us, and not our successful revolt against Him. And His righteous judgment of us is being exercised so that His name would be glorified in the earth. Given the circumstances, His name will be glorified in one of two ways. Either our culture will go out in a flash fire of stupidity, and He will be glorified in that event, or we will go down to our knees in repentance, calling on Him by name, and He will be glorified in our cleansing and forgiveness. And just between us, the latter is what I believe is going to happen.
And when God grants reformation and revival, I have no doubt that more than one federal judge will declare it to be unconstitutional. But we won’t get the word because of all the singing.
This is precisely why they must use coercive government to keep their ideas alive. We teach our children, they kill theirs be before their born We promote marriage, they intentionally destroy it. We teach self-reliance, they teach dependence. None of these positions offer the next generation for their views. So they co-opt our schools and our organizations to create their next generation. If we simply refuse to give our kids to them, we will succeed. It’s that simple. Keep up the good work, Doug.
*before they’re born
*embarrassed*
Really encouraging. Thank you.
Some wag once said about the stock market: “The market will rally from this, or lower, levels. It’s clever and I take it as a sardonic statement of the inability to be certan about any specifics of the future and even the hope of a recovery is called into question. Being a post-millenialist (for which I thank God, and secondarily Doug and the CREC), I like to amend that to “The church will rally from this, or lower levels.” I may be short on the short-term specifics but I do know the long term outlook. Thank you, Doug, for the… Read more »
Good stuff.
Magnificent.
“when God grants reformation and revival”
The Amil legacy branch of postmillenialism hopes & prays & works for & expects this too.
Just not as the cumbaya nightcap for the civilization on the old earth.
Thank you. I’ve honestly felt that inevitability lately, even if I hoped against it. This was a good call back. Just what I needed to hear.
Well I have some questions. First, who told you “…there was no reason why individual states could not keep their restrictions on same-sex [marriage], and that it was not necessary to have one monolithic approach to marriage within the republic.” Because it sure wasn’t any “progressives” I ever heard of. That’s a libertarian line.
Second, do you really think progressives are dying out because of too much sodomy? I’m skeptical, since the data don’t seem to show any waning of liberalism in the population.
Third, why is Jesus judging you and how have you changed your actions in response?
Matt, To your first point: Is President Obama a good enough progressive example? JUNE 2011: “I think it’s important for us to work through these issues because each community is going to be different, each state is going to be different,” Obama said when asked during a White House news conference about New York becoming the latest state to legalize same-sex marriage. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/05/timeline-of-obamas-evolving-on-same-sex-marriage/ Second, I’d love to see this data which tells us that progressives are reproducing at an above-average rate vs. the rest of the American population. Third, Doug is obviously speaking about us as a nation and a… Read more »
Matt — superb questions, well stated.
As for me — He’s judging me personally because …
I’ve been too unloving by not witnessing to what He says to them.
For those Elijah’s who have done all they could from the git-g0,
He’s judging them & me too because these are are our family — and I’m a part of them — and we’ve been behaving something awful as a family.
What I’ve changed?
More shamefaced sorries sent His way — and more gentle (okay, and not so gentle) reminders to active participant neighbors and reproaches to the general milieu.
Obama’s words there are a pretty thin peg on which to hang your hat, having nothing particularly to do with any legal action and being a generic call to peacefulness, the kind which Obama is famous for. In any case, have they been the cornerstone of the progressive zeitgeist? I have literally never heard this used as a common talking point, except among libertarians. Progressives have said that no one will ever be forced to perform a marriage ceremony against their will or judgment, but so far haven’t reneged on that one. Second, I didn’t say “…progressives are reproducing at… Read more »
What foul wind from hell blew this moral equivalence here? Shame on you.
I shudder to think of the clue-bat God will have to deliver to bring ‘our’ leaders to repentance without destroying them completely.
Matt, The reason cultural liberalism is not shrinking was my initial point. They have to indoctrinate kids in school (or put me in jail for not sending them), regulate our organizations in a way that must conform to their liking (hospitals, private businesses, and Christian schools), and confiscate our money to pay for our own demise. Secularism and its ideas about sex, family, marriage, freedom, etc. can only perpetuate itself through coercion. The very heart of Christian faith requires a free choice to love God, the exact opposite of coercive liberalism. All we have to do is refuse to willingly… Read more »
Can we try a few action choices and see if it holds up?
” Progressives have said that no one will ever be forced to “bake a cake” against their will or judgment, but so far haven’t reneged on that one.”
” Progressives have said that no one will ever be forced “rent out their wedding facility” against their will or judgment, but so far haven’t reneged on that one.
” Progressives have said that no one will ever be forced “to photograph” a marriage ceremony against their will or judgment, but so far haven’t reneged on that one.”
BJ,
“The liberal system will implode on itself eventually.”
I think that is correct. Unfortunately, due to its parasitic existence, it often destroys the host organism prior to that implosion, and then moves on looking for additional polezniye duraki.
Did this just say “Whenever their jitney messiah arrives — and they find a new one every generation or so — I really see no reason for bowing down.”? So, he’s calling the civil rights movement and the abolition movement “jitney messiahs”, and further that he sees no reason for “bowing down” to these movements? It’s hard to equate same-sex marriage to the civil rights movement and then advocate fighting against those things. It’s also hard to start out an argument with the basis of that argument being “my opponent wants me to believe it so I won’t”. That’s not… Read more »
Thank you, Douglas. A thousand dittos.
“I’d love to see this data which tells us that progressives are reproducing at an above-average rate vs. the rest of the American population.” Wait–you guys don’t really believe that gay marriage will somehow deplete the population, right? For the first part gay people could never have children, so encouraging them to get married will not change anything. For the second part, the gay population in America is something like 2% anyway so even if they could have kids and chose not to (many will adopt) it wouldn’t matter. That being said, liberals do have fewer children–at least according to… Read more »
My eyes tell me that things have gotten inexorably worse. History tells me the same. What my eyes and history tell my line up very well with 2 Timothy 3. I think Christians need a healthy dose of pessimism as regards this nation and this world. For instance, if you want to know where new liberals are born it’s in the public schools. If your Christian confidence tells you that you can keep your kids in public schools with no consequences and that you can change the world via facebook post then your confidence is foolishness. To continue to pour… Read more »
My favorite progressive quote:
“I may not like what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”
Also, I am reading all this stuff about the dangers of liberal “coercion”, but wouldn’t most of you like to enforce laws against sodomy and (in a hypothetical world/future where this could be possible possible), even enact the death penalty for certain homosexual acts?
“perpetuate itself through coercion”
Perpetuate = No.
It gets only compliance with coercion.
Perpetuate = conversion.
Think Satan to Eve.
Joe_WA,
I am the one talking about coercion, and no I don’t want to execute anyone (I am generally opposed to the death penalty). Your error is to conflate a sin (like homosexuality) with a crime. The LGBT movement is not looking to be left alone. They are looking to normalize and gain acceptance (celebration, even) of their lifestyle. Hence, coercion.
RFB,
Unfortunately, I fear you are correct. Let us pray it not happen this time.
RFB, I actually agree that those are cases where progressives have been flippy-floppy. I’m not saying they are saints, and people of all ideologies tend to find it an unattractive option to attempt to arrest the momentum of their own causes. But that doesn’t mean that they’ve held to a states’ rights approach, which to my knowledge they never have.
Well, it’s not “my error”, necessarily. I was asking the question because I seem to remember reading such recommendations from Pastor Wilson and the commentators on this site before and was asking for a clarification of sorts.
Joe_WA,
My apologies for the confusion but let it be known that this more or less conservative Christian would be opposing that from the rooftops if it became a reality. I’m not pretending to be speaking for pastor Doug or anything but I can’t see me ever agreeing to that.
RFB, 1. Please show us where any progressive has uttered those comments. This “religious exemption” argument has always been on the right. 2. The argument you are making regarding “force” and religious exemption in the business context is can easily be summed up in one question. If a business (specifically talking corporations here) is sued or goes into bankruptcy, should the owners of the business be held personally liable for the debts of the business or the liabilities of the business? When someone opens a business in this country that is open to the public, they must serve the public… Read more »
@NMD
What is your source for these two statements regarding sodomy?
and
As a gay man, I certainly would not sue any small business who refused to participate in my own commitment ceremony. Why force people to do what they clearly don’t want to do? It just seems to not be a very effective way of going about things. For those of you who insist you’re all about “religious freedom”, though, let me ask you: a) Should Muslim women be permitted to wear full head coverings that show only their eyes for photo IDs since their religious faith requires they remain covered? b) Should Christian Scientist parents not be held legally accountable… Read more »
Timothy asks: “What is your source for these two statements regarding sodomy?” Not to speak for the other gentleman, but I assume he’s referring to the MUCH less-frequently quoted Bible passage, Ezekiel 16:49 “Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.” I assume that’s because these traits have been declared “virtues” by the GOP. With a bit of spin, the poor are by-and-large in the state they’re in because they’re all immoral, have no drive and are lazy. Problem solved. The passage… Read more »
@James Bradshaw.
Thanks. I will await NMD’s reply.
Also, I am reading all this stuff about the dangers of liberal “coercion”, but wouldn’t most of you like to enforce laws against sodomy and (in a hypothetical world/future where this could be possible possible), even enact the death penalty for certain homosexual acts? I catch a sodomite with a child, that sodomite will experience the death penalty. So, yes, to both of your questions. There is a law–God’s law; rebellion to God is Sin. Sin begets sins. Go down that rabbit hole far enough and the sins become more Sinful and rebellious (note the distinction between Sin and sin)… Read more »
heh. The city of Houston has issued subpoenas demanding a group of pastors turn over any sermons dealing with homosexuality, gender identity or Annise Parker, the city’s first openly lesbian mayor. And those ministers who fail to comply could be held in contempt of court. http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/10/14/city-houston-demands-pastors-turn-over-sermons/ No, we can’t all just get along. Not whether, but which. I will not obey the pervert on the bench. C.S. Lewis observation is apropos here: “Have you ever noticed,” said Dimble,” that the universe, and every little bit of the universe, is always hardening and narrowing and coming to a point?” His wife… Read more »
@ timothy
Whoa, what you’ve described is pedophilia. Full stop. And there are laws against that, thank goodness.
Second, your use of the word “fags”…really? Your use of this word is unnecessary and, well, easy. It’s easy to use inflammatory words on a site like this. I’d be more inclined to listen to your points if you used words that demonstrate the God-given value and worth of gays with whom you disagree.
@Timothy,
“…the possibilities of even apparent neutrality are always diminishing” – I think you/C.S. Lewis nailed it. Some professing Christians who used to think they were liberal are going to have to decide between “affirming/accepting” and “homophobia”. It’s not necessarily other Christians who will force the decision. Sorry kiddo’s, the progressive bar just got raised on you. Or is it more like a limbo bar?
@Sara.
It was not easy.
It was considered and intentional.
It is strong language completely at odds with the temperament of the day.
It was meant to convey my contempt for their depravity.
Cheers.
t
@sara Whoa, what you’ve described is pedophilia. Full stop. And there are laws against that, thank goodness. Let me show you how the Progressive progression goes, Sara. Here I play the progressive boy-lover. Sara, why are you so consumed by your chrono-normative hatred of cis-chrono relationships? Your irrational argument about ‘goodness’ proves you have internalized the Anno Domini hate-time perspective. You need counseling and re-education. It is none of your business what two consenting time-displaced mammals do for their mutual pleasure. Shame on you!. Without Christ, there are no limits to depravity, nor are their limits to the defenses the… Read more »
your snark being typical of the more polite proponents of this decline. You will, of course, feel quite virtuous in your rebellion, but then you are among the damned. Wait–have I misunderstood you, or have just judge me as being condemned me to an eternity of Hell based on what I feel is an honest question? On what sin have committed that you have come to this conclusion in the short time that you have been aware of my existence? Believe it or not, there was no “snark” intended in my comment. I would really like to know how one… Read more »
@timothy Wow, well that didn’t take long to get to the slurs, false comparisons, and slippery slope arguments. As we can tell from your irrational statements, you are neither a Christian nor are you even an admirer of Christ. As Anne Lamott famously mused, “You can safely assume you’ve created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do”. Each of these “arguments” that you have put forth were also advanced by those in the Church who sought to justify segregation, subjugation of women, and even slavery in this country. The… Read more »
*excuse the weird italics I accidentally placed in my last post
No problem. we all fall short of the glory of God.
But no one is willing to address timothy’s argument:
Sara, who is this *goodness* you speak of? Where did you meet him?
The road is slippery and it leads to Hell. It may have resting spots but what’s to make it stop? When the *law* says so; those are being changed, remember…
A sin becomes a crime when we can make a scriptural case for attaching civil penalties to a particular behavior. Murder is a crime; hatred is a sin. Adultery is a crime; lust is a sin. With individuals, the distinction is relatively easy to make. Doug Wilson My question is: how does this square with the notion “personal liberty” and not forcing people to remain pure? It seems that Pastor Wilson and a lot of you believe Adultery is a crime that should be punished by the government–which is fine. But then you also believe that the government enforcing various… Read more »
@NMD Wow, well that didn’t take long to get to the slurs, false comparisons, and slippery slope arguments. Name them, hell-bound one. Then rebut them. As we can tell from your irrational statements, you are neither a Christian nor are you even an admirer of Christ. Jesus Christ is my redeemer. He paid for my abominations–the same ones you glory in to your shame–so that I could be free from the penalty of my sin–eternal damnation in Hell–and walk with Him. In the process of trusting Him, He is transforming me from my old nature–the one you inhabit now, the… Read more »
As you know, “thank goodness” is an idiom expressing gratitude and acknowledgement. It sounds like you would have preferred I say, “Thank God.” Which I do, often, for many things. And I am quite grateful to Him that our country has laws against the pedophilia referenced in timothy’s comment. Matthew 5:43-48 has been on my mind lately (for reasons unrelated to this topic) and I thought of it again tonight. May it challenge and inspire you as it has me, in loving and caring for those who need Jesus. “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and… Read more »
@Joe_WA,
I will re-read your comments in the morning with some care.
You originally wrote:
Which strikes me as Tu quoque ; I tend to treat that as ‘snark’; when I see that, I throw elbows.
till the a.m.
cordially,
t
Well maybe it was, but personally I am honestly looking for an explanation to what I see as a conundrum or an inconsistency in thought–which I don’t find to be an expressively negative thing to ask for (nor do I think it’ enough to condemn me to the Hellbound…)
Timothy writes: “God’s got a big-ole-can of righteous whoop-ass coming right upside your head.” I’ve noticed a tendency amongst religious fanatics towards a barely-contained desire for violence and bodily harm against strangers who have done them no particular wrong, and it’s usually because these strangers have, in their minds, violated some facet of sexual morality. You see it in groups like ISIS, of course, but it’s also a thread within American Christianity. In such instances, I’m torn on whether religion is a force for good. On the surface, religion only seems to inflame these peoples’ loathing of nearly everyone. On… Read more »
@Sara, The Holy Spirit, in His Love first convicts of us sin. Conviction of sin is neither pretty nor pleasant–confronting evil never is whether in ourselves or in others. Avoiding the hard-truth’s of the Gospel is not love; for the Christian, avoidance is cowardice. You are taken aback by my forceful words; that is a kindly reaction; a good thing. What you have never experienced is the depth of depravity some of us (me) were/are capable of. For those of us who have done very bad things–and know we have done them–strong language is necessary to break the narrative that… Read more »