A few years back I wrote about the lawfulness of lying in certain circumstances. But it also goes without saying that the prohibition of false witness is in the Ten Commandments, and that unlawful lying is a big deal.
Yesterday I wrote about Airbnb’s mandatory confession of faith before they will allow you to do business through them. Is it lawful to click that you agree, when in fact you do not agree? Is that “going underground” or is that simply being a lame Christian? Is that lawful deception or is it something less noble? This is far from an academic issue, particularly for Christians who work for large fairy-friendly corporations. There are multiple opportunities for the diversity officer to show up at your cubicle, in order to help the company stamp out diversity. But the diversity officer does not just want you to not rock the boat—he wants you to agree. You must sign off. You have to applaud. “We here in the Acme Widget community want to do our part to make this whole movement a little bit more like a North Korean missile parade.”
So is clicking Airbnb’s inane and contradictory affirmation the equivalent of clicking that you have read all of Apple’s most recent terms and conditions? Or is something much bigger at stake?
If the Gestapo ask you if you have Jews hidden in a secret room in your basement, and you do, you do not have to thank them for the opportunity to come clean. But if that same officer tells you to blaspheme the name of Christ in front of him, you must absolutely refuse. You cannot get off the hook by telling everyone that you sure fooled the enemy officer by pretending to be a coward. That wasn’t pretending, and the words came far too easily.
“Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels” (Mark 8:38).
In other words, there are times when the Hebrew midwives tell Pharaoh a story, and God blesses them for it. There was that other time when Peter denied that he knew Jesus, and the evening ended with him weeping bitterly. In short, there are times when God expects martyrdom from us, and there are times when He wants us to play it shrewd.
What category is this kind of politically correct pressure? They are hard after universal approval. That is why it takes the form of a confession of faith. Before doing business with us, they are insisting that we reject the plain teaching of Scripture, and that we accept their words instead, words drafted by recondite and shambolic minds.
The Christians who would not take the mark of the beast are praised in Scripture for their refusal to do so.
And Margaret Wilson was an 18-year-old Covenanter martyr, who died for refusing to take an oath that would acknowledge James VII as head of the church. She was willing to pray that God would in fact save the king, but she flatly refused to say, “God save the king.” As a result she was tied to a stake at low tide, and was cruelly drowned. Was that pointless? Can’t the words “God save the king” be taken in an innocent way? Sure—just as in the same way Airbnb’s feel-good tolerance bromide could be taken in quite a different way, fingers crossed behind your back.
“I agree to treat everyone in the Airbnb community—regardless of their race, religion, national origin, ethnicity, disability, sex, gender identity, sexual orientation, or age—with respect, and without judgment or bias.”
By this you might mean that you believe that heterosexual adulterers and homosexual practitioners of vice should both receive a fair trial in open court, and that their respective prosecutions should be conducted with an entire and wholehearted even-handedness. Oh, that’s not what they meant? However funny it might be as a thought experiment, it seems to me to be too clever by half.
Chesterton argues in Orthodoxy that the Christian martyr is not one who despises life. Rather, he despises death. He argues further that there is a way of being cautious and wary about what you are protecting that does not in fact protect it. Some things can only be protected through the right kind of carelessness—combing a fierce love of life with a willingness to die.
And that—I fear—is our problem. We have a country that contains millions of professing Christians. Examples of courage do show up here and there, and we are indignant on their behalf, but a lot of that indignation is expressed with our heads down. But what would happen if all of us refused at the same time, in the same way? Suppose millions decided to not care anymore at the same moment?
AMEN! Well written Pastor Wilson
It’s always more fun to boycott a product with others. Count me in.
This is not about boycotting
In a sense no. But it is letting morals impact economic decisions
And that brings us back round to the Leithart/Unity discussion. Who exactly are these “us” you speak of?
“Suppose millions decided to not care anymore at the same moment?” Suppose Christians decided to actually stand upon the Law of God, instead of some half-baked American synchretism. If Christians had not decided that Enlightenment ethics were just as cogent and valuable as theonomic ethics, then we would likely not be having this discussion. But, Doug, the real question here is whether those millions have anyone in leadership to emulate. Where are the rich pastors who refuse to do business with companies that promote homosexuality, and actually deal with the repercussions of it? The early church had apostles who openly… Read more »
Is it time to move out of Moscow?
http://www.ci.moscow.id.us/records/Ordinances/OR_2013-06.pdf
Sec. 19-1. Purpose and Declaration of Policy.
A. The City has determined that discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation and/or gender
identity/expression shall be prohibited, as set out in this Chapter, in order to help ensure that all
persons, regardless of sexual orientation and/or gender expression/identity, are afforded equal
opportunities for employment, in housing, commercial property, and in the use of public
accommodations.
“But what would happen if all of us refused at the same time, in the same way? Suppose millions decided to not care anymore at the same moment?” You mean like a populist uprising? Hmm. I wonder where we could find one of those? As much as I would love for all Christians to stand up with a unified voice and a fully agreed upon Christian ethics uncheat sheet, I think it will start with something much smaller. Like Merry Christmas. Either that, or we’ll meet over in Seattle in about seven years for the Tolerance by Torchlight Soiree. (“Sorry… Read more »
By this you might mean that you believe that heterosexual adulterers and homosexual practitioners of vice should both receive a fair trial in open court, and that their respective prosecutions should be conducted with an entire and wholehearted even-handedness. Oh, that’s not what they meant? I would think it goes much further than that. I respect all people as fellow human beings made in the image of God, and I withhold judgment as Jesus told us to withhold judgment. I don’t see anything in the statement explicitly or even clearly implicitly telling me to act in a manner different from… Read more »
From AirBnB’s website:
This commitment is an important step towards creating a global community where everyone can truly belong. Discrimination prevents hosts, guests, and their families from feeling included and welcomed, and we have no tolerance for it . . .”
It sounds like you recognize no dividing line between what is permissible or acceptable in the church body and the world.
Are you saying then that within the church we should tell everyone, regardless of whether or not they are repentant sinners, that they belong in church?
What’s the rub exactly. Who is forcing you to use Air BnB? If your idea of religious practice includes discriminatory behavior against gays (what we are really discussing no?) while you participate in group service like Air BnB then you will not be allowed to do so. They are up front about this. Seems pretty straight ahead. All of our freedom to practice religion (or not) is necessarily protected under a secular umbrella. We must to maintain our pluralism in a secular context or it is possibly you who may lose next time when a bigger religious bully (than you)… Read more »
Right! On the the previous thread I said exactly that. (see here: https://goo.gl/EHIeXu)
My question for Jonathan was whether he makes a distinction between the body of Christ and secular society as to acceptable behavior and unrepentant sinners.
As for this being about gays, it isn’t for me. I like associating with other Christians. If I had a business, I would like having the option of being for Christians only. Would that be acceptable to your world view?
No. As a public business you don’t get to discriminate against others based on race, color, religion, sexual orientation etc.
You are a thought experiment away from understanding why this is beneficial to you as a religious person.
Interesting. Do you really not see this is exactly what AirBNB is doing? They are discriminating against me as a Christian by insisting that if I want to be their customer I must agree with their doctrine and turn my back on Christianity. They are saying, “We only want to do business with other humanists.” That’s okay with you because you think you are in the majority. Time will tell on that one. The ‘religion’ part of “based on race, color, religion, sexual orientation etc.” is just humanist lip service and doesn’t actually entail accommodating different religions. In fact humanism… Read more »
I do not. Air BnB is saying that if you wish to make money as an extension of their business, you may not discriminate towards shared customers. You are providing the service under their network and you are not the ‘customer’ in the traditional sense. You seem to miss the point of religious accommodation in a pluralistic society. I’ll say it again that the secular context is the only way to safeguard everyone- including you. No one is telling you you may not practice christianity, but that you may not force it upon others or use it to deny others… Read more »
“You seem to miss the point of religious accommodation in a pluralistic society.
Indeed, I am missing it very much because it is not there!
Riddle me this, RandMan:
How can your society accommodate my religion which teaches that homosexuality is a sin?
Yes, I see your argument here and am calling it a non-starter. For the same reason we do not accommodate those who would enact the death penalty for apostasy that is stated in the quaran and hadith. Again, it is precisely you who should be glad for this protection if you thought about it a little it. Our society supports your right to be anti-gay and proclaim it loudly to whomever will listen. Just as I and others have the right to ridicule and denounce your views. You think that your right to practice religion extends to denying others their… Read more »
Now you have finished my point, so we can end. :) As I said before, all you can offer is lip service. Where I was wrong is that you offer nothing but lip service to yourself as well. At the point where we are not allowed to act on our beliefs, that is where we must decide which is worth more: our comfortable lives or our belief. This is how you have judged yourself: You may think the way Islamic men treat their women as chattel is wrong to the bottom of your soul, but all you can do is… Read more »
Your battle lines delineate nothing. You are free to not board gays. i am free to not to rent a room to anyone whose views I find abhorrent, just not under the umbrella of a public business. Talk about lip service! Go get arrested for your convictions or start a theocratic revolution then your xtian victory lap here might have some legs underneath it. Until then enjoy the protection of all of views that the US constitution affords. Better yet, go live in Iran if you want to see what happens when the floor tilts and all the furniture slides… Read more »
Let me see if I understood you: you think people should be free to believe and say whatever they think so long as they give up the right to buy and sell anything. Isn’t that basically giving up the right to literally survive?
Read with any kind of discernment and comment on what I actually said and I will bother.
Are you now trying to suggest there’s a difference between buying and selling versus “public business”? What other options for making a living and buying one’s necessities are there besides “public business” (or public sector things which I’m sure you’d apply even stricter standards to.)
i am free to not to rent a room to anyone whose views I find abhorrent, just not under the umbrella of a public business. How is that freedom? Get in line with us religiously, which means you can’t actually use your religion to guide your actions. That’s not religious freedom. I’m not sure how you can say it is. You can certainly say that my religion is wrong, but at least be honest and not say that somehow you preventing me from following my religion is giving me religious freedom. “Talk about lip service! Go get arrested for your… Read more »
I have ‘do unto others as you would have them do to you.’ What greater moral action is available to you as a christian that I do not have? None. Does your text require you not to rape? Not to sexually abuse children? Does it say not to take slaves? No, it tells you how to keep your slaves. In fact your god has a history of often requiring the raping, pillaging and killing, So clearly we have advanced beyond the moral understanding of those times. Tthe best secular moral ideals of our day say do unto others: do not… Read more »
“So clearly we have advanced beyond the moral understanding of those times….”
Clearly. That’s why we have now eradicated child sexual abuse, rape, and domestic violence. Also,today there are more slaves then at any other time in history, but we won’t speak of that one either.
It sounds so good until I look at the news and see how morally superior people’s heads are exploding because Trump was elected president. Suddenly, abusing, oppressing, insulting, tormenting and even kill-bragging are the higher moral ground. See how that works?
Apart from Christ there is no advanced moral understanding because there is neither morals or understanding.
I’ll stop there, Randman. I have no desire to stand as a witness against you. You may have the last word.
I’m quite confused at how you come to that conclusion. I’m not sure even exactly what you mean by “recognize no dividing line between what is permissible or acceptable in the church body and the world”, or how you got that idea. Can you explain further?
It was your comment on not judging that caught my attention. When we speak of not judging, our understanding has to stand alongside Paul telling the Corinthians to evict the gent who was being sexually immoral, until he repented, from the congregation.
In the world we associate with people who are happy in their sin, but in the body of Christ, we are told not to allow that for we are a holy people. That’s what I mean by a dividing line.
Reading your comments I wondered if you made that distinction or not.
Yes. 100% yes. What exactly is your question? An unrepentant absolutely belongs in church because where else would they hear about the love of Jesus that lead a us to reptenance? I legitimately am confused by your question. Where exactly does your church suggest unrepentant sinners go?
How would you respond to Paul in Corinthians then when he tells the church to kick out a man involved in fornication? Was Paul wrong? Should the unrepentant man have been allowed to stay?
Perhaps it is the stage of becoming a Christian on which we differ. I am referring to people who have claimed Christ as their lord, but refuse to repent of sin. You seem to be talking about seekers who have not yet become Christians.
Are you saying that the Gospels require you to let out your spare bedroom to a couple in an immoral relationship? Because that’s really what’s at issue here.
Do the Gospels forbid it? That seems to be the issue in this post.
BTW, why are “the Gospels” the limiting factor here. Aren’t we supposed to obey everything Jesus has commanded, including before and after the Gospels?
Seems reasonable to me. I only referenced “the Gospels” because that’s what everyone else was doing.
No, I don’t think the gospels speak either way on whether you’re required to let out your spare bedroom to a couple in an immoral relationship. Do they require you to lend money to a greedy person?
No, they don’t. The Gospels don’t require you to lend money to anybody, that I can make out. However, other parts of scripture do require you to exercise wisdom and not participate in sin, and not lending money to a person for whom it is obvious that they will sin with the opportunity seems to be the path of wisdom. Of course, unlike being in an immoral relationship, greed is not always evident in the context of the transaction in question. So I think that letting out a room that you know will be used in an immoral fashion is… Read more »
Does this mean, however, that in practice your policy will tend to exclude only obviously same sex couples in a relationship? I doubt that anyone’s Christian scruples would prevent them from renting to one person who strikes them as looking gay. So the issue is not whether you think gays should be able to rent a room but that you don’t want them having gay sex under your roof. Unless you ask to see a marriage certificate, there is no feasible way of eliminating adulterous or fornicating couples. And even if you say Christian household, what do you do about… Read more »
I think that’s another straw man. The issue isn’t what happens “under your roof”; the issue is what you implicitly condone.
The point is if you have a room that you rent on Air B&B and you don’t want to rent it to unmarried, homosexual, or trans couples, you have no right to refuse. It used to be that hosts announced on their sites if they were “gay friendly” or had “traditional values.” The problem is if we build a “Traditional Values B&B”, you know the diversity police will be knocking on the door and threatening lawsuits.
But that’s not the point. The point seems not to be whether you should be allowed the right to refuse, but whether you, as a Christian, should be required to refuse. And my experience is that many people aren’t making the distinction there between couples and singles either, but would prefer to maintain the right to refuse regardless.
Jonathan: “I withhold judgment as Jesus told us to withhold judgment.”
Jesus: “Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly.” John 7:24
J’, you really do need to check the manual more often! Your stated principle is a bit off the mark.
; – )
You are perfectly demonstrating the exact principle that I stated in another comment – a large number of Christians appear to simply eliminate these commands from their life and call it a day. You didn’t deal with the passages which you know I am speaking about, at all. You just proof-text a different passage and call it a day, as if that statement in John (and a couple others like it scattered here and there) means that the clear Gospel principle of “do not judge” is now rendered meaningless. Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not… Read more »
The rub would seem to come with the “go and sin no more” bit, e.g., as the Christian AirBNB host waves goodnight to the couple about to fornicate in the room upstairs. To do so without sharing the gospel vigorously and encouraging them to repent, and saying “as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord” is to hate said couple. And that would most assuredly incur the ire of the AirBNB thought police.
So………,
In your judgment….?????
J’, on this topic, judgment and condemnation tend to get conflated.
Sounds like we both agree that “correct” judgments, not based on appearance, can and should be made.
John 7:24 simply cuts to the chase. You might be confusing efficiency with “proof-texting”.
Oh! And nice job consulting the “manual”! ????????????????????????
I agree with this post on principle; and this and the previous post may be the most important posts you have written this year. The key battle for Satan is Christians denying their Lord (denying their conscience). I know Satan glories in wars and the murder of millions of children, but he desperately hates God’s children and their worship of Jesus. He desired to have Peter as Jesus told Peter. And Satan offered Jesus the entire world if only Jesus would worship him. I think the outworking is this not as clear cut. Worshiping Satan is out. Denying Jesus is… Read more »
Am I missing something? Just don’t use AirBnB.
First AirBnB, then Air guitar!
This is incrementalism dude! ; – )
It’s the mountain influence. I see an air BB gun. Daisy!
Is AirBnB right or wrong? Or are they a force of nature whose actions are not to be questioned, only reacted to?
Does it matter whether they are right or wrong?
My personal take is that I would happily sign this as a user, but as a provider I reserve the right to cancel or deny any reservation to stay in my house for any reason whatsoever or even no reason at all. So I just won’t use AirBnB (full disclosure: I wasn’t going to anyway).
Beyond this I’m not sure what more of a “right or wrong” analysis I could possibly do.
Incidentally, is this all about gay? You don’t care about all the other stuff listed, right?
Yeah, I think he does. At least the decade or so I’ve been reading him would make me think that.
Incorrect
“race, religion, national origin, ethnicity, disability, sex, gender identity, sexual orientation, or age”
So sexual orientation, but which other ones?
It is not about the specifics, it is about the signing. It is about having a piece of paper (or webpage) that pre-preemptively asks you what bad thoughts you have and tells you to sign on to not having bad-thought.
I agree that it comes across as annoyingly sanctimonious, but I get why AirBnB is doing this. The discrimination was becoming a scandal for them and companies hate scandal.
No, it goes beyond that. Go look at pictures of their headquarters and their pro-invader propaganda. AirBnB has been a vector for cultural AIDS for quite a while, it’s just part of their policy now.
The theme of martyrdom is a timely one (as usual) with Scorsese’s film based on Shusaku Endo’s novel Silence coming to theatres soon. I haven’t seen the film yet and am not holding my breath that it will adequately represent the novel with all due respect to a fine filmmaker, but the novel artfully raises the issue of martyrdom, truth-telling, and faithfulness to Jesus in an important and complex way such as Doug is engaging in this post, in a story based on historical events in Japan. It’s out there in the public square in a less ignorable way than… Read more »
Reading Silence right now, it is completely engrossing, but I can only take the pain of it in short bits. I look forward to Scorsese’s film. He has matured, is culturally Catholic and I think he will respect the subjects and what they suffered.
Generally concur with the basic sentiment – but I just don’t like the idea of us allowing the world to continually co-opt language, letting them get away with it, or setting the terms of debate by letting them get to define all the terms. So I for one would have no issue agreeing with the Airbnb statement as written (were I ever to use their service), so long as the words mean exactly what they mean according to the last time I used my dictionary. Otherwise I fear I’m validating their redefinition of words like “respect” in their newspeak. Now,… Read more »
This is a really great point. I don’t actually think that the left are being deceitful. Rather, they have redefined certain words within their community and use them in common language and don’t actually know that people outside of their group use the words differently. It’s become part of their cultural language in an unconscious way. Case in point. I was listening to an interview with a lesbian athlete who participated in some gay Olympic-style games. In telling her story, she said, “I didn’t know what gender I was until I was in college.” To us, it is quite easy… Read more »
Let us recall Alexander Solzhenitsyn’s classic essay “Live Not By Lies“.
I’m reminded of Solzhenitsyn’s “The Gulag Archipelago” where he talks about when following the revelation to the world of some of the atrocities performed against “Political” prisoners under the Stalin regime, they decided to simply determine that they would no longer have any “Political” prisoners. They accomplished this feat by simply trying and political dissidents as simple criminals. If a political dissenter was to be done away with, just arrest them and convict them as being a “hooligan” or some other crime. Voila, you have a criminal prisoner not a political prisoner. The same thing is being done with this… Read more »
You are assuming that they are trying to maintain freedom of religion. I believe that they are not at all. There is a large, vigilant faction that is determined to wipe out all opposition and it is being accomplished through the government school system and universities. One more generation of graduates (it matters not whether they are from Christian families) and the indoctrination will be complete. Christians need to fully understand what they are facing. It is a satanic onslaught with the ultimate goal of the destruction of Christianity. Praise be to God that Satan will fail because Christ has… Read more »
Could we point out that psychologists believe pedophilia is a sexual orientation, and that we don’t approve of it, and that we cannot approve of Airbnb’s requirement that members of its “community” be supportive of pedophilia?
I don’t think that will work because most psychologists think it is a deviant paraphilia, not an orientation. Secondly, it is seriously illegal which neither gay sex nor gay marriage is.
Airbnb’s statement never depended on what was legal or legally recognized, so it’s silly to suggest that that’s significant now.
But what would happen if all of us refused at the same time, in the same way? Suppose millions decided to not care anymore at the same moment? Let us remember that this has never happened, ever, without leadership and organisation. I would also note that in most of history the American church has followed, not led, these kinds of widespread changes in social outlook and mores. Companies like AirBnB (and Google, Facebook, and countless others) have aligned themselves with the moral compass of power. Those of us who don’t wish for their society to die, who wish to preserve… Read more »
Hello,ashv, I was thinking about you yesterday as I watched my Sikh friend from the Punjab take his citizenship oath. There were ten thousand new citizens created in one morning.
For now.
There are federal and state civil rights laws. Why not sue them? You never wins a war defensively
Is there a difference between agreeing to the statement as a provider of property and agreeing to it as a user of the accommodation service? Agreeing to it as a provider of property is saying that you agree to allow fornicating couples to use your accommodation, and won’t ask them to take their business elsewhere. Christians of conscience may well have a problem with this (a couple in the UK was sued for having this policy). Agreeing to it as a user of the accommodation services is saying that if you turn up at a rental and it turns out… Read more »
Both my Airbnb hosts have been husband-military couples, so I guess a duty to kill certain people is compatible with airbnb standards of respect, eh?