The Ogden Issue
Just a quick preface here. It is quite natural that many of you have questions, and I don’t want to simply ignore them. At the same time, I am not intending to say much more than was already said in our post here. There is no need to perpetuate the dispute, dragging it into new territory. I have not listened to the long form Ogden response, and don’t intend to.
You’re making a mountain out of a molehill and exaggerating the seriousness of the meme and the clips. You’re doing more damage than good.David
Laced with poo . . .
Could you give your definition of anti-semitism? And can you give your definition of an anti-Semite?
Thanks in advance.Jordan
Re: “Laced with Poo”:
I’m confused by the movie clip. It’s clearly labeled “horror.” It’s played like a horror movie. The Jewish deli owner isn’t portrayed as contemptible as far as I can see. It seems that the Santa is a character like “It,” except instead of preying on children, he preys on Jews. I accept that whoever shared it could have done so for antisemitic reasons, but the clip itself strikes me more as just weird.Jennifer
Thank you so much for this: I have friends who fangirl hard for the Ogden crowd, and are in denial—complete denial—that they’re doing anything amiss over there. For such, we need hard receipts. Would you be willing to put that together, in a succinct way that can be shared? Something that can show why the Antioch Statement was necessary. There’s some cleverness going on here in the fog of war that makes the signal-to-noise ratio hard to tease out, and people see what they want to see.
Best,Martyn
What is happening between [you and] Ogden? This past spring, I was at a conference where you all shared a stage. From a distance, they seem to be rehearsing exactly the warning Paul gave to the Roman Gentiles in 11:17, acting brazen towards the branches and ridiculing the root, while simultaneously lacking his heart that longed for their salvation. Like the older brother has been out of the house for so long, the younger brother assumes he is an only child. I saw on X that there was going to be a face-to-face, which was encouraging, and then your post from 12/26 popped all my hope bubbles. If I am the average reader, and I think I am, I would like to better understand the differences starting with what precisely is the sin involved here?
ThanksTim
In re: “Laced With Poo” and the general X brouhaha, the trolls to the right need to ask themselves what spirit they are of. Those who can see what spirit they are of need to remember to whom Jesus addressed that rebuke and what kind of men they ended up becoming, by God’s grace.Douglas
Preamble: This isn’t an excuse for Mr. Holden, but rather a critique of your defense of the finger in the NSA ad earlier this year.
Couldn’t Mr. Holden use the same reasoning for the permissibility of using the quarter-second clip of the Santa character bumping into a few Jews that you used for defending the permissibility of using the quarter-second clip of Mr. Cash flipping the bird—compare, it was the video version of saying “eff off” and it was the video version of saying “we’re not saying ‘Happy Holidays’”?
Am I making a category error besides his motives are evil and NSA’s are not? Cheers!Michael
I have been following this issue develop between Ogden and Moscow. I am also an elder in the CREC, so that should give you an idea where my sympathies lie. I used to listen some of the stuff coming out of Ogden. There were things I appreciated but was ultimately turned off by them sounding like a group of female dufflepud cheerleaders. I also have had my concerns with Eric Conn’s comments about “his people” and his derogatory statements about those he sees outside of that group. Apparently, when he is confronted about them online, he isn’t much of a “hard man” but instead blocks questions he can’t answer like a soft lefty. Despite these concerns I haven’t signed the Antioch Declaration. I have never seen any benefits that result from declarations like that. Even if I thought such declarations were beneficial, I found it convoluted. This brings me to the point of this letter. Like the Antioch Declaration, this blog post makes a lot of assumptions that even some one such as myself cannot follow. I went on X and did some searching, but couldn’t find the connection between Samuel Holden and the Ogden guys. Does he go to their church? You mentioned the Ogden guys platforming and sharing his content. Can you give examples of who is sharing and what content?
As an elder who has to deal with these kinds of things from time to time, I think it is better when dealing with someone who is flirting with sinful attitudes and ideas, whether it is racial vainglory or Marxism, to see if they are teachable and can be brought to repentance first. Preach against these things from the pulpit and let these things sort themselves out.John
Very discouraging to see things devolve to this point on X, especially over the past year or so, and see men I thought were worthy of respect prove themselves lacking in discernment. But very encouraging to see you continue to take a stand against malice and racial vainglory. Keep it up!Graeme
Just wanted to holler to express two thoughts.
I’ve known of your existence for several years, but have never (regrettably) taken the time to listen or read your material.
Thanks to the recent Nazi vs. normal people controversy, I decided to listen to two podcasts for the first time. Stone Choir (Gag, and also cringe, with a measure of cold night-sweats), and Blog & Mablog.
In the last two weeks, I have listened to at least 40 Blog podcasts, a handful of sermons, read “Mere Christendom” and “Five Cities That Ruled The World.” Beginning on Adorable Fallacies tomorrow.
Cut to the chase:
God bless you, and may God be glorified that this controversy has led me to your work, it has already challenged, solidified, and entertained.
Besides “Mere Christendom,” is there a work that contains some of your favorite blog posts?
Again, may God be glorified in your work, ministry, and life.
And Pastor Wilson, thank you.Curt
Virgins and Volcanoes
This book is a collection of posts from Blog & Mablog, collected, collated, arranged, and then sandpapered to make it seem more like a regular book. The central theme of the book has to do with our created identity as sexual beings, and how that relates to God’s revelation of Himself in Scripture, and in the natural world. God, sex, and nature, in other words. As we look around at the sexua…
One angle which I think Stephen Wolfe neglects to consider in The Case for Christian Nationalism is how the Gospel itself creates similarities / an ethnicity which (somewhat but not entirely) transcend earthly similarities / ethnicities e.g. Shared faith, shared desire for right worship and faithful following of God’s Law, shared celebrations etc. In the extreme case it would be lawful to marry a believer from a different earthly nation whereas it’d be unlawful to marry an unbeliever from one’s own. At the other extreme, it would likely be highly desirable to marry within one’s local community if there is an abundance of faithful prospective spouses.
How would you parse the limited goods of earthly similarities and the eternal good of shared heritage in Christ when counseling single men and women?Thomas
I am deeply troubled by the anti-anon stance you and White, Durbin, etc. have taken as of late. As an anon, I can say that my mutuals are those who love the Lord and seek to advance His Kingdom. You seem to assume that anonymity is being employed solely for nefarious purposes. In a world where simply supporting Trump or believing that boys and girls exist is enough to ruin one’s life, why wouldn’t the no-name Christian be anon online?
It’s too common for us to become tribal in our thinking. “This tweet was written by the old guy in a Coogi sweater with a Greek handle? Well he’s on ‘my team’ so I agree with it already before reading it!” But when a tweet comes from @LoneBulwark1183, you have to deal with the arguments (or lack thereof) given. If it’s garbage or sinful, disregard it and distance yourself. If it’s faithful and has a point, maybe it’s from a man like me who loves his family, his nation, and his church, and therefore, he’s a friend.
Our enemies would love nothing more than for us to stop being anonymous. When my friends and I are anons, and we are getting counter-signaled for being anons, we assume that’s coming from our enemies, not guys like you, White, Durbin, etc. who have been blessings to many. In war, the shooting should be coming at you from across the battlefield, not at you from the guns of your leaders.
We defended you for Federal Vision, the Black & Tan, the C-word controversy, accusations of being a cult leader, Johnny Cash’s favorite finger, on and on. We don’t (as a general rule) counter-signal our friends. Even if we disagree with their tactics. No enemies on the right.
I love you, your work, and you have been a tremendous influence on me.
It didn’t have to be this way.G
Coming Up on Forty Nine
In response to this post . . .
Wow—I can’t get over her beauty!!!MAH
Thanks for sharing that story. Having been lucky enough to meet Nancy, I can say she is a genuine beauty.Jerry
I have met Nancy briefly. She is a lovely person. Congratulations.Jennifer
Types of Prayer
So, God is not a vending machine, and obedience is not four quarters put into it… but God does bless, prosper, and reward the righteous. Do you have any book recommendations on this subject? I’d like to be firm on the promises while avoiding any heretical prosperity gospel. Thanks.Josh
No title in particular, but a question about prayer and doubting.
James 1 tells us that we should pray without doubting, but we all know God may not say yes to our prayers. So is doubting in this context simply doubting that God hears you instead of doubting He will say yes? James is talking of asking God for wisdom and to me that feels like a very easy and safe prayer, but what if we ask God for the money for our car that is due by the 29th, and today it’s the 28th, does doubting God may deliver us from this and send the money constitute a sinful doubting, or am I overthinking it?Tony
Public School Teachers in Church
If a pastor wanted to start a Christian school through his church, but the school was full of public school teachers/employees, how would you go about it? Our church of about 140 has probably 20 public school teachers/administrators/employees.
I’m trying to communicate that school teachers aren’t bad, but mandates handed down from on high (i.e. Washington D.C.) are crippling our education system. But, I’m worried that any push towards engaging in Christian education will be seen as an attack on them/their livelihood. When I told them that the things we see now in California and New York would be here (in the deep south) in 20 years, they laughed and thought that was outrageous.
Any advice?Caleb
Dangerous Alphabet
As I was adding things to my cart for the Canon Press Black Friday sale; I saw the Dangerous Alphabet book, and as I have a one and a half year old, I added it to the cart. He opened it early as a Christmas gift and my wife and I were a little caught off guard when reading it the first time, though we found the situation funny. We’re big fans of yours and have been blessed by your ministry and are familiar with your work, so this isn’t some “I can’t believe this guy!” situation, just genuine curiosity as to what the target audience and purpose of the book is? Thank you, Merry Christmas.Christian
Just Pray
Good evening, or possibly morning. One might even suppose it could be a good afternoon.
What advice would you give a newly minted uncle to a 9-year-old boy who is almost entirely undisciplined. Corporal punishment (discipline) was fully rejected, as well as almost any other form of discernible discipline. My concern is ultimately his repentance and embrace of Christ, on account of which my wife and I will consistently point him to Christ and pray for his salvation, but I’m seeking advice in the day-to-day, practical handling of a disobedient, manipulative, foolish soon-to-be-man so that it is even tolerable to be in the same room with him. I do not want to teach him that God is like all the adults he’s around, who all day long have to say, “STOP THAT!”
My wife and I are eager to love and minister to a pitiful, hated child well, but always leave his presence exasperated.Lee
An Exegetical Question
I hope all is well. I was wondering what Romans 11:6 means by, “… then it is no longer by works…” Why does it say , “no longer?” What is Paul referring to here with the “no longer” phrase? Election was always by grace so is he referring to something else?
Thanks,Grant
Hard but Straightforward
I have read much of your pastoral advice to others and I would so appreciate some now. My husband is a low key alcoholic. He isn’t constantly drinking but whenever he is in the presence of a friend he drinks and whenever he is depressed or otherwise emotionally compromised he drinks. He often does this away from home which means he then drives home drunk. The frequency of this over the last 8 years (starting with him losing his job after getting a DUI in his work truck) has been 2-3 times a year. In the last year or so it’s been a little more frequent. He tries his best to hide these incidents from me and lies about them so it may be much more frequent than I think. He doesn’t believe he has a drinking problem. He just “messes up sometimes.” We have 3 children 8 and under. I am concerned about my husband and about the affect his drinking will have on our children as they get older. I have seen you advise people in your letters to bring the issue to a head. I have recently tried to do this. He has been out of steady work for almost a year and has been drinking to numb the depression. He drove the kids and me to our Christmas Eve church service intoxicated. I confronted him and asked him what he thought he should do about it and he said he would throw out all the alcohol and not drink until he found a job. 3 days later he broke this promise (though he didn’t get drunk). I told him that we should talk to our pastor but he thinks I’m just trying to shame him so I did not get his blessing to talk to anyone about it. What should I do? All I want is for him to repent and love the Lord.CS
Just a Suggestion
My wife and I would like to put up some high quality artwork on the topic of the Protestant Reformation in our home. I realize the irony of putting up images of the Reformers, but I promise that our intentions are pure. We are considering pieces such as “Luther and Ulrich Zwingli discussing the sacrament without agreement, Marburg 1529” by Gustav Ferdinand Leopold Konig. Are there any pieces you particularly admire?GJ
Funding Missionaries
Just a question about funding missionaries.
The missionaries that I’ve known over the years have had a similar funding experience. They have essentially a “PBS Funding Season” baked into their life. They often worked with extra-church organizations that required them to bring their annual funds (of which they often take a portion for operational expenses).
This has never sat well with me, but I can’t put a finger on why. My gut tells me a missionary should be supported by their session/presbytery and report to them. Or they should be bi-vocational (like Paul) and submit to their sending church or the one (if there is one) in the country they reside.
Is there a principle that would guide the way here? I know if I was ever a missionary I would rather be bi-vocational to avoid all this funding headache, but that’s a simplistic take from someone who has never done “missions” work.Thomas
Another Carrot for the Crock Pot
I know these letters won’t get read until the new year, but thought you’d still enjoy talking about the circumstances of Jesus’ birth. This link makes a strong case that Jesus’ birth was 6:15-7:45 September 11th, 3 B.C., but also that the magi did indeed visit to deliver their gifts on December 25th, of 2 B.C.Ian
A Call for Men Generally
Much of the content from you all is targeted to men and calls them to be men. I’ve greatly benefited from it. But it seems to be one-sided and tailored toward blue collar men: construction workers, tradesmen, lumberjacks, etc. Speaking for myself, I’m a professional white collar man with the hands-on skills of a lame duck. At times, it seems as if blue collar men are viewed as superior to those of us in the offices. Is there a specific word you think similar white collar men here?James
Seminary for Pirates
I recently discovered your blog and YouTube videos along with Canon Press. Needless to say I am very excited to see the work you are doing at NSA. The Church is certainly in need of a seminary for pirates. I have a question related to this but I need to drop some background first. My wife and I are in our late 30s and we have 6 children. We’ve moved quite a bit and as such we’ve attended a variety of churches and denominations over the years. Further, my wife founded and operated a non-profit that dealt directly with local churches over the past 7 years. Because of our many and varied interactions with church leadership we’ve come to view most (not all) church leadership as corrupt.
I can go into the details but I don’t think it’s necessary, what is necessary is to distinguish between my personal experiences and the experiences of others . . . we’ve witnessed other lay people around us be sabotaged or bullied and church leaders engage in adultery and substance abuse (everyone looks the other way) etc . . . right before our eyes or we hear about it later from friends at churches we once attended. I want to make the point that my unique vantage point is not intended to be whiny but is an observation that spans churches, denominations, and laypeople of different walks of life.
Given the above, I have a few questions that have been bugging me and I’m not sure where to find answers.
1) What is your take on the solution to corrupt leadership in churches given the corruption of the normal checks and balances such as boards and denominational oversight?
2) How should lay people respond? Should we find a new church, start new churches, leave, stay and push for change etc…? It seems impossible to overcome the grip that church leadership has over their flock and the complete weakness and stupidity of the flock. They just shrug their shoulders for the sake of “unity” or “church authority” or “forgiveness x 7” or whatever other twisted Bible verse they feel like they can drag out to defend their laziness and cowardice.
3) What am I to do with my kids? We’ve attended Evangelical churches, Assembly of God, non-denominational, Lutheran and we currently attend . . . drumroll . . . the local Catholic church (the priest is actually amazing!) For whatever reason my kids love the Catholic church (they can feel the reverence for God, its not a rock concert) . . . but I’ve got issues with the Mary thing. All that to say, I want my kids to grow up to love Jesus and follow him but I don’t want them to be led astray or soured on church because of corrupt church leaders and the politics of church.
I’ve noticed a parallel leadership structure at all of the churches we’ve attended…the boards are made up of upper middle class men, the wealthiest man in the church however is not on a board, below the boards there’s a layer of leaders who are dumb, manipulative and talentless and they boss everyone around . . . think worship team leader, Sunday school leader, women’s ministry leaders etc . . . The best, most sincere people who should be in leadership are not . . . they volunteer. I’ve also noticed that the most talented people, musicians, teachers, evangelists, leaders, etc . . . will participate temporarily and then quietly back out, while the manager layer and the board layer become permanent fixtures.
I can write a book about this, but see what’s happening with NSA and with Trump and ultimately the country . . . I can feel the surge. How can this same idea infect and revive the local churches? What can we do to jump start this and combat the bureaucracy and uselessness of the local churches? Are we stuck waiting for the next generation of man pastors to supplant the current losers? Or, can we accelerate this?
Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks for being bold.Joe
Wanting to be a Good Teacher
Thank you for all you do and for reading and answering all these letters.
I want to be a “good” teacher.
I am an older guy, married with a grown family, all married and with grandchildren.
I have a track record of taking my head of household seriously and conscientiously according to the Bible/Gospel . . . although not well or as nearly as well as I would like and have liked to have done.
Your example and teaching about the Christian life . . . and especially the family is . . . (as filtered through the Bible) . . . more or less my “gold standard” I suppose you might say.
I think I can say I have a reasonably “successful” family so far, if the standards aren’t too high. Fairly Biblical home and husband/wife relationship . . . responsible offspring, married, attending solid Evangelical churches which I don’t believe are (very?) woke (if at all).
I believe I am very steeped in the Bible and in sound doctrine. i.e. I think I can usually spot counterfeit or the smell of counterfeit or heterodox teaching, etc a mile off.
And before God I am trying to believe and believe in and obey and follow Christ and the Bible faithfully (although very imperfectly) . . . and I believe I can observe growth in my life over time.
And I try to be a good example before my wife, grown children, daughters-in-law, and grandchildren, etc.
And I am ready and willing to talk about the Bible, the Gospel, etc. at any time.
However . . . I am not a good teacher. I have always aspired to be a teacher . . . a good teacher. But I obviously don’t have the gift of teaching (yet?).
When I talk about the Bible or the Gospel or the things of the Lord, I am all over the place. Unfocused, I guess you might say. Whatever I say I tend to qualify all over the place and go into any nuances, exceptions, etc. . . . I seem to be unable to discern exactly where a person is in their understanding and speak to them there, where they are, presenting a clear, simple, logical progression of ideas, etc. and bring them along step by step, etc.
After closely observing real, gifted teachers all my life and reflecting upon myself . . . I can only soberly conclude that I am not a good teacher.
AND YET. . . I am CALLED to be a teacher . . . As a man and head of my household I am CALLED to be a teacher . . . I AM a “teacher” . . . but I’m not a good/effective one.
Pastor Wilson, do you have any advice for an older man like me . . . who is not a good teacher . . . but WANTS to be a better and effective teacher within the sphere of his own home, family, and areas of influence?
Thank you,Robert
Satanic Displays
I live in Minnesota where one week ago satanists set up a paper mache display within the state capitol building. A sign on the display reads “You are your own god” and it includes a prayer that mocks holy communion, approved by our state government citing the First Amendment.
The level of protest has been lukewarm. A group of Christians sang hymns in front of the display in protest, but left it standing. Another night someone knocked it over but the next morning it was repaired with hot glue and re-installed. It is still standing tall and proud, and looks like it will remain there through Christmas.
What is the proper response? It is obviously an effort to troll Christians but it is still blasphemous and wicked nonetheless. For the life of me I can’t understand why there was not a group of godly Christian men swarming to tear it to pieces on day one? Or should they? Is it better to ignore it, to wag our fingers and pray but leave it be?
Personally I’m losing sleep over my anger that this was allowed and over the pathetic apathy of Christians in my state. I cannot understand why we are tolerating a satanic display in the capitol!
What would you guys do if this was happening in Idaho? Any advice would be deeply appreciated. Thank you.Cedric
Everyone at Moscow has severely mishandled this situation you all have started in the reformed camp. Anything to get that Israel money from the Daily Wire, I guess. I’ve lost a lot of respect for everyone leading and vocal in Moscow.
Yeah. Except for the fact that there has been no Israel money from the Daily Wire. Other than that, your case is watertight . . .
Wilks brothers money. So roughly half Jewish, half Christian. 100% Zionist.
Not really. Ben Shapiro (Jewish) founded Daily Wire with Jeremy Boreing (not Jewish, and yes, there are non-Jewish film directors). Boreing created Bentkey Ventures which owns it. The evangelical Christian Wilk brothers provided money. Shapiro is now editor emeritus and, according to Boreing, now CEO and COO, doesn’t make decisions for the company. Key writers are Shapiro, Andrew Klavan, born Jewish but now Anglican, Michael Knowles who’s Catholic, and Matt Walsh who’s Catholic. If we add the Wilks brothers, that comes to seven key players at Daily Wire, one practicing Jew, three evangelical Christians, two Catholics, and one Christian who… Read more »
🤓
No kidding. I was a nerdy girl long before there was a word for it.
Then there’s the whole question of how that’s supposed to mean DW/Christ Church/whatever is getting money from the Daily Wire.
Regarding James’ white collar man question: I’m a white collar guy ( surgeon), as is my brother (accountant), other brother (physician assistant, in seminary), and dad (car business owner). The man stuff applies to and has benefited all of us as well as many blue collar guys I know. I find the blue collar guys need to work on increasing knowledge, and the white collar guys like me need to make sure we know how to get our hands dirty. I’d suggest two things: 1) consider whether this is a bit of conviction settling in on not taking dominion of… Read more »
I wonder if this is true for everybody. When I picture myself in survivalist mode hoping people will toss a few nuts and berries my way, I sometimes think the only truly useful thing I’ll have to offer is knowing how to do a strong but invisible darn. Nobody is going to feed me in exchange for AP Euro history lessons.
James, as a white collar guy myself (engineer) I don’t think I’ve ever thought that Moscow has only been speaking to blue collar men. I do get the sense that they believe men are called to all sorts of careers and they speak directly to them regardless of their careers. I believe that whatever career you find yourself in, if the car breaks down, take responsibility for it. If your kid needs help with math homework, take responsibility for it. These are metaphors and also a concrete examples. For myself, I have occasional angst about being in a white collar… Read more »
But why? I’d suggest your angst and feeling less than adequate for working in a white collar field is culturally conditioned. One possible cure would be to leave your desk for a solid year and work construction everyday, in all kinds of weather, the way men who work in construction have to do. Then imagine that being the rest of your working life as you get older and older. I’ve done the donkey labor and I’ve done the paper pushing, and I feel no guilt or regret for the latter.
What might be missing here is that life is more than paid vocation. If you have a family to care for, there ought to be things you can do with your hands to keep the household functioning well and safely.
Whether there has been an unconscious bias toward manual labor is certainly debatable–which does not means it needs to be debated. I find it self-balancing that NSA, a liberal arts college, promotes the use of a sword and a shovel. Nevertheless, there may be a reason for the apparent tilting of the scales. American colleges are overflowing with kids who 1) have no business being there, 2) have no idea why they’re there, 3) have no financial skin in the game, and 4) have been told to become doctors, lawyers, and engineers because that’s where the money is. And so… Read more »
I get what James is saying, just don’t see it as much with Doug as with most Christian men’s content. I see this as a culture issue where we’ve bought society’s idea of what men can be or react against it instead of starting from scratch with how God, as revealed in the Bible, says men should be. Biblical masculinity is not trucks, guns, and working with your hands but it also isn’t NOT those things. It is about taking responsibility as called by God.