Potiphar’s Wife, Survivor

In a recent development, a discovery has been made that has Egyptologists all atwitter, so to speak. A chamber in the Khafre Pyramid was discovered last year, and when opened was found to contain the computer servers for that ancient kingdom. As luck would have it, one of the first blog accounts they deciphered was that of Potiphar’s Wife, Survivor.

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Speaking Out At Last

. . . and so this is why I decided I could remain silent no longer. I have three younger sisters, and if I can encourage them by telling my story, it is the least I can do.

My father had always been distant, remote. As Ra would have it, my husband turned out to be the same kind of man, exactly the same kind of man. He was distant and remote as well, almost all the time, except when he had been drinking. Then he would show some interest in me, but for no more than five minutes. When he was done, he would become loud and abusive, and shortly after that, would totally ignore me. I felt entirely shut up, worse than being in the prisons of Pharaoh.

It would be nice to think that a different breed of man might exist, but that kind of wishful thinking should really be banished from our minds. For example, among all his other faults, Potiphar added this one—he brought a Hebrew slave into our household, a man named Joseph. Not only that but he promoted him and put him over the management of the whole household. At first I thought he might be different from all those other men, but now that he is in prison, my therapist has helped me to see how carefully Joseph was grooming me. What I thought of as “different” was simply cold and cruel calculation on his part.

For example, he would carefully avoid me, making it clear that he thought I was hot. Whenever he was on the other side of the house, I could feel him undressing me with his eyes. Then there were all the unspoken things that passed between us, which I would carefully rehearse in my mind, right after he had not said them. Looking back, I can see it all so plainly. What a fool I was!

Then that fateful afternoon came when he tried to rape me. Yes, I am no longer afraid to use the word rape. If he been a little more patient, if he had groomed me for just another month, I might not have cried out. I had been almost completely absorbed into the rape culture that Joseph truly embodied. I was truly in a vulnerable place, which my therapist has really helped me to finally grasp. I still am in a vulnerable place, in so many ways. My therapist is so kind and gentle . . . not at all like Potiphar. He truly listens to me. He actually believes me when I dare to share my innermost thoughts. I am almost to the point where I can tell him what would really satisfy me.

But Joseph was too impetuous, too like a man, and that is where he made his fatal miscalculation. Almost his victim, in another sense I will always be his victim. I will never forget that afternoon, his rugged profile, his strong muscular forearms . . . actually, please excuse me. That is the grooming talking. It still comes back, sometimes very strongly. I will carry those scars for a long time. I will actually never forget how he abused the position of authority in the household that my blockhead of a husband gave to him.

So I will overcome it. I must. I will stand strong. I will try to forget and I will never forget. True, I am a victim, but I am more than that. I am a survivor.

Comments

So brave!

Amisi

Thank you for telling your story. Others will be inspired.

Bahiti

I recently had occasion to visit the Pharaoh’s prison in, ah, an official capacity, and this is not the story they are telling down there. Believe you me.

Mahu, Chief Cupbearer to Pharaoh

Hater! Why don’t you go drown yourself in a bucket?

Ekibe

Don’t let people like that discourage you, sister.

Hatshepsut

Amen. You almost give me the courage to tell my own story. I just might someday.

N.P.

Chief Cupbearer to the Patriarchy, you mean

Eshe

No, l mean you can’t be a victim if you are lying about the whole thing.

Mahu

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jigawatt
Guest
jigawatt

Nevertheless, she persisted.

jigawatt
Guest
jigawatt

I’m surprised at the choice of the cupbearer, who was eventually restored, rather than the baker.

valerieab
Member

Um…the baker wasn’t available for comment.

jigawatt
Guest
jigawatt

Um…the baker wasn’t available for comment.

I was thinking the blog post (and resulting comment) was supposed to have been what caused the prisoning, but yes, when he said “visit the Pharaoh’s prison” that means this post happened after the cupbearer’s restoration and (probably) before Joseph’s release.

Jennie
Member

Why? Did he refuse to bake a cake for Pharaoh?

Dave
Guest
Dave

The baker was carried away and lost his head.

adad0
Member

So guys, what did Joseph do, in the face of the wife’s “survivability”?

He manned up, carried on and trusted God. It’s not like this was the worst thing that happened to him in the first place.

“In this world you will have trouble, but take heart, I have overcome the world.” Jesus

Our host knows this as well as anyone.

insanitybytes22
Member

Well put, A-dad. It’s not exactly fair, but that is what we are often called to do.

adad0
Member

As the “Joseph’s” you tell of, have demonstrated, at times! ????????????

AeroBob
Guest
AeroBob

Time to put on your Kevlar helmet and grab your vibranium shield (Eph 6:13-17) Doug for everything headed your way.

And I'm Cute, Too
Guest
And I'm Cute, Too

And he deserves it.

Tiffany Allmand
Guest
Tiffany Allmand

I don’t believe this report. . .

Jsm
Guest
Jsm

” Hater, why don’t you go drown yourself in a bucket” bwahahaha

Carolyn
Guest

This is sick and twisted! You continually shock me with your writings, but this one takes the cake! I suspect you are still trying to dig your way out of a mess you made of your own life; or of someone else’s life. Here’s the thing; people who can’t admit they’re wrong show no fruit of the spirit. Being a Christ follower means confessing, repenting and turning away. This reads like a person who believes their own rhetoric, lies, denial, rationalization, minimizing, justifying, and spiritualizing. I highly recommend counselor Patrick Doyle. You can find his teaching sessions on Youtube. Poking… Read more »

Jsm
Guest
Jsm

Carolyn’s response amounts to, “hater, why don’t you go drown yourself in a bucket”

David Welty
Guest
David Welty

It actually doesnt, at all, but your response can be paraphrased as “NA NA NA I’M NOT LISTENING”

Jsm
Guest
Jsm

It actually does, completely. Carolyn’s characterization of Doug’s satire is basically calling him a hater. Her recommendation of Patrick Doyle is basically telling Doug to drown himself in a bucket. Doyle teaches abuse is in the eye of the beholder. Doug would be better off drowning himself in a bucket than giving any regard to that man’s teaching. Either abuse is an objective reality or like Doyle teaches it is subjective. If subjective there is no standard to hold people accountable and no way to keep anyone from becoming an abuser.

mirele
Guest
mirele

It’s not satire to heap more abuse on those already abused. Doug Wilson should be ashamed of himself, but he’s too proud to realize where he’s at.

Deana Holmes
Mesa, Arizona

GEA
Guest
GEA

He’s not heaping abuse on those who have *actually* been abused. That should be clear from what we all know about the original story.

And I'm Cute, Too
Guest
And I'm Cute, Too

Exactly. Douggie’s just comparing those who share their stories about being abused (sexually or otherwise) with Potiphar’s evil, conniving wife. That’s all.

And I'm Cute, Too
Guest
And I'm Cute, Too

Well, let’s be fair, Deana. After all, this is the same man who thinks himself (and his opinions) so important, that he needs more than just his own blog. He also simply must have his own school, college, vanity press, church and denomination. Were any of us really expecting humility? Or good sense?
♪”Oh, Lord, it’s hard to be humble…”♪

Dave
Guest
Dave

Your legal scowl is showing again and it is because the argument you used didn’t match the case so the judge dismissed your work with prejudice.

As a trained scowler, you should know the argument must fit the law and that pure emotion doesn’t fly at all.

I am not ashamed of the Gospel and it doesn’t work out in social justice ways especially in this case.

Whitney
Guest
Whitney

Hew boy. Are you familiar with laughing at a joke versus being the joke? This post isn’t about abuse survivors. It’s about women who try to use abuse as a beard for their poor, self-serving lustful choices and garner sympathy for it. I would encourage you to read it again. Preferably with your tongue in your cheek.

Carolyn
Guest

I think Doug’s ego can’t let go of the Natalie Greenfield case. She was under age when her abuse happened. End of story! Not her fault…regardless of what type of spin he puts on it. As a Christ follower I’m exhausted of the church not understanding abuse and not supporting the victim; especially a child victim.

Whitney
Guest
Whitney

The whole premise of your frustration is hung upon your assumption of Doug’s motives with this blog post, and we all know what happens when we assume….. Why not shoot him an email and ask him? Wouldn’t that be the solution Christ asks from you when you are offended by a brother?

Cathy
Guest
Cathy

Whitney,

Doug mocked Natalie Greenfield on Twitter twice immediately under his link to this blog post.

People aren’t assuming anything. We can read for ourselves what narcissistic Doug did.

Dave
Guest
Dave

We can also read the false narratives that Natalie and others post.

Whitney
Guest
Whitney

How do you figure, Cathy?

wackytobeme
Member

So you have evidence that Pastor Wilson does not believe she was abused and thinks her abuser was innocent, because, emphatically, he has stated time and again that he knows she was abused and advocated punishment for the abuser. This blog post has nothing do to what that situation and to automatically assume it does is just weakens your credibility.

Dave
Guest
Dave

For the casual reader, Carolyn puts out some false information here. Natalie was not a child but a mid-teenager when it started and an adult at the end. Was there abuse? Yes. Was there consent? Yes. This is where the rubber meets the road and it is always messy. There is a huge difference between a child being abused and a teenager growing into an adult and an adult living at home. She waited years before talking to her parents and then her Dad sat on that information for another six months before going to the church. Wilson, Christ Church… Read more »

mirele
Guest
mirele

NO. There was NOT consent. A “mid-teenager” by law, CANNOT consent. This is one of the worst lies I have ever read, and I keep seeing it. I am tired, very tired, of Doug Wilson and his supporters saying that Natalie Greenfield consented when (a) legally, she could not, (b) she was considerably younger than her abuser and (c) he was in a position of power over her as a man and a student at the “seminary.” And here, for your review, is the beginning of the Idaho statutes dealing with child sexual abuse. Read it and ponder. For the… Read more »

bethyada
Member

Because the law says that women who abort their children are innocent does that mean that they are not guilty?

James
Guest
James

I’m just going to leave this here…..https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

bethyada
Member

How is it a strawman? That fallacy isn’t remotely connected to my comment.

Something can be legal or illegal and moral or immoral. How does the legality prove morality?

herewegokids
Guest
herewegokids

Omg

bethyada
Member

It is unclear whether you think that the idea of mothers being innocent is horrific, or them being guilty is horrific.

Jane
Member

Based on history with this person, I think it’s the “analogizing abuse situations with anything else at all, ever is horrific” thing. Like Hitler, sexual abuse is something that is not of this planet and exists beyond human nature and therefore none of the ordinary principles of morality or justice apply to it and nothing can ever be like it. It’s simply to be condemned and have obloquy heaped upon it whenever it is mentioned or suggested, but we cannot view it as something that fits into a larger moral framework and therefore it is not analogous to anything else.

Dave
Guest
Dave

Mirele (Deana), please take your shoes off and wiggle your toes before you type. I am glad that you were trained in legal scowl’s. In Arizona, you should be able to smile some though. Consent in the legal sense was not given. No one says it was. Wight was punished for that reason. We are all sick of sexual abuse and we are all sick of lies about who authorized it and the aftermath. Consent in the vernacular was given and that is the consent I am talking about. Natale had the ability to tell right from wrong and chose… Read more »

Christopher
Member

“I am frankly sick at this defense of child abusers.”

Who’s defending Jamin?

James
Guest
James

For said casual reader, the abuse began at the age of 14 and was perpetrated by a 25 year old man. Most of us consider 14 year olds a child and find the act abhorrent. I’m not sure why Dave believes this is so “messy”. Anyone who has a 14 year old daughter and feels that she can appropriately consent to a sexual relationship with a 25 year old man is welcome to feel differently…..

insanitybytes22
Member

For the casual reader, I believe the abuse is over a decade old, the authorities were notified, charges were filed, and a conviction happened. Is that not true?

Isn’t that kind of the ideal response that we want to see happen in our churches?

Dave
Guest
Dave

Her Dad felt so, didn’t he James? After all, he set it up just like dominos in a row and sure enough they all fell over. Now, after a decade everyone is after the clean up crew for causing the mess. This fourteen year old was reasonable and had knowledge of right and wrong and chose incorrectly. Yes, most social justice warriors consider anyone a child when it fits their narrative no matter what their age; however, in today’s society, fourteen year old individuals are very astute about this subject. No one says this wasn’t a bad situation. Pray for… Read more »

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

I am not sure that she could give meaningful consent. I think that, for a skilled older predator, getting a 14-year-old girl to consent to sexual activity is probably easier than taking candy from a baby. Which is why no parent I have ever met would have contemplated for one minute allowing a grown man around the clock access to his young daughter. Consider the mixed messages she must have received. Yes, young girls get crushes on men in their twenties, and parents roll their eyes and wait for them to outgrow them. They don’t invite the men to move… Read more »

Dave
Guest
Dave

Jilly, meaningful consent would be legal consent but there was consent. How many other teenagers pushed men or teens away when faced with the similar decisions? More than this blog can list is how many screamed, hit, got up and walked away, told their parents and so on. She could have easily told her parents the first time Wight approached her; but she didn’t. Mixed signals were obviously in play because her Dad set up a bad situation and allowed it to continue to the end. Calling a lie a lie may seem harsh, but right now it is similar… Read more »

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

I do pray for her and everyone involved. I understand your point about consent, but I can’t agree all the way. Yes, many teens would have pushed him away and yelled for help. But some teens who could successfully have pushed away an amorous boy their own age don’t do that when the perpetrator is an adult. I would be hesitant to go down any road that seemed to suggest 14-year-old boys molested by priests ought to have simply pushed them off and were therefore complicit in their abuse. We all hope to raise strong, resilient, confident teens who can… Read more »

Dave
Guest
Dave

Thank you for praying. Please continue to do so. The cut and dried attitude is only from this being examined so much. Natalie’s abuse was believed as soon as the church knew about it and immediate action taken. The set up was at home and that is where the problem started and finished. Unfortunately, there are always those who will make a poor choice for multitudes of seemingly valid, but really excuses. this is not confined to teenagers, but extends into men and women of all ages. This situation is about sex, but if you listen to your friends, today’s… Read more »

Christopher
Member

Who was it that brought Natalie into this post? Doug made no mention of her.

James
Guest
James

Then what is the purpose of this post? For a pastor to appropriately be using satire he should be poking fun at something he believes is a prevalent issue and that shedding light on it will have some biblically positive benefit. But lets be honest, married woman faking abuse and writing about it on survivor blogs is not a prevalent issue of our time and is much less common than real victims who blog about their abuse and catch flack for it. Once again Doug is building a caricature that doesn’t have significant or relevant basis in reality but that… Read more »

adad0
Member

Are you a Lundy Bancroft fan as well?
Did you know he is a cult founder? (Aka, blind guide.)

Getting back to Joseph, was he “abused”? Potiphar’s wife was not abused by Joseph.

Dave
Guest
Dave

Carolyn, you brought up the individual, not Potiphar’s wife. So, the abuse started when she was 14. When did it end? Why did her Dad sit on the information for six months? Why is everyone so upset when the church took action as soon as it was disclosed by her family?

“Being a Christ follower means confessing, repenting and turning away.” That is what the individual you mentioned needs to do. She is not telling the whole story at all.

br
Guest
br

Why does it matter what age it began or started at? Abuse is abuse. If she was an adult, would you say it was not sexual abuse? Have you ever heard of grooming? Have you ever heard of abusers lying and manipulating? Where you there, Dave?

insanitybytes22
Member

“If she was an adult, would you say it was not sexual abuse? Have you ever heard of grooming?”

Generally adults are presumed to have full autonomy and to be competent, therefore one cannot groom them into sexual abuse. If she were an adult then it would not have been abuse.

br
Guest
br

That’s a false understanding actually. When there is a difference in power dynamics grooming can actually take place between adults as well. Pimps do this with children, but they also do this with adult women and men as well. So you’re saying sexual abuse can only happen between an adult and a child? Is rape- when a man rapes a woman (both adults)- not sexual abuse in your mind?

insanitybytes22
Member

There is no way you are going to convince me that an adult woman with full cognitive abilities can be groomed into sexual abuse. If that were true than we are all perpetual children with no autonomy or powers of discernment.

Unless there are some glaring disabilities, adults are above the age of consent.

Ken Griffith
Guest
Ken Griffith

This is the irony of victimhood feminism. If even adult women cannot be held liable and responsible for their own decisions, the logical conclusion is that all women should be legally treated as minors under the guardianship of a man. That puts them right back in the 18th century.

Dave
Guest
Dave

Have you ever heard of anyone else lying and manipulating, Brooke? This has been going on for 10 years. Were you here when two ladies in town testified in front of the County Commissioners meeting that they only “wanted to get Christ Church?” Were you here when Gary Greenfield set his teenage daughter up in a courtship relationship and placed the man next door to her room instead of bunking him with the other boys elsewhere? Were you here when the church took immediate action upon being notified of this problem? Were you here when the church tried to help… Read more »

Lightandlife
Guest
Lightandlife

“As I have said before, there was abuse and there was consent. Natalie was aware of what she was doing and doesn’t want to face the facts. She waited years to tell her folks and her Dad waited six months to tell the church.”

Spoken like someone who has never been abused……

Christopher
Member

I’ve never been to Spain but I can say that the capital is Madrid. It would be a serious error to say that only people who have been abused can talk about abuse.

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

Are you quoting Three Dog Night again?

Christopher
Member

I didn’t recall that was their song, but yes.

Dave
Guest
Dave

Light should be spread upon the darkness rather than hid under a bushel. The truth is hidden by Natalie’s lies and instead of bringing life and light her lies give her continuing hardship and struggles. Maybe you don’t understand that she is a sister in Christ and needs to repent and give her problems to Christ. Light, Natalie is not the Lone Rangerette here. There are plenty of others who experienced sexual abuse and kept kneeling at the foot of the cross. Natalie had full reasoning capability, she knew right from wrong, and she chose the wrong path to travel… Read more »

insanitybytes22
Member

Actually, the one really making a mockery of abuse survivors is Potiphar’s wife. In the bible she actually sends an innocent man to jail and in Wilson’s version she is co-opting the experiences of genuine victims, justifying her own bad behavior, and making false allegations.

holmegm
Guest
holmegm

You do know that false allegations happen, right? And not just from Potiphar’s wife?

fp
Guest
fp

I highly recommend counselor Patrick Doyle.

Apparently, so does Potiphar’s wife.

Daniel Fisher
Member

Carolyn,
You did catch that Pastor Wilson was poking fun at those who did NOT experience abuse, but who made a false accusation? I don’t know your familiarity with the Old Testament, so forgive me if I’m insulting your intelligence – but Potiphar’s wife was in fact not abused by Joseph; nonetheless, she brought a completely false and fabricated accusation of rape against him.
If you’re familiar with the story, it is hard to miss that Pastor Wilson is “poking fun” at liars, and categorically not at abuse survivors.

spworwell
Guest
spworwell

Potiphar’s wife… was not an abuse survivor. Calling her such is to confuse good with evil.

Clay Crouch
Guest
Clay Crouch

You’re a little late to the party. Let me get you up to speed. She isn’t calling Potiphar’s wife an abuse survivor. Mr. Wilson is equating Ms. Potipher with Ms. Greenfield. You want to defend that? Good luck.

Christopher
Member

“Mr. Wilson is equating Ms. Potipher with Ms. Greenfield.”

Where is he doing that?

Jane
Member

What abuse survivors? There are no abuse survivors anywhere in this story…well, I suppose you could call Joseph that. And he’s not being made fun of.

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

Oh dear, Jane, back to re-education for you. If you feel you’ve been abused, you’ve been abused. What is reality compared to your feelings and subjective perceptions?

It would be cruel to be derisive and skeptical of a woman who reports abuse. But she is not entitled to automatic belief–from her loved ones, perhaps, but not from the authorities. We did that with children in the 1980s, and we locked up a whole bunch of people who turned out not to be sacrificing animals in underground tunnels.

John Peterson
Guest
John Peterson

Instead of obeying the biblical mandates of leadership, you cowardly slander and name call behind the guise of story telling. You sling logically invalid attacks on others and when they react you have already constructed a false narrative to hide behind and label them. You complain about Potiphar’s wife’s story telling and fictions accounts, so you construct your own? You preach against N.P.’s codependent need to justify herself, so you do the same? You claim to be victim with attacking another? You have maliciously edited God’s Word from “Blessed are the peace keepers” to “Blessed are the jackasses.” You have… Read more »

Dave
Guest
Dave

Wow! John is sure on a high horse.

John, why do you blame Wilson when her own Dad set up the abuse scenario and then sat on the problem for six months after he became aware of it?

John Peterson
Guest
John Peterson

Only trying to get high enough so that I might be on the same level as DW and followers.

Also, thanks for responding in the predictable way.

Dave
Guest
Dave

No, John. I am disgusted with comments as you left above which is in the same manner as a prostitute wiping her mouth and saying I have done nothing wrong.

You can’t answer the simple question posed to you. Why do you blame Wilson when her own Dad set up the abuse scenario and then sat on the problem for six months after he became aware of it?

Stop your false accusations. Just stop.

John Peterson
Guest
John Peterson

Dave, if I’m the prostitute that must make you the customer. I never blamed Wilson for N.P.’s scenario. There’s your simple answer to the question you asked as a deflection from the actual accusations made.

What is disgusting is constructing a fictitious narrative in which you can systematically dismantle your enemy and they are unable to respond and, in the end, feel vindicated. Nothing comes of this other than gloating and demonizing. This is not reconciliation but revenge.

And remember, even a prostitute can be found more righteous than a patriarch.

Dave
Guest
Dave

John, you still act like a prostitute and you deflect criticism as a prostitute does. I am not your john, but I am just a guy drinking coffee on the sidewalk watching what is going on and glorifying God in the highest. “Instead of obeying the biblical mandates of leadership, you cowardly slander and name call behind the guise of story telling. You sling logically invalid attacks on others and when they react you have already constructed a false narrative to hide behind and label them.” JP Wow! Just wow. That is completely false as it is Natalie who is… Read more »

John Peterson
Guest
John Peterson

“I am just a guy drinking coffee on the sidewalk watching what is going on and glorifying God in the highest.”

…not sure if I should laugh…get a drink…or just walk away as this seems to prove much of my point(s).

“JP Wow! Just wow. That is completely false as it is Natalie who is running the false narrative.”

No…actually. DW has literally just constructed a fictional story.

Your comments about Natalie show that you are still missing my actual accusations seeing that I never made an accusation concerning that specific event. It is not that that spoke against.

Dave
Guest
Dave

JP, your comments and mine are in line with the discussion. The fictional story concerning Potiphar’s wife is just that — fiction. It is not bashing anyone as that is only your incorrect interpretation. Your complaints support Natalie’s lies and that is where the problem is. You think Wilson is not giving leadership and yet this thread is a call for repentance. It is a clear call for her to tell the truth. You missed that completely. For almost 20 years, I have watched those who hate God here in Moscow try all sorts of tricks and now I am… Read more »

John Peterson
Guest
John Peterson

I never brought up Natalie – that was you. It was not I that interpreted it but you that assumed that I did. But I don’t blame you. DW’s use of N.P. is a not so subtle reference to Natalie in the “comments” of his fictitious work. My claims were (and still are) made in isolation of “Natalie’s lies” (however, I wonder how you can know they are in fact lies). My comments are a call for DW and the flock he influences to heed Jesus’ words in Matthew 23. You missed that completely. I find it amusing that you… Read more »

Dave
Guest
Dave

Goodnight John. You are wrong. Just wrong.

Pray for Natalie and everyone involved in this situation.

br
Guest
br

Do you know any prostitutes? I do. Many. Comments like that are why many women remained trapped. Maybe you should look behind the reason women/children are commericially sexually exploited, rather than the behavior. Maybe you should inform yourself before commenting so self-righteously about the pain I witness every day from the women who have been in this bondage.

holmegm
Guest
holmegm

He was quoting Proverbs. Take it up with the Author.

Jsm
Guest
Jsm

We can all be thankful John is here leading the way in modeling how to avoid cowardly slander. He eschews arrogance, self righteousness, and antagonism. Its wonderful to finally have a shining example in our midst.

John Peterson
Guest
John Peterson

Hypothesis developed. Tested. Confirmed. Thank you.

fp
Guest
fp

John, are you a satire victim? If so, you have my sincerest apologies. I can’t imagine what you must be going through.

Did you know that 1 in 5 internet commenters who attend college are satire victims? And to make matters worse, most satirists are male.

Something must be done. Therefore, I have a Modest Proposal:

Let’s raise awareness against satire culture. Speak out against satire; make it known that satire isn’t a joke. Even if you speak provocatively, let it be known that you have every right not to be satirically assaulted.

Smash the satriarchy!

John Peterson
Guest
John Peterson

Indeed! Satire works best when it works for us. And no one speaks as well provocatively as our dear DW. These attacks are deserve no consideration of their validity as it obvious that they originate from fools and reprobates. Surely, our dear DW is without sin and in no need of repentance. Surely he is faultless. His word is authoritative and rule blessed. His theology inerrant and actions pure. Far be it that we ever consider that he may have or will ever do anything worthy of penance.

fp
Guest
fp

John, are you a satirist?

John Peterson
Guest
John Peterson

psshhttt…. There are no satirists here!

fp
Guest
fp

I understand it’s common for victims to lash out, but you might consider lightening up on the dark sarcasm in the classroom there, Johnny boy.

John Peterson
Guest
John Peterson

I apologize for victimizing you but I just was taking my cues from the proprietor and chief cook of Blog & Mablog.

fp
Guest
fp

I didn’t feel victimized in the least. But I do want to speak out on behalf of all the other victims of your dark sarcasm.

After all, there is nothing more moral and righteous than taking offense, no matter how minor or quibbling, on behalf of others.

John Peterson
Guest
John Peterson

Well, that sure is kind of you – taking up the cause of the victim and helping restore their voice that was taken by their abusers! I apologize if DW’s dark sacrasm has rubbed off to much on me (him leading by example and all). But I appreciate you taking offense on behalf of others.

fp
Guest
fp

No problem. I wanted to show you just how much I care about others, and that, by taking up offenses on their behalf, I’m a better person than you.

While we’re on the subject of caring, you might consider familiarizing yourself with the difference between sarcasm and satire. Part of caring for people is caring for their vocabularies, you know.

I share because I care.

insanitybytes22
Member

“I will always be his victim. I will never forget that afternoon, his rugged profile, his strong muscular forearms . . . actually, please excuse me.”

Oh come now, that is downright biblical! The bible tells us Joseph was a “very handsome man” and he’s wearing a cloak for crying out loud! The cloak is really pushing it, I mean that’s worse than a man in uniform!

I’m afraid Pastor Wilson has really nailed it here. So many good points. Well done.

Kevin Bratcher
Guest

If this was intended as a satire of the actual false witnesses in today’s culture, it was well done.
But given that some readers would inevitably presume you’re attempting to make light of real abuse victims, especially one whose story regularly lights the blog in controversy, I have to wonder: Why write it?

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

I agree with you, while thinking it is a great pity that we seem to have lost all sense of balance. Isn’t it possible for two things to be equally true: that some men are rapists, and that some women falsely report rape? And that if we are so polarized that we invariably believe one statement but not the other, we have neither justice nor charity to offer.

Kevin Bratcher
Guest

No one really wants justice anymore…even many Christians only seek to exact vengeance these days.

Every narrative-affirming complaint is automatically true, and every narrative-denying complaint is automatically false.

But, there are better ways to discuss the unjust world than a satirical story that would be mistaken by certain people as mockery of real abuse.

bethyada
Member

How can it be a mockery of real abuse? The whole point of using Potiphar’s wife is we know the true story and that this post must be a lie.

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

I would much rather think of her as calculatingly evil rather than dopy and self-deluded.

Kevin Bratcher
Guest

Right, but given the existence of the Wight case, detractors will read the OP as passive-aggressive mockery specifically of Greenfield, rather than seeing it as a satire on the real issue of false accusations and the injustice being created in the world now as a result of poor standards of evidence.

So basically I just think there’s a better way to go about having this conversation.

Then again, it would be impossible for Wilson to say anything resembling Proverbs 18:17 without someone claiming he was saying all victims are liars. So there’s that. I just hate controversy of this kind.

adad0
Member

“I just hate controversy of this kind.”

And yet Wilson is apparently led to wade right in!
Even Jesus kept going back to the Temple.

‘Wonder Who is Lord over all this? ; – )

Certainly not me!

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

I would like to devise a system whereby the first person who brings up the Greenfield case has to pay a fine to the rest of us.

adad0
Member

Jilly, I read this post, as being all about balance, especially in the face of injustice.
Joseph was a righteous boy, and a prophet. What did that get him?
Sold into slavery by his own brothers, and falsely accused by his admirers. (the wife)

Joseph always hoped for Justice, and he eventually got it, in ways he could never have imagined, because he had faith in God, and perservered in difficulty! ; -)

How many people can handle momentary and servere injustice as well as Joseph?

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

He was incredibly forgiving towards his brothers. I wonder if he always felt bad that he was the favorite son. That is such an unfair burden to place upon a child.

adad0
Member

Joseph knew that The Lord was with him. Having God with you, no doubt, makes one more charitable!

And I'm Cute, Too
Guest
And I'm Cute, Too

Forgiving towards his brothers? Yes, he was. But Joseph also had the sense not to trust them right away. After what they’d done to him, he had to test them first, and make sure that they had changed. Yet another good example from him.

wackytobeme
Member

I suspect that this is at the heart of all the anger, slander and mis-characterizing of Pastor Wilson. Knowing that he preaches, teaches and gives counsel from all the Bible, he most likely at some point advised the victim to forgive their abuser, you know like Jesus said, and that just did not sit well. That and/or also, probably advising them to repent of any sins that they and others had committed that contributed to their situations (which clearly are no justification for the abuser’s sins)

adad0
Member

That, Mrs. Mac, one could gather from public statements by both Natalie and Wilson. However, the heart of this matter also has an aspect of spiritual warfare. Many of Wilson’s local, and internet detractors, are taken in by “A Cry for Justice”, a blind guide internet “ministry” partially based in Tillamook OR. “A Cry for Justice” is taken in by a cult founding charlatan “abuse expert”, by the name of Lundy Bancroft. Here is Bacroft anouncing his cult: http://transitiontoanewworld.blogspot.com/2011/03/new-spiritual-community.html Most “over the top” fake “abuse ministries”, like A Cry for Justice, depend on and reccomend Bancroft, for their alledged “expertise”.… Read more »

wackytobeme
Member

Yes, I’m quite sure, my statements are only in regard to what I have read here and from Natalie, I try to limit how far out I venture on the web. I was intending to do something productive, then accidentally fell into Facebook, :-)

insanitybytes22
Member

Something I always find interesting, Joseph is actually the victim. His brothers throw him into a pit, sell him into slavery. Potiphar’s wife falsely accuses him of rape, he loses everything, and he’s thrown in prison.

So Joseph is a “real abuse victim,” and the only just thing to do is to speak out against the abuse being done to him.

Potiphar’s wife in this case is not a victim at all, except perhaps of some predatory therapy and her own lack of self awareness.

Dave
Guest
Dave

Interested readers may want to look into the story of Nikki Yovino. In today’s tawdry society, both sides have to be considered. Of course there are plenty of similar stories online and there are plenty of straight up lies such as Potiphar’s wife made and there are plenty of actual rapes. We are to seek out the truth.

Scripture is full of admonishments reminding us to keep out of iffy situations. As the old saying goes, “Nothing good happens after midnight.”

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

I thought only my mother said that! Along with, “When you go off in twosomes, the devil makes a third!”

Dave
Guest
Dave

Jilly, it is still spoken in parts of the USofA. The cops tend to use 2 AM as the cutoff because that’s when bars close and when gangbangers are finishing their illegal business and are heading for home.

adad0
Member

Where is Sabrina Rubin Erdely when you need her?
Oh right! Being sued for fake news!

Ian Miller
Member

I thought she already lost?

adad0
Member

Sabrina and the RS lost the UVA administrator’s suit against them. The suit by the Frat against Sabrina and the RS has yet to be heard and tried.
Finacially, I don’t think RS can survive the suits, and I don’t think they will be able to pay current and future judgements against them.
Here is the thing. What is it like to be Sabrina? How would you even pray for her. Or, What will God make out of those ashes?

Ian Miller
Member

Pray that she will repent and find the grace that has always been offered to her? Dunno if there’s anything more specific – since that’s what we all need.

jigawatt
Guest
jigawatt

Where is Sabrina Rubin Erdely when you need her?
Oh right! Being sued for fake news!

But Joe Alleva is currently making no less than $725,000/yr as LSU’s AD.

insanitybytes22
Member

Yes, BUT, here is what gives people qualms about Pastor Wilson. We know there were genuine sex abuse victims around him and we are hesitant about how well those victims were heard. So when the message than becomes, “well, women and girls always lie about rape” rather than reassuring us that victims are protected, it causes us to wonder how much bias there really is.

Dave
Guest
Dave

ME, your background is showing again — don’t get mad. All of struggle with something and I understand getting mad also. That did not happen here in either case. In fact, the message is not “girls lie about rape,” but rather take action now. It is the same message from a decade ago. Action was taken as soon as the situation was revealed. Why that point keeps getting covered up in internet chatter is amazing. In this case, the bias is hugely against Wilson because of the disinformation put on the web by those who just hate God and will… Read more »

insanitybytes22
Member

“ME, your background is showing again — don’t get mad.”

Thanks Dave, much appreciated. I’m not mad, just mildly concerned about how we as a culture like to swing from one extreme to the other.

Dave
Guest
Dave

OK. Please keep praying for everyone involved in this situation. All of us must remember that the prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

wackytobeme
Member

“We know there were genuine sex abuse victims around him and we are hesitant about how well those victims were heard.” As far as I know, there are ONLY two that are publicly known about*, and only one of them is speaking out publicly, and in her case as far as I know, Pastor Wilson has never denied her abuse or said she lied about it.
*I am sure he has counseled many more, but thankfully, they are not being broadcast over the whole cyberweb.

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

I think that in a well-intentioned desire to support rape victims, we are all too willing to toss out the presumption of innocence. I have been yelled at by other women for pointing out that, just like accused robbers, carjackers, and murderers, men accused of rape are entitled to the presumption of innocence. I am not prepared to throw out centuries of the fairest legal system in human history to appease people who say that accusation equals proof.

Jennie
Member

I remember hearing a speech by an attorney from Kansas who had made a career of defending unjustly accused men who were being charged with rape and child abuse from vengeful ex-wives. It was sad to hear how the men were automatically considered guilty. This happens much more than we are aware.

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

My lawyer tried her darndest to get me to say my husband had been abusive during the marriage. When vengeful ex-wives fall into the hands of unethical attorneys, this is what happens. I am always astonished that people who are not otherwise criminal are willing to tell lies in court.

Bike bubba
Guest

You mean “nothing good happens after midnight unless you’re with your wife”, don’t you? :^)

Seriously, the point you make is well taken. As I write this, there are over 130 comments basically arguing over whether a hypothetical story about whether the false accusation of Potiphar’s wife would somehow discredit real claims of abuse. Um, no. Shouldn’t we be content with that?

And I'm Cute, Too
Guest
And I'm Cute, Too

No, Bubba. Not when this post comes from the likes of Wilson. I can’t see this as anything other than a cheap shot at Natalie.

To me, it’s no different from the introduction that Al Mohler gave to Mahaney at the T4G conference last spring. Mohler told a sick, tasteless, disgusting joke clearly aimed at Mahaney’s online critics and at the protesters camped right outside the conference venue. But with just enough plausible deniability to snow his cohorts and disciples. Wilson’s playing the same game here.

Dave
Guest
Dave

BB, it should suffice but there are plenty of Internet warriors like Cute who just want to bash. They can’t see that they are wrong so they double down on the bashing. They lack discernment in Scripture and in life.

insanitybytes22
Member

“My father had always been distant, remote. As Ra would have it, my husband turned out to be the same kind of man, exactly the same kind of man.” This cracked me up. So many of us do exactly that and than blame it entirely on Ra or men or bad luck or something. It’s a bit of a harsh truth, but if you marry a man just like all the other men you’ve known, there’s really only one common denominator there, you. Another bit of harsh truth, but if you find yourself with a difficult spouse, well, you chose… Read more »

Tim
Guest

Doug, as a pastor you are supposed to be the one a victim feels safest coming to. This post doesn’t seem likely to achieve that end. While a non victim reader might like your aggressive satire, anyone presently experiencing the devastation of abuse won’t see this post as showing your approachability in being ready and able to carry out your pastoral duties. I expect those who like your post might accuse me of being humorless. Agreed. Not all satire is humor, and your post is a good example of this. So I’m prepared to be dismissed as someone who just… Read more »

adad0
Member

Tim, take heart. The casualty (victim) in Genesis 39 was Joseph, not Potiphar’s wife

Wilson’s post here is quite supportive of men who have been abused by dishonest women, as Joseph was, in this Bible passage.

Fair enough?

insanitybytes22
Member

Hmmm, I’m still debating Tim’s words. While I absolutely love that he gets the issue of safety and that is so vitally important, just how safe is poor Joseph going to feel? What are someone’s “pastoral duties” to him?

adad0
Member

As always Memi, when we look to The Word, as I just did, Joseph was pretty well covered ! ; – ) Genesis 39 “But while Joseph was there in the prison, 21 the Lord was with him; he showed him kindness and granted him favor in the eyes of the prison warden. 22 So the warden put Joseph in charge of all those held in the prison, and he was made responsible for all that was done there. 23 The warden paid no attention to anything under Joseph’s care, because the Lord was with Joseph and gave him success… Read more »

jigawatt
Guest
jigawatt

Tim, take heart. The casualty (victim) in Genesis 39 was Joseph, not Potiphar’s wife

^^This.

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

I understand your point. I think that Doug’s manner with his flock in real life is probably different from his writing on a polemical board. I also expect that those who turn to him for pastoral counseling see a different side and don’t feel that he has pre-judged them as untruthful. I think the whole issue of how to treat abuse is a hot mess, and nobody right now is getting it right. I used to believe that abuse victims did not lie until two men I know were accused of child abuse arising from ugly divorces. I have known… Read more »

And I'm Cute, Too
Guest
And I'm Cute, Too

I expect those who like your post might accuse me of being humorless. Agreed. Not all satire is humor, and your post is a good example of this.

Right on, Tim. This post isn’t humour. It’s just plain venom.
Why should we have a sense of humour about rape or sexual abuse anyway?

Dave
Guest
Dave

Should we have a sense of humor when liars redirect their anger toward God at preachers? Should we ask the liar to stop telling tales or should we just say “oh you poor thing?”

Or perhaps we should just stop and smell the rose along the way.

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

If I had been in that situation, I think my anger as an adult would be directed at my parents. My mother and father expected me to be chaste as a teenager, but they did their very best to guard, shield, and protect me–not only from anyone who might conceivably be a predator, such as a grown man who seemed to be interested in me, but also from the hormonal activity of normal teenaged boys–and mine as well. Once there was the least suspicion that there was attraction on either side, why was he allowed to go on living there?… Read more »

And I'm Cute, Too
Guest
And I'm Cute, Too

I don’t blame this girl at all…

Good for you, Jill. In my estimation, that puts you miles ahead of Dave. And Wilson, for that matter.

And I'm Cute, Too
Guest
And I'm Cute, Too

Oh, so this post is about Natalie after all. Thanks for the confirmation, Dave.

ETA: I’m well aware that Wilson and his disciples consider Natalie to be a liar. But I’ve yet to see where they’ve proven that. Whereas Wilson is a proven historical revisionist, slavery apologist and plagiarist.

Dave
Guest
Dave

Cute,I don’t think the post is about Natalie; however, I made some comments when others said things that weren’t on the level. Here, you use Natalie as a crutch, but your complete hatred for Wilson shows in your posts for all to see. The hatred and envy exudes from the typed words. Public documents show quite well that Natalie is lying. No amount of cuteness will get around that. The Bible is full of examples of falling away, of forgiveness and return to a Godly life. Gardening is used frequently. If you have a rose bush that only has thorns,… Read more »

And I'm Cute, Too
Guest
And I'm Cute, Too

Here, you use Natalie as a crutch, but your complete hatred for Wilson shows in your posts for all to see.

I don’t hate Wilson. But there’s no way that I trust him, or see him as a pastor. To me, he’s just a power-hungry misogynist, and a wolf in cheap clothing. (Apologies to Bugs Bunny for stealing his line.)

Public documents show quite well that Natalie is lying.

Which documents?

Mary
Guest

Agreed. Not funny, satire or not.

Leslie Lea
Guest
Leslie Lea

Comment comments are closed?

adad0
Member

Yes, when a challenge to the initial narrative crops up, the conversation is often ended by the “brave”, “strong” “survivor”. As in Genesis 39: 16 She kept his cloak beside her until his master came home. 17 Then she told him this story: “That Hebrew slave you brought us came to me to make sport of me. 18 But as soon as I screamed for help, he left his cloak beside me and ran out of the house.” 19 When his master heard the story his wife told him, saying, “This is how your slave treated me,” he burned with… Read more »

Leslie Lea
Guest
Leslie Lea

I do not understand why the continual spewing of disinformation continues. Really!! Abuse happened under your watch. Man up and deal with it in a Godly way or shut up.

insanitybytes22
Member

I’m kind of curious what you would have them do? Am I right, this case is over a decade old and there was already a trial and a conviction?

One really can’t “do” anymore than that.

Dave
Guest
Dave

LL, it would be nice if it were that simple. This is being dealt with in a Godly manner and Natalie needs to confess and repent. Wilson is telling the truth; however, there is a dedicated group of individuals who hate God who are continuing to do everything they can to discredit Wilson and Christ Church. These individuals post various choice tidbits that as Proverbs points out go down to the inmost parts for those people who lack discernment. That practice has been ongoing for decades and you are caught believing disinformation instead of truth. It would be nice if… Read more »

Wendy
Guest
Wendy

Just what does Natalie need to repent of? That she was a victim of statutory rape?

Dave
Guest
Dave

Wendy, you haven’t read all the stuff she posted on her blog and elsewhere. There is plenty that is plainly obvious and blaming Wilson and Christ Church for her mistakes is one of them.

Please pray for Natalie and everyone else involved.

Wendy
Guest
Wendy

I have indeed. I ask again, just what does Natalie need to repent of?

Dave
Guest
Dave

Did you look at her tweet above? That is one thing Natalie needs to repent about. Wendy, is that tweet Godly at all?

Do you know exactly what Wilson or Christ Church did to harm her? No one turned away from her, she turned away from the church and now blames everyone else.

Just pray for Natalie and everyone in this situation.

Mo0nangel
Guest
Mo0nangel

https://www.google.com/amp/s/homeschoolersanonymous.org/2015/09/08/the-jamin-c-wight-story-the-other-child-molester-in-doug-wilsons-closet/amp/
You need to read this. Wight was not the only sexual abuser Wilson has defended. And Wight has abused after the fact.
A 13 year old is never at fault of sexual abuse. A 25 year old man knows better.
We all need to be reminded of what God’s word says about our speech and how it should be uplifting and of blessing to others.

Lance Roberts
Guest

Wow, you didn’t even read what he just said to you.

Dave
Guest
Dave

“Grab your hand sanitizer, this is NASTY stuff. Let’s continue exposing this crooked pastor for what he is.” Natalie Greenfield 23 Feb 17 This is why there are so many posts about Natalie. She won’t tell the truth but instead tweets and posts falsehoods on a regular basis. It is past time for Natalie to grow up instead of acting like a twelve year old girl. No matter how hard she presses now, the facts from a decade ago do not support her narrative today. Natalie tweets and blogs like a SJW not a Christian and that is where the… Read more »

Mo0nangel
Guest
Mo0nangel

Have you read her blog? Are you privy to all the details of this case? Do you know that Wight was accused of sexually abusing again after Natalie?
And what about the Stitler case? Another sexual abuser defended by Wilson.

Christopher
Member

Not dave, but..
“Have you read her blog?”
yes
“Are you privy to all the details of this case?”
no
“Do you know that Wight was accused of sexually abusing again after Natalie?”
yes
“And what about the Stitler case? Another sexual abuser defended by Wilson.”
If turned over to the authorities counts as defending.

Bibcnsl
Guest
Bibcnsl

At first, I thought some of the negative reactions were a bit ironic and involved an assumption of ill intent on the part of our host.

Now, I am beginning to wonder if we are dealing with either a simple reading comprehension problem, or a blinding rage that prevents individuals from being able to understand the intent of the article.

It is a shame that Todd Pruitt and Amy Byrd, seem to be suffering from this same malady.

And I'm Cute, Too
Guest
And I'm Cute, Too

No problems in comprehension at all. Wilson’s misogyny and arrogance are well known by now.
Oooh, are Todd and Amiee raking Wilson over the coals, too? Good to hear! Those two still have a ways to go (they still subscribe to the nonsense that is gender complementarianism), but they know abusive behavior by pastors when they see it. Gotta look them up…

adad0
Member

Cute,
It’s “heap burning coals”, not “rake over coals”.
See Romans 12:14-21.

And I'm Cute, Too
Guest
And I'm Cute, Too

As I recall, Jesus didn’t bother playing nicey-nice with the Pharisees. He didn’t hesitate to call out their behaviour, and in very harsh terms, too.

Dave
Guest
Dave

So what’s wrong with pointing out Natalie’s lies?

And I'm Cute, Too
Guest
And I'm Cute, Too

And how exactly has she lied? I find her a lot more believable than a plagiarist and AIDS denier like Wilson.

Dave
Guest
Dave

Her tweet above is one lie. There have been plenty others discussed here previously and shown to be just that — lies. Actually, I read the posts on Women Freed, which Valerie linked, and I believe them considerably more than I believe your cute accusations and attempts to disregard that which was already proven false. I find that knowing Gary Greenfield, adult to adult, that I believe Wilson, the elders and the church members. Wilson confessed the plagiarism, explained what happened and what steps were taken to prevent further problems. Wight went to jail. What more could be done? That… Read more »

And I'm Cute, Too
Guest
And I'm Cute, Too

Wight went to jail. What more could be done? Yeah, Wight went to jail. Even after that, Wilson did plenty to Natalie that was wrong. Like sitting on Wight’s side of the courtroom, giving support to him instead of to her. Like his voyeuristic interview with her, probing for details of her sex life, under the guise of “counselling”. Like telling people at a Heads of Household meeting that her father Gary was just as abusive a husband as Wight, a claim which no one in the Greenfield family corroborates. Sure, Wilson managed to get some things right. But he’s… Read more »

Dave
Guest
Dave

Cute, Gary was abusive in setting up his daughter for this entire episode to happen. That is a fact and your emotional typing won’t change that. Non-Abusive parents don’t put guests in a room near their daughter. They don’t set up dating/courtship rules for the two. After becoming aware of a problem, they don’t sit on abuse for six months before notifying the church or the cops. And for sure they don’t blame others for their mistakes after the fact. Natalie lied to her parents and went behind their backs for years, participating in what she knew was wrong, violating… Read more »

Mo0nangel
Guest
Mo0nangel

Do you know anything about abuse victims?? Many want to speak out but the guilt and shame is too overwhelming. I have a friend who a pastors kid groomed and persuaded her a brand new believer that God approved them having sex because they were engaged so technically they were already married. She felt so used and when she finally spoke up the church turned their back on her. And look at that when Natalie spoke up they defended the 25 year old who should’ve known better. Was it unwise for the dad to have the young man nexdoor to… Read more »

Jane
Member

“Defending abusers by placing the blame on the victim” Framing this as always the zero sum game is the problem here. This has to STOP if we actually want to protect people from abuse before as well as after it happens. First, nobody’s blaming the “victim” in this scenario, but holding a third person as also having responsibility. Is it an error of judgment we’re able to sympathize with? Yes, but it’s a mistake to think “I can sympathize with that error of judgment” means “therefore there is nothing to be said about how the situation ought to have been… Read more »

insanitybytes22
Member

It seems to me that blaming the culture, your pastor, the church, a bit of satire, the legal system,are all forms of defending the abuser, as in just about everyone is to blame for what happened except the actual perp. I get the trauma of sexual abuse, the far reaching harm that tends to permeate every aspect of people’s lives, and yet I often wonder what makes it different from getting hit by a bus? Or hit by some life altering disease? We actually cripple people when we lose all perspective, mark them as damaged goods for life,as if the… Read more »

And I'm Cute, Too
Guest
And I'm Cute, Too

Gary was abusive in setting up his daughter for this entire episode to happen. So, you’re claiming that a man who’s been groomed and deceived by a violent, teen-chasing creep is just as bad as that creep (who raped a teen over the course of years, and later strangled his own wife)? To that I say: Excrement. They don’t set up dating/courtship rules for the two. There. Was. No. Courtship. Natalie has said this time and again, and I’ll believe her over Wilson any day. Natalie lied to her parents and went behind their backs for years… This is how… Read more »

insanitybytes22
Member

“So, you’re claiming that a man who’s been groomed and deceived by a violent, teen-chasing creep is just as bad as that creep…” If that rule applies, I’m always curious why then does Wilson always gets the brunt of the anger? Wilson and the church were blindsided by this thing long after the fact, way after it happened. First off in the line of accountability, there’s a perpetrator, than there’s a mom and dad who failed to protect, than there’s the entire legal system, than there are therapists, a whole team of people who likely dropped the ball in someway,… Read more »

And I'm Cute, Too
Guest
And I'm Cute, Too

I can’t speak for others, but I don’t lay blame on Wilson for the sexual abuse that Natalie endured. Rather, I fault him for harming her afterwards by various forms of spiritual abuse — by loading her with unnecessary guilt, supporting Wight instead of her during the trial, prying into her sex life, and smearing her when she finally decided to speak out.
These are not the actions of a man of God… or at least of any God that I’d want to follow.

momzilla76
Guest
momzilla76

One points out lies in a normal manner and then lets go, leaving the toxic people to be toxic people. If the issue needs revisited and no new info has come up you redirect/link back to the truth already written. One does not play word games like a passive aggressive abuser and thinly veiled “satire”. Until this showed up in my news feed I had never heard of the situation. Something about the wording of the post combined with the comment storm got me digging. Comment storms alone usually do not. If it were not for this classic narcissist style… Read more »

Jane
Member

You do realize that this very obvious (not “thinly veiled”) satire had nothing to do with Natalie, and could not possibly logically do so, since Doug fully agreed that Natalie had been a victim, and this was about a false accusation?

Seeing a post on a different topic as a passive aggressive attack is a sign of something being amiss with the reader, not the writer.

adad0
Member

Matthew 23
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’[c]”

Cute, beware of unwillingness.
Look for desolate houses.
Look to see who is blessed,
and comes in the name of the Lord.

And I'm Cute, Too
Guest
And I'm Cute, Too

Cute, beware of unwillingness. Look for desolate houses. Look to see who is blessed, and comes in the name of the Lord. What, exactly, are you trying to say here? You make about as much sense as John Piper. Are you telling me to put my trust in Jesus? I already have. I’ve been a Christian for a few decades now. What do you mean by “desolate houses”? I’ve read plenty of stories from desolate women — women like Dr. Ruth Tucker and Marie Notcheva, who tried as hard as they could to obey the “gender comp” dreck that Wilson… Read more »

Bibcnsl
Guest
Bibcnsl

Out of curiosity, would you explain the point of the blog post as you understand it?

And I'm Cute, Too
Guest
And I'm Cute, Too

Sure. As far as I can see, this post is a backhanded, covert aggressive means of hitting back at Natalie Greenwood for accusing Wilson of spiritual abuse. She’s not under his control anymore, and he can’t keep her from speaking about her experiences. So to discredit her, Wilson depicts Potiphar’s wife as a man-hating blogger, as well as a liar. Clever in its own way, but hardly Christlike in any way that I can see.

Bibcnsl
Guest
Bibcnsl

Ok, if you didn’t assume awful things about his motivations, things which you cannot substantiate, and you had to base your interpretation on only what is found in the article, and not things that are not in there but you assume must be, then how would you read it?

Bibcnsl
Guest
Bibcnsl

In other words, if you were to give the benefit of the doubt, and assume there is some positive value to the post, and the motivations were not at all what you described, then what do you think that value would be? What could people, even people who hate Wilson, learn from the post?

And I'm Cute, Too
Guest
And I'm Cute, Too

You mean, if it were written by someone other than Wilson, and who wasn’t accused of spiritual abuse by a woman who’d suffered sexual abuse as a teen?

In that case, I might read it as an ironic characterization of a abusive narcissist, appealing to those he’s groomed by painting himself as the victim of someone obviously weaker and under his power. In fact, someone very much like Jamin Wight. But I can’t imagine Wilson intending that — doesn’t match his narrative.

Bibcnsl
Guest
Bibcnsl

It seems like background information almost entirely controls your understanding of the text, so much so that the text itself is entirely irrelevant to your analysis.

When I was in graduate school doing book reviews, we were taught to summarize the content of the book before making any interpretive statements.

It may help you to read more objectively if you start out by summarizing what is being said, then brainstorm available options for significance.

And I'm Cute, Too
Guest
And I'm Cute, Too

Oh, you’re asking me to focus on the content of this post, and ignore the context. Sorry, no can do. Not here. That’s the abuser’s game, and I’m not playing it.
This is not some academic exercise. This thing was not written in a vacuum. Wilson’s arrogance and contempt for women (and any men who disagree with him) colours everything he does online. I refuse to close my eyes to that.

Bibcnsl
Guest
Bibcnsl

It is interesting that your interpretation of Wilson’s post reads like fictional Amnon’s interpretation of Tamar in Wilson’s second post.

To use a comparable example, people who watch a lot of porn, think everything is about sex.

Perhaps your fixation with this subject, clouds your ability to see clearly?

And I'm Cute, Too
Guest
And I'm Cute, Too

Perhaps your fixation with this subject, clouds your ability to see clearly? What do you mean by “this subject”? Do you mean abusive pastors and church leaders, ones who hurt those they’re supposed to care for through false teaching, misogyny, legalism, or domineering behaviour? I care very much about that subject. Whether I’m “fixated” on it is hard for me to say. I’m not fixated on Wilson, I can tell you that. As you can tell from my commenting history, I don’t speak up here (or even read here) very often. But when I do, I don’t intend to mince… Read more »

melody
Member
melody

“…you’re asking me to focus on the content of this post, and ignore the context.” You just cleverly made Wilson’s case.

And I'm Cute, Too
Guest
And I'm Cute, Too

Really? How do you figure that?

Joey Wells
Guest
Joey Wells

Yep. All these people just got trolled. He wasn’t chumming. He was conducting an experiment.

valerieab
Member

If you’re not giving as much credence and attention to the testimony of the ladies who wrote the Women Freed blog as you do to any other victim’s testimony, you are not really concerned about discerning truth and pursuing justice.

Dave
Guest
Dave

Amen!

kirkland herman
Guest
kirkland herman

this was a creative way to show how far “rape culture” mentality has gotten out of hand on college campuses and how men are continually demonized as predators to be shunned by women and looked down on by society. The MGTOW movement would be appreciative of this post. Thanks Doug for your playful commentary on this issue. Ita an accurate portrayal of whats going on. It needs to be said despite the feminists and social justice warriors trying to silence men defending themselves from false accusations fueled by sexism.

And I'm Cute, Too
Guest
And I'm Cute, Too

The “MGTOW movement”? You mean the manosphere? I’ve spent no more than half-an-hour in that environment, and it felt like showering in toxic sludge.

Am I to understand that you’d consider their endorsement a good thing? I sure hope not…

Christa MacDonald
Guest
Christa MacDonald

What was the author’s objective in writing this? How is God glorified with this? I am having a hard time seeing anything Christ-like in this mocking, nasty post. I get it’s satire aimed at false accusers, but its hateful tone is going to drive a spike into the heart of any actual victim who reads it. There’s no defending that.

insanitybytes22
Member

I rather enjoyed the piece. I think it’s well written,a bit comical, and it really highlights some problems within our culture of perpetual victimology.

Christa MacDonald
Guest
Christa MacDonald

As I’m not likely to often come tot his blog, I’m guessing my opinion means little anyway. But I will leave you with this – As Christians, how we conduct ourselves in public, how we engage with unbelievers matters. Not just matters, it’s eternal life and death. Everything we put out into the world should reflect that. This does not.

adad0
Member

C’, your opinion means something. False accusations are hateful by their very nature, that comes through in this post. Jesus, the prophets and the apostles all spoke truth in public, and often encountered hateful false accusations.

Lance Roberts
Guest

It’s about justice, and is really just warning us that we all have to be careful when looking at these things from the outside.

melody
Member
melody

How was God glorified in writing the story of Joseph and Potiphar’s wife to begin with? How is God glorified in anything in the Old Testament? – Or even the New? What was Jesus thinking when he confronted the woman at the well with her sexual sin – in front of his disciples, no less?

mattmikalatos
Guest
mattmikalatos

Ezekiel 34:1-10

Leslie Lea
Guest
Leslie Lea

I love Katie Bitkins take on this post. http://www.kbotkin.com.

And I'm Cute, Too
Guest
And I'm Cute, Too

Yep, she got it right.

insanitybytes22
Member

I really am sorry if anyone was hurt or offended by this satire, but I honestly found it to be a delightful bit of writing with some good food for thought.

https://insanitybytes2.wordpress.com/2017/02/26/potiphars-wife-survivor/

Abc
Guest
Abc

Doug must have been low on blog views and comments.

Ken De Vries
Guest
Ken De Vries

LOL! This is the first time I read this! Well done! Accurately portrays the SJW, victim culture mindset.

Elizabeth
Guest
Elizabeth

Thank you so much for clarifying this for me! I always focused on Joseph’s faith and godliness in this story, aspiring to gain that kind of strength from my Savoir, as well. But you’ve helped me to see how wrong I was! Instead, you’ve helped us all to focus on the potential stumbling block with which God allowed Joseph to be confronted. Of course, this story is not about Joseph’s faithfulness! It’s about evil serpents… nasty women! All of us women are versions of Potiphar’s wife, slithering around, dragging godly men into Hell with us. For example, if I had… Read more »

And I'm Cute, Too
Guest
And I'm Cute, Too

Brava!

katie
Guest
katie

I’m sorry you have such a low view of woman. You should read the Bible. And Doug Wilson.

Elizabeth
Guest
Elizabeth

Katie, dear! I was being sarcastic! I know the Bible doesn’t teach these things! I know God loves and values all of His children! This Doug Wilson clown is simply your typical patriarchal “theologian” taking Scripture wildly out of context in order to maintain his position of control.

katie
Guest
katie

Since you’ve got sarcasm down, maybe you should work on logic next. Just because Scripture, in the story Doug Wilson references, says that some women lie about being victims, we ought not conclude that Scripture says all women lie about being victims. Of course, I didn’t read anything here about perfect husbands, female legs, or patriarchal control, so maybe add reading comprehension to the list of things to brush up on!

Jane
Member

Are you familiar with the word “projection”?

Evan
Guest
Evan

This comment couldn’t be any more tiresome. Get over yourself already. *yawn*

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

What puzzles me is that it is possible to find, on the Internet, men who really do hold the views and make the kinds of comments you are attributing to Doug Wilson. There are also people who greet these views with enthusiasm in the comment section. Why are you not concentrating your energies on opposing bloggers with views far more horrific than even your conjectures about Doug’s? When you claim he holds views (such as the impropriety of women wearing jeans and t-shirts) that people who read him regularly have never come across and find quite incredible, or suggest that… Read more »

melody
Member
melody

Thus far, no one has even mentioned the suffering Joseph endured because of her false accusation. Years in prison folks, for a man who was more than innocent. Am I the only woman who gets this?

insanitybytes22
Member

“Am I the only woman who gets this?”

Yes dear.You are a special snowflake.