Letters to Help You Fritter Away Some Time

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Paedocommunion Question

A question about paedocommunion (oh joy): Having not been to Moscow, how does paedocommunion function in CREC churches? Is it feeding the elements to practically-newborn infants, who have no idea what they’re eating or doing? Or is it merely to young kids who can walk and talk and annunciate some basic Christian creeds and understandings? Conversely, do non-paedocommunion Presbyterian churches typically withhold communion from such young kids AND infants, or only infants? (Do they only allow pre-teens and up to partake? etc.) I am always very confused reading arguments for and against these practices without any understanding of the actual precise line of division in children’s age/maturity…

Michael

Michael, among those who do not practice it, it does vary from church to church. Some admit children to the Table when they can answer a few basic questions, and others when they have memorized the Heidelberg. At Christ Church, we discourage giving the elements to infants in buckets, but because our children worship together with us, they begin participating early on—around a year-old, say. I mean lifting hands, saying amen, and so forth. When they notice the tray going by and everyone else partaking, they want to partake also. At that point, you are teaching them something, whatever you do. If you say no, you are teaching them that they are out. If you say yes, you are teaching them are part of the body of Christ, which is what we want them to internalize.

All Tuckered Out

Hi there pastor Wilson!
I heard your first “sermon” so to speak just the other day on Tucker Carlson’s . Amazing! Thank God for people like you Sir! I’m Polish Canadian who resides in Canada for the last 35 years. What I’m witnessing here is almost movie rewinding of history as of what happened in Eastern Communist Europe 100 years ago and looks like that garbage is coming back in North America. You probably already guessed that I’m Catholic and you are correct but our Catholic leaders are spineless at the present! Would really like you to run for the Pope office, Sir :o) and maybe bring back unity to the Church.
Really like your up to the point clear preaching.
I have only one question . How do you deal with John 6 ??? And the Eucharist . The Thanksgiving, the clear order of our Lord in chapter 6 of the gospel of St. John keep me in my Catholic faith. Otherwise I would be Orthodox . . . also because Eucharist.
God Bless to you and your Moscow community!

Jacek

Jacek, what we do with John 6 is believe and practice it. We observe communion weekly, and partake of the body and blood of Christ by means of faith alone. As for me running for pope . . . unity is not the word that springs to mind.
I just listened to you Tucker Carlson podcast. You are Spot On!
Thank you so much.

Stephen

Stephen, thanks very much. God was very kind.
I saw you on Tucker Carlson and was intrigued. Great interview! What version of the Bible do you study? I have been looking for the most authentic version that is easy to read. I have narrowed it down to the 1611 KJV and the 1560 Geneva Bible. Although the Geneva seems more difficult to read. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.

Mario

Mario, I preaching from the KJV, and use it as my base translation for reading. But I resort to other translations from time to time just to mix it up.
Thanks for your bold defense of our faith in Christ on your Tucker interview. Just watched it. I really think Tucker is searching, no longer just a maverick journalist. His most recent interviews suggest he is getting warmer to a personal walk with Jesus as Savior and Lord, not just being Episcopalian. I pray this is so.
My wife and I are followers of Jesus. I grew up as one of those unlikely MK’s you mentioned, and found the Christ of the gospel anyway or maybe in spite of my growing up experience everywhere; US, London, Lagos amid Biafran War, etc. Served as a missionary pilot in Mexico, then founded a small ministry, Brigade Air, to introduce kids to technical ministry in aviation where there are no roads. My wife is 31 year Christian school teacher, hanging on as salt and light in a too often political place in recent years, sorry to say.
I will be 65 next month, and since we moved to Raleigh, NC in 2020 amid Covid, have been struggling to find a real church here. Not sure if most are polishing the brass on the Titanic, or the brass on the buckle of the Bible belt here, or maybe it’s the same thing. Either way, mainstream churches here tucked tail and closed, with wimps for leaders, etc. We need someone like you around here, but can’t find one.
In your interview, you mentioned your “friends.” Got any near us you could recommend? Tried searching through Master’s website, CMA, TGC, Acts 29, and others, still striking out. Worst experience was at SBC. (Durham has gone woke).
We need to be attached, serve, contribute in a true church here somewhere, and are weary. Never had to search like this before. Our fellowship was with one of my supporting churches for many years before relocating.
Thank you for standing strong and faithful, and I would love to support a man like you in a church near us, if you happen to know one.
Together in Christ,

Bruce

Bruce, thanks for the kind words. Try this.
I just watched the interview with Tucker and I want to say thanks to Pastor Wilson for his clear (winsome?) description of Christian Nationalism and his addressing of the fact that our hope is not in political solutions. I also appreciated his addressing of the media’s role in not covering the positives that are occurring that point to real change coming from the ground up. God bless

Russell

Russell, thank you.

Purchasing a Cantus?

Is your Cantus of Psalms with music available for purchase? I cannot find it on your website. My husband and I have begun praying the psalms together, but we only have a Psalter with plainsong accompaniment which (for me) is not helpful to easily remember them. I thought to look up the tunes your congregation uses, but cannot find them. Thank you. God bless and defend you, your family, and your ministry.

Tess

Tess, thank you. Here you go.

Objectivity

Baptist here trying to come to terms with your views on the objectivity of the covenant for all members of the visible church. You believe that anyone who receives the ordinances places himself in a covenantal relationship with the Lord, which obliges him to live as a Christian. So far, this makes perfect sense. But what obligations does this then place on God, if the man is in fact unregenerate? I.e., what does God undertake to do for the man in response to his baptism and participation in the Lord’s Supper, despite his lack of saving faith? Does this not effectively set up a “covenant of works” between that man and God?
My second question is about infant baptism. Suppose you baptize your son on the eighth day, and the Lord graciously saves him at age 15. Prior to this, he was unregenerate, and had therefore not repented and believed the gospel. This means he had been living an unbelieving, unrepentant life for his first 15 years, placing him in violation of the covenant, and bringing him under greater judgment that whole time. Why would you want to place your child under that, when the alternative seems uniformly better? He could just be baptized at 15, and avoid the compounded sin of violating the covenant for so many years?

Daniel

Daniel, as to your first question, God never has any unfulfilled obligations. What God undertakes to do is bring him under the hearing of the Word, present him with the sacraments, provide for him a godly upbringing, etc., all of which He does. As to your second question, the Westminster Confession teaches that the grace of baptism is not confined to the moment of administration, which means that when it was converted, it was in part the grace of his baptism kicking in. It would therefore not make sense to have withheld it.

That Stripper Pole

Please ask Pastor Doug to comment on the Lindell controversy over the stripper pole incident. If he has already commented, would you please share the link with me. Thank you

Terri

Terri, it is unclear to me what has happened in the aftermath of that incident re: Driscoll/Lindell—conflicting accounts. But I can say that the fact of that guy doing his act at a Christian men’s conference represents a diseased state of heart, mind, and soul.

The Sabbath Start

Sabbath Dinners: A general question regarding the new Sabbath
Doug, thanks for your New Sabbath message from a couple months ago. I have come to accept Sunday as a true sabbath, the new sabbath now that Christ is making all things new. I’ll be direct.
It seems that the Jews viewed a day cycle as starting/ending at sundown, and not at “midnight,” this is referenced indirectly in scripture; “evening and morning were the first day” and all that . . . my question is, would the Sabbath properly be observed from “sundown on Saturday” to “sundown on Sunday”, rather than midnight to midnight, respectively??
Some have called my question pharisaical, but seeing as the Sabbath is at least in part a moral commandment, it seems to me to be a fair question. In any case, thanks

Logan

Logan, yes, a fair question, and a practical one. Yes, midnight to midnight was the Roman way, and the Jews started the next day at sundown. When it comes to our observance of the sabbath, our family observes it from 6 pm Saturday night to 6 pm Sunday night.

Room for Nuance Interview

Watched your Room for Nuance interview. As one of the evangelical Christian who wondered during BLM and the lockdowns if the whole Christian world around me had gone mad, or if it was just me, thank you. Thank you for writing to your target audience. There may not be many of us all in one place, but there are a lot of us in a lot of places.
In Christ,

JS

JS, thank you. I know that there is actually a multitude of saints in that position.

Restrictions on Chaplains?

Context: My family has enjoyed the resources you provide for many years.
Content: I’ve served faithfully and without compromise for 21 years as an Army Chaplain. Concerning Ch. 10 of the text “How to Exasperate your Wife,” I’m not sure the comments toward Chaplain Denominations (by extension Chaplain Endorsers) are as honest as it could be. I can’t speak for those denominations that I have no real interaction with.
Multiple endorsers have in writing their concerns about women in combat roles. We have a very thorough statement on marriage, homosexuality, and women in combat.
Please note the link to my own Endorser (Associated Gospel Churches):
Thanks again for your time.
In Christ

Steven

Steven, thank you, and that is good to see. But the real issue would be whether the chaplains would be permitted to teach or preach in terms of these commitments.

Unbelief and the Void

I just finished watching “Religulous” hosted by Bill Maher. From the same producers as Borat so viewer discretion is advised!
But it was fascinating to watch it after finishing a Canon + teaching series done by Greg Bahnsen called “Basic Training for Defending the Faith” because I was able to see exactly the errors that Bahnsen said would be there in the unbeliever.
It’s a strange thing how even a raging unbeliever in real time needs to depend on the fruit of God . . . (as Bahnsen structured it)—moral absolutes, uniformity of nature, universals and laws, personal freedom and dignity.
It was striking to me how much faith Bill had about his own beliefs . . . it was doubly strange cause a lot of what he was bashing were truly perversions of the truth itself.
It’s one of those documentaries I could see being a fruitful film to engage with at NSA.
At the very least, this documentary showed to me the fruitfulness of sound discipleship. It was sad seeing the Christians who were chosen to be interacted with in the documentary to be so antithetical to the type of Christian I see Moscow desiring to form. If only he interacted with you or anyone in this camp . . .

Samuel

Samuel, thank you.

Who Is the King?

I’ve been wondering, who is King and why? From reading I’ve done it sounds like God is king in the Old Testament and then when the kingdom of heaven comes in Jesus that Jesus inherits and establishes the kingdom on earth. Then in 1 Corinthians 15:24, it says that Jesus will give the kingdom back to God. Why the constant changes? What is the significance of kingship for the heavenly kingdom and for our lives? Why is the Holy Spirit never called King (as far as I know)? Thanks

Jacob

Jacob, God is always and at all times the absolute sovereign. But in the Old Testament, the nations were governed by mediatorial princes, most of them fallen and corrupt. When Christ came, the God/man, in the resurrection, He was given universal dominion, and is now the Mediatorial Prince, and we reign together in Him. At the end, He will transfer this kingdom over to God the Father so that God may be all, in all.

Inquiring Minds Want to Know

Curious as a classical homeschooling mother, whose oldest child is set to take Introductory Logic next year, why the cover shows a dragon in the brain and a serpent in the minds eye?

Lehman

The point was to represent intellectual imagination—which would be taking something like a reptile and building it into a mythical creature in your mind. And that would also be our representation of what it is like to build arguments. On top of that, the seraphim are heavenly dragons, with six wings, worshiping God alongside the cherubim, which are winged bulls. So it is also a biblically-informed imaginative act.

Deracinated Christian Nationalism

While I agree with Christian Nationalism i must forward this tidbit from a Yale Professor. VIA YALE
See also Zorach v. Clauson, 343 U.S. 306, 313 (1952)(“We are a religious people whose institutions presuppose a Supreme Being. We guarantee the freedom to worship as one chooses. We make room for as wide a variety of beliefs and creeds as the spiritual needs of man deem necessary. We sponsor an attitude on the part of government that shows no partiality to any one group and that lets each flourish according to the zeal of its adherents and the appeal of its dogma.”)

Michael

Michael, yes. And note the date. This is part of the drift away from the Christian consensus, and toward the stance that says everyone should worship the god that they have configured in their own minds . . . whatever you conceive him/her/it to be.
General question regarding Proverbs, and how we should view them: In the church I used to attend, I was told that the book of Proverbs were, generally speaking, full of maxims, and not necessarily promises from God. By this I mean, that statements made in the book of Proverbs should be considered generally true so far as it goes, but we can’t hold to them necessarily in every circumstance as God promising A if we do B. To some extent, that makes sense, and there are some clear examples where I think that’s valid.
The question I posed to them, and I will now to you, Pastor, is this: how do we know which sayings in Proverbs are maxims, and which are promises? In particular for myself, I want to know how to treat Proverbs 22:6—”Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.” It seems like a promise to me, but I was told it was not. Thoughts?

Brandon

Brandon, on the topic of child rearing, you have to combine it with all those other proverbs that say that a wastrel child is a shame to his parents. If it is just a matter of the luck of the draw, why the shame? So I take that proverb as a maxim, but I also place it in the context of all the other places where Scripture talks about child rearing.

Brother Down

Just wanted to say, thanks for your involvement in Brother Down’s production of Old Paths, New Feet. I discovered this venerable album while feverish and it got me through a hard day. In particular I couldn’t stop listening to Thee, O God, Yes, Thee We Praise (Psalm 75). With the blessings of Canon Press I used this song recently as the background music to a video where I hand bound a Gospel of John in the World English Bible translation, a license-free Byzantine Priority translation in spoken English.
Would love to see new albums along these lines in the future!
Blessings,

Martyn

Martyn, thanks. And yes, that is a great album.

To Be Followed Up

In open letter comments on 4/16/24, you responded to one with, “I believe that we are far too interested in ourselves, and that this contributes to many problems.” This struck a nerve—much more I think could be said on this—any plans along those lines or have you (or other good sources) already done so and I just missed it?
Thanks-

Dave

Dave, yes. That would be a good thing to develop further.

Theonomy

This is not related to a single blog post, but if I had to assign it to one, I would put it under the post “Theonomy Is a Many-Splendored Thing.” I have been recently tasked to write a researched thesis paper for my English class, and I have decided to write mine on theonomy, and how it is necessary for a Christian with consistent theology to be a theonomist. In my research, I have seen much ado made by critics of theonomy about Reconstructionism, which, if I understand correctly, is simply the Mosaic Law copy-pasted into modern times. Do you know of any resources that can give an extensive explanation of Reconstructionism and General Equity? Much thanks.
PS
Would you describe Rushdoony, Van Til, and Bahnsen as Recontructionists?

Peter

Peter, I would start with ByThis Standard by Bahnsen. And yes, Rushdoony and Bahnsen were both reconstructionists. Van Til was not, but the recons were heavily dependent on him.

Critiquing the Evangelicals

I sent this to Canon Plus, but they said I should rather send it here.
Doug Wilson is always critiquing the Evangelicals. I’m just wondering what an evangelical is? Does Doug (and I presume everyone else at Canon Plus) dislike all Evangelicals. Does he dislike the denomination, or just those that represent it currently? What’s the difference between Evangelical and Baptist or non-denominational? Is it just an America thing, or is it a global thing? What exactly did the Evangelicals do? As far as I can tell from the critiques at Canon Plus, Evangelicals kinda wavy.
Sorry for all the questions, maybe I got here a bit late.
Regards

Louw

Louw, our critiques are offered from within the movement. We are evangelicals who are opposed to many of the innovations and corruptions that have been introduced into the evangelical movement. But I am, after all, a minister in the CREC (Communion of Reformed Evangelical Churches).

More on Emeth

I am from Yorkshire, UK. I just wanted to drop you a line and say how helpful your blog on Emeth has been.
In my small group meeting recently we got on to discussing the subject of Emeth and the ‘problematic’ issues it raises. Your blog has been very insightful in helping me to think through some of these things.
Thank you

Malc

Malc, thanks very much.

Objective Feminine Beauty

You have mentioned the objectivity of beauty, including the objective beauty of a woman’s appearance. You have backed this by multiple biblical references where it speak of various woman as beautiful (Sarah, Rachel, Abigail, etc.). I struggle with this to a point because I was idolatrous of women and objectified them by ranking against a worldly standard of beauty in my youth. I sought to find my worth by the attention I could get from a girl high on that standard.
Clearly this was wrong in a multitude of ways and not just my belief in an objective standard. My standard was flawed since the world’s standard is both sinful and changing.
Certainly there is objective beauty demonstrated by the references you mentioned and the fact that God is the most beautiful. However, I feel that the highest physical beauty of a woman must be more like a targets bullseye than a rank list. The bullseye possess an area large enough that all women could enter it but many miss the mark due to the effects of sin. Natural effects from Adam’s fall like the weak eyes of Leah or the effects of age or the consequences of choices like laziness or gluttony. The difference in beauty within that bullseye would then be subjective to the current or future husband who should aim to make his wife the center of the bullseye.
Just as Christ has made His bride more beautiful than all other peoples by His love for her that removed the effects of sin and centered upon her, a husband set his wife or at least her highest potential unmarred by the consequences of sin as the center of the bullseye, the most beautiful among all other women.
Would you agree with that or ought a husband acknowledging that other women are more physically beautiful than his wife?

Stephen

Stephen, you are right that rankings of beauty are more varied than, say, the results of a foot race. In a race, somebody comes in first. But to compare the beauty of two beautiful women would be absurd. Only God knows the answer, and He is not telling. But with that said, I believe that a husband could acknowledge that a woman was more beautiful than his wife, but he also needs to be of a mind that said beauty was nothing to him. She can be attractive without him being attracted.

The Howerton Uproar

Thank you for bringing up the issue of Josh Howerton. I’ve seen much of the uproar from Gregoire and really wanted someone to push back on her characterization. I’ve watched her for years and she has gone from a fairly decent biblical view of sex to completely falling off the deep end. And, when she criticizes Howerton for not being an expert on sex, is she claiming she is? Her expertise comes from starting a blog and writing a few books. Hardly the qualifications of an “expert.”
It shouldn’t come as a surprise from a woman who keeps her husband well submitted to her (if you read anything on her blog from him), but it’s scary to see what, as you say, an outsider can cause within a church.
Before seeing the outcry, I didn’t know anything about Howerton and, if he’s like most megachurch pastors, I likely don’t agree with his theology. But, the issue, as you rightly point out, is the church allowing itself to be influenced by outsiders, especially those online. Have a backbone as a church and don’t let society dictate to you.
Oh, and one other thing about Gregoire . . . her daughter’s even worse.

Kevin

Kevin, thank you.
I was reading Wokescolds Circling Over Dallas, and for reasons I will hopefully make clear without stumbling to my point, it brought to mind something I’ve been meaning to ask you for a while now. I will openly admit up front, that since around or shortly after the start of the COVID fiasco, I have not been attending a local church service frequently. That’s probably putting it too lightly, I frankly have barely stepped foot in a church on a Sunday outside of a few holiday services attended with in-laws before family gatherings. This was not entirely to blame on COVID, although it certainly didn’t help. To simplify a long story, I was awakened to Christ in a local church during an Easter service in 2017. I was baptized less than a year later in March of 2018. I quickly became involved in said church, serving on the greeting team with regular frequency. That church then went through what I would classify as a messy breakup; essentially the lead pastor was forced out because from what I could understand, most of the staff had large issues with the way his wife ran the show. He was then replaced by a younger woman as the executive pastor and a token lead teaching pastor position thrown to another younger man that was on staff. My family happened to have made friends with both of these people and their families, and then there was another breakup where the teaching pastor was fired because of some leadership disagreements.
So my first church experience as a now new Christian, within a few short years, involved a lot of messiness and subsequent awkwardness attending this church and still being friends with a pastor fired from this church. And then throw in the COVID fiasco, and the caving to pressure and shutting down services, masking, distancing, etc. I quickly became disillusioned, and I gave up altogether.
I have a wife and two girls, and I know that being involved in a local church is something we must be doing, and I should be leading that charge as head of our household. But every church we’ve gone to feels like the same thing, which your Wokescolds article made me think of: preaching that is basically a motivational speech or a “TED talk” with a few Bible verses sprinkled in. Making sure they get some humor in, to keep everyone entertained. They’re all an inch deep and a mile wide, tiptoeing around on eggshells making sure they don’t upset the rainbow people or the COVIDians, etc. There is nothing really of substance anywhere. We have now moved our kids to a classical Christian Academy, and I feel much more connected to that than any church I’ve been around. But I know that is not a substitute.
What is the right play here? Do I just suck it up, and attend somewhere with weak preaching and a weak Gospel for the sake of my wife and kids? I have no problem feeding myself with the abundant resources that are available now to help grow my faith, but I know that Sunday worship portion is a critical piece that I don’t want to be ignoring. I searched the CREC website for churches, but there is nothing within 250 miles of me (Fargo, ND).
I apologize for the length of this question, and as always I appreciate your content.
Thank you,

Mark

Mark, my advice to you would be to start asking around. There will be parents you respect at the classical Christian school you are now a part of, and you should ask them for recommendations. But find the best church you can, and start going.

The Sinfulness of Desire

I am grateful for how God has used Christ Church and its ministries to help build up and edify the body of Christ. My family has profited in many ways.
A friend recently sent me the Crosspolitic show with Pastor Wilson and Jared Moore from the SBC regarding homosexuality and desire. I had a couple thoughts and questions I wanted to share, and I would of course welcome any further thoughts and/or correction you might offer.
In James 1:14, what comes first: the desire or the temptation? The desire is the source of the temptation. The experience of temptation is a red light on the dashboard of our souls. It is saying, “Danger! There is something you have assigned too much value to, and you are on the precipice of being drug away to it.” Each person has different desires. Different things say, “Vain glory!” to different people. This leads to the further progression of sin spoken of in verse 15.
Ex: At a stop light I see a red Ferrari. The wrong thought would be: I want it, I assign too much worth to it, I think I deserve it, and that could lead me to following the car and stealing it. All theoretical, of course, for the sake of the point I’m trying to articulate.
The right thought would be: Praise God that other person has that car, and I hope they are worshiping God with their money . . . Enjoy!
But Neutral desires cannot give birth to sinful desires/actions. If they could we would be in major trouble.
Have you heard people say, “You are innocent at the first look, it is the second look that is sinful”? Well, like begets like. Why did they take the second look? Innocent looks don’t beget sinful looks.
If one experiences what the world calls temptation, then one is already guilty. That person is already being dragged away by sinful desires. We need God at the first impulse.
Another aspect is that test/trial or temptation can be translated from the same Greek word. Trials and tests come at us, whereas temptations come from within us. If temptations originated outside of us, we’d always be a victim of circumstances, and repentance wouldn’t be as forthcoming. That is how indwelling sin tries to get autonomy from God. It blames others/circumstances.
1 Corinthians 10:13 should be “test/trial”, not “temptation”.
Hebrews 4:15 should also be “tested”. Christ was “tested”, not “tempted”. The tests in the wilderness came at Him and found nothing sinful within to lure (tempt) Him. Christ did not experience “temptation” in a James 1:14 sense, for He did not have any evil desires to tempt Him. Christ was not tempted with homosexuality.
The example of the married man lusting after the beautiful is not a good example, because heterosexual desire can be redeemed. The unmarried man can marry a woman he finds desirable. The married man can become free to marry (your example of his wife dying in a car accident). But a homosexual desire is always wrong and against God and His natural order.
I tried hard to be concise, but it is still long. Thank you for taking the time. I am grateful for your fight for truth.
Respectfully,

Jessi

Jessi, yes. I agree that Christ was not tempted in certain ways, i.e. to those sins that would require a previous career of sinning. And I agree that homosexual desires are disordered and sinful, requiring the grace of justification. But they are not “a sin,” as in, a sin acted on.

Flag Talk

“You have shown a picture of the American flag flying underneath the Christian flag. Don’t you think that many would find that disrespectful? Isn’t that unnecessarily provocative? Yes, but many of the people who would claim to find that disrespectful have no trouble at all when people on the left burn the American flag, or pee on it.”
Or, I might add, wave the Ukraine flag on the floor of Congress, while American flags drape the coffins of service members . . .

Guymon

Guymon, yes. The modern political game generates many macabre juxtapositions.

Technical Truth

In your Fire on the Mountain series, you said that it is wrong for us to say things that are “technically true.” But what if I don’t want to give certain information? What if my wife is ill and doesn’t need to know certain things that would stress her out in her situation, like a broken roof. Would it be wrong to say something technically true and change the topic so she doesn’t probe, and then I tell her if required after I have fixed the roof.
Not every pretense is a lie. “And they approached the village where they were going, and He [Jesus] acted as though He were going farther” (Luke 24:28).
If I’m using words that are precise and intended to obfuscate, not to harm, but to withhold information that I don’t want to share, would that be wrong? Is it my responsibility how the hearer processes my words that are technically true?
Thanks,

J

J, I agree that not every pretense is bearing false witness. But something technically true could be false witness, not that it necessarily has to be. “I thought the sermon this week was much better. That pastor came to services sober.”

Passing Info Along

I’ve appreciated your ministry from afar for going on three decades—though I somehow missed you during my time on the Palouse (I graduated from Wazzu in 1998). I’m the founder/director of Abort73. If that name is not familiar to you, I hope you’ll check it out. But I’m actually writing about a different website: PlannedAbortion.net. I published it last week. If any pastor in the nation could appreciate its vision, I suspect that would be you. At the very least, I want to make you aware of it. If you think it worthy of a podcast mention, I’d be much obliged.

Michael

Michael, hoo, boy.

Grounds for Divorce

The Westminster Confession (24:5,6) outlines two permissible reasons for divorce: adultery and desertion. Paul seems to imply in 1 Corinthians 7:15 that the deserter must be an unbeliever. Wanye Grudem and others have argued that restricting legitimate divorces to just those two reasons is more narrow than Paul intended. He uses the phrase “in such cases” in 1 Corinthians 7 to justify his exegesis (https://www.waynegrudem.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Grounds-for-divorce-paper.08.docx). He is specifically wanting to carve out exceptions for abuse and presumedly abandonment by a backslidden believer. I’m curious what your take is on this approach and how would you defend your view?

Wondering Mind

WM, if we are talking about genuine abuse, and not simply claims of abuse, then I believe that would be grounds for divorce. But this is not an additional category, but rather an application of one of the existing categories to a unique situation. A man could desert his wife by skipping town, but he can also desert her by beating her up every weekend. That would be a rejection of her. And if such a man is a professing believer, the church should address the situation by excommunicating him, thus making it a case of a believer/unbeliever.
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James
James
7 months ago

If I ever get married and have children, I would tell my son that his mother is the most beautiful woman in the world.

Ken B
Ken B
7 months ago
Reply to  James

Ahem … the second most beautiful woman in the world!!

James
James
7 months ago
Reply to  Ken B

I was quoting an uncle who corrected his preteen son who thought that a certain supermodel was the most beautiful woman in the world.

Zeph
7 months ago
Reply to  James

I want your mother to be the loveliest woman you know. Beauty fades, Loveliness doesn’t. No lies please.

James
James
7 months ago
Reply to  Zeph

“If you are real, you cannot be ugly, except to those who don’t understand”–from the Velveteen rabbit

Jill Smith
Jill Smith
7 months ago
Reply to  James

Even so, I wish every mother would tell her daughter on the eve of her marriage: NEVER ask your husband “Do you think she’s prettier than me?” Along with “Tell me the truth, honey–do I look fat in this dress?”

Barnabas
Barnabas
7 months ago

Since you attack Nick Fuentes specifically, I think people have the right to make up their own minds.
https://odysee.com/@annon1556:3

Chris
Chris
7 months ago
Reply to  Barnabas

Is that the video where he fantasizes about marrying a 16 year old?

Will
Will
7 months ago
Reply to  Chris

I thought he was an incel

Armin
Armin
7 months ago
Reply to  Barnabas

When did he attack Fuentes?

Barnabas
Barnabas
7 months ago
Reply to  Armin

Yesterday

James
James
7 months ago
Reply to  Barnabas

To his credit, however, he has not specifically attacked non-supremacist white nationalists or moderate kinists (i.e., Amren and faith and heritage). I disagree with him on some issues on this subject. The Jewish question needs to be reconsidered, and I would much, much rather have my daughter marry a nice Serbian guy than an African-American. He seems to be carving out a middle ground, more ethnic than simple civic nationalism, but less ethnic than the people above. And I can respectfully disagree with him on the ethnic issues that we differ on. Though I think a very strong case can… Read more »

Barnabas
Barnabas
7 months ago
Reply to  James

You think staying loyal to someone who repeatedly stabs you in the back has been an effective strategy for the conservatives?

James
James
7 months ago
Reply to  Barnabas

I think he really does believe most of what he says about those issues. Now, he may tweak the truth a little bit, and he may be reluctant to give up some ideas, but I’ve been there before too. There are some white advocates/nationalists who I think are worth listening to, but, based on the limited knowledge I have on Nick Fuentes, I’m not convinced he’s one of them. It is worth remembering that white advocacy is a very persecuted position, that he has repeatedly condemned MLK’s adultery and acknowledged that it is OK for some nations to be white… Read more »

Barnabas
Barnabas
7 months ago
Reply to  James

OK point out your problem with Fuentes or are you just trying to maintain some sense of common cause with Wilson?

James
James
7 months ago
Reply to  Barnabas

I don’t know enough about Mr. Fuentes to know whether he’s a good man or not, or whether he is worth listening to. The Wikipedia article about him made him look really bad, but I don’t trust wikipedia very far with people like him, as they called several people who believe Chinese are smarter than whites white supremacist. And it looks like he is right about some important things that Mr. Klavan is not, and it seems that Klavan’s error, that Jews who don’t even like Jesus can still go to Heaven even if they never change their mind about… Read more »

Jill
Jill
7 months ago
Reply to  James

Andrew Klavan is Catholic. According to official Catholic teaching: “Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.” Pope John Paul II issued a magisterial teaching that the Jews’ covenant with God has never been revoked because “the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable.” A newly released Vatican document–which does not (yet) carry magisterial force–says that the church… Read more »

Barnabas
Barnabas
7 months ago
Reply to  Jill

“ You know, when you spit that phrase at Ben Shapiro, my friend Ben Shapiro, and you know I understand this, all of you who love Ben, and I love Ben and Jordan Peterson, y’all want to see them find Jesus because you know what joy and freedom that gives you and you certainly feel that it alters your relationship with God, but when I think about this to be honest with you, and I know that some people will disagree with this, but, life is not a game show where you guess the name of God and you get… Read more »

Jill Smith
Jill Smith
7 months ago
Reply to  Barnabas

I am not sure why he would. I referenced the documents only to explain why Klavan, as a Catholic, would not feel the same urgency about the fate of Shapiro’s soul. If he did–if he really believed that Shapiro is damned unless he converts–the devastation of his family and his “position in the world” would be secondary considerations. From the Catholic Weekly in 2013: “The Catholic Church today recognises that the Jewish people are already in a saving relationship with God, which is the principal theological reason it refrains from missionary work directed towards Jews.” Fuentes wrote somewhere that, when… Read more »

James
James
7 months ago
Reply to  Jill Smith

It is sad that many Catholics have come to such a conclusion about the Jews. It is quite clear from the New Testament that, if all Jews go to Heaven, whatever they do, Hell is going to be quite sparsely populated. Jesus said it would be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon, (who burned children alive to Moloch) and Sodom and Gomorrah (cities made up entirely of homosexual rapists) than for the Jews who rejected him. And what about people who have converted to Judaism, especially from Christianity? Jesus mentioned that Pharisees travelled all over the place to find a… Read more »

Jill Smith
Jill Smith
7 months ago
Reply to  James

The Vatican doesn’t say that all Jews will be saved any more than it says all Catholics will be saved. According to the catechism, a Catholic who dles in a state of unrepentant mortal sin is presumed to be lost, and his belief that Jesus is the Messiah who died to atone for his sins will not save him. He is worse off than the non-Catholic who didn’t have the same means of sacramental grace. I think that most Catholics have shifted to a more universalist position by redefining unrepentant mortal sin and no longer really believe that missing Mass… Read more »

John Middleton
John Middleton
7 months ago
Reply to  Jill Smith

Jesus said to the unbelieving Jews “…where I am going, you cannot come.” (John 8:21) and “… for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.” (John 8:24).

Jane
Jane
7 months ago
Reply to  Jill

Andrew Klavan is Anglo-Catholic, to be precise.

Barnabas
Barnabas
7 months ago
Reply to  Jane

You spelled Jewish wrong

Jill Smith
Jill Smith
7 months ago
Reply to  Jane

Thank you! I didn’t know that. On looking it up, I see that he converted and was baptized in the Episcopalian church then left it for the Anglican Church in North America which was formed in 2009. Members of the Episcopalian parish I attended for a few years habitually referred to themselves as Catholics which is their undisputed right but can cause a bit of confusion to those of us who hear “Catholic” and think Roman. Only a few echoed Robin Williams and would announce “I’m Episcopalian–in other words, Catholic-Lite.”

J.F. Martin
J.F. Martin
7 months ago
Reply to  Barnabas

Barnabas, this is what you call an attack? 14. You say that you don’t want to “join in the kicking,” but haven’t there been occasions when you have attacked people on the extreme right? Yes, and will do so again. I am willing to go after certain toxic leaders because they are leading people astray. I am not trying to start something right this minute, but for an example, I would be happy to collide with someone like Nick Fuentes. But I do not want to attack an out-of-work 28-year-old coal miner with a wife and three kids to feed, a man… Read more »

Barnabas
Barnabas
7 months ago
Reply to  J.F. Martin

You spent 15 minutes and then you couldn’t find a sound bite to define his beliefs. Go back to Daily Wire.

J.F. Martin
J.F. Martin
7 months ago
Reply to  Barnabas

Seriously? He doesn’t have a mission statement you can link? I budget my daily online reading between this blog, American Reformer, and a few articles from RCP. American Reformer has a contrarian like yourself who posts often. To Armin’s post below, I’m not sure how to have a comment thread conversation in any other manner than ‘debate club’ style, but you and few others are more adept at the low effort, high impact statements that I struggle to understand. I think there are many who mistake meekness for weakness…and from a distance (or online) that is probably to my benefit.… Read more »

Armin
Armin
7 months ago
Reply to  J.F. Martin

Not every statement I make has to be part of a debate. Maybe I just want to get some information out there. All I’ve found when I “debate” people is that they lose and I get frustrated. Like I said, I’m almost always right, and I’ve only lately started to really grasp this and the implications of it. If I’m a leader, the worst thing I can do is get in pissy little debates with people all the time where I’m having to prove to them that I’m not an evil person. It’s tiresome. I want to solve problems, and… Read more »

J.F. Martin
J.F. Martin
7 months ago
Reply to  Armin

“If I’m a leader…” What is your definition here? My working definition is getting results through others. And great leaders get results through others and make them a part of something they ‘get’ to do, rather than ‘have’ to do. So you post on racial realism. Without editorializing, a basic definition I found suggests that racial differences are real, measurable, and that they matter. What are you trying to get me to do? Among Bible-believing Christians, Galatians 3:28 says otherwise. To non-believers, the message of the cross is foolishness. Just as that which opposes the Gospel to me is foolishness… Read more »

James
James
7 months ago
Reply to  J.F. Martin

Galatians 3 28 also says there is neither male nor female. There are some things in the Bible which are not to be taken at the first glance literal meaning. Just as male and female still matter, and men and women are not equal in every way, that verse only shows that we can get saved through Christ, regardless of race gender or class. Nor does it mean that religion is the most important thing in all areas of life. If I absolutely had to choose, I would much, much, much rather marry a non-Christian woman than a Christian man.… Read more »

John Middleton
John Middleton
7 months ago
Reply to  James

You would rather marry a non-Christian woman than marry a Christian man because the latter is a perverted farce, not because that relates in any way to immigration policy or familial obligations.

J.F. Martin
J.F. Martin
7 months ago
Reply to  James

James, I’m not nearly the Bible scholar I would like to be, but I actually think this verse is literal. We are one in Christ, before any other identity. Clearly it doesn’t mean that men and women are the same in other aspects or God-given purposes…but your marriage example is a false dilemma. The verse also doesn’t tell me I can’t have preferences in who I associate with, marry, or the like. MLK gets a lot of juice from his ‘content of character’ speech, because that is a Christian ideal. The racial realism supporters communicate that whatever group someone belongs… Read more »

James
James
7 months ago
Reply to  J.F. Martin

“Our brother Paul says some things which are hard to understand”–St. Peter. I agree that the verse means that it means that our race does not affect our status with Christ. But we need to be careful about going beyond there. The Bible does say some negative things about certain groups, in fact, St. Paul said something very harsh about Cretans. And while there are some blacks who are both good and intelligent (Dr. Carson, for instance), history seems to confirm that most are probably not capable of building and maintaining lasting civilization. All black African civilizations that reached or… Read more »

Barnabas
Barnabas
7 months ago
Reply to  J.F. Martin

And what’s the ethnic makeup of the community you choose to live in? Did your kids go to a majority black school?

Armin
Armin
7 months ago
Reply to  J.F. Martin

It’s an uphill battle because my side has lost and has no power. You reject racial truths because in the present environment they are considered low status, not because they’re not empirically and intuitively obvious.

Last edited 7 months ago by Armin
Chris
Chris
7 months ago
Reply to  Armin

When did your side lose exactly? Whats that around the 40’s?

Armin
Armin
7 months ago
Reply to  Chris

Away, pest.

Chris
Chris
7 months ago
Reply to  Armin

Awww, somebody a little butthurt about the fall of the turd reich?

Barnabas
Barnabas
7 months ago
Reply to  J.F. Martin

Ok, in your 15 minute perusal can you link to the video you found to be “unhinged”?
I can’t point you to a Nick Fuentes mission statement. I can point you towards a fairly representative sample of his take on politics, current events, religion…what have you. If you think he’s telling the truth watch some more.
https://odysee.com/@annon1556:3/Nick-Fuentes-on-Andrew-Klaven-saying-Ben-Shapiro-is-saved-while-not-being-a-Christian:4
https://odysee.com/@annon1556:3/Nick-Fuentes-on-Tyler-Bowyer-comments-on-Groypers-and-the-political-shift-of-TPUSA:a

J.F. Martin
J.F. Martin
7 months ago
Reply to  Barnabas

To be fair, I tried to avoid all the sites I figured would be slanted: Anti-Defamation League, CNN, Rolling Stone (though they have some impressive click-bait headlines!) and the first one I opened was this: https://january6th-benniethompson.house.gov/sites/democrats.january6th.house.gov/files/20220216_Nicholas%20J.%20Fuentes.pdf I’m sure he felt it was a witch hunt, but pleading the 5th that many times seems like a missed opportunity to share some kind of message or explanation for his purpose. He certainly is no evangelist. Then I went to both Fox and NBC to see what the deal was with Kanye West and Fuentes. Obviously, everybody and their brother had something to… Read more »

Barnabas
Barnabas
7 months ago
Reply to  J.F. Martin

Instead of listening to a word he said you went out of your way to propagandize yourself. Why are you talking to me?

J.F. Martin
J.F. Martin
7 months ago
Reply to  Barnabas

Barnabas, I’m talking to you because you make comments on a blog I enjoy that I don’t understand. I watched the 2nd link you sent me (I’m not interested in what Klavan thinks), and found Fuentes demeanor to be smug, lacking Biblical foundation, and slightly annoying to listen to. I’ll give you credit for introducing me to someone who has gained some national attention. In my estimation he is not a Christian Nationalist, making Pastor Doug’s referral more clear to me, and your concern for him less. “Faith and reason are like two wings upon which the human spirit rises… Read more »

Barnabas
Barnabas
7 months ago
Reply to  J.F. Martin

I’m not getting into a piety contest with you. We’re talking realpolitik here.

J.F. Martin
J.F. Martin
7 months ago
Reply to  Barnabas

Well, at least you are. So it’s not whether a system of politics is being discussed, but which? I’ll stand with the proprietor.

(Note: It’s really hard dropping these pithy one-liners. I’m so used to being afraid to think…or whatever your insult of the moment was.)

Barnabas
Barnabas
7 months ago
Reply to  J.F. Martin

You literally went to Fox News because you were scared to listen to Nick Fuentes. You are absolutely scared to think for yourself.
I’m not saying there’s no moral hazard to exposing yourself to new ideas but there is also moral hazard in not examining the beliefs you hold (most often absorbed through osmosis from the culture) and in defending the status quo.

Chris
Chris
7 months ago
Reply to  Barnabas

Yeah! Listen to Fuentes fantasize about marrying 16 year olds yourself!

Barnabas
Barnabas
7 months ago
Reply to  Chris

My grandmother married at 16.

Chris
Chris
7 months ago
Reply to  Barnabas

How old was your grandfather?

Barnabas
Barnabas
7 months ago
Reply to  Chris

Old enough that a staunch moralist such as yourself wouldn’t approve.

Chris
Chris
7 months ago
Reply to  Barnabas

Yeah, maybe a bad example?

Barnabas
Barnabas
7 months ago
Reply to  J.F. Martin

Keep this in mind. Knowing how evil the current system is, dont think you are going to be given permission to challenge it? I know you want to be a good guy and Doug Wilson wants to keep making a living. If some people have made the sacrifice to be hounded and harassed, put on watch lists and no fly lists, prosecuted…to bring you truths that Doug Wilson isn’t willing to bring you then I think you should honor the sacrifice they made by hearing them out. Another truth, no nation including the USA was founded or maintained by nice… Read more »

J.F. Martin
J.F. Martin
7 months ago
Reply to  Barnabas

Thanks for this Barnabas, it’s your most compelling argument. To your point…I do want to be a good guy. I haven’t been one, nor even wanted to for most of my life…proof to me that my will has been greatly inferior to God’s will for me. Just because some people have suffered consequences under the law (though imperfect), doesn’t necessarily make their reasoning worth listening to. I spent 10 years in military service out of High School. I’m disappointed that 30 years later I can’t recommend the same to my sons. My triplets are juniors…perhaps New Saint Andrews gives a… Read more »

Barnabas
Barnabas
7 months ago
Reply to  J.F. Martin

You scanned around to some mainstream media sites looking for someone to give you permission to listen to NF. Don’t pretend that shows how mature you are. You’re just afraid to think for yourself.

Jill
Jill
7 months ago
Reply to  J.F. Martin

I think Fuentes has been pretty forthcoming about what he and his America First movement have in mind for us. It’s a feature of Groyper army rhetoric to be edgy and ironic, not only because it appeals to their target audience but also because things like calling on people to murder state legislators can be passed off as a joke. But he also has moments when he is clearly speaking from his heart, Such as it is, On the need to wage a holy war against Jews, at a rally in July, 2023 that was also live-streamed: –“We need to… Read more »

Barnabas
Barnabas
7 months ago
Reply to  Jill

You are Jillybean from several years ago are you not?

Jill Smith
Jill Smith
7 months ago
Reply to  Barnabas

Yes. I wouldn’t want you to worry there could be two of me!

Barnabas
Barnabas
7 months ago
Reply to  Jill

Spooky. Guess we gotta let Jews keep sex changing kids.

Jill Smith
Jill Smith
7 months ago
Reply to  Barnabas

Presumably you are referring to Dr Spack who pioneered gender transition surgery at Boston Children’s Hospital. California has become a mecca for parents wanting hormonal and surgical treatment for their transgender children. I believe that all the UC hospitals offer it, as does the giant Kaiser healthcare system. The governor, who is not Jewish, has promoted what could be called transgender tourism. I doubt that that most Californians, including the Jewish ones, are on board with irreversible surgery for minors although the state legislature appears to be. But, if you think that transgender treatment of minors is the exclusive province… Read more »

Barnabas
Barnabas
7 months ago
Reply to  Jill

Well that guy sounds awful. People should listen to him to dig up some more good scare quotes.
https://odysee.com/@annon1556:3

Jill Smith
Jill Smith
7 months ago
Reply to  Barnabas

Yes, certainly people should check out that website and judge for themselves. I am sure that the video called “Nick Fuentes Laughs at a Fat Zionist” will be especially persuasive to rational viewers.

Barnabas
Barnabas
7 months ago
Reply to  Jill Smith

Is the fat Zionist Doug Wilson?

Jill Smith
Jill Smith
7 months ago
Reply to  Barnabas

It didn’t appear so. I am curious about your opinion about the growing number of young Jewish Americans who say they oppose Zionism. By opposing Zionism, I don’t mean that they are merely critical of Israel’s conduct; I mean that they oppose our financial and moral support of Israel and some dispute that Israel has any claim to the land it occupies. Should they be praised for “seeing the light” or condemned for disloyalty to their own people?

Barnabas
Barnabas
7 months ago
Reply to  Jill Smith

The types of ideology that make Western countries susceptible to Jewish parasitism inevitably conflict with Zionism. Which strategy is better for the Jews is a long-standing topic for debate. They’ve done a pretty good job so far of maintaining the double standard but with liberalism and Zionism now so extreme I’m not sure that can last. I would prefer to deal with a rival acting in the interest of his own people while living in his own country. I have no problem with the Chinese, for example. Israel has committed some pretty odious acts like running Epstein, bombing hospitals, drone… Read more »

J.F. Martin
J.F. Martin
7 months ago
Reply to  Jill

Thanks for the info Jill. And for sharing some of the Catholic take on topics here. Maybe next week we’ll find a topic we can discuss enjoyably between ourselves.

Barnabas
Barnabas
7 months ago
Reply to  J.F. Martin

Klavan isn’t speaking heresy because he’s Catholic, it’s because he’s Jewish. The link you weren’t interested in goes into detail.

Barnabas
Barnabas
7 months ago
Reply to  Barnabas

Jill is throwing Catholics under the bus to defend Jews.

Jill Smith
Jill Smith
7 months ago
Reply to  Barnabas

I am throwing Pope Francis under the bus to defend Jews? I am throwing the vast majority of ordinary Catholics under the bus to defend Jews? Straight from Francis himself: “(The Church) rejects every form of anti-Judaism and antisemitism, unequivocally condemning manifestations of hatred towards Jews and Judaism as a sin against God” and “Catholics are called to commit ourselves to ensure anti-Semitism is banned from the human community.” When it comes to solidarity, I think I’ll go with the pope rather than with a malignant little troll who calls himself a Catholic.

Barnabas
Barnabas
7 months ago
Reply to  Jill Smith

And, as you well know, all that has nothing to do with Andrew Klavan.

Jill Smith
Jill Smith
7 months ago
Reply to  Barnabas

Well, I didn’t know until Jane told me that he’s not in fact one of ours. I know next to nothing about the Anglican Church in North America but whether he is speaking “heresy” depends on their church teachings, not yours. Nor did I know that he was ethnically Jewish until I looked it up. There are plenty of Catholics with Jewish-sounding names.

Armin
Armin
7 months ago
Reply to  J.F. Martin

All this stuff about Nick Fuentes being “toxic” (whatever that means) or how certain losers might be tempted to listen to him because they’re desperate obfuscates the obvious question, which is simply, what if Fuentes is right? The more that weak men try to bring him down with goofy nonsense about his tone or whatever, the stronger he will get, because they show that compared to him, they have basically no will to fight, but would rather hand-wring and tut-tut over rules of polite discourse that no longer apply. Generally speaking, whites are the golden retrievers of humanity: agreeable, friendly,… Read more »

Last edited 7 months ago by Armin
Chris
Chris
7 months ago
Reply to  Armin

One too many “manliness” classes, big guy? You know you’re not supposed to drink the koolaid…

Armin
Armin
7 months ago
Reply to  Chris

The problem is I’m almost always right and consistently ahead of the curve. For example, I was one of the first, if not the first, people on this website talking about race realism and the Jewish question, and now people can’t shut up about it on here. I simply see what’s coming and am trying to help others be prepared. This includes, at the present time, and in fairly preliminary ways, formulating a metapolitical moral framework which will enable average “normie” Christians to envision and support a parallel society (including a parallel legal structure) to ultimately replace the current one… Read more »

Chris
Chris
7 months ago
Reply to  Armin

Lolol, one sentence in and I’m already checked out 🤣 what an arrogant tool.

Armin
Armin
7 months ago
Reply to  Chris

I can tell your type, and I’m not trying to win you over. I’m trying to defeat and marginalize you. And I mean in the real world, not in some doofy internet spat. So call me arrogant if you want. Some of us have bigger things on our minds than cinema.

Chris
Chris
7 months ago
Reply to  Armin

Oooh, you’re so scary with that big bad wolf inside you under your control? Grow up.

Armin
Armin
7 months ago
Reply to  Chris

Did you literally respond right after I wrote that at like, 7:00 in the morning? Just hitting “refresh” over and over haha.

Chris
Chris
7 months ago
Reply to  Armin

I take LONG dumps in the morning. Especially on this page. This you?

IMG_7006.jpeg
Chris
Chris
7 months ago
Reply to  Armin

I knew I recognized your cringy phrasing 🤡

IMG_7005.jpeg
Ken B
Ken B
7 months ago
Reply to  Armin

Do you have a final solution to the Jewish question? Although the term Jewish question predates the 20th Century, it is now associated with the National Socialist German Workers Party and its leader, and was what led to untold human misery and suffering.

You surely don’t want to associate biblical Christianity with this?

Last edited 7 months ago by Ken B
Armin
Armin
7 months ago
Reply to  Ken B

All this hysterical talk about a “final solution” or whatever…I just don’t care. Either you want a sane and safe country or you don’t. Either you accept how humans operate and the political ramifications around that, or you don’t.

Jill Smith
Jill Smith
7 months ago
Reply to  Armin

Is Fuentes right that because abortion, feminism, and sexual deviancy ae popular with the masses, “that’s why we need a dictatorship… we need to take control of the media, take control of the government, and force the people to believe what we believe”? You might possibly agree with him about that but what about his demand that the dictatorship be Catholic? That Catholics run the media, Hollywood, and the government with compulsory display of a crucifix in every private home and public space? As a Protestant, do you think Fuentes was right when he said “You’re either a Catholic or… Read more »

Barnabas
Barnabas
7 months ago
Reply to  Jill Smith

I nominate Father Coughlin.

Armin
Armin
7 months ago
Reply to  Jill Smith

You’re sort of looking at this from a more abstract angle, like, “Would this hypothetical scenario be worth that hypothetical scenario” and I’m just not interested in that discussion. The bad people are out there, they have every desire and intention to steal my children and mutilate them (there is at least a 5% chance they will make a legitimate effort to do this specifically to me, and that’s probably a lowball estimate), and yet I’m supposed to be worried about a crucifix in my house. See what I mean?   In the unlikely event that Fuentes’ irony-laced vision for… Read more »

Barnabas
Barnabas
7 months ago
Reply to  Armin

I’m wondering why a Catholic would be trying to spook Protestants about the prospect of increased Catholic political power.

Chris
Chris
7 months ago
Reply to  Barnabas

I’m wondering why a N**I doesn’t just try a beer hall putsch again and get your butt whooped?

Jill Smith
Jill Smith
7 months ago
Reply to  Barnabas

Of the nine SCOTUS justices, six are Catholic–seven if we include Gorsuch who attends church with his Episcopalian wife but has not become a member. CathoIics are represented in Congress at a higher rate than than their share of the population. There is not exactly a shortage of Catholic political power. Be that as it may, Fuentes is not calling for mainstream Catholics to have a greater voice in shaping our society. He is calling for an autocratic regime dominated by fringe schismatic Catholics whose repulsive views on race and human rights have been condemned by the Vatican. Before making… Read more »

Chris
Chris
7 months ago
Reply to  Armin

Nobody cares about your balls dude. Or stealing anybody’s children. Maybe being a crazy religious fundamentalist PUSHES your children away? Food for thought…

Armin
Armin
7 months ago
Reply to  Chris

I meant to my children, not me specifically. lol

Jill Smith
Jill Smith
7 months ago
Reply to  Armin

Yes, I think I understand that. If you think almost anything would be preferable to what you have now, you might go for someone who offers rescue thinking you can always negotiate the details down the road. It’s kind of the moral principle versus the practical reality. Do you oppose, on moral grounds, something you are quite certain will never happen? According to Barna, the very conservative evangelical Christian research group, 43% of millennials identify as atheist, agnostic and/or not interested in religion and I suspect that may be higher among Gen Z. Barring a great revival, the prospect of… Read more »

James
James
7 months ago
Reply to  Jill Smith

I’m more or less Lutheran, and I believe that anyone who confesses Jesus as Lord, and gladly believes that Jesus rose from the dead, will end up in Heaven, as St. Paul said. And Catholics are supposed to do that, so I think there are a lot of Catholics in Heaven. There is no scriptural reason to believe that people who don’t even like Jesus will be let in automatically. There is one Bible passage (in 1st Peter) which could plausibly be used to support last chance for some, but we don’t know who they are, and it could be… Read more »

Jill Smith
Jill Smith
7 months ago
Reply to  James

I married into a Jewish family and have a daughter who is ethnically half-Jewish. My Jewish extended family aren’t Orthodox (although up to sixty percent of Jews are marrying gentiles these days, Orthodox Jews are not among them). I don’t think I have ever had a Jewish family member or friend speak disrespectfully to me about Jesus–whether to spare my feelings or because they are pretty tolerant of other people’s religious beliefs, I can’t say. I don’t think it follows that Jews who don’t believe Jesus was divine are motivated by hatred. If we don’t assume that Sikhs and Buddhists… Read more »

Jeff
Jeff
7 months ago

Peter – from what I have read, Reconstructionists thought is a bit different than ‘…simply the Mosaic Law copy-pasted into modern times.’ Probably ‘adapted’ is a better description than ‘copy-pasted.’

Yes, the Reconstructionists thought is that the moral component of the Mosaic Law is universal and eternal. But they don’t think we need a parapet on our steeply pitched roofs. That is one of the most blatantly incorrect criticisms that I have seen of Reconstructionists.

Jack
Jack
7 months ago

Hey Bruce in Raleigh,
Doug already sent you the link to Christ Church in Cary NC. I encourage you to check it out. Worship times are at 9:00 a.m. and 11:00 a.m. We’re currently meeting in a non-church building. Great pastor, great people. You would be most welcome!

Jess
Jess
7 months ago
Reply to  Jack

Don’t know what part of Raleigh you are in, or whether you’re presbyterian or otherwise, but I attend a reformed Baptist church here in Raleigh with good teaching and fellowship and we’d love to have you! Christ Covenant Church on Fox Road in northeast Raleigh. cccraleigh.org

Rob
Rob
7 months ago

Bruce, Don’t just look for a church…… be the church, the “invisible” church, to your neighbors, friends, family etc! At that point you won’t even think much about the “visible” church any more!

human
human
7 months ago
Reply to  Rob

Hello. I have heard people say things similar to this a lot in recent years. In fact, among evangelicals there seems to be a large movement of people leaving the church, starting a home church because they can’t find a church to agree with, or just staying out altogether because the evangelical world is such a mess. I sympathize (can’t really say ‘empathize’ in these parts without getting pounced on) because it really is hard to find a great church. But the trouble with “being the church” and even with saying things like, “where two or more are gathered,” etc,… Read more »

John Middleton
John Middleton
7 months ago
Reply to  Rob

You can’t be the church individually. You can be a representative of the ekklisia, the assembly, if you are part of it, which you are not if you never are present in any assembly.

John Middleton
John Middleton
7 months ago
Reply to  John Middleton

Ekklesia. Sorry.

Jane
Jane
7 months ago
Reply to  Rob

No matter what you do and how faithful you are, you can’t ever “be” an assembly of people, which is what the church is by definition. You should of course be a representative of Christ to those around you, and being part of a church will enable you to do that even better, but that’s not what the word “church” means, biblically.

Rob
Rob
7 months ago
Reply to  Jane

Jane, John and human, History is full of times and believers who had no “church” to “go to” but that did not stop them from carrying out Christs’ commission and commands as believers. There are many believers who think “going to church” sums up their commitment to the gospel. I don’t discount the importance of having structural support as in a functioning church with elders and all the rest but most of history has been without and made up of small clans of individuals with no structure other than the gospel in hand and the Spirit of God residing. My… Read more »

Last edited 7 months ago by Rob
human
human
7 months ago
Reply to  Rob

That is valid in a culture void of churches, but not the case in this culture where there are many places to go to church, find fellowship, submit to leadership, have a place to serve, celebrate the Eucharist, etc. Why go it alone when you don’t have to? Why not try and find people who are doing it right and join them?

Jane
Jane
7 months ago
Reply to  Rob

Our lives are not limited to our functioning within the church, but they are not “more” than that. Functioning within a sound church in the right way is pretty much the pinnacle of Christian living. There are aspects of life that happen apart from the church but they are not greater in any way. And there are tragic circumstances where people are entirely cut off from church life but they have no reference to a situation where that’s not the case.

Last edited 7 months ago by Jane
John Middleton
John Middleton
7 months ago
Reply to  Rob

But you don’t live in one of those times or places. Citing “…many believers who think “going to church” sums up their commitment to the gospel” is a straw man, if you are implying that I or Jane suggest as much. No, most of church history has not been made up of small clans of individuals with no structure, in fact “clans” implies some kind of relational structure. The point is, there is no assembly of one, and we are called to be the church, the assembly, the body, and not just so many individual members autonomously off on our… Read more »

Rob
Rob
7 months ago
Reply to  John Middleton

The church is for equipping the saints for the real ministry of carrying the gospel outward. It is not the end of our means but the beginning. Our main focus should be outwardly. To go back to the original question of finding a good church, no problem with that, but, it always strikes me when I hear a question like that as if the church is the sum total of what we are called to and without it we are mission-less.

Rob
Rob
7 months ago
Reply to  Rob

…and my comments in no way suggest this is how Mr. Bruce thinks or operates, but only to bring in a different perspective on what seems to be an overriding story of so many folks. We can get on with the larger mission in this age of the visible church becoming less and less relevant.

Last edited 7 months ago by Rob
John Middleton
John Middleton
7 months ago
Reply to  Rob

The church is the saints and the saints are the church.

Jane
Jane
7 months ago
Reply to  Rob

Right — being equipped to take the gospel out happens within the context of the church, not apart from it. An essential aspect of being part of the church is taking the gospel out, but that’s an essential aspect *of* being part of the church, not something separate from church life.

I’m by no means saying our activity should be limited internally to the church, but that taking the gospel outward doesn’t happen properly or effectively apart from the starting point of being within the church.

Andrew
Andrew
7 months ago

PlannedAbortion.net is spot on. Very sad, but spot on.

Barnabas
Barnabas
7 months ago

So, in 2024 when Christianity has less influence on the American polity than at any time in its history why is “Christian nationalism” coming up? More specifically, why is Doug Wilson engaged in this larp? We’ve seen this sort of thing before from him. The implication is that he is actually going to take the side of the white rural and suburbanites that support him and buy his books. It whips up both his supporters and his detractors and generates some lucrative controversy. It really is a racist dog whistle. But we know that he will immediately walk it back… Read more »

Chris
Chris
7 months ago
Reply to  Barnabas

1000%

Longshore has yet to show any cojones saying provocative things like “gaytard.” No sauce. No 💰

Bernard
7 months ago

Additional thoughts on Brandon’s question concerning the promise/principle distinction in Proverbs: https://swimthedeepend.wordpress.com/2020/01/06/proverbs-226-promise-or-principle/

Ryan
Ryan
7 months ago

To Daniel re: Objectivity. First, let’s modify your scenario just a bit. Suppose you wait to baptize your son until he’s 15 years old, upon his profession of faith. At 30, he realizes he was a false convert, and under conviction of sin, he repents and believes. Prior to this, he was unregenerate and had therefore not repented and believed the gospel. This means he had been living an unbelieving, unrepentant life for 15 years, placing him in violation of the covenant, and bringing him under greater judgment that whole time. Why would anyone want that for their child? Second,… Read more »

john k
john k
7 months ago
Reply to  Ryan

The first point means that credobaptists can be subject to the same difficulty concerning regeneration as that posed for paedobaptists.

Regarding the second point, however, Scripture suggests otherwise. Withholding the sign causes a child to break the covenant and to objectively be outside the body of the people of the covenant (Genesis 17:14).

Ryan
Ryan
7 months ago
Reply to  john k

1) Correct.
2) I was thinking of 1 Corinthians 7:14. My reading of Gen 17:24 is that refers to mature males who have refused the sign, not an infant who’s father refused to give it to him. I could be mistaken.

Ken B
Ken B
7 months ago
Reply to  Ryan

The son had been living an unrepentant life for 30 years. No religious church ceremonies administered before he came to faith have any bearing on his status before God.

How can he be violating a covenant he had not yet entered into?

Ryan
Ryan
7 months ago
Reply to  Ken B

So if I’m interpreting you correctly, you’re saying that regeneration is the only way to enter the covenant? Is there any way we can ascertain that with our eyes and ears?

Ken B
Ken B
7 months ago
Reply to  Ryan

Basically yes. OT Jews were born Jews and circumcision was a sign of this. In the NT the baptism of believers is part of the process of new birth covering repentance faith in Christ and receiving the Holy Spirit (these latter two are not the same thing), and in contrast to the OT is for both male and female. Another difference I have with infant baptisers is I would downplay the role of church in its institutional form in the salvation process, where external ceremonies and rites do not always correspond to internal spiritual realities. The Church of England is… Read more »

J.F. Martin
J.F. Martin
7 months ago

Hi Jonathan. My first reaction is that in the article, I think it’s Pastor Buice or the author who says; “…but the problem is, you can overcorrect…”

I’d like to give that a try for a while.

Barnabas
Barnabas
7 months ago

I like the Israeli flag pin advert right in the middle of the article.

Andrew Lohr
Andrew Lohr
7 months ago

The Kingdom of God is like a big bush in which birds (different species, noisy, dirty, own agendas, cute) find shelter. Mustard, not kudzu.
///
My dad, baptized as a teenager and saved later, would say he went down a dry sinner and came up a wet one.