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Tozer

Book of the Month/May 2024
I received a copy of “Knowledge of the Holy” from your father back in the 1970’s. He would bring a box of them to meetings. I think he got them from the publisher for free to give away because they were defective. His requirement was that if we took one, we had to promise to read it. I’ve always been thankful your dad recommended it. It’s one of the books I’ve read more than once over the years and is how I discovered Tozer.

Allison

Allison, thanks.

Tim Bayly and Paedocommunion

Tim Bayly, Paedocommunion, Sacramentalism
Pastor Doug, I know you and Tim have long been friends and have recommended each other’s works. I’ve read, listened to, and been blessed by quite a lot from both of you (and your respective disciples). No doubt you’re aware Tim has really ramped up his warnings about what he calls Moscow’s sacramentalism and schismaticism. I couldn’t find much that you’ve written about sacramentalism since clear back in the big FV years, though maybe you use different words.
I’m not with you on paedocommunion, though I’ve yet to see such danger as Tim sees. I’ve always found you to be reasonable, humble, charitable, and the like, so I hope you will hear Tim’s warnings and deal with them, even if you believe you’ve done so before.
These issues affect me in ways I won’t go into here. The church can ill afford a sharp split between the ministries of Wilson and Bayly, or worse, to lose either church(es) to dangerous error. For example, does paedocommunion lead to forgetting the new birth and making space for a dead cultural Christianity generations down the line? For our sake and yours, would you please revisit Tim’s concerns?

J

J, the concerns you mention (and no doubt some others) are ongoing concerns for every wise pastor. Nobody should want perfunctory Christians at any level, for any reason. As for the issues that affect you personally, let me just recommend my book Against the Church, which is dedicated to warning against all such errors. In that book I ardently defend the absolute necessity of the new birth. As for revisiting Tim’s concerns directly, I owe the Warhorn community too much to get tangled up in a public controversy with them. Not going to do it.

See Rory Go

You should be very proud of your grandson. I lived next to Columbia for two years. My favorite neighborhood in NYC and it’s been slowly dissolved by a kind of progressivism that’s increasingly erratic and, at times, violent. What Rory and Charles did took no small amount of courage. Good to see real masculinity on display in the midst of insanity.
You should be proud of your son as well for raising a man like Rory. Cheers!

Nick

Nick, thank you. And yes, we are.
Thank you Rory for standing where the rest of us are unable to stand, though we would like to.

Melody

Melody, yes.
I’m a bit confused about some of the Rory situation. In the “count the cost” passage in Luke 14, Jesus says, ” Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand?” Proverbs 24:6 says “For by wise counsel thou shalt make thy war: and in multitude of counsellors there is safety.” And elsewhere we’re told to be “wise as serpents, and innocent of doves.” We also have cases of men taking unbelievable risks and seemingly being praised for it (Jonathan and his armor bearer, David vs Goliath, Elijah, etc.). Yet I hear little from our side talking about the wisdom of confronting a mob, as in “was this a good idea at all?” And, to go a bit further, if it was wise to confront a mob, why it was acceptable then to back down when the police weren’t coming or because it’s getting dangerous. In your video on YouTube entitled, “When Do You Stand Against the Mob?” it seemed like there was less about “when” and more about “of course you should, here’s how you be ready to do it.”
I think I understand being willing to face what God puts in front of you, but in this case it seems like Rory sought it out. He’s off campus, goes on campus, and confronts a mob. Are we actually telling our sons that every mob near them needs to be confronted? I kind of get that vibe from Nate. Where is wisdom in this? We don’t want wussy sons, but neither do I want my sons to plunge into any and every bad situation irrespective of the factors. And when is it taking a passing dog by the ears? When is it facing what God puts in front of you and when is it being an impetuous and/or pugnacious person readily seeking fights (even those that aren’t your own)? How do you distinguish between “well, that was stupid but thankfully it worked out” from “God gave you that battle and you handled it faithfully.”
Thanks.

Jake

Jake, all good questions. Here are just a few scattered answers. Being off campus is kind of a technicality—he was right there in his stomping ground, and Hamilton Hall was also. The goal was never to prevent the mob from taking over the building, which was not possible. It was to hold the building until the cops/security arrived. When it became obvious that they weren’t going to come, Rory stood down (Charles had already been removed). There is a cost/benefit analysis to be done. What are the stakes? If there had been a Jew the mob was hunting hiding behind the doors, Rory would have remained. As it was, the mob gained the building for a few hours, but lost a major optics moment, where it became glaringly obvious who the thugs were. All in all, nothing but a win. Your central question is “how do you decide?” The answer is “when in doubt, stand.” Some of the conservative Monday morning quarterbacks are playing hang back ball.

Ride, Sally

I am writing you not concerning a blog post but your Book “Ride, Sally, Ride” which I recently finished and thoroughly enjoyed. It was an amazingly relevant book to our time, but most of all, the story was just great. Thank you.

Jordan

Jordan, thank you. Glad you enjoyed it.

The Jews Are Bad Wormhole

I’m not really sure what post this would address, however it hits on a theme that you have been standing against and have taken a lot of heat for. My friend has gone fully down the “Jews are bad” rabbit hole. Before falling headlong, he would claim that he was a believer of Jesus Christ. Little by little, like tiny steps, we have now reached the point where he denies the perspicuity of Scripture and uses verses like Matt 19:28 to know “which tribe are you in lol”. His distrust and disdain for the Jews have led him closer and closer to apostasy. This breaks my heart. I am writing to you to let you know that I have witnessed firsthand what this antisemitism leads to. He is the one who introduced me to Reformed Theology and men like James White, John MacArthur and RC Sproul. I was wondering what your advice would be to break these walls. I am praying, because as John Bunyan says, ““You can do more than pray after you have prayed, but you cannot do more than pray until you have prayed.” I need guidance in regard as to what to do now I have prayed and continue in it.

Zach

Zach, it seems to me that you need to speak to the spiritual reality of his apostasy, straight up the middle. Tell him that he is not rejecting the Jews, but is rather following them into the darkness of unbelief.

A Church in Switzerland

I am replying to Joe, who sent a letter to the editor asking about an “authentic staunchly reformed church body in Switzerland.“ My husband and I live near Zurich and are members of a wonderful reformed church (and you do have to be careful—many churches here called Reformed are anything but) that was planted a few years ago by All Saints Presbyterian Church in Newcastle (allsaintspres.org.uk), a member of the Evangelical Presbyterian Church in England and Wales (epcew.org.uk).
Our pastor is a good expositor, not afraid to preach about difficult topics, and intent on applying God‘s Word to our daily lives. We are a small congregation, but we have many English speakers, and our worship service is almost always translated simultaneously from German to English and can be heard with headphones during the service, in case the language might be a concern. Our church‘s website is zuerichpres.ch (in German only; but our leaders speak English and would be glad to respond to inquiries) and we would love to welcome Joe if he decides to visit! Sincerely,

Michelle

Michelle, thank you very much. Joe, there you go.

Myth and History

How would you recommend one approaches reading Geoffrey of Monmouth’s “The History of the Kings of Britain?” I did a search on your blog and you’ve alluded that you are not in agreement with the modernist take that many of these stories are legends. I’d appreciate your thoughts.

Mallory

Mallory, in approaching things like this, my operating assumption is that there is probably something to it. Ancient legends are obviously not Scripture, and so I don’t assume the historicity of everything, and many times the outlandish details are . . . outlandish. But I always keep Ambrose Bierce’s definition of mythology in the front of my mind. “MYTHOLOGY, n. The body of a primitive people’s beliefs concerning its origin, early history, heroes, deities and so forth, as distinguished from the true accounts which it invents later.”

Wedding Customs

You have written extensively on marriage and male/female roles in relationships, so I would value your thoughts on these questions.
What do you think of the tradition in western societies for the bride’s father/family to organise and pay for the wedding?
It seems to me that this is almost like the bride purchasing a groom, rather than the other way around. Doesn’t the scripture say that “a certain man made a marriage for his SON”?
So many problems seem to arise during wedding preparations because the bride and her mother sit conspiring in a corner, and then two days before the wedding spring some purple bow tie on the groom, and kindly let him know that they’ve invited his crazy Uncle Bob after all, because they think it would be a “nice gesture.”
It seems like this bossing the groom around is setting a terrible precedent for marriage.
Also, is it chauvinistic of me to think that weddings these days are far too feminine? They seem to look more and more like a 12-year-old girl’s dream bedroom every time I attend one. Lots of pink. Several butterflies. Everyone cries. The bride’s father apologetically, smilingly gives away his daughter with a voice that sounds prepubescent. Too much fairy-tale Cinderella stuff and not enough… I dunno, motorbikes, or something.
Sincerely,

Dow

Dow, I am with you in wanting to rein in the Bridezilla stuff. But I perform a lot of weddings, and have never encountered a Bridezilla. I think that issue must be disconnected from the issue of who pays for the wedding. As for the fluffy element, I think that must be coming from somewhere else also. As for the custom of hosting, I recognize that it differs somewhat from ancient customs, but not entirely. The groom’s family pays for the rehearsal dinner.

A Challenging Situation

How should an older teenage son live with/address/submit to a father with anger issues? I have been raised to obey the standard but have trouble loving it because of his frequent outbursts of rage when I fail. What can I do as a son to be better? God bless you and all you do.

Peter

Peter, hang on, and be faithful. And when you are tempted to turn away from “loving the standard,” remind yourself that this would not be walking away from what your father has discredited. It would be a form of following your father’s bad example. He already doesn’t love the standard.

A Possible Response Video?

Recommendation for a Doug response video: `5 Bible Passages That Caused Me To Lose My Faith` (650k views)
I only watched a bit of it but I saw that she doesn’t like the Calvinism passages. Would love to see you respond to this.

Tony

Tony, thanks for the suggestion.

A Book Suggestion & More

Re Book of the Month—I wouldn’t press it as a book of the month, but I’m enjoying “Bibi” by Netanyahu more than I expected; not just the stories, but insights into how things work. (Bibi had it harder than Reagan and Thatcher; the US started right, Britain got into socialism, but Israel’s founding fathers were socialists). It also mentions (and you may have awhile back?) a “hilarious” book called Social Science as Sorcery, which sounds interesting.
Re Q’s Letter, does “don’t receive an accusation against an elder except by two or three witnesses” mean “totally blow off every such accusation?” If he said/she said, and one of them is flat out lying and only they two know which, each is accusing the other—one of misconduct, the other of equally serious false witness. Not enough evidence to convict and punish either, but maybe enough to call for more careful conduct and for space between them?
So Q claims to know of wicked conduct by leaders in a CREC church, and that “many know them to be wicked men…know them to be dangerous.” Prove it–to the wicked men? To presbytery? (CREC website could do better at specifying presbyteries, I think). To leaders at the nearest other CREC church? Form a group of the concerned, write specific charges and evidence (compare the US declaration of independence), and then proceed to one of the above, trying to be solving the problem (and what would be a solution?) and not just gossiping? Are there enough concerned people to form a separate church?

Andrew

Andrew, thanks for the book recommendation. And concerning Q’s allegation, you are right. It must be substantiated in accordance with due process, or kept to yourself.

A Challenging Spot

I am serving as a trustee on the board of a secular college. As various issues will certainly arise before our board regarding hate speech, pronoun usage, and other alphabet people issues, how would you suggest handling these issues considering your suggestions in Mere Christendom or in the position of living in the Negative World? I’m not afraid to stand for biblical truth but also I think about your comment on MTP where you respond that same sex couples could live peacefully in the community but you would not go as far as ordaining their marriage. Thanks,

Art

Art, when pernicious policies come before the board, you vote no. When righteous students or faculty are being harassed, and their case comes up before the board, you fight for them. When this becomes impossible, or just extremely tedious for you, ask yourself if your position on the board is worth it. If not, then it would be time to step down.

A Discipline Question

My wife and I have learned a great deal from your various series on parenting. We’re having a problem with our eldest daughter (just shy of 5yo) when it comes to discipline and I’m hoping you might be able to provide some direction/insight. 
We’re not super experienced with children, so not sure if this is normal, but when it comes time for the spanking, she thrashes, wails, screams, and gets so out of control it takes two of us to hold her down (so as not to harm her with excessive force) just to administer the spanking. It’s typically three firm swats with a wooden spoon. We try to talk with her beforehand and pray with her after and I think the force of the spanking is reasonable, but her berzerker behavior has led me to hand out more warnings than I think is right. I believe this is a failure on my part and I want to correct it, but I need some practical help/advice because I don’t know what to do.
Many thanks for your time and God bless

Joe

Joe, you are right to want to handle it judiciously and calmly. But fighting discipline is a disciplinary offense. When it comes time for the swats explain to her calmly that she is going to receive three swats. If she fights it, there will be five.

The Torah

Thank you for your encouragement to read the Bible, respect and submit to my husband, and also teach my children in Lord. This message is not related to a particular blog post, I just have a very important question I would love you to help hash out and explain sometime, the sooner the better. If you happen to be able to plod along on a document such as this, which relates to the significance of the Torah and how it applies to believers of Jesus and his atoning work in the cross I would really appreciate your opinion.
Gratefully,

Sarah

Sarah, the best I can do is recommend my commentary on Romans, To the Church in Rome, which goes into my views on the Torah.

Tucker and Sabbath

The video/post I’m reaching out about is the Tucker Carlson interview. I’ve followed your blog for a while, but something that piqued my interest was your comment about Sabbath dinner you do with your family & community. I would like to start doing something like that here in Newnan, Ga. All I am reaching out for is to see if you could share how you format the evenings, resources you use, etc. Thanks for your time and what you do!

Caleb

Caleb, what we do is this. The whole clan (and guests) gather on Saturday evening at 6. The quality of the food is a “step up.” Think old time Sunday dinners. At the beginning of the meal, we have a brief liturgy—as follows:

Welcome to our table: guests are welcomed.
 
A Sabbath Toast (please raise your glass)
This is the day the Lord has made . . .
            We will rejoice and be glad in it!
 
Father God, heavenly Father, we are very grateful to You for all things You give us to enjoy. We have enjoyed them this past week, and look forward to what You are going to give us in the course of this coming week. We pray that we place all that You have given us on the foundation of our worship of You tomorrow. Bless that worship, we pray, and strengthen us for that worship now. We ask for this in the name of Jesus, and amen.
 
What Is the Blessing for my Wife?
[Kids] May her house always have seven pillars and may she always mix her wine with wisdom (Prov. 9:1).
 
What is the Blessing for the Children?
[Kids] Happy are the people whose God is the Lord. May our sons flourish like saplings, grown up in their youth, and may our daughters be as columns, sculpted in the palace style (Ps. 144:12).
 
Catechism questions for all the kids:
Do you love God? Yes!
Are you baptized? Yes!
Is Jesus in your heart? Yes
Will you take the Lord’s Supper tomorrow? Yes!
 
Catechism questions:
G, who made you? God
M, who made the sun, moon and stars? God
M, who is the Son of God? Jesus
S, who reveals God to us? Jesus
L, what day is it? The Lord’s Day                          
B, why is it the Lord’s Day? Because Jesus rose
L, what kind of day is it? A sweet day
M, what did Jesus kill on this day? The dragon
Everyone, what else did Jesus kill? The dragon in our hearts
[These questions adjust according to the number of younger kids]
 
Everyone, what’s the point of the whole Bible? Kill the dragon, get the girl!
 
Behold bless the Lord . . .

Really Strange

You’ve been kind to advise me on tangles in the past and I am at it again! It recently came out in a church meeting that the elders of our church would like the congregants of our church to “give a heads up” to them before showing hospitality on a larger scale to members of the church or within our community. It was explained that we are representatives of our church and need to be under the discretion of the elders in this area—to be sure we are representing it well. (I think this was the jist of it.) An example of what would need approval would be a monthly ladies/children gathering just to get to know one another in a more personal way, hosting a BBQ for the church some Saturday, hosting a psalm sing or, say, as your daughter has mentioned in her podcast—meeting at a park and just offering hotdogs to whoever may show up. To be clear—no Bible studies or theological teachings are happening at said gatherings. This seems out of the purview of the elders, a bit tyrannical and in fact, it actually discourages me from wanting to extend hospitality (something which I am always actively trying to do.) Is this overreach on the part of our elders? Or am I stubbornly bucking against something valuable that I just don’t understand? If this is a requirement but not a godly one, is this something that we as congregants ought to submit to (knowing that submitting when you disagree is where the rubber meets the road) or does this fall in the realm of “you ought not to submit to ungodly principles.” Please advise! (And if you have a published series on the responsibilities of elders you can point me to, I’d appreciate it.)

BB

BB, I assume from what you have written that they are not responding to any particular hospitality disasters. That being the case, it seems to me that they are way out of their lane. But I would not disregard what they say until after you have talked with the pastor, and possibly with the entire session. If you meet with them, and do not come to an agreement over this, I would simply proceed. But be aware that this might end up with you needing to find a different church.

Removing Children From Homes

I have been married for coming on 8 years. My wife and I have a 5 year old son born to us. In addition to that, we have two foster children in our care. One who is coming up on 2 years old and the other an infant. I have been listening to your book “Heaven Misplaced” on Audible. During my seminary training I came to the conclusion that covenant theology made the most sense. I have greatly appreciated what you present in this book. I tend to agree that the church, myself included certainly at times, has minimized the power of the resurrection. Christ died and is raised. The Gospel is the power of God to reach a lost world. Abraham believed the gospel. All to which was challenging and to which I agree. It was thought provoking enough to prayerfully consider where I have not believed the gospel such that it is shown in how I live. The one question I have where I was more tentative and was hoping you could address is the aspect of social and civic justice. As I mentioned my wife and I do foster care. The children we are caring for were directly exposed to methamphetamines one was life threatening. I ask curiously, not critically. In the book the language was akin to justice being “satanic.” Would allowing children to remain in such situations be the expectation? This meaning they were removed by child welfare and law enforcement because their situation was deemed unsafe and hazardous to their safety and well being. But societally, because of the resurrection, is this something we leave unaddressed and stay out of? I was unclear what you were suggesting concerning social and civic justice. Is there a place to say that subjecting children to substances is wrong and something that we should not allow in our society? Again, there is so much in your book to which I agree. I was just unclear on your point in that particular section and was hoping to get clarification on your thoughts concerning social and civil justice and if and how that works in light of the resurrection.
Thank you for your time and your ministry.
In Christ,

Ty

Ty, there are times when the state ought to remove children from homes for their safety. There are situations that really are dangerous, and I am not objecting to that. But when the state is given that kind of authority, they will be tempted to abuse it, as when they remove a child because he has loving parents who discipline him. That is what I would call satanic.

Many Thanks

I wanted to reach out to you and thank you for your consistency and fidelity to Scripture. I had known of your name for many years, but recently came across a video of you discussing eschatology while studying for my upcoming class on the book of Revelation. After that, I continued to watch some of your videos on eschatology and then heard of your recent interview with Tucker Carlson. After listening to all of these, I appreciated how your view of Scripture was not only theologically on point and logically well thought out, but also how positive you are about the future. You gave voice to the belief I have held to for years about how being a Christian is not, as you said, “us on the roof of Saigon waiting for evac,” but rather a call to be involved in our communities and to not only preach a gospel that saves us in eternity but live a gospel that can show the world Who Christ is and make the world better. I hope one day that I will get to meet you in person, but until then—thank you for what you do and I will pray for you and your church in the days ahead! In the Service of Christ,

Braxton

Braxton, thank you for paying attention.

Mere Christendom

Let me begin by saying that I loved Mere Christendom. The arguments in it are concise and clear. How should churches be discipling their people in these matters? It seems if we’re going to have a Christian nation, we’ll need to convince all of our people that that’s a good goal. Should churches have Sunday School classes on it? Should I teach my youth? Should it become our nursery curriculum? Should we teach on it in Children’s Church?
(Of course that’s a joke I’m quite sure you have a deep and abiding hatred for Children’s Church)

Chaz

Chaz, I don’t think we should teach on this subject all the time, 24-7. But I do think it needs to be woven into everything. It is the teleological goal of the church, nothing less than the Great Commission.
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Armin
Armin
7 months ago

Zach, I don’t now if you’ll see this, but Doug’s advice is problematic. I am an “antisemite” and I will tell you that the best approach is simply to ask honest questions, calmly, without boomer hysterics and accusations. What your actual concern should be is hatred, not apostasy (although those two can certainly go hand in hand). Simply find out if your friend hates Jews. And if so, call him to repent, not of “antisemitism” (in fact, just don’t even use that term at all) but of hatred. Just remind him he has to love his enemies, while acknowledging that… Read more »

Last edited 7 months ago by Armin
James
James
7 months ago
Reply to  Armin

I generally appreciated his latest post. But he might want to consider whether he really wants to refer to Jesus as a Jew, in the context of modern Judaism. It is unclear how closely related the Jews are to the Israelites, and it is at least plausible that most of the descendants of the actual Israelites are Christians. Jesus never practiced Talmudic Judaism,(he opposed Pharisaism, its forerunner, more than anything else) and the Talmud has many blasphemies against him. So if we want to call Jesus a Jew, it must be in a very narrow or anachronistic way.

John Middleton
John Middleton
7 months ago
Reply to  James

What do you think the Jews are ethnically? The ones I’ve known are white, near as I can tell. That should make them “us” to white people who consider being white a basis for kinship.

Armin
Armin
7 months ago
Reply to  John Middleton

Many of them don’t see it that way, and the ones that do generally put their Jewishness above their “whiteness” in terms to whose interests they prioritize. Either way the conflict is still there. If you had someone in your family who was a Jew, and they were constantly attacking the other members of your family and your family as a whole (eg. collective slander) in service to their Jewish identity, you wouldn’t just sit back and do nothing because they’re “part of your family.” 

Last edited 7 months ago by Armin
John Middleton
John Middleton
7 months ago
Reply to  Armin

So white all by itself doesn’t mean that much, is one of the takeaways here.

James
James
7 months ago
Reply to  John Middleton

It is not so much that they are a race as a religion. Bobby Fischer was half Jewish, he likely converted to Catholicism in his last years, and he was no more a religious Jew than I am, and much more hostile towards their religion. Very few anti-Judaic people, even among the hardcore white nationalists, would hate him for being half Jewish. Technically, Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews could be considered white, as they may be mostly ethnic European, and are certainly Caucasoid, but, because they are not Christians, they are at odds with other Europeans (and Christian as well as… Read more »

John Middleton
John Middleton
7 months ago
Reply to  James

So faith and/or culture is what matters. Of course ultimately only faith in Christ matters.

Armin
Armin
7 months ago
Reply to  John Middleton

I don’t know how you’re getting that from what I’ve said. The fact that a question may exist about how “white” Ashkenazi Jews in the West are does not negate “white” as a valid and meaningful classification of a certain subset of humanity.

Last edited 7 months ago by Armin
John Middleton
John Middleton
7 months ago
Reply to  Armin

In which subset, or you might say, family Askenazi Jews are included, being white. Except, being white is not enough. You don’t think so, and if you are correct about Jews, they don’t think so either. Merely the fact of being white turns out to be not so meaningful after all.

Armin
Armin
7 months ago
Reply to  John Middleton

If whites are the “family” in this analogy, then the Jews are simply a bad apple in that family, assuming they’re white (which I’m only granting for the sake of argument; I don’t actually believe that myself).

If they see themselves as being Jews before being white, then that’s how I’ll see them. Having someone in your family who puts some other identity before that of their family doesn’t somehow make the family identity non-existent or meaningless.

John Middleton
John Middleton
7 months ago
Reply to  Armin

If you see them and they look white that’s how you’ll see them, until you find out they are Jews.

Micael Gustavsson
Micael Gustavsson
7 months ago
Reply to  Armin

So, in order to be white, you have to consider “whiteness” to be the most important part of your identity? An Irishman who thinks his irishness is more important than his whiteness is not really white? And I guess the same goes for a Christian who thinks his “christianess” is more important than his “”whiteness”.

John Middleton
John Middleton
7 months ago
Reply to  Armin

If I had someone in my family who was a White Nationalist, and they were constantly attacking other members of my family and my family as a whole in service to their White Nationalist identity, I wouldn’t just sit back and do nothing because they’re “part of my family”.

Chris
Chris
7 months ago

Why isn’t Rory at NSA? And I think it is much more brave being on the side against the police…

Luigi
Luigi
7 months ago
Reply to  Chris

The police didn’t show up. The pro-terrorism side aren’t the plucky underdogs.

Chris
Chris
7 months ago
Reply to  Luigi

I know. The pig/pro-Israel counter protester behavior is sickening.

Jane
Jane
7 months ago
Reply to  Chris

What if I told you it wasn’t pro-Israel, it was anti-violent mob?

Last edited 7 months ago by Jane
James
James
7 months ago
Reply to  Jane

I am not pro-Israel, certainly not on the level that I think they have the sole right to the land of Palestine, and I think Rory and his pal were the good guys. They were being brave, to stand up against the disruptive protesters, though I think the college kind of deserved it, and the Syrian Christian was wise to tell Rory, basically, that he was worth more than that building.

Allie
Allie
7 months ago
john k
john k
7 months ago

J,
There is enough already to be found on the internet for and against paedocommunion. Search for “Tim Gallant.” He addresses many of the issues brought up on the Warhorn. One helpful article discusses 1 Corinthians 11 in the context of the whole letter:

https://paedocommunion.com/articles/gallant_examination_and_remembrance.php

Barnabas
Barnabas
7 months ago

I give Doug Wilson credit for not taking the position that Israel is bombing hospitals etc because Hamas is hiding in them but rather that punishing civilians until the leadership capitulates is a valid strategy. He offers 2 Samual as a model for the morality of such tactics. Can we also gather from 2 Samual that polygamy is acceptable? David also captures a city and chooses 2/3 of the captives at random and slaughters them. So when Russian troops captured Mariupol it would have been acceptable for them to take all the virgins as brides or sell everyone into slavery?… Read more »

Barnabas
Barnabas
7 months ago

Don’t talk about “vile and hateful antisemitism” and then in the next breath defend freedom of speech. The very invocation of the term is an assault on freedom of speech. It’s the designation of a class of people above criticism.

Barnabas
Barnabas
7 months ago
Reply to  Barnabas

“But let’s not forget the Jew. Anybody that gives even a just criticism of the Jew is instantly labeled anti-Semite. The Jew cries louder than anybody else if anybody criticizes him. You can tell the truth about any minority in America, but make a true observation about the Jew, and if it doesn’t pat him on the back, then he uses his grip on the media to one you anti-Semite.”
Malcolm X

Barnabas
Barnabas
7 months ago
Reply to  Barnabas

Label you

Jennifer Mugrage
7 months ago

Dow,
Whether the bride’s family pays a dowry, or the groom pays a bride-price, varies from culture to culture. It depends upon whether historically, a woman was considered an economic asset or liability. Also has to do with a bunch of other marriage customs like how inheritance works and which side of the family the couple live with. IMO, any of these systems can be Christianized and become a righteous social system.

Dow
Dow
7 months ago

Thanks Jennifer, that does clear up some of the history of it. I agree that these traditions are salvageable, but I think that in “Christianizing” them, we would naturally make them more biblical. And the Bible is quite clear that the groom provides, the groom pays, and the groom sacrifices. And if the man is unable to provide for his wife and family, that is considered very substandard, and in some cases very sinful.

Upon this basis, would it not be reasonable to say that, if possible, the man and his family should pay for and organise the wedding?

Jane
Jane
7 months ago

In our culture, paying for the wedding is not viewed as a matter of valuing the bride or groom in the sense of exchange, but merely paying for the celebration to be enjoyed by family and friends. Many people have weddings that cost very little but that is no reflection on how the marriage itself is valued.

Rob
Rob
7 months ago
Reply to  Jane

Culture does get out of hand at times and gentle push back may be in order. I wonder how many relationships (in-laws) have gone down the tubes because of un-met or unrealistic “expectations.” I would set the tone early and up front with my daughter on “reasonable” expectations and expect her to involve the groom and his family in some of the decision making and that everyone is on board. I do think the daughter does carry a bit more of the weighty decision making but she should be considerate of the whole and then everyone just needs to swallow… Read more »

Last edited 7 months ago by Rob
Jane
Jane
7 months ago
Reply to  Rob

I agree with that, and I wasn’t saying the culture is neutral. Just that paying for the wedding isn’t really about the same thing as a bride price or dowry is. It’s just funding the celebration. How ostentatious the celebration is and how the parties involved conduct themselves are certainly important matters for consideration.

I would say setting the tone for your daughter’s expectations is more about how you raise your daughter in all other respects, than anything. Greedy, bossy bridezillas are mostly not acting out of character at their weddings.

Last edited 7 months ago by Jane
Rob
Rob
7 months ago
Reply to  Jane

Understood…..and my reply was really just thinking out loud and to respond more to DOW and their concerns with wedding customs of our day and culture.

Dow
Dow
7 months ago
Reply to  Rob

Thanks for your comment, Rob. Why do you think the daughter should have more weight in the decision-making?

Dow
Dow
7 months ago
Reply to  Jane

Very true, Jane, but here is the problem I see, which may not have been clear before: 1. The family who pays has the right to call the shots and organize the wedding. After all, they’re paying for it, so they should have the right to organize it. 2. When the bride’s family organizes the wedding, it is generally the bride and her mother who do most of it. 3. This often results in a situation where the bride and her mother are telling the groom and his family what to do. It also often results in an overly-feminine wedding.… Read more »

Jane
Jane
7 months ago
Reply to  Dow

If the groom’s family hosts the wedding, the groom’s mother and the bride are still going to be planning most of it. That’s just the nature of things; party planning is an inherently domestic activity that lends itself to the supervision of women. It’s a form of hospitality. Now if you mean the ceremony itself, that would be dealt with by people acknowledging that it is a solemn act before God and following the established forms of the church. That’s going to keep it from being “feminine.” But if people don’t recognize that basic approach, all the tweaking around of… Read more »

Ken B
Ken B
7 months ago

Tony – I watched out of curiosity some Kristi Burke and I would say she is a living epistle of the truth of Romans 1. Claiming to be wise they became fools. Re-hashed boilerplate objections that have been answered many a time. Her demolition of the 10 commandments was pathetic. I suspect she is enjoying some celebrity status amongst the deconstruction community, and does not come across (to me) as sincere. I would be surprised if she ever had a genuine faith to fall away from. Her unbelief is clearly an act of her will. There are issues in the… Read more »

Zeph
7 months ago

Last week, someone asked about books on raising daughters. Doug’s father wrote on the subject. Contact Community Christian Ministries for that literature if interested.