Yea, Though She Fall Into the Van

The latest thing to take the Internet by storm, and the presidential campaign by storm, and the imagination of meme-makers everywhere by storm, is the video shot of Hillary Clinton collapsing into her vehicle. It was a moment filled with . . . moment, you might say.

Now of course our public discourse immediately began chundering all sorts of things in response to this, and so we are not lacking commentary on it. But I do want to say just a couple of things about all this that might be helpful to Christians.clinton-faint

Moments like this separate those who hate what Hillary Clinton stands for, and who want to oppose her as an evil woman, and those who are simply filled with spite and malice (for whatever reason). Those in this latter group may have begun their anti-Hillary careers innocently enough, but they are ending them filled with bile.

The responses therefore range from a thoughtful “this should be interesting” to a cackling schadenfreude. And then, on the other side of both of these, we have the indignant chiders and rebukers—those who want to say that this is the kind of thing we shouldn’t even notice. “It is not a policy issue, and anyway I thought you guys were supposed to be pro-life.”

Scripture has something to say to all of us in this.

“Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, And let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth: Lest the Lord see it, and it displease him, And he turn away his wrath from him” (Prov. 24:17–18).

The Bible flatly prohibits chortling about things like this. You may not. Thou shalt not. Do not let your heart be glad when she stumbleth, yea, when she falleth into the van. That’s plain enough. But what is the reason given? The reason is that if you think it is possible that the Lord might be in the process of taking out someone who is evil, you do not want to provoke Him into changing His mind through your unseemly behavior on the sidelines with the pom-poms.

In short, your reaction must not be carnal. There is a carnal kind of spite that is prohibited, and there is a carnal kind of sentimentalism that is prohibited. There is the malice that just erupts when someone you personally detest has something bad happen to them—and a lot of people on the hard right do not know what spirit they are of. But then there are the sob sisters over here on the kinda-right who do not know what spirit they are of either. They don’t know that the reason you are to guard your heart against petty spite is because God is the one who lifts up and who throws down, and we should want Him to finish the job.

Hillary Clinton has a lot to answer for. She really is an enemy of God. Our prayer should be that all enemies of His be destroyed. Our prayer in the first instance is for her, that she come to that destruction in repentance—for God-given repentance really is the true destruction of a sinner. But if in the providence of God, the destruction begins to unfold apart from any repentance on her part, our response must not be the kind of laughter or finger-pointing that marks malicious celebration, but rather the kind of fear that makes our ears tingle. Hillary’s Clinton’s life, down to the business of “managing” this story, has been a tissue of lies. Those lies are heaped and mounded, like a pyramid of wadded-up Kleenex, and our God is a consuming fire.

Neither spite, nor sentiment. The stakes are too high.

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wtrsims
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JakeJ
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JakeJ

Thanks. Duly rebuked, but that was helpful.

wtrsims
Member

Amen, Pastor.

This is a good word.

FrJ+
Guest
FrJ+

Well said, Pastor…Amen. Thank you for the Biblical reminder of how we are to conduct ourselves on this occasion.

Cyrano Jones
Guest

“The reason is that if you think it is possible that the Lord might be in the process of taking out someone who is evil, you do not want to provoke Him into changing His mind…”

Oh, Lord, forgive my rejoicing at Hillary Clinton’s malady, but, please don’t change Thy mind. You were right the first time.

Bro. Steve
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Bro. Steve

Good reminder. I repent.

Eagle_Eyed
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Eagle_Eyed

Just as Jesus rebuked the justice-thirsty Pharisees for their self-righteousness, Solomon recognized that the LORD hates the victor gloating over the downtrodden–even if the downtrodden is fully guilty. We are called to be different than the world, to pray for and love our enemies. But this is only half the story as the Christian must not lessen the true evil which the Jezebel of our age promotes…abortion, sodomy, feminism, racial amalgamation, etc. Her literal downfall is the working of a righteous and just God. Until she repents, truly she deserves imprecations. Psalm 69 says this about God’s enemies… 22 May… Read more »

Katecho
Member

“racial amalgamation”?

Jon Swerens
Member

Honestly, what do you think, katecho? Are account like Eagle_Eyed really D.C. liberals trying to discredit Christianity? Or are they in earnest? And if they are in earnest, how do they get WiFi in their backwoods bunkers anyway?

ashv
Guest
ashv

What happened to the Israelites exiled to Assyria?

Jon Swerens
Member

Uh oh! Here comes the ten lost tribes and Herbert W. Armstrong to the rescue!

ashv
Guest
ashv

Huh. Never heard of that guy. How special.

Anyway I was referring to the normal-person view that the Israelite captives were absorbed into the other ethnic groups in the Assyrian empire and lost their group identity.

Jon Swerens
Member

Oh no! They lost their group identity! That sounds … that sounds exactly like the Scots, the French, the Sicilians, the Welch, and the Germans, all who lost their group identity by moving to America and eventually creating my kids. TURRIBLE INDEED

ashv
Guest
ashv

I don’t expect immigrants or descendants of immigrants to feel any loyalty towards people actually from here. So your attitude doesn’t surprise me in the least.

Jon Swerens
Member

So I’m not sure what tiny fraction of the human race you believe to be unaffected by this mixing that you find so horrible. I guess your genes have passed through the millennia with nary a scratch, eh?

ashv
Guest
ashv

My great-grandfather was Scottish but the rest of my family is Southerners. I’m certainly not saying that all immigrants have divided loyalties. But it’s not surprising when they do.

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

I don’t think I do. Except for my insistence on the superiority of Kraft Dinner, my fondness for Justin’s hair (Trudeau not Bieber), and my insistence that Canada won the War of 1812.

ashv
Guest
ashv

You live in LA though; have you ever visited America?

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

Am I correct in guessing you would think NYC and Chicago don’t count? How about Seattle?

ashv
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ashv

Since you ask, you seem to have some intuition for the answer. There’s a lot of different Americas. The one that gets overlooked is “places where most of the people are mostly descended from colonists”.

Anyway my main point is that from what I’ve read about LA, and seen in a brief visit there, it’s more like an overgrown shopping mall than a place that can inspire loyalty.

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

I think that in an interesting observation. I suspect that for many Angelenos, the loyalty is directed to the particular neighborhood and may be based on an ethnic or “lifestyle” identity. Toluca Lake is hip and cool, Fairfax used to be Jewish Orthodox, West Hollywood is gay, my own is tough, working-class Hispanic, and Little Armenia is–well, you can figure that out. For some, it is identification with The Industry ( you never need specify which), cultural events, or even sports teams. For myself, I love the climate (except when the temperature goes over 90 degrees), the cultural history, the… Read more »

ashv
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ashv

Makes sense. Anyway, when I think about immigrants, loyalty, and LA, this always comes to mind. http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jun/26/sports/la-sp-0626-plaschke-gold-cup-20110626

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

I so much wish that people wouldn’t do that. A large part of my heart will always be Canadian. What has prevented me from becoming a citizen much earlier was my fear that I could not conscientiously take the oath abjuring all loyalty to the Queen, maple syrup, and ending my sentences with “eh”? I was always amazed by my American friend who told me to just cross my fingers. But I learned within a few days of arriving here that social expectations regarding the expression of patriotic feeling are very different and that it is offensive to display openly… Read more »

ashv
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ashv

Yeah. The stereotype of people living in dirt-floored maple sugar shacks actually applies to Vermont, not Canada…

40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN
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40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN

Please tell me you’re not in Boyle Heights.

Or thinking of moving there.

They’re out for honky blood in Boyle Heights.

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

Gringo, not “honky”. No, I don’t. I live in the Valley which would be unrecognizable to the returning GIs who bought tract houses here. I have never suspected that anyone was out for my blood. In fact, I have often found the opposite which sometimes embarrasses me. I am often the only white woman riding the bus. People give me their seats, even when they are not much younger than I. And I don’t think it is merely because I smile sweetly at them.

40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN
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40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN

They say gringo.

I say honky.

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

I forgot to mention your first point. I suppose you could say that LA was developed by colonists and their descendants. The Spanish friars would certainly qualify, as would the middle class, Protestant white people who came to buy cheap land and enjoy eternal sunshine at the turn of the twentieth century. How any of them survived without air conditioning is a mystery. I have a sister in the Pacific Northwest, and have therefore spent a lot of time in eastern Washington and Sandpoint, Idaho. I found the people to be indistinguishable from the Canadians with whom I grew up.… Read more »

Jane
Member

Since humanity started on the other side of the ocean (no matter which origin story you believe) then nobody has any loyalty toward anyone who actually exists, by your definition. Nobody’s “from here” in that sense.

Jon Swerens
Member

I think he’s hoping I cut my children to pieces and scatter them among the European nations. That’d be a great start.

timothy
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timothy

Pulse Orlando just got shot up by people with a coherent group identity. I would say “take it up with them” but they will kill you with pleasure–NOT TURRIBGLE INDEED as you die because of your ideology.

Jon Swerens
Member

So what you’re saying is that group identity can be a very, very bad thing. Agreed!

timothy
Guest
timothy

Different groups behave in different ways. Yes, Islam is incompatible with Western Civilization and Christianity. If you are an Islamicist, then Christianity is an evil. Why is this so hard for you to accept? As a Christian, you cannot say that identity must go away. He is, He never changes, He is Truth….. We are in Him. We have an identity in Him. Identity is (whatever the word is that says things are neither moral nor immoral–they are outside morality). We can say that different religions (identity), peoples (identity) , cultures (identity) are good or bad for us (identity) We… Read more »

Jon Swerens
Member

Timothy: I think you may have misplaced the plot of this entire conversation, which began with “Beagle_Eyed” making the wild claim that something called “racial amalgamation” is a “true evil.” Finding our identity in Christ and in His Church is absolutely an antidote to the race animosity being perpetrated on the left and the right.

timothy
Guest
timothy

Possibly Jon.

I have a cold/bug. These topics will come up another time and we can discuss when I have a functioning brain.

cheers.

t

Jane
Member

You realize of course that they did not lose their integrity as a people because they were absorbed into the pagan empires, but that they were absorbed into the pagan empires as judgment for losing their integrity?

Jon Swerens
Member

Shh! Next thing, these big-government race-a-mentalists will discover Ruth and Rahab and completely lose their plotline.

ashv
Guest
ashv

Ruth and Rahab are important people to remember and certainly reveal that tribe and nation aren’t the most important things. But remember that Amalek is in the Bible too.

Jon Swerens
Member

So make up your mind. Is “racial amalgamation” a “true evil” along the lines of sodomy and abortion like “Beetle_Eyed” states above?

ashv
Guest
ashv

I think that the government-mandated destruction of white communities and the pro-miscegenation propaganda so prevalent today are true evils. I don’t think interracial marriage per se is evil.

Eagle_Eyed
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Eagle_Eyed

Ha!

ashv
Guest
ashv

Clever pun.

Jon Swerens
Member

I also say:
racial amalgamation“?!?
How did that sneak into your list of evils?

timothy
Guest
timothy

Seen South Africa lately?

Jane
Member

Is the problem in South Africa that the races amalgamated too much?

Jon Swerens
Member

We definitely need a government program to put a stop to that nonsense.

timothy
Guest
timothy

Not at all.

Per my reading South Africa is no longer Dutch, with all that entails.

Jon Swerens
Member

So, the Dutch were lousy evangelists. Agreed!

JohnM
Guest
JohnM

What all does being Dutch entail?

Jane
Member

Then if the problem isn’t racial amalgamation, then this is in no way a response to Jon and katecho’s query.

Perhaps the problem in South Africa is not that it is no longer Dutch, but that it is no longer Bantu? I mean, who really upset the apple cart there?

timothy
Guest
timothy

Hi Jane.

I failed to look up the definition of amalgamation. Its meaning is 180 degrees from what I supposed it meant. I apologize for my failure.

Let’s discuss another time. I am ill with a cold/bug and rational thought is too much effort at the moment.

cheers.

t

timothy
Guest
timothy

Race. Peoples are different. Black people are different from white people. If I notice that White people built Detroit and that it now lies in ruins with the influx of black people, then you will call me racist. If I notice that White south africa was prosperous and that it is now a socialist hell-hole and this coincided with the displacement of white’s, you will call me racist. If I notice that Hiroshima was destroyed by an atom bomb and was rebuilt into a beautiful city by the Japanese and then notice that the beautiful city of Detroit today looks… Read more »

Jane
Member

Do you understand that there are options besides “insistence on mono-culture globalism” and blaming everything on “racial amalgamation?”

Farinata degli Uberti
Guest
Farinata degli Uberti

Presumably so; what’s your basis for excluding it? It’s at least a correlating factor.

Jane
Member

I don’t see that the races have amalgamated to any discernible degree in SA, that’s why I exclude it as an important factor. Sort of the way I don’t consider a high beef diet an explanation for any health-related phenomena in India. ;-)

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

Timothy, is a well educated black from an upper middle class home qualitatively different from his white counterpart? Are you assigning race as the only explanation for cultural differences? One of my surgeons is both black and Jewish. He graduated from the Ivies before the days of affirmative action. Would a population of similar blacks destroy Detroit?

timothy
Guest
timothy

Let’s discuss another day, Jillybean. I am recovering from a cold/bug and do not feel like thinking. (:

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

Poor Timothy! Feel better soon.

drewnchick
Member

One sentence should clear up all your questions, Jilly. Race does not equal Culture. Race really means nothing; CULTURE is paramount. Blend in as many different races with all their interesting angles, quirks, and offerings that you want. If you do NOT blend in their cultures, you will have one of two natural consequences: segregation, or violence. If you DO blend in the cultures, you will also have one of two natural consequences: amalgamation, or dominance with flavors of the rest. Now, here’s my take. Christ’s Kingship should be the dominating influence that all our minor cultural differences color and… Read more »

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

You are so right. And that only a truly Christian outlook can make us willing to curb our own resentment at times. Living in an incredibly multicultural neighborhood, I have learned that I must be more willing neither to take nor to give offense. I can’t blast Vivaldi at the neighbors while expecting them not to blast rap right back at me.

Mark Hanson
Guest
Mark Hanson

I actually feel a bit sorry for her in this – not that the lies have been caught out, but in wondering whether the lies are coming directly from her, or from those around her who want her to win so much that they won’t let her show weakness. As the political steamroller plows ahead, it’s often the machine’s self-preservation that becomes important, not the politician’s.

Larry Geiger
Guest
Larry Geiger

Thanks JakeJ.

John Stoos
Member

I was driving a good bit yesterday and listened to the cable news chanels: So with about sixty million children dead and almost twenty TRILLION in debt to show for it, all they have to talk about in a presidential election is a stumble and how to properly use the word deplorable!

Rob Steele
Guest
Rob Steele

“Chundering”. For those wondering it’s an Aussie-ism derived from the nautical “Watch under!”, the cry indicating that something is about to fall on your head, a block maybe or a marlinspike. Now it means mainly vomit or to vomit and aptly describes the internet process, the very thing we are engaged in now.

God, please magnify your glory in HRC. Humble her and make her love it and love you. Destroy her rebellion in any case, and ours too. If you can do Nebuchadnezzar you can do anyone.

Capndweeb
Guest
Capndweeb

One of the reasons I read Wilson is it expands my vocabulary. The word I had to look up today was the very one you mentioned. Aussie slang can be very “colorful.” Fair dinkum, Rob Steele.

Linda Mock
Guest
Linda Mock

Thank you ~

JP Stewart
Member

A few weeks ago, I mentioned her health in a comment here. There was a bit of discussion. It’s hard to distinguish the truth from tinfoil hat stuff and the MSM’s protective narrative (it was allergies..no it was the heat…alright, it was pneumonia but she got better!). Regardless, I thought there were serious issues before this incident. Given her lifelong pattern of deception and lying (both white and flagrant ones), the only path to the truth is to watch and see what happens next.

Rob Slane
Guest
Rob Slane

This is helpful Doug, and I agree with your thoughts. The irony is that some of those who cackle at her current predicament will be the same that hate her for her deplorable (that word) cackling at the death of Muammar Gaddafi. Now he was a wicked man, yet anyone who knows the manner in which he died and then sees the manner in which Mrs C cackled at that death will wonder just how much her conscience has been seared with a hot iron. We sure don’t want to exhibit that kind of response. However, the Scriptures do sometimes… Read more »

Katecho
Member

But God will break you down forever; He will snatch you up and tear you away from your tent, And uproot you from the land of the living. Selah. — Psalm 52:5 Perhaps a difference is that, in Psalm 52, it appears that God has already completed His judgment, and rested (Selah), before the laughter begins? In the moment of judgement itself, it seems the most appropriate response is a fearful silence. I have a sense that in Hillary’s case, there is a whole lot further for her to fall than just into the van. (On the other hand, Wisdom… Read more »

timothy
Guest
timothy

Deprecating psalms …..
?

insanitybytes22
Member

Amen! Now there’s some darn good preaching.

Never mind Hillary, those are words of wisdom for all aspects of our lives. Forgiveness can be a nasty business, but we really do have to learn how to take it beyond, “oh Lord, please just let me watch…”

The good news is that He knows our hearts. The bad news is also that He knows our hearts…

40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN
Guest
40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN

The Bible flatly prohibits chortling about things like this. You may not. Thou shalt not. Do not let your heart be glad when she stumbleth, yea, when she falleth into the van. That’s plain enough. But what is the reason given? The reason is that if you think it is possible that the Lord might be in the process of taking out someone who is evil, you do not want to provoke Him into changing His mind through your unseemly behavior on the sidelines with the pom-poms. If you’re white, that is. If you’re a black “conservative” or black Bernie… Read more »

katie
Guest
katie

LOL

40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN
Guest
40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN

Has anyone checked on Thabiti Anyabwile?

He must be absolutely despondent over Hillary fainting.

JP Stewart
Member

I have to wonder–will this be the final straw for people like him? After the email scandal and now this, how much more lying and deception will they tolerate? At least they can write-in “Ron Burns” or something when they vote…

ashv
Guest
ashv

Amen. She needs to last until the election lest we get someone more competent replacing her.

ashv
Guest
ashv

A good reminder. But it occurs to me that this wasn’t like Saul being wounded in an attack by the Philistines. She could have stayed home and gotten the care she needed. As it is, she done brought this on herself.

Christian Histo
Guest
Christian Histo

Is it ok to pray that both she and Trump are forced to resign due to health problems? 300 million people in this country and those two are who we came up with?

I know the fat pear shaped orange 70 year old Trump is the healthiest human to ever run for office but one can hope.

wtrsims
Member

Wait wait wait….

You told us Trump would never become president. Are you backing down on that now?

Christian Histo
Guest
Christian Histo

Oh, I still think he is going to lose. But that still gives us a democrat. I would like an actual conservative to be in the race.

wtrsims
Member

You’re consoling yourself with silly fairy tales if you think any other person on the Republican team was going to win the election.

Christian Histo
Guest
Christian Histo

Haha.

Trump is pulling in a solid 42% in the polling data. That is so horrible. Literally any other candidate would be crushing Hillary right now. Clowns like you picked the one human being in this country that was capable of losing to that lady.

wtrsims
Member

Histo, even Doug has said that Trump has a fair chance of winning. Douglas. Wilson. Clinton would be devouring ANY of the other 16. Trump is the only one that has had the courage and fortitude to not back down in the face of being called daily “racist,” “Hitler,” “Nazi,” etc… He’s stood up for his supporters when the Blue team calls them “deplorables” and whatever “-phobe” is sparking the most “outrage” at the moment. In fact, here’s a headline from WaPo: Don’t compare Donald Trump to Adolf Hitler. It belittles Hitler. You go ahead an obstinately lie and say… Read more »

wtrsims
Member

Anybody and everybody is free to talk about how terrible Trump is.

But you ought to have the honesty and decency of character to admit that he’s the only one able to take this on and not cower in the corner.

Trump’s on the offense, while Hillary, that strong women, has to send in her husband and the man who beat her back in ’07 to do her job for her.

Christian Histo
Guest
Christian Histo

He is not on offense. He is on self destruction mode. All he had to do is be silent and he would be up 10%. Instead every news cycle includes some insane, innane and conspiracy theory inspired madness that distracts from the fact that Hillary is the worst candidate the DEMS have ever run.

Christian Histo
Guest
Christian Histo

Wesley: “Clinton would be devouring any of the other 16” What the fudge are you talking about? What about 42% do you not understand? Look at Romney, McCain and Dole (the worst GOP candidates in recent history) and they all did WAAAAY better than Trump is doing. I disagree with Doug Wilson but if he is right and Trump does have a chance it has absolutely nothing to do with Trump being superior to the other 16 and every thing to do with the fact that the democrats picked the one person who people hate almost as much as Trump.… Read more »

wtrsims
Member

Histo, it’s remarkable that the 16 other candidates who were all better than Trump, couldn’t manage to beat him.

I’ll let you have the last say in this exchange. Your silliness and obstinacy warrants no further reply.

Christian Histo
Guest
Christian Histo

Are you really this ignorant as to how the electoral process works?

You do realize that often the candidate who wins the nomination is not the best general election candidate right? It is a classic problem and it is why often parties do their best to control the outcome. In the primary it makes sense to make dumb statements about mexicans being rapists. But that makes it hard as heck to win the general. Even Trump sees that and has flip flopped on immigration.

Every candidate of the 16 was polling better than Trump in the general.

Christian Histo
Guest
Christian Histo

I love that you think attacks on the GOP candidate are worse this year. They always call GOP Nazi’s. They even did it with moderate McCain. The difference between the other times the media did it and this time is that this time it is sort of true. Trump is closer to a fascist than he is to a Reagan small government conservative.

Trump is swinging 42% (when even McCain got 46%) because when they called McCain a Nazi everyone knew it was just the liberal media…. when the media calls Trump a Nazi, people say…. “that sounds about right.”

Capndweeb
Guest
Capndweeb

Odd….it almost sounds like a conspiracy, doesn’t it? MWAHAHAHAHA!
(Last week, I tongue-in-cheek postulated that Trump was a set-up to get Hillary elected because he was the only candidate Hillary could beat–which is pretty much exactly the words you just used. 40AAAK and Wesley went ballistic calling me a nut-case, thus granting me the great joy of having trolled the trolls.)

Dave
Guest
Dave

I don’t want a democrat or republican. I pray that God would raise up Godly leaders instead.

Christian Histo
Guest
Christian Histo

Agree. But not sure how you could be a Godly man and a democrat.

40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN
Guest
40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN

Let us know how that works out for you!

JP Stewart
Member

And then what? A bi-partisan Mitt Mormney-John Kerry ticket saves the day? Or maybe 4 more years of B. Hussein?

Christian Histo
Guest
Christian Histo

Romney = million times more conservative than Trump.

I held my nose to pull the lever for Romney. He had flip flopped on abortion and health care before running and that was just too liberal for me. Then came Trump. Trump filp flopped on abortion and health care too. And gay marriage. And transgender. And on Hillary Clinton. And on free markets. And on Eminent Domain. And on constructionist judges. And he has a porn star wife to top it all off!

Yeah….. never thought I would be nostalgic for a candidate I could hold my nose to vote for.

JP Stewart
Member

Garbage. Romney got more liberal every day the election went on, and he’d do nothing on immigration. And let’s not forget Romneycare.

He’s a pure milquetoast neocon sellout…nothing more. And electing him would just encourage the GOP to keep nominating more Romneys, McCains, Doles, etc.

Christian Histo
Guest
Christian Histo

Name one issue that Romney is more liberal than Trump on. I can name many issues that Trump is more liberal than Romney on.

Plus… porn star wife.

Christian Histo
Guest
Christian Histo

How can I stop the GOP from nominating Trumps?

ashv
Guest
ashv

It’s too late. Religious conservatives aren’t significant in this election. Nobody is attacking them or trying to pander to them. Y’all got eclipsed by a cartoon frog.

Christian Histo
Guest
Christian Histo

Didn’t your boy pander then hell out of liberty college and claim to be a Christian over and over? I think I remember him claiming that the bible was his favorite book? I also remember him talking about how much he “The evangelicals” loved him. Your boy was one huge ball of pandering during the primary? When he got the nomination, didn’t he pander by releasing a list of judges he would pick to try to lock up the Christian vote? Seems to me that your boy proves your own dumb point wrong. But you are used to people proving… Read more »

ashv
Guest
ashv

Sure. Trump isn’t anti-evangelical, but he’s not competing in the Conservative Olympics like Cruz was.

Christian Histo
Guest
Christian Histo

He wasn’t just not anti evangelical, he put on the full press of evangelical pandering on. Liberty, two Corinthians, Bible = favorite book, interviews on CBN, professions of how Christian he is, discussion on his “room full of bibles” (seriously). He pandered like crazy.

And yes, so did Cruz. And Huckabee. And Jindal. And Walker. They all did.

You said no one pandered to the Evangelicals. But in fact, they all did. So, you were not a little wrong, you were 100% wrong. As usual.

ashv
Guest
ashv

The primaries are over, if you didn’t notice.

Christian Histo
Guest
Christian Histo

I’m sorry, I forgot your procedure.

Step 1: Make ridiculous statement (“No one is pandering to the evangelicals”)
Step 2 : Be shown how ridiculous that claim is (with evidence that Trump and everyone else pandered like crazy to the evangelicals)
Step 3 : Attempt to deny the evidence (well…. Trump wasn’t anti evangelical)
Step 4 : Be shown more evidence (additional Trump pandering quotes)
Step 5 : Change the subject (well, its not the primaries anymore)

Waaa waaaaa. Haha!

adad0
Member

Well…., in the good side of the unintended consequences department , even North Korea would develope a sense of humor, if there was a president Biden!????
( aka, “Uncle creepy”)

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

I think that at his age and weight (267 pounds), he is a heart attack waiting to happen. I don’t wish that on him or on anyone. But I think we should be paying a lot of attention to both candidates’ VP choices.

Christian Histo
Guest
Christian Histo

Best result I can imagine is Trump winning and then dying immediately after swearing in. I do not love Pence but I will take him over all other alternatives right now.

EDIT: Ok, given the nature of DOug wilson’s blog post and the true biblical commands of loving your enemies and all I should clarify….the BEST result would be Trump converting to the True Faith, repenting of his sins, and then reading some economic books to get educated.

40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN
Guest
40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN

Looks like jilly must’ve got banned.

Prolly the Jew thing.

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

Not likely, buddy. I have been distracted by the demands of Real Life.

Christian Histo
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Christian Histo

Hillary has almost been indicted, has been caught lying over and over, has a horrible approval rating, and her health is horrible, has a horrible yelling speaking voice, has a weird rapy and creepy husband…… and she is STILL beating Trump.

Thanks Trump supporters for the great candidate. He is now tracking at 42% in the polling average. But of course, he was the “only candidate who could win.” haha!

Jennie
Member

Be careful!

Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, And let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth: Lest the Lord see it, and it displease him, And he turn away his wrath from him.

Christian Histo
Guest
Christian Histo

Who is my enemy in this case? Trump supporters? And they fell by what? Being spectacularly wrong? Not sure how my pointing out their spectacular level of stupidity in any way applies to that verse.

Jennie
Member

I was speaking to your comments throughout the thread. You do seem to hold a high level of animosity toward Trump and his supporters.

I do understand that verse better now though.

A heart cannot hold reverence for our Creator and at the same time despise his creation. There are two types of rejoicing in a fallen enemy. The evil heart rejoices in the humiliation of his enemy, but the good heart rejoices that God has ruled justly.

When we sin by rejoicing in our enemy’s fall, does that mean that God can no longer judge in our favor?

Christian Histo
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Christian Histo

Hi JL, I think you are judging me falsely. The people I love the most are Trump supporters. My father. My friends. My church members. People I really care about. Doing evil. Trump is evil. Support for Trump has done a horrible evil to this country. My goal with the harsh words is one of reproof. My attempts at humor are intended to get Trump supporters to wake out of their blind support for a New York Liberal with a porn star wife and to turn back to Truth. Use of humor to change hearts is both good and biblical.… Read more »

ashv
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ashv

You gotta realise — a lot of people support Trump not because they like him, but because they don’t like folks like you. (I certainly don’t have any desire to be ruled by a tycoon from New York if a better alternative is available. But I respect his success in destroying conservatism and attacking journalists.)

Christian Histo
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Christian Histo

Ashv, having you not like me is something like a badge of honor for me. If you (a person who spouts demonstrably wrong opinions with pretty much every comment) were to in any way like me, I would be confident that I had erred and fallen from the straight path. Your conviction that I am wrong, is the clearest evidence that I am right. Woah to the one who ashv agrees with. Remember when you said Russia was the best example of a country that had not fallen into liberalism? Russia folks…. yes, the one that was communist for most… Read more »

ashv
Guest
ashv

Russia may be a good example, but Poland and Hungary have been better examples this year. Nevertheless: Russia, Poland and Hungary will exist in a recognisable form in 100 years. It’s highly unlikely that the USA will. Russian communism, despite its homicidal destruction, has proven far less deadly than Anglo-American communism.

Christian Histo
Guest
Christian Histo

Less destructive eh? Abortion is widespread. Church attendance is 7%. Alcoholism is widespread. Violence and corruption are everywhere. And poverty is widspread.

Not to mention the 100s of millions killed either directly or indirectly by Stalin and his ilk.

Are you intentionally making statements that can be shown to be wrong or is that just what you do?

Christian Histo
Guest
Christian Histo

And do not pretend that you do not support Trump. You would carry his bags around and laugh at all his dirty jokes if he asked you to.

wtrsims
Member

You’ve attempted humor? Where?

Christian Histo
Guest
Christian Histo

Waa waaa. I knew that joke was coming as soon as I wrote what I did.

How about I attempted mocking of trump supporters who naively (like kids who think Santa is real) thought Trump was the best candidate to take on Hillary. It would be so cute if it was not destroying our country.

Trump is at 42% in the polling average and ou are still arguing that he was the only candidate who can win!

Jennie
Member

Thank you, Christian Histo. I didn’t see that at all. The way you said it here was beautiful, if I may be so bold. I apologize for falsely judging you! I’ve been thinking about this a lot, because I couldn’t understand the angst of some Cruz supporters, but I finally figured it out, I think. I took one foray into politics to stump for Ron Paul. When he didn’t win, I decided not to vote because I didn’t see a real difference between the two final candidates. I thought they were equally evil. I wonder if this parallels what some… Read more »

Krychek_2
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Krychek_2

I would analyze it almost exactly the other way. Trump is an open fascist, likely a Russian agent, who got rich by not paying his workers or his creditors, and who just for good measure is being sued for statutory rape. What’s amazing is that he is up to 42%. Whatever negatives Clinton has pale in comparison to his.

wtrsims
Member

Are you trolling?

Christian Histo
Guest
Christian Histo

Takes one to know one?

wtrsims
Member

Are you trolling?

Takes one to know one?

smh

Christian Histo
Guest
Christian Histo

Haha. Well said. That is true too. Both candidates can thank their stars that the other person is running. Trump would be 20 % behind a decent opponent and Hillary would be 20% behind a decent opponent. It is like both parties combed the country to find the worst possible candidate and succeeded.

wtrsims
Member

Actually, Histo, I’ll grant you that Trump brought in a lot of baggage that the other 16 didn’t have, though that’s a rough generalization because there was baggage. Jeb! was a Bush, and a weak one at that. Fiorina was naggy with an unbearable personality, and besides, running a woman for office as a “conservative” is anything but. Cruz was all-around disliked by everybody but his fans. Etc, etc, etc… So, perhaps in any other election year, a different R nominee would be mopping the floor, but I do believe that we’ve gotten to the point that the Left is… Read more »

wtrsims
Member

Another point that should be brought out is that for a lot of Trump supporters–namely the more intellectual wing of the alt-right–they are loyal to Trump but view him as an instrument and starting point of their counter-revolution, as opposed to its culmination and goal. You could be very right about Trump losing–no denying that–but even so, the fact that someone like Trump, who is saying the things that Trump is saying, could become the R nominee and to the point of turning Ohio and Florida red in the polls is itself seen as a vitctory of sorts. Another positive… Read more »

Christian Histo
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Christian Histo

“Someone like Trump”? A New York Liberal with a porn star wife and Center Left policy positions?

I should be encouraged why?

Did you hear he is pushing for paid maternity leave now? What a hardcore conservative he is! He just out flanked Hillary on the left. He should have picked Sanders as his running mate.

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

Do you remember when Schwartzenegger (sp?) led the Republicans to victory in California in a recall election? His supporters felt betrayed to discover that he governed from the left, and had the social values and beliefs of a movie star who has married into the Kennedys. Who could possibly have foreseen such a thing?

wtrsims
Member

In their defense, they did vote for an Austrian.

Christian Histo
Guest
Christian Histo

Yep. I have thought of that often. Trump is the Schwartzenegger of this year.

Doug Wright
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Doug Wright

May God take her out. Wilson’s praying otherwise or his inever atrimp ,might be i never? never?same donkeys to cheer when bin ladin “”died’, drinking extra beer watching bombs fall all over children in Iraq; but now ‘don’t rejoice’ over this piece of trash. No don’t rejoice but sing the dirge with me ‘a tiaket a tasket pray for a casket’

drewnchick
Member

O, that there were a better connection between your brain and your fingers…

Doug Wright
Guest
Doug Wright

His fingers when voice commands work perfectly well I think

Jonathan
Guest
Jonathan

Someone explain to me how THIS post got ashv, Timothy, 40 acres, AND Eagle-eyed to all make Anti-Black or anti race-mixing comments???

Why does everything have to be blamed on Black people?

And when are these people going to stop posting here? Why do they keep congregating?

Eagle_Eyed
Guest
Eagle_Eyed

Biological race is real, and the denial of this truth is a sin. Hillary is full on board with anti-white racial politics under the inane notion that a diverse country full of Somalians and Guatemalans can maintain the civilization built by white Europeans. This will never happen. Furthermore because every failure of minorities is only further proof of “systemic white racism” in the eyes of the media/academia/government ruling class, as the country turns browner, the descendants of the men who built this country will shoulder more and more of the blame. As one of those descendants, I’m done playing nice.… Read more »

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

Would it be useless to ask you for Scripture in support of your first statement? Especially the second part? Given your premises, one might conclude it is folly. But sin? I love European civilization because it gave me gorgeous cathedrals, Bach fugues, Italian art, and the whole canon of western literature. It gave me trial by jury, cool science, Socratic dialogue, and Yorkshire pudding. It made probable my birth into a Christian family and my training in a Christian world view, which I do not define as pride of birth but rather a state of mind that puts others first,… Read more »

Eagle_Eyed
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Eagle_Eyed

Fair enough, race denialism is in many cases folly instead of a willful act of defiance. I was hastily assuming people had access to the same information and experiences I have, which obviously isn’t the case. Yet there are certainly many people–otherwise intelligent and educated–who remain ardent anti-racists and race-denialists in spite of contrary evidence and use anti-racist presuppositions to blame whites for the troubles of minorities and therefore their denialism leads them to commit other sins, levy false accusations, promote unjust remedies, etc. Also remember scripture does not decry “racism” as sinful. The term is a 20th century neologism… Read more »

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

I think racist is not a useful word except as an insult. When a word comes to mean only “people whose outlook I think is deplorable,” it has lost any value. But while I tend to avoid the word, I believe there are people whose attitudes towards those of other races is sinful. Doug has covered this much better than I can. I do not believe that noticing racial differences is sinful, although I think our perceptions are often inaccurate, are based on small samples, and overly reflect our personal experience. I don’t care very much about anyone’s private attitude,… Read more »

Eagle_Eyed
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Eagle_Eyed

You’re not totally on the wrong track here but you need to be careful. The point isn’t that whites never mistreat non-whites or that American society has never had unwise or unjust legal structures; rather it is that incorrect notions about human beings combined with a liberal-controlled social system has disastrous consequences for whites, their sovereignty, and their freedoms. What’s more relevant to the state of racial politics today–the violent arson of black churches by white Alabamans in the 1960’s or the violent attacks on white cops by black criminals and their enablers (BLM) in 2016? Which political figure has… Read more »

Eagle_Eyed
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Eagle_Eyed

Furthermore, “racial amalgamation” was only one sin I accused Clinton of supporting, and the only reason I listed out her sins was to highlight her impending doom and the appropriateness of imprecations. An imprecation is a call for an enemy to fail, to be cursed, to be judged, etc. so that God’s will may triumph over evil. As an example, may Clinton’s aim to make it easier for abortionists to murder unborn children with scissors and vacuums be thwarted–and if God strikes her down before she can become president who is to question Him? This is the meat of the… Read more »

insanitybytes22
Member

“An imprecation is a call for an enemy to fail, to be cursed, to be judged, etc. so that God’s will may triumph over evil.”

And grace is a recognition of the gift we have all been given. So, “For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.” Therefore cursing others and calling down God’s judgment upon them is rather unwise.

ashv
Guest
ashv

You are the last person who should be talking about what counts as wise or unwise judgement.

Christian Histo
Guest
Christian Histo

No. You are the last person. Literally the last person. Maybe the last mammal.

insanitybytes22
Member

Lol! Now that’s the pot calling the kettle black. But if you won’t listen to my wisdom, at least listen to Wilson, he really does know of which he speaks.

JP Stewart
Member

Too bad the psalmists never read “The Gospel of ME” (quite the pun, I must say).

Capndweeb
Guest
Capndweeb

Your analogy of trees to human beings is in error. Different kinds of trees are different species, which are unable to interbreed and create fertile offspring. You cannot cross a pine tree with a palm tree. People of different “races” are on a continuum which we have arbitrarily based on skin color. Yes, there are minor differences in physiology, but we are all one species. More importantly, we all share common ancestry and, more importantly, a common Creator.

ashv
Guest
ashv

Why do I keep posting here? Because I used to be a conservative but have since discovered that there’s much more to the right of that position than I had been taught, and it’s more consistent with nature and Scripture. Most of my life I have seen Christians shackled to the political left with the chains of fear of being called racist. I want to see churches and families that are free to understand and pursue that which is good without having to stay within the bounds of what their deadly enemies allow them to think. I don’t harbour particularly… Read more »

Jonathan
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Jonathan

I’ve taken you as pro-slavery and pro-segregation, and you say a lot of things very close to anti-intermarriage (while not saying it’s universally sinful). You’ve defended the southern slavery of Black persons and said that Confederate slaveowners have nothing to repent of, said that it was not sinful to participate in their slavery, and said that emancipation was neither wise nor just. You say things like “Bull Connor did nothing wrong” and “This problem all started since blacks became free. Black lives used to be expensive” and said that your response to a Black descendant of slaves who had been… Read more »

ashv
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ashv

My point is that my views on race aren’t founded on an emotional reaction, but on the evidence that Black Americans aren’t capable of building or maintaining a civilisation at the same level as Whites, and that if they are going to live together peaceably in the same country, this will necessarily involve Whites ruling over and providing for Blacks, including White suppression of Black violence. (This can be seen in sub-Saharan Africa as well: Empire of Dust, etc.) I don’t think this condition is permanent (in particular I’m reminded of the recent cartoon with the Roman complaining about how… Read more »

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

I wish this could be rephrased as “in a democracy such as ours, what do we do with a permanent underclass in which the less intelligent, unable to compete for access to high quality education or well-paying jobs, are going to be prone to social pathologies that endanger themselves and society at large?”

ashv
Guest
ashv

Well, I think it’d be a problem even without democracy. But a solution would be more likely to be arrived at. (For an entertaining discussion of this, you might read this essay: http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2009/11/dire-problem-and-virtual-option.html I don’t find his science-fiction solution plausible or palatable, but it’s an interesting thought experiment.)

Jonathan
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Jonathan

You’re speaking from historical ignorance. Until about 1000 years ago, a number of African civilizations (including in Mali, Ghana, Congo, Zimbabwe, and Ethiopia) had built and maintained civilizations far more meaningfully than northern Europeans ever had. And the difference between, say, Greeks and Scandinavians, or Romans and German barbarians, was vast. Not to mention the difference between Ethiopians and Igbo and Zulu. You can’t just create a mostly scientifically meaningless concept like skin color and then claim it shows sweeping things about all civilization. There were quite clear historical/geographical reasons why high agricultural output and the advanced capacity for city-building… Read more »

ashv
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ashv

Until about 1000 years ago, a number of African civilizations (including in Mali, Ghana, Congo, Zimbabwe, and Ethiopia) had built and maintained civilizations far more meaningfully than northern Europeans ever had. I believe the scientific name for this view is “WE WUZ KANGZ“. Obviously the USA would be much better off now if it had never imported any Africans at all. But it’s no use wishing the present situation away. Centuries of Roman colonialism and oppression, tragically, turned Northern Europeans into civilised people. Fortunately we know better now and won’t subject Africa to such depredations any longer. Yes, there were… Read more »

Jonathan
Guest
Jonathan

So Leopold can completely destroy society in the Congo, kill 10,000,000 people and maim/debilitate just as many more, suck all the natural resources and profit out he can while decimating their infrastructure for four decades, and if a wasteland of a society continues after that fact, it’s all their fault? Obviously, Leopold isn’t the last bad thing to happen to or in Congo. We could keep going with this historical exploration. But you simply completely ignored that White domination and horrific White violence had largely CAUSED Congo’s present situation while calling on that exact remedy to fix it. And no,… Read more »

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

I agree with you on the Congo. I was taught that Leopold was so incredibly wicked that even his fellow imperialists put a stop to him. Wasn’t the missionary activity directed at the Anglo-Saxons also the result of the pope sending St. Augustine of Canterbury? The story we were fed, perhaps in error, was that the pope (or perhaps the emperor, I can’t remember) seeing beautiful blond children in the marketplace, asked who they were. “Angles, my Lord.” “Non Angli sed Angeli,” replied the pope (or emperor) who was so disturbed by pagan angels that he sent a missionary forthwith.

Jonathan
Guest
Jonathan

Yes, I’ve heard the same story, though rather than being “disturbed”, the pope was a bit flippant about the whole thing.

And yes, St. Augustine of Canterbury was also part of the effort. I put more weight into what the Irish monks were doing, but both did have some degree of influence and worked among different peoples, so their efforts were to some degree complimentary.

I would separate a Roman missionary sent out by the Church as quite a different thing than “Centuries of Roman colonialism and oppression”, which is what ashv had attributed Anglo-Saxon civilization to.

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

On the other hand, it is probably the only Latin pun that everybody knows, so that is worth something.

Jonathan
Guest
Jonathan

I must have been late to the party. I literally only learned it a month or so ago. Perhaps I had heard it before, but it didn’t stick.

Jonathan
Guest
Jonathan

And, btw, when you use mockery like “WE WUZ KANGZ”, do you realize how that goes beyond your already openly vocal support for slavery, segregation, apartheid, and White domination, and perhaps might suggest that you really do have negative feelings towards Black people in addition to merely supporting all those interesting political policies?

Pastor Wilson, if being to the left of ashv makes you a “moderate”, then I shudder at the thought of where the right is on this issue today.

ashv
Guest
ashv

You discern anger and contempt correctly, but it’s directed at people like you.

Jonathan
Guest
Jonathan

Either you’re a very poor discussion partner, or you’re a liar.

You are replying directly to my question about your statement, “WE WUZ KINGZ”. If there is anger and contempt in your statement, as you admit, then it is obviously directed towards the people who can say, “WE” in that context.

Of course, perhaps your excuse is that you meant some other statement, and not the one which I was speaking directly about. But that would be nonsensical as an answer to a question I asked you directly about THAT statement.

40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN
Guest
40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN

Until about 1000 years ago, a number of African civilizations (including in Mali, Ghana, Congo, Zimbabwe, and Ethiopia) had built and maintained civilizations far more meaningfully than northern Europeans ever had.

So what happened to them?

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

They were destroyed by the white Christians in the Democratic party.

Jonathan
Guest
Jonathan

Literally every civilization has its rise and fall. The European, Asian, and New World kingdoms of that period aren’t around anymore either. As for what happened after 1500 or so, I already explained that in the comment you are replying to: “There were quite clear historical/geographical reasons why high agricultural output and the advanced capacity for city-building and conquest that came with it developed first in China and the Fertile Crescent, and why they then spread laterally first through east Asia and southern Europe before eventually reaching the rest of Europe. When Northern European and Sub-Saharan African persons first began… Read more »

Capndweeb
Guest
Capndweeb

Interesting to read the comments below as folks bite and devour each other over whether Trump is evil with a capital “E” or the savior of white America. I think both he and Hillary are exactly what we have asked for, longed for, and what we (as a nation) deserve. I think the Lord in His infinite wisdom knows that we are a stiff-necked people who will not repent of our pride and arrogance and turn away from our sins until such time as we have dug ourselves a hole big enough and deep enough to bury us and all… Read more »

ashv
Guest
ashv

Or that “we” are actually two different groups of people that won’t ever get along together, regardless of ruler.

Capndweeb
Guest
Capndweeb

Gotta disagree, ashv, since you used the word “ever.” We who believe in Jesus Christ will indeed get along when Jesus is our King and their will be no divisions based on the degree to which any of us are beige.

ashv
Guest
ashv

Sure. “in the foreseeable future”, then.

Christian Histo
Guest
Christian Histo

If there really is a Bizarro universe in which everything in this world exists but in its opposite form, I would probably really get along with Bizarro-ashv.

I can picture him. Insightful, thoughtful, and making statements that are hard to refute. That would be a cool dude.

LittleRedMachine
Guest
LittleRedMachine

disagree. As flawed and imperfect, Trump is a far better choice than anyone we’ve had since Reagan. Now, will he fold under the pressure of globalism/tower of babalism that infects the political trajectory of our nation…. I pray God sutains him…. an egotistical jerk, though, has a far-better chance humanly-speaking than a ‘nice’ upstanding satanic mormon like Mitt Romney.

Christopher
Member

“Trump is a far better choice than anyone we’ve had since Reagan.”

That’s conditionaly true depending on who ‘we’ is.

Capndweeb
Guest
Capndweeb

What if both candidates are masquerading as angels of light?

drewnchick
Member

A most excellent perspective, Pastor. And yes, it’s easy to get this one wrong. The whole lineup of Biblical principles to love one’s enemy, do good to those who persecute, pray for, give water to…your ENEMY. It’s altogether too easy to miss that as we delight in their downfall and/or pray for their destruction. Toeing the line between imprecations and supplications is exceedingly difficult when the object is one’s enemies. God help us all!

Ken Harris
Guest
Ken Harris

How do we respond?

LittleRedMachine
Guest
LittleRedMachine

thank you for this. I need the rebuke.