“Thou shalt not follow the multitude to do evil” (Ex. 23:2).
In an earlier post, I said that consistency was necessary in any worldview seeking to build a civilization. It is not necessary if the point is to tear a civilization down. If that is the goal, then radical swerves and changes help to achieve the goal.
Think of a small child, flipping out in the restaurant because the entree was not to his liking. He is lying on the floor, drumming his heels, screeching. If the hapless parents cave, and give him what he wants, and he suddenly changes his mind and flips out over that, the inconsistency helps him because the foundational consistency remains — and that fundamental consistency is that he and his sentiments of the moment must always be in charge.
The argument need not be consistent. All that needs to be consistent is the commitment to emotional blackmail.
And remember, in our day, in this culture, the point of the emotional blackmail is the relentless drive to any and every form of sexual expression, with the exception of biblically-based, monogamous and faithful heterosexual marriage. People can still do that, for now, but they can no longer call it normal, or even think in terms of normativity at all.
This relates to the strangely fierce attitude toward pedophilia on the part of those who, you would think, would have a soft spot in their hearts toward pederasty. And they do, but just wait for a bit.
The point of making pedophilia a high crime (in a worldview without crimes) was to undermine the moral authority of the establishment because of establishment hypocrites. Think of the scandals in the Catholic Church, or heterosexual fathers abusing their daughters, and so on. With all the emotional precision of a kid pitching a fit, the terrible offenses of priests and bishops are used to reject the teaching of the Church on sexual norms at all. The fathers who abandon the sacred trust of protecting their daughters from men, in order to become the man she needs to be protected from, is used by the sexual anarchists as a reason for removing godly fathers from the position of being able to protect anyone.
This is just the kid on the floor changing his mind about the entree. If a father abuses his daughter, he is used as an example of the incipient threat that all white heterosexual males are, and if he complains at a school board meeting about the lecherous books that some aroused sex ed teacher is making his daughter read, then he is the one hauled out of the meeting as a troubler of Israel. The arguments don’t have to make sense, but the fits always make sense.
Christians who operate on the basis of feeeelllings are the parents trying to appease and bribe the kid on the floor. Those who hate child abuse because of the teaching of biblical law have a principled opposition to it, and their theonomic attitude is not going to change just because the pederasts get voting control of the American Psychiatric Association. They hate that kind of sin, and they want the laws to reflect God’s holy standards. Not up for a vote. The throng outside the throne room on the Last Day will not be able to hold an ad hoc referendum on what sins can be brought up.
The parents trying to appease the kid with a French fry are going to be trying to appease him in about fifteen minutes by promising never to mention French fries again.
Just watch. The drumbeat to lower the age of consent is going become impossible to ignore very soon, and the Christians most likely to give way to the new demands will be the very same ones who are giving way to the current demands now. Biblical law teaches us what the standards are, and what the consequences ought to be, and the gospel of grace teaches us to receive with grace every repentant sinner.
So those who have embraced the false gospel of therapy hate the fact that we have forgiven sex offenders in church now, and in about ten years they will hate the fact that we will be refusing to have unforgiven sex offenders teaching our catechism classes.
Jesus is a Savior, and sin can be forgiven. And unless you are going to Hell with it, that is the only thing that can be done with it.
The media is already leading the beat for lowering the age of consent. Games of Thrones has characters who are supposed to be 13 in very sexual story lines. I looked up the actresses ages. Because they were underage at the beginning of the series, the producers couldn’t do anything (yet) I watched the first disc. It takes a lot to gross me out, but that did it. I work at a video rental store. Game of Thrones is our biggest tv rental.
I don’t get it. The age of consent being 18 is a modern phenomenon which dates from the early 20th century. According to Wikipedia, this effort was spearheaded in the US by “feminists and children’s rights activists”. In past, more Christian societies, there was no age of consent or it was set at something like 12 or lower. As societies become more secular, they have also tended to strengthen the age of consent, not weaken it (though no causation is obvious there).
Not to mention that if you want early marriage, then…well what do you think is going to happen?
Matt says: In past, more Christian societies, there was no age of consent or it was set at something like 12 or lower. As societies become more secular, they have also tended to strengthen the age of consent, not weaken it (though no causation is obvious there). Matt, does a Christian society move away from age of consent for the purpose of allowing homosexual pederasts to sleep with boys, or is it for the purpose of encouraging marriage against an unnecessarily prolonged adolescence? Of course, though the charge might be levied, I’m not speaking for sinful men who would love… Read more »
Law will always be consistent.
It will either be consistently inconsistent or consistently Biblical.
Can’t wait to see the rapidly climbing “homosexual pederasts sleeping with boys” rates that are certain to abound now that gay is in.
John Henry, Your sarcasm is clever, noble and bright, but only if you are right. If there is a link, your hard heart’s mocking tone is both evil and thick. Perhaps you want to read this account of a couple who adopted a foreign baby and were cruelly discriminated against and subject to suspicion and police harassment purely because they were homosexual. http://www.smh.com.au/national/named-the-australian-paedophile-jailed-for-40-years-20130630-2p5da.html If you dare to watch the TV interviews you will note that one of the partners, maintains that he did not know it was wrong. The sexual drives that governed this man did not know any boundaries… Read more »
Mr. Hutton, Let me begin by pointing out that your single account of homosexual child abuse is certainly not sufficient evidence to draw the conclusion that the propensity to abuse children is somehow causally connected to a homosexual orientation. One case does not a strong case make. I’d encourage you to read these articles to gain an good introduction to nondeductive inferences: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/logic-inductive/ http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/abduction/ Finally, if you’re truly committed to the “all truth is God’s truth” dictum then I encourage you to read this: http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/faculty_sites/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html A fairly demonstrative disputation of the claim that homosexual orientation is somehow causally or otherwise… Read more »
Wow, you are so right. The main cultural issue conservative Christians face today is the overly harsh laws against pedophilia/child molestation. Instead of walking in the “Right to Life” parade this year, I’m asking my friends to walk in a “support lower penalties for pedophiles” parade.
Anyone catch the news about Burger King changing the slogan to “Be your way”?
John, Let me begin by pointing out that your single ‘study’ is certainly not sufficient evidence to draw the conclusion that the propensity to abuse children is not somehow causally connected to a homosexual orientation. One study does not a strong case make. I’d encourage you to read these articles to gain an good introduction to nondeductive inferences: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/logic-inductive/ http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/abduction/ Finally, if you’re truly committed to the “all truth is God’s truth” dictum then I encourage you to read this: Bible A fairly demonstrative disputation of the claim that homosexual orientation is not somehow causally or otherwise correlated with the… Read more »
This just in:
Christians today are being crucified in the Middle East. Meanwhile, Mr. Doug Wilson of the United States ponders the pitfalls of homemade porn and lowering the age of consent. Stay tuned for traffic and weather…
Mr. Henry. In this day and age where a large percentage of “peered reviewed” articles are frauds, “Science says” is not an argument that men and women committed to truth can take seriously any more. I would sooner trust a crack-whore with 20 bucks than trust “Science says” or “Studies show”. If you are going to make a scientific argument, then make the scientific argument; links–especially to a government institution are not sufficient and border on rudeness. While you are correct to point out the inadequacy of the logical foundation for Mr. Hutton’s comment as a matter of proof, your… Read more »
Doug, you’re starting to sound a bit hysterical on this topic. I mean: People can still do that, for now,…; no one is going to outlaw heterosexual marriage. Maybe you were joking and it didn’t come across. But also, you’re entire case is predicated on reading the minds of…someone, I guess liberals. Sure, they’re stridently opposed to pedophilia today, but it’s all a front and tomorrow they’ll drop it to wage a new offensive in order to kidnap your sons for dark purposes. I mean, apart from the mindreading, liberals just aren’t smart or competent enough to carry out these… Read more »
The right has for a while now viewed society as being manipulated and dragged along by some sinister leftist cabal to nefarious ends. Matt, while I can’t speak for the entire “right”, I can say that I do view society being dragged along, not by some sinister cabal as you put it, but by the sinful depravity of man. What Pastor Wilson puts forth here is nothing new, but the general trajectory of mankind. I also find it interesting that you assign this type of rhetoric to the category of “hysteria” and “fear.” First, I’m not convinced that showing the… Read more »
Yeah I agree, and usually Doug does. It’s why I visit even when I often disagree. It’s just lately I’ve picked up the change in tone; there’s a distinct lack of joy in the above post, replaced with a “they’re coming for your children!” vibe that I usually associate with humorless writers at Slate or some such place warning about theocrats in the mist.
But, if you don’t get that sense then maybe it is just me.
Matt, I don’t think the case that’s being made here is that liberals are waiting to pull off their masks, Scooby Doo villain-style, revealing that pedophilia was their goal all along. It’s that the same strategy that legitimized same-sex mirage can be easily applied in the case of what we now call sexual assault of a minor. Picture the couple on the steps of the courthouse, surrounded by family and supporters, maintaining that their love is true, that they aren’t hurting anyone else’s marriage, and that bile that rises in the back of your throat at the sight of their… Read more »
Mr. Bdub, I’d encourage you to read my words and not read what you’d like my words to be given the hardness of your heart. Paul speaks in many places on self-deception but his most incisive discussion occurs in Romans 1:18 where he writes, “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness.” I take the meaning of my text to be quite plain, I chose my words carefully, and I’d encourage you to consult google if there happen to be some technical terms you failed to… Read more »
You said: “the gospel of grace teaches us to receive with grace every repentant sinner. So those who have embraced the false gospel of therapy hate the fact that we have forgiven sex offenders in church now, and in about ten years they will hate the fact that we will be refusing to have unforgiven sex offenders teaching our catechism classes.” It is not your place to forgive a sex offender, unless the sex offender offended against you personally. 1 Cor 5 spells it out, that you kick out the perpetrator. You are not obeying that. You are not keep… Read more »
Matt, “But liberals win on things like gay marriage because they have better arguments…” No Matt, they do not. No “argument” propounded by man is sufficient against God and His Word. However convincing they may think it sounds, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. One of the reasons that they “win” arguments resides in the pews; they can’t handle and do not want the truth. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but… Read more »
Mr. Timothy, I take it that you confidence in asserting so surely that “a large percentage of ‘peered reviewed’ articles are frauds…” suggests you (a) have actively engaged in a program of testing a sufficiently large sample of peer reviewed articles–presumably in the natural sciences–for fraudulence, found “a large percentage” of them to be so, and conducted this program in a manner that would allow to infer that the property of your sample was also a property the population you drew it from, (b) know of such a program completed by someone other than yourself, (c) have been personally told… Read more »
Ed, you totally missed the point. The problem with professional secular therapy and sexual abuse is that the greatest sin a victim usually commits is the sin of bitterness. The therapist will not discourage bitterness., yet bitterness puts a chain on your soul.
The 1 Corinthians argument doesn’t address what to do with the person on the sex offender registry who never was a Christian. Your outreach team just lead this man/woman to The Lord this morning. They are not in jail. They have done their time. Now what?
@Ed Chapman: “They can be sorry and repentant all they want from a jail cell.” Are you a believer, sir? If not, you have neither right nor reason to use believers’ scripture in your arguments. If you are a believer, then: After they have served their judicially-imposed time-out, what then? Perhaps it would be good for them to be part of a different congregation, but if they have repented (i.e. turned away from their sin), and have served their time (i.e. been found, based on evidence, to have actually committed the crime), should they still be excluded from the fellowship… Read more »
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This is a fair point.
I will address it after I finish my days work.
(p.s. I thought I already submitted this comment earlier, but after coming back to this thread, I did not see it. Apologies if it is double posted.)
Matt wrote: “It’s just lately I’ve picked up the change in tone; there’s a distinct lack of joy in the above post, replaced with a “they’re coming for your children!” vibe that I usually associate with humorless writers at Slate or some such place warning about theocrats in the mist. But, if you don’t get that sense then maybe it is just me.” I think it’s just Matt. Notice the allegory that Doug uses in his original post. Who is the one throwing the tantrum and getting their way? Is it a giant grizzly bear, or a sea beast with… Read more »
When John Henry stops trolling we might have productive conversation. John, my comment is tied to a comment in another post that brings up the growing trend of allowing children to chose their own gender–a trend that has come in alongside the growing acceptance of homosexuality. To use your language, not only is gay in, but allowing gender, hmm… fluidity? among children starting to hit the scene and be accepted. So, if a child is competent, or at least should be free enough, to chose their own gender–and consequently which sex to prefer, or determine which “way” they were “born”–how… Read more »
I agree with Wesley’s point that pederasty and homosexuality may not be related in every clinical sense, but they are definitely related under the category of pomosexuality. Yet we should see all of these sexual confusions as spiritual symptoms. As they no longer see fit to acknowledge God, they are given over to darkness and perverse lusts. The sexual symptoms inform us of the condition of having been given over in judgment, culturally. The Gospel with repentance is the only real solution. Legislative measures do help to protect civically innocent minors in the meantime, but the real goal must be… Read more »
Oops. I meant to say “or even a large minority” above.
Mr. Wesley, I believe that Christians are a new creation, freed from the bondage of sin to become what God almighty intended us to be: His image bearers. I take it that part (I’m using part here in the non-mereological sense) of the character of God–the part especially salient to this thread–is that He is all just: He creates the laws that we as His creation ought to follow. Though we are not in bondage to those laws and live under the law of Grace we are called as a new creation to strive as much as possible to conform… Read more »
@Robert, No, I didn’t miss the point. You said: “The problem with professional secular therapy and sexual abuse is that the greatest sin a victim usually commits is the sin of bitterness. ” Bitterness is not a sin. You have no clue as to what being a victim of sexual abuse is, because you have no empathy. There is no love, there is no compassion. Victims have every right to be bitter. Especially at people like you that allegedly represents Jesus. You are not qualified to tell anyone to not go see a therapist. There is nothing wrong with “secular”… Read more »
Arwen B, Are you aware that sin has a lifetime of consequences? Do you believe in boundaries? Do you believe in “It’s better to be safe than sorry”? Do you believe in safety? The word repent does not mean turn away from sin. It means to change your mind. What I see in your type of church mind set is discipline, but no discipleship. No protection for the remainder of the congregation. Protect and defend the convicted perp over the children? Are you kidding? Who is baby sitting the perp? Who is making sure that the perp is behaving? Who… Read more »
Arwin, You asked me the following: “What of those whose crimes were committed before they became Christians, and who have served their sentences? Should we exclude them from fellowship as well? Are they “not-Christians” because of sins they committed before becoming Christians? And if we are going to exclude people from the congregations because of sins they committed while calling themselves Christians, then perhaps we should start with divorcees, whose sinful divorces arguably cause more damage to a greater number of children than all of the sexual molesters in existence. What would that do to your congregational numbers, I wonder?”… Read more »
Ed, I WAS sexually molested as a kid. Ephesians 4:31 tells us to get rid of bitterness. Being molested is no sin. Being bitter about the molestation is a sin that eats you an enslaves you.
I’m not sayIng that forgives precludes criminal prosecution. You can forgive someone and still testify against them. It is a sin to hate them as you do it
.
Robert, There is no sin in righteous hate. Jesus said that they hated him “without cause”. Well, there is cause in some cases. I am sorry that you were molested as a child. However, that being said, you should be the first to advocate for the victims. You are being too “by the book” in your attitude. It takes time. Lots of time. It doesn’t come right away, just because you read it in a book. Biblically speaking, sin is defined as “transgression of the law”. That can be found in 1 John 3:4. It is not a sin, in… Read more »
Robert, You had said: “I’m not sayIng that forgives precludes criminal prosecution. You can forgive someone and still testify against them. It is a sin to hate them as you do it” Think about that for a moment. Why is the victim testifying? The victim is testifying because the person who victimized is “defending” himself at a trial. He pleaded “not guilty”. And you are advocating that the victim forgive a person that is not repentant? He is not repentant because he said legally that he is innocent of the charge. He is denying that he did anything. And you… Read more »
And….
finishing yesterdays work has spilled over into today. I will respond to John once my commitment is done. Hopefully, today.
Grace and Peace.
t
If you wait for a repentance that probably will not come, then you are will wait forever. The molester will still have a dagger in your soul. The forgiveness is due to obedience to God. Forgiveness is not trust. You don’t have to give them a second chance to hurt you.
Robert, You still don’t get it, do you? Forgiveness is not on your terms. You have no right to demand that a victim forgives. That is between the victim, and God. When and if the victim forgives is not your concern. It is not a sin for a human to not forgive. The person that sinned can ask for forgiveness from God alone and receive it. The victim has nothing to do with that. Therefore, forgiveness by the victim is a healing “process” that tells people that the person that sinned has “no more power” over the victim. When that… Read more »
Robert, I noticed that you said that forgiveness is being “obedient” to God. Really? Here is something for you to read. Isaiah 58. But before I get to that, I will get to this: Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings. Matthew 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. Now, Isaiah 58 Here is your “obedience”! The Lord told me, “Shout out loud. Do not hold back. Raise your voice like a trumpet.… Read more »
A few recent guests seem to be carrying some hurt against the authority, not only of fathers and husbands, but against the authority of the Church itself. Perhaps they have seen examples of great abuses of authority, and this can be very difficult to heal. However, if we make any claim to Christ, we need to love what He loves. He loves His Bride, the Church, and He is the one who has given shepherds to guard the flock. This doesn’t mean that the Church is without spot or wrinkle, or that we shouldn’t resist abuses (see Doug Wilson’s book… Read more »
John Henry stated:
How about a few more? Boy Scout Ineligible Volunteer Files (Perversion Files) (1965 – 1985)
katecho, “THE church”, has no authority over anyone. We pay the salary of an overseer. He works for us, we don’t work for him. Get that in mind. I am not paying him to be my master. I am paying him to preach and teach. He serves me, I don’t serve him. He is not my lord. Those who are overseers are not to overlook, and ignore. All of your stuff is ignoring justice. The context of what Paul is discussing in regards to bitterness has absolutely nothing to do with a person that can think for themselves stating that… Read more »
Ed has done got hysterical…
Mr. McCullars, I am finding it hard to understand how, if you read any of the previous posts, proclaim Christ as your savior, and believe the Word of God to be your law, why you’d put forward a list of names as evidence of a causal or correlation between homosexuality and the propensity to abuse children? Again, I’m going to assume it’s some kind of intellectual arrogance. Let me explain to you why what you’ve put forward isn’t even close to being sufficient evidence to even suggest correlation. Furthermore, let me encourage you to read at the pace most conducive… Read more »
John Henry,
It would appear near certain that reason, manners, and humility will one day die with you.
You didn’t like one example. Apparently you don’t like thousands either. Perhaps Proverbs 30:15-16 should be modified to include John Henry.
Mr. McCullars, Your rational arrogance demands the kind of treatment any man who defies the law of God, in this case the laws of thought He so masterfully established, most clearly deserves. This is especially true if you proclaim Christ but at the same time so clearly flout the law He came not to abolish but fulfill as the Logos! I responded to your post in a manner befitting the discipline of dialectic. I showed how you have not given sufficient evidence to correlate a list of names with a list of examples demonstrating a connection between a homosexual orientation… Read more »
I think John and Stan should meet over coffee.
Ed Chapman wrote: “THE church”, has no authority over anyone. We pay the salary of an overseer. He works for us, we don’t work for him. Get that in mind. I am not paying him to be my master. I am paying him to preach and teach. He serves me, I don’t serve him. He is not my lord. The model for a church pastor and leader is Christ, the Good Shepherd. Shepherds are over the sheep, and they direct the sheep, and teach, and correct, and rebuke in love. Jesus did all of these things for His sheep. Ed… Read more »
katecho, All an elder is, is a mentor. Back in my day, the phrase that I was taught was “Respect your elders”. That has nothing to do with whatever “authority” that they hold. It has to do with the fact that they have “LIVED LIFE”, and based on that, they are wise. Therefore, we are to listen to what they have to say. But, you are suggesting that the word “submit” is like a taskmaster with a whip. No. When a person respects someone, voluntarily, who has “lived life” (an elder), then obeying is voluntary, not because you are ordered… Read more »