Last Friday, Jared Longshore and I flew down to California to appear on a podcast hosted by Pastor Chris Gordon of the Escondido URC. The podcast consisted of sitting around a table for three hours, debating and discussing a range of topics—from Christian nationalism to Federal Vision, and a few stops in between.
Jared and I were extremely grateful for the invitation that Pastor Gordon gave us, and doubly grateful for the gracious and fair-minded treatment he accorded us. We thoroughly enjoyed our time with him—he is a good man. But fair-mindedness does not necessarily mean agreement, as you will see if you watch the debate.
Pastor Gordon released a statement explaining his willingness to have such a debate in the first place, and that statement can be found here. And the debate itself is below.
On a note of personal triumph, I was able to get out of his study without unduly coveting any of his books. As you can see from the photo above, this was no small thing.
Comments are open to all who are willing to behave.
Not sure that I’m willing to behave, but I’m looking forward to listening to the podcast! ;)
Very glad to see men from my current denomination and my former denomination talking. How good and pleasant is the sight…
Pastor Wilson,
Did he apologize on behalf of his fellow elders -one in particular- for comparing you to David Koresh?
I love how Pastor Wilson is so bibline in his arguments. Scripture saturates his responses.
“I’m not reading that in you.” Gordon is a careful reader who attempted to read charitably, but it was contrived for the purpose of an inquisition. His concerns were not issues for almost any normal reader.
100%
As my native translator friends would say, “I don’t dare what these other guys said; Augustine, Kant, Calvin. Just tell us about what Jesus said.” I have to concur.
Well said.
Doug, I have been reading for about 25 years now. And, what amazes me is that most your critics don’t want to hear that you infact agree with them on critical points related to the gospel. They want to keep fighting and say “well, there goes Wilson again backing away from his writings”. I think the issue is that, even though they say that they have extensively read your stuff, they really haven’t.
Completely agree!
I have to say, I have a lot of respect for Pastor Gordon inviting you on, especially considering his close proximity to *ahem* others in Escondido who would condemn you to hell. I imagine he’s about to hear from some people, if he hasn’t already.
It was very interesting listening to this discussion as a Lutheran. As a former Presbyterian in the PCA I used to really soak in the Escondido theology until I realized they tend to quietism when it comes to evil in the civil estate. While I still embrace the amillenial view and reject theonomy I can’t help but notice the over emphasis on “common grace” and the do nothing approach to Gods providence. Common grace seems to be given the power to restrain sin more than it does in reality. I would look to the civil use of the law to… Read more »
This was a very interesting video discussion, and quite civil and enjoyable. Russ, I agree with your comment: “Common grace seems to be given the power to restrain sin more than it does in reality.” I think this is the key difference between Wilson and Gordon. Moreover, when Wilson asserted that the magistrate isn’t doing its job to punish evildoers and reward the good, it appeared that this resonated with Gordon. Nonetheless, I think Gordon kept retreating to the common grace position. I think too often the concept of common grace is used as a “catch all” for all sorts… Read more »
Well said Dan!
He wants to rehabilitate Pastor Wilson?
“I’m optimistic because I don’t think I’m missing anything right now. I think the nations are streaming in.” C.Gordon
“You’re missing good governance of California.” D.W.
After this interview one does wonder if Christ Church has been infiltrated from the inside. Let’s keep Doug busy on explanation tours and he won’t be able to concentrate on the serious work of his ministry. This interview does help me take Pastor Wilson off the pedestal that I have put him on at times. I find myself mismanaging my time a lot and I finally am able to see an example of Pastor Wilson doing it. I could only choke down 30 minutes of this proud Escondido pastor full of angst making a fool of himself constantly interrupting his… Read more »
I also noticed that Pastor Gordon exuded a bit more pride than I would have preferred. He came across as a bit too confident at times. Moreover, when he sought to rebuke Pastor Wilson at different points, he frequently used the pronoun “we” (as in “we are concerned” or “we have been concerned”). It sounded like he was speaking for a whole group of people where he is the duly appointed representative of the group assigned to chastise Pastor Wilson. I would have preferred that Pastor Gordon simply speak for himself (“I” not “we”). Secondly, I didn’t care for Pastor… Read more »
spot on
Agreed. That haughtiness of Gordon was palpable. Especially at the end. Watched the full 3 hours and it just went from bad to worse.
When Doug has talked about if there is no god over the state in the past I got what he meant. It took me a couple times to understand what Pastor Gordon was saying. Yes, technically God is over even a secular state just like he is over an unrepentant sinner. We tell the sinner to repent and to acknowledge Christ as Lord over their life even when he technically already is.
Doug you better watch out. Keep handling yourself like this in debates and interviews and the Moscow boycott is going to get slapped back in place real quick.
Unfortunately, the podcast was way to encompassing for any real settlement on the issues. I believe a sit down such as this should be limited in scope. Mr. Gordon seemed less interested in Doug’s clarification and more interested in covering ground. Too many issues raised without substantive interaction and then little acknowledgment of the clarification offered.
Agreed. Felt the exact same way on all counts.
But Pastor Wilson this interview caused quite a few other foreheads to turn red. If I had wanted to watch such immaturity, foolishness and arrogance from a host I would’ve watched The View.
Have you seen Doug’s clown world YouTube channel? 😬
Pastor Douglas Wilson is most edifying through his written word. Read all of his books.
Pastor Voddie Baucham is most edifying through his preaching. Watch his sermons.
Pastor Jeff Durbin is most edifying at the corner of a mormon church, abortion clinic and his front door. He is a Master Evangelical Ninja, watch those on YouTube.
James White, if you like to travel.
George Grant for history and if you think you have quite a vocabulary and would like a challenge.
Pastor Gordon’s condescending attitude was a turn-off
Tough to watch but I did.The host did not allow the audience to hear the position of his guests. It definitely was not a debate. It sounded more like a lecture. The host was condescending and self-righteous. His voice filled all the air time. .Even the tilt of his head came across as arrogant. I hope he apologized for the rude statements at the end of his long monologue. My takeaway? A life lesson in meekness and long-suffering as demonstrated by Pastor Doug and Jared.
i felt Gordon was way out of line throughout the whole video. His agenda was pure passive aggressiveness. Gordon, a reformed educated pastor could not understand literature EVER SINGLE poster watching that debate had no issue with??? Seriously???? Then he pulls this leftist media mentality of “Doug you are confusing people”. No Chris, YOU are certainly crying foul yourself as a confused individual, you are alone in your confusion, but really what we all see is YOU garnishing credit from the reputable to achieve self-promotion. Deplorable dude.
I attend your plant church in Oceanside with Pastor Danny Hyde.
My Full Preterist response to Doug and Chris on Rev. 10-11: https://youtu.be/z-ANNusmytU?si=ynCuS8GdJVD9xdn1