Trump, Cruz, and New York Values

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Look. It is a commonplace among us, or ought to be, that drivers ed classes in New York teach the students to drive with their knees so that they can give other drivers the bird using both hands. At least that’s what I heard.

And this relates, as I am sure you recognize, to an interesting exchange between Donald Trump and Ted Cruz last night. Ted Cruz had earlier tagged Trump as not being really conservative, but rather embodying “New York values.” This was no doubt said with Iowans in mind — some red state red meat — and these Iowans knew exactly what Cruz meant. But Cruz was asked about it in the debate, and he carefully explained that he was talking about social liberalism, pro-abortion policies, pro-gay mirage sentiment, and so on. Trump countered with an appeal to the heroism of New Yorkers in the aftermath of the 911 attack.New York

In the media response to this exchange, I was interested to note that a number of (New York-based) pundits thought this was one moment when Trump triumphed. The consensus was that Cruz had a very good night, sure, fine, but that on this point Trump landed a solid one on the Cruz-jaw. What we saw in fact was a display of regional patriotism that had nothing whatever to do with the point in hand. That, and the fact that Cruz doesn’t have a glass jaw.

On the merits, Cruz is exactly right, and there is no getting away from it. The howls of outrage are the kind of thing you hear whenever a soft target is hit. I said a moment ago that Iowans knew what Cruz meant. In fact, absolutely everyone knows what Cruz meant. He meant it, he said it, and it has the additional irritating quality of being true.

But the governor of New York, Andrew Cuomo, thought that Cruz tagging New York with its extreme liberalism was “un-American.” This was the same governor who just last January caused a stir by saying exactly the same thing that Cruz did, only in reverse.

Quoth Cuomo — and doesn’t that have a ring? — “Who are they? Are they these extreme conservatives who are right-to-life, pro-assault-weapon, anti-gay? Is that who they are? Because if that’s who they are and they’re the extreme conservatives, they have no place in the state of New York, because that’s not who New Yorkers are.”

And Cruz was able to cite Trump from an earlier interview in which his expressed positions were decidedly liberal, and which Trump explained, at that time, with a “Hey, I’m from New York.”

So shall we quit pretending? New York is a dark blue state, and a very powerful one. The values they use to govern themselves are values that we do not want deployed in governing us. In the race to the bankrupted bottom, which Detroit already won, liberals elsewhere are earnestly contending for the silver medal, and perhaps the bronze. The rest of us out here would appreciate it if you would keep our municipalities out of it.

The fact that this is plainly true does not mean that a deep blue city can’t have a “finest hour.” New York firefighters running into burning skyscrapers is something that Donald Trump applauds. So does Megan Kelly, so does Charles Krauthammer. But — and this is the point — so does Ted Cruz. So do I. That means that this is not a debate about heroism.

Cruz was critiquing particular policies which are, even as we speak, in the process of wrecking New York, and he was saying that we ought not adopt those policies on a larger scale. We will almost certainly get the same results if we do. He doesn’t want to export those policies to the rest of the country, policies which New York strongly identifies with. To respond with an appeal to a set of heroic behaviors found in New York which Ted Cruz would be happy to export to the rest of country is cute, glib, somewhat effective, and anything but pertinent.

Regional patriotism is a good thing. It is honorable in itself. Whenever I visit New York, I enjoy it myself — vicariously, but I do enjoy it. But whenever natural affection for place, any place, is used to blow smoke over a substantive truth, then it is being used in just the way described by Samuel Johnson — as the “last refuge of the scoundrel.”

 

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Rob Steele
Rob Steele
8 years ago

So true and so irrelevant. It would be relevant if elections were about ideas and reason but alas.

Luke Pride
8 years ago

It’s good that the churches, especially reformed ones in the Manhattan are standing against this New York culture. Woops, they’re actually supporting it.

Ochre
Ochre
8 years ago
Reply to  Luke Pride

As both a Manhattanite and a brother in Christ, I’d like to offer to play tour guide during your next trip to the city and show you an encouraging glimpse of the church in NYC. You’d be surprised!

Luke Pride
8 years ago
Reply to  Ochre

Fair enough. When I’m stateside this summer I will take a look

Kevin Bratcher
8 years ago

Approximately 1/8th of all abortions performed in the U.S. in 2011 were performed in New York.

‪#‎NYValues‬ ‪#‎TedCruzWasRight‬

Source: Guttmacher Institute https://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/sfaa/new_york.html

(Since they’re pro-abortion, I figure the numbers can’t be as easily disputed by liberals.)

timothy
timothy
8 years ago

Pastor, take a look at Scott Adam’s (of Dilbert fame) blog. He has fascinating lesson in rhetoric that he labels “The Master Persuader Series” . (He tags these as #trump) http://blog.dilbert.com/tagged/Trump You are thinking 2-D, Adams and Trump are thinking 3-D. In normal parlance, this is the distinction between dialectic and rhetoric. You will find the thinking (I have) insightful. In politics, rhetoric trumps (sorry, no pun intended) dialectic. Reason mag has an interview with Adams here-> https://reason.com/reasontv/2015/10/06/donald-trump-is-a-master-wizard with some examples of Trump’s technique. Remember how the Romans/Greeks trained their young men in rhetoric? Trump shows the importance of this… Read more »

katie
katie
8 years ago
Reply to  timothy

The high school years, in classical Christian education, are called the Rhetoric stage.

Luke
Luke
8 years ago
Reply to  timothy

I certainly agree with the importance of rhetorical training. It should be noted, however, the Scott Adam’s blog series is not an attempt to report on Trump’s skill in rhetorical persuasion. It is instead an attempt to EMPLOY rhetorical persuasion to convince people to vote for Trump, and a fairly intriguingly executed one at that.

John Killmaster
John Killmaster
8 years ago

As Cruz said, everyone knows what “New York Values” are. It was a clumsy moment though, because Trump masterly turned it into Cruz spitting on Ground Zero. We can wring our hands as much as we like, but Trump is going to be the next President. This, of course has its negatives, but I think there are a good many positives and opportunities to be had if we as Christians would be a little Machiavellian (or if that offends you, shrewd as serpents.)

holmegm
holmegm
8 years ago

It’s a Samson moment. You wouldn’t want Samson as an elder, but he’s awfully handy when Philistines are around.

ME
ME
8 years ago

Escape From New York, 1981, Kurt Russell. It’s an entertaining story, I would just prefer not to have to live it.

I want to believe something good is going to come out of this election, but I’m just not seeing it yet.

Ben
Ben
8 years ago

Ted Cruz ain’t the guy. There will be no reduction in the debt (barring a default or massive inflation) after 4 or 8 years of President Cruz. Abortions will still be rampant, the welfare state will have expanded, and the crony corporate security/prison-rape/warfare state beloved by establishment republicans like Cruz will be larger than ever. The Fed will do QE 4, 5, etc. to the benefit of Heidi Cruz’s employer (and to me and my precious metals). Oh, and there will be wars. Lots of dead people. And trillions of dollars more going *poof* just like that (taken out of… Read more »

John Carnahan
John Carnahan
8 years ago

“Look. It is a commonplace among us, or ought to be, that drivers ed classes in New York teach the students to drive with their knees so that they can give other drivers the bird using both hands. At least that’s what I heard.”
Actually, one hand is on the horn.

Unilateral Divorce Is Unconsti
Unilateral Divorce Is Unconsti
8 years ago

Bit further up the Hudson, this once-teen graduate of NY driver ed was NEVER taught to drive with her knees, thank you very much. Not even to much on a Carroll’s burger!

Luke
Luke
8 years ago

What’s fascinating from a purely political and media standpoint is how Trump managed to swing it so that everyone is talking about his exchange with Cruz over the non-issue of NY values (the exchange where he comes out looking good to the average viewer) and thus everyone ends up ignoring the exchange with Cruz over the non-issue of Cruz’s birth (where the general viewer saw Trump as looking weak and utterly defeated). Even die-hard Cruz supporters have gone this way, throwing all their weight into discussing the NY values issue, rather than drawing attention to the other where Cruz looked… Read more »

Malachi
Malachi
8 years ago
Reply to  Luke

In the same way a train wreck is interesting…you are forced to admit to morbid fascination even while cringing at the sight of mangled steel and scattered bodies.

andrewlohr
andrewlohr
8 years ago

New Jersey values: have the government take a widow’s house by “eminent domain” and give it to your casino to expand the parking lot. Is your God big enough to challenge “eminent domain”? Is I Sam 8 in your
Bible?

ashv
ashv
8 years ago

Can one really take seriously a complaint about “New York values” from a man whose wife is a Wall Street banker?

Luke
Luke
8 years ago
Reply to  ashv

And this, my friend, is what we call the “genetic fallacy” :)

ashv
ashv
8 years ago
Reply to  Luke

Which, the assumption that Trump being from New York is bad? :)

Luke
Luke
8 years ago
Reply to  ashv

Actually, Cruz did NOT say Trump is “bad becasue he is from NY” (something I think you well know, my friend, as much is you wish he HAD said something so ludicrous as that). Cruz said that Trump’s self professed embodiment of “New York VALUES” is not a conservative claim. This is demonstrably true, and one does not have to take Cruz himself seriously to take his POINT seriously. Now, whether or not that makes Trump the wrong choice is not settled by this kind of argument. The argument doesn’t prove that NY Values are wrong or that Conservative values… Read more »

ashv
ashv
8 years ago
Reply to  Luke

I don’t actually care. (I’m also not a conservative.)

Xman3
Xman3
8 years ago

It was all in good fun. Would you by Texas/Mexican Salsa made in New York City?

holmegm
holmegm
8 years ago
Reply to  Xman3

“New York City?!?”

I remember those commercials.

holmegm
holmegm
8 years ago

While you have a point, there’s no escaping that Trump blew Cruz away on this, emotionally. He simply did.

What’s more, Cruz walked into it after Trump had already test fired it earlier. It’s rather concerning, Cruz being so tone deaf, if nothing else.

Tom©
Tom©
8 years ago

The article implies that Cruz’s friendship with gay people or his claim that would love his daughters if they were gay is somehow inconsistent with his stance that the radical gay rights agenda infringes on religious liberty and that gay marriage should be decided in the states.
Is this supposed to dissuade those of us who support Cruz? This sort of obfuscation is almost as bad as implying that New York values referred to first responders and not liberal bureaucrats.