Comes now some scholars with backbone, in order to point out that the Obergefail decision is a Hefty bag filled up tight with balloon juice. This is quite right, and so they go on to make practical applications, which include encouraging all concerned to consider the decision as having no application beyond the named plaintiffs in the case. This advice amounts to encouraging all officeholders — who have sworn to uphold the Constitution, incidentally, which is to be distinguished from Anthony Kennedy’s opium dream, in which the Constitution played a walk-on cameo role — to feel free to tell the sexual tyrants to pound sand.
Our Establishment pols want to say that this kind of showdown would provoke a constitutional crisis. This is because our Establishment pols want Théoden to die in bed and not on the fields of Pelennor. Dying in bed is not a crisis, and saving your honor on the battlefield is a crisis. A terrible crisis. He might expect somebody to come with him.
But the crisis — and it would be a crisis — would not be a constitutional one. Those who argue for judicial supremacy would treat it like a constitutional crisis because they want the Supreme Court to have the final word on everything, period. But the crisis would only be a crisis for a particular legal theory, not a crisis for the actual system of constitutional law established by the Founders. The crisis would actually be a leadership crisis, not a constitutional one.
There would be turmoil, sure. Kim Davis would refuse a marriage license to a homosexual couple because neither party is named Obergefell. If that kind of chaos broke out, it would be an example of a situation becoming ungovernable on a national level. But whose fault is that? This statement points out that this untenable and unstable arrangement was the work of five unelected hubristers trying to make breakfast for the dog, at which venture they succeeded admirably.
Even at the federal level, the doctrine of judicial supremacy is manifestly false. The Constitution says “the Supreme Court shall have appellate jurisdiction, both as to law and fact, with such exceptions, and under such regulations as the Congress shall make” (Art. III, Sec. 2). In plain English — for it is in plain English — this means that Congress has the authority to limit the jurisdictional authority of the Supreme Court. It could be a very simple law — “the United States Supreme Court shall not have the authority to restrict the authority of states to protect unborn human life, or to restrict the state’s authority to recognize true marriage.”
So I believe that officeholders across the country should take this grand proposal to heart, and simply refuse to implement the Obergefell decision beyond the case of the plaintiffs in question. This will of course cause a commotion, and so every 2016 candidate for president should be asked directly about Art. III, Sec. 2. If Congress passes the necessary legislation, would you sign it?
The one thing that no candidate should be allowed to do is shrug and say “alas, it is out of our hands.” No, it isn’t. Every candidate for the House, every candidate for the Senate, and every candidate for president, is running for a position that could play a key role in taking the Supreme Court’s Hefty bag to the top of the nearest breezy hill in order to empty it.
But there already IS a law. It reads: “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
I’m not sure it gets any plainer English than THAT.
Can’t we just ask every 2016 candidate for president directly about Amendment X?
Unless the states have in fact given marriage & abortion to the US — as they all have.
This maneuver tosses them back to the states.
Hmmm…it seems that even if the States have “given” their power to the Federal Gov’t, it doesn’t follow that the Tenth Amendment is now null and void. It would require another Amendment to the U.S. Constitution to nullify the Tenth. Therefore, the States need only to behave themselves properly, in accordance with Amendment X, once again…as in starting right now. Just do it.
That’s true, but if they aren’t honoring the 10th, what then? I don’t think Doug is arguing that the 10th Amendment has been nullified, but simply that is has been ignored and that merely pointing to it won’t cut through the thick self-deception our legal and political culture is cloaked in. There’s no way that merely re-reading the 10th Amendment, re-stating it in public, and asking candidates about it would in any way solve the problem. They could find a way to rhetorically weasel their way from it and move on. Not that those answers would hold up substantively, but… Read more »
Hmmm, Amendment Ten … is that the one where it talks about the separation of church and state, or the one about providing for the general welfare?
It’s the one about income inequality.
Right. You want to ask about the 13th Amendment, which attempted to put right one of the greatest failures of the US Constitution, and that was the acceptance of slavery?
So what do YOU think? Do you want to go back to chattel slavery? Yes or no?
Let’s not fall off the other side.
We should not concede that any state has any authority to define marriage.
Why must we accept the Court’s decision even in the case of the plaintiffs in question?
I suppose Lincoln conceded this by saying we can hope to overturn a single case, and not accept the eminent Tribunal’s rulings on individual cases invites a spirit of anarchy?
Before the Civil War, those scholars might have had a point, but this issue has already been resolved on the battlefield. Whatever balance of power between the states and the federal government the framers may have thought they were striking, was completely re-struck at Gettysburg and Antietem and Shiloh. Some political questions do get decided by war; this was one of them. And you need look no further than to see who signed this declaration. Do you see anyone on the list of signers that would be considered a scholar of national renown? Any judges? Any law professors from first-tier… Read more »
Baby steps.
Gotta start somewhere.
Have you ever read the Narnia books, Krychek_2? I was wondering if you would have fought with Gumpas or Caspian at Narrowhaven.
Krychek_2 is here to inform us that the Constitution has evolved, and that we have moved on from the framers. Strangely though, Krychek_2 seems to have suddenly lost his faith in those same evolutionary forces. Who is he to declare that the Civil War resolved anything in any ultimate sense? Can Constitutions only be re-struck once? It’s hilarious to watch an avowed evolutionist attempt to declare the fixedness of our national DNA. In evolution, everything is always and forever: fluid.
katecho is here to confusedly intertwine evolution and constitutional law as if the two have anything to do with one another, in order to slime the idea in play with atheist grease. Notice nonetheless how katecho seems to be confident of his non-applicable metaphor, not understanding or willfully misleading readers that the algorithm that is evolution by means of natural selection is in fact fixed with one of the integers being random mutation.
Randman looks forward to katecho talking here with Krycheck2 because he welcomes watching katecho flail in the third person and looks forward to the occasional bold headline.
Constitutions can be re-struck as many times as someone wants to, but as of now, no one has, and the Civil War is the most recent word. But RandMan is right: What does evolution have to do with constitutional law? You really can’t keep categories straight, can you?
Your the one with the “living constitution” ; Katecho is your random mutation. Is that a cyst on your handle? You sound…..mutated.
Predictably, Krychek_2 has abandoned his argument, posthaste. He was the one who raised the Civil War, saying that “the issue has already been resolved”, and that this political question has already been “decided by war”. But on reminding Krychek_2 of his evolutionary commitments, he is immediately brought to heel again, and is now preaching that Constitutions can be re-struck indefinitely. One is left wondering why he even bothered to bring up the Civil War. He now agrees that it decided nothing, and resolved nothing. Nice. The problem with his appeal to whatever is is that what is keeps changing and… Read more »
Katecho, do you understand what an equivocation is? Because that’s what you’re doing. You’re using the term “resolved” in a different sense than I am. Here’s an example. If the waitress asks me if I want more coffee, and I say no, that doesn’t mean I won’t want any more forever and ever; it means I don’t want any right this minute. If, tomorrow morning, I go back to the restaurant and say, “I’d like some coffee,” that doesn’t mean I was lying the day before. “No” meant something different yesterday than it does today because the circumstances have changed.… Read more »
Krychek_2 seems to be in damage-control mode now, but anyone with eyes can see that he was attempting to poo poo the current scholarly call for state resistance to the federal supreme court decision. Krychek_2 declared that the matter had been decided, resolved. If he had meant that the subject of state resistance can be decided again, daily, with your morning coffee, then his appeal to the Civil War would be meaningless. Again, in evolutionism, there is no fixed national or cultural DNA. It’s all as fluid as morning coffee.
Katecho, it’s one thing to misrepresent my position before I’ve explained it; it’s another thing to misrepresent my position after I’ve explained it. Have a pleasant evening.
Signers from Princeton, Cambridge, and Oxford as well as other notable institutions are included in the document.
There are some top-tier folks (Robert George), but – at the end of the day – is truth a popularity contest? These judges (the Fab Five) all have Ivy League degrees and I wouldn’t trust any of them to deliberate in a neighborhood squabble.
Is it ever okay to point out an inconvenient fact like: “these signatories are all from the third- and fourth-tier of American academia”? Clearly, this is untrue, and in pointing it out, I was in no way implying that truth is majority opinion.
Not unlike the quality of scientist that ID’ers and The Discovery institute roll out to support their ‘grand proposals’.
heh.
So many evangelicals have an irrational need to be led by men of renown before they’ll do anything. That’s one of the primary reasons the church is in the mess it’s in today.
Before the Civil War, those scholars might have had a point, but this issue has already been resolved on the battlefield.
Cowboy up, hoss. There is a new war on.
Well what is made by man will come undone. First and most often repeated lesson in boot camp.
This would necessarily include political decisions “settled by war”
The war ain’t over.
Bravo.
We should not limit our focus to the candidates for national office. Every county clerk, elected judge, justice of the peace, sheriff, school board member and the guy who runs the dog pound if he’s elected should be asked if they will uphold whatever illegal acts are passed down form on high or if they will protect the liberty of the citizens who elect them. And if they do not have the backbone to protect our liberty from tyrants then we should not elect them.
I am reminded of how much the good antebellum white Christians of the South believed in marriage. They believed in it so much that they denied it to their animate property. I’ve been reading “The Half Has Never Been Told” by Edward Baptist and “The American Slave Coast” by Ned and Constance Sublette. It’s quite apparent that antebellum white Southerners considered black people their property and property wasn’t allowed to get legally married. That was so the enslavers (that’d be Ed Baptist’s word for the slave owners) could break up and sell his or her property without concern for the… Read more »
How many black children in the antebellum South were raised by both their parents?
How many black children in the USA are raised by both now?
OK, I’m probably going to very much regret responding to a person who flies the segregationist Confederate battle flag, but here goes. The answer to your question is I don’t know. However, what I do know is enslavers had no compunction about breaking up slave families if they needed the money, and they did, by the thousands upon thousands every year. And to get to the state of the current black family, let me spell this out for you. You go from a situation where you and your people are property for nearly 250 years, then once you get your… Read more »
I recommend finding out.
ashv,
Just a suggestion – – but anyone who sincerely believes slavery explains the state of the black America today is not going to be convinced by mere facts or other evidence.
kmh
One of my hobbies is to keep my eye on sovereign citizens and other nutbars of various sorts who believe they are somehow outside American law or not under the jurisprudence of the highest court of the land. I’m trying to figure out if these guys (and the six or so women they deigned to allow to sign with them) are going to be a threat to the good order and liberty of this country, or are they the kind of sovereign citizen goofballs that I and a few others (some of whom, like me, also have law degrees) laugh… Read more »
Disdain looks about as good on you as it does anyone and is equally unconvincing. Stop while you’re ahead.
Would you consider Lincoln a rebel, or a wannabee?
And I’m curious whether his law credentials would have placed him at the bottom of your barrel too?
I see Lincoln as the 16th president of the United States. And he read law at a time when there were few law schools. He was pretty good at practice, I hear.
So then you have high respect for Lincoln’s thinking, cited in the document?
I see a large empty space where I was looking for a reply to that. Interesting.
Wow. So people have an opinion on a legal question that is different from the ruling consensus, and your reflex is a kind of Red Scare reaction?
They disagree with the Supreme Court! It’s sedition, sedition I tell you!
Jane, I would not say they are guilty of sedition. I would say that they are in the same position as people who show up at conservative Christian churches to claim that the Bible affirms gay relationships. The position they’re taking is so far off the reservation that it’s a fair question as to how they could possibly reach their conclusion. They may very well be sincere, but they’re the lunatic fringe, and their view has very little mainstream support. Now, it’s possible that these legal scholars are on to something. And it’s possible that the Bible really does affirm… Read more »
Krycheck, I was responding to Deana, whose reaction to this view is to start wondering if these people are dangerous lunatics.
You merely think they’re wrong, perhaps obviously wrong, but you’ve never suggested that a reasonable response is to wonder if they’re dangerous. On the level of a reasonable way to disagree, I have no problem with that. I have a problem with the kind of reaction that reflexively ties out of the mainstream views to fringe lunacy.
I’ll only worry when they all start packing heat.
Now they are lunatics… What’s next?
I like to keep an eye on wannabe tyrants. I knit their names into my scarf, in honor of Madame Defarge
You may want to check out the compliance rate with the NY Safe act. Its < 5%. Do you know why they are not complying with the law Deana Holmes JD?
I find it amusing that those who have posted denigrating the premise of the article have resorted to ad hominem, and have not addressed the actual argument itself.
Its too late…
The authors are uneducated, common men from the lower tier…
These guys are either a threat to the good order and liberty or goofballs… (with no other choices)
Amusing.
Particularly when the very first “law professor” in the U.S. encouraged, as integral to the study of law “…the theory of government (both ancient and modern), history, moral philosophy and ethics.”
Why do “evolutionary atheists” hang out here? Their skepticism finds zero meaning at the nihilist boards. RM, I think I know who she was.
Oops. I should have posted these thoughts – –
https://dougwils.com/s7-engaging-the-culture/a-different-kind-of-deplorable-word.html#comment-2310382236
– – here instead of there.
P.S. If anyone feels the urge to dive into the difference(s) [if there are any] between “judicial review” and “judicial supremacy,” Ed Whelan’s “Bench Memos” over at Nation Review Online has a ton of posts and links on that dispute. See: http://www.nationalreview.com/bench-memos