Letters That Were Plainly Sent by Somebody

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Creation Qs

What is your view concerning the day of creation on which angels were made? Do you think that when Adam and Eve fell into sin, that all of the back story with Lucifer falling with a third of the angels occurred less than a week before?
Also I have a friend who really likes reading John Walton and thinks that the “substrate” of the earth was evil and chaos (darkness was over the face of the deep) and that God placed man on the Earth as a priest with a function of bringing order to it (cultural mandate). This doesn’t seem right to me as God seems to say his creation was good (with the exception of man being alone). What do you think?

Joshua

Joshua, I believe the angels were created the same day the host of heaven were. That said, we don’t know how long our first parents continued on in an unfallen state. And I do believe that the substrate was formless and void, and chaotic. But that doesn’t make it evil.

Rich Culture

I have recently enjoyed your book, “Angels in the Architecture.” I love the idea of recovering the medieval idea of beauty, of slow changes, and investing in creating a rich culture for future Christians. I want to pour out my life into future generations and leave them with an inheritance that they can treasure.
Speaking of the future, I was recently troubled by 1 Corinthians 3:13. I cannot figure out how any of my works would be anything but stubble. I am woefully inadequate. Even when I obey God, there is always some nasty ulterior goblin lurking in the background. My question is, how does one ensure that one is using gold, silver, and precious stones?

Ariel

Ariel, in this fallen world even our best works need to be justified. The best rule of thumb is that the wood, hay, and stubble people are very proud of what they do, and the precious stones people are very aware of how inadequate all of it is.

Tough Question

I’m a young Brazilian Christian and I’ve been following you for a short time. Knowing that you are an authority on the subject, “family scares,” please, what advice would you give to a young person who is suffering the separation of their parents? Thanks in advance!

Ramon

Ramon, the best thing to do is to not derive your plan of action from your parents’ actions, but rather from the law of God. He says to honor them, and so you should make a diligent point to honor both of them, doing so in such a way that they both see you honoring both. Done carelessly, showing honor could be mistaken as taking sides.

Kill Shot for the Church

On Tin Foil Hats: With all the assaults on the church, do you think Satan has any kind of strategy that would be a devastating head shot?

Steve

Steve, I believe that he wants that very much, but it has been withheld from him.

Inner Ring

“Of all the passions, the passion for the Inner Ring is most skillful in making a man who is not yet a very bad man do very bad things.”
C.S. Lewis delivered that famous line in 1944 at Magdalen College. I do believe that we’re seeing this play out with those in Big Eva. The point being that there are some good men who’ve done bad things because of this desire for the inner ring. Unfortunately, these Big Eva types have harmed others and themselves in the process. Now if my memory serves me right, Carlo Cipolla wrote in The Basic Laws of Human Stupidity that a stupid person is someone whose actions harm others at no benefit to himself and possibly to his detriment.
Therefore, when I budget for stupidity, I find myself also taking into consideration C.S. Lewis’ warning about the corrupting desire to be in the inner ring. This part sobers me because some of these Big Eva types may be either good men doing bad things, or good men who are now bad ones. Of course, it’s also possible that these Big Eva types have gone out from us because they were not of us, in order to show that they weren’t of us. I know that I can’t discern the heart motives of these Big Eva folks, so Lewis’ point about the desire to be in the inner ring gives me a good check in my spirit. Therefore, I can pray for them to turn back to our Savior before it’s too late, and for God to thwart their stupid /foolish actions in the interim.

Matthew

Matthew, I think this is a very good application of Lewis’s point.

The Chris Gordon Interview

I watched the Chris Gordon interview and read your subsequent admonition to your peeps . . . As someone who has never in my life typed a letter in a YouTube comment box, I wanted to add my drop in the bucket of gratitude for your work and your not being deterred from the consistent waves of people “concerned about you.”
I am one of the throngs whose family has greatly and joyfully benefited from your writings and am not running around setting my hair on fire.

Chris

Chris, thanks very much.
Let’s imagine you went to a three-hour long talk with a chap named Obadiah. Obadiah thinks he’s cool and well-read, but he’s actually just obnoxious and annoying. He exudes a lot of feminine energy, and the TLDR of his entire point in the three-hour talk can be summed as, “You didn’t write books the way I would have.” Now please bear with me here in this purely fictional story; I’m getting to my question. Throughout the interview, Obadiah acted like he was the big dawg, and even though he said he wasn’t trying to “do a Doug-takedown,” that’s all he was after. Again, please just imagine such a scenario.
Now I understand why we must be gracious with everyone, including people like Obadiah. We own nothing good that wasn’t given to us by our gracious Father, so we have nothing to boast about. I also understand why we must be joyful, cheerful, and patient. God is sovereign over every atom, and he’s preparing a table for us in the midst of our enemies. So, be humble, be joyful. So far so good.
But here’s my question. Shouldn’t Obadiah be rebuked for his attitude? At least privately? Sure, he was brave in having someone as controversial and reviled as you on his show. But for someone in your position, and I must underscore the phrase “someone in your position,” because I would be disqualified from rebuking him, for I would get annoyed if I were in your place, which means I’m not spiritual enough, but for someone in your position (spiritual, older, wiser, way more proof-of-work to show), shouldn’t you rebuke him? Are you saying there are no grounds for rebuke, in this fictional story? Or are you saying something along the lines of, the interview is not the right time or place for rebuke? Or are you saying that he’s not under your care, so you don’t have the responsibility to rebuke him? If I had to guess, I would say that the last point is the answer: you would rebuke Obadiah privately if he was part of your church; but otherwise be gracious and laugh off insults.Of course, there’s no big sin Obadiah is involved in; this is just attitude correction.
I’m also trying to imagine, if I were Obadiah, from my vantage point now, I would really want someone to stop me in my tracks and wake me up with stern words and more if necessary. For sure, I would love and respect pastor Wilson if he didn’t rebuke me at all. But I imagine (and I could be wrong) that if I were to wake up from my error, then I would like Pastor Wilson more and be more grateful to him if he did in fact rebuke me. So here’s my second question, am I wrong here? Would it not be spiritually better for me if someone called me out on my attitude?

John

John, the mere fact that Chris was willing to sit down with me, given where he labors and where his support network is, was an immense act of courage, and he did it out of a commitment to principle. We had a good time of fellowship with him off camera, no crackle, and I had visited with him on the phone before we scheduled the interview. What a lot of people are reacting to is the fact that he was behind the rhetorical eight ball simply because. He needed to challenge us at every point even to be able to have the conversation at all. To get to your question, I could see myself giving an admonition for something like this if I knew a lot more than I do, or had a much more developed relationship with him than I have. Until such time, I just want to treat him with gratitude and respect.
Escondido:
I’m impelled to state that your manner in debate and general interaction is shown once more to be impeccable.
This was 2+ hours of a man posing as some kind of Christian leader, making a perpetual victim empathy plea, and displaying lack of understanding re: Reformed history, present cultural circumstances . . . really any topic with which he attempted to answer or interact. Summarized well in the running YouTube commentary segments, where a viewer stated “[he] needs to stop blaming others for [his] own lack of comprehension.” And disingenuousness, I add without apology.
Of all the pure dribble, there was a single minor yet important point to which concession should be made—some of your boys need to get to the gym.
God’s hand on your work.

JB

JB, thanks. For the first part, see above. As to the point about hitting the gym, I take your point. I have noticed a number of ministers and fellow Christians who have started to envy my admirable girth. It has become something of a stumbling block, and something really should be done about it.

Sit Tight

I’m not writing in response to a particular post, I just wanted to see your view on a situation I have, and could use some advice. I’m a 16-year-old, raised in a truly Christian family in Bible-belt northern Alabama. My parents sacrificed to put my siblings and me through a good Christian school, and I was converted/became serious about my faith around 3 years ago, and have gradually become pretty thoroughly Reformed via you and other influences.
All that being said, unfortunately we (my parents and I, my two siblings are on their own with families) attend an evangelical non-denominational church. This church has a pretty large presence in the community, and has many members over a few campuses. Overall, I’m discontent in the church because of its dispensationalism, Arminianism, Pentecostalism, and general blahness that comes with megachurches like this. However, recently it seems more and more the preaching has become worldly, and the Bible no longer seems to be central to the church. Before, I could suffer under those other things, especially since I do think that the people in the church have a true heart for God; I don’t think the church is just a cynical money-making business like so many other massive churches. I’ve brought up the fact that the preaching is not robust and is worldly to my parents and that we ought to seek out another church, but they think that I just have a difference in style preference. It also doesn’t help that they know that I disagree with other aspects of the church.
This is basically my question—should I continue to press this issue with my parents? or just stay quiet until I am 18 and they allow me to choose my own church? I want to respect and honor them, but is it honoring them to not push against us attending a misguided church? It causes a rift every time I bring it up, and I don’t want to cause division among my family. Furthermore, I believe that the people there truly love Christ, and are just misguided and have fallen into some degree of worldliness. There are some good churches in the area, including a CREC church that I would like to visit, and if not that, then there is a God-honoring PCA church that runs my school, and I personally know many of the pastors and elders because I’ve been at the school for so long.
Anyways, sorry for so wordy a letter, and I understand that you can’t have a perfect view because of your distance from the situation, but I would really appreciate any advice you can give. Also, I deeply appreciate your work in advancing the Kingdom, and praise God that he has given us you and other men to proclaim His Word.
Thanks,

David

David, this would be my advice. Stop bringing it up with your parents. Start praying that they will begin to see what you are seeing. When you turn eighteen and they let you attend where you would like, you want to head off, in their minds, as a respectful son. Don’t let them equate Reformed theology with teen-aged surliness.

End of Life Issues

I am a health-care worker who has watched many, in and out of the hospital, face end-of-life issues and processes—some with faithful strength, dignity, and grace, and others with hopeless misery and despair. Many are blind-sided by medical and ethical decisions they don’t understand and need to make quickly, under a great deal of stress.
As believers who want to honor the Lord, let us prepare ourselves with wisdom and knowledge before the crisis comes. To that end, I would love to recommend a book to you and your readers, Between Life and Death—A Gospel-Centered Guide to End-of-Life Care, by Kathleen Butler. (Last time I checked, only $13 on Amazon.) The author is a Christian and a trauma/critical-care surgeon who walks through life-support measures for the lay reader. She explains different organ-supporting measures (CPR, ventilation/intubation, artificial feeding, dialysis, etc) and what they look like in different contexts, and walks through the differences between Hospice and palliative care, vs assisted suicide.
She is guided by four principles:
Sanctity of mortal life
God’s authority over life and death
Mercy and compassion
Hope in Christ.
She is a strong advocate for Advance Care Planning (Advanced Directive, health-care proxy, etc) without telling the readers what specific decisions they should make. I have been reading through this with my own parents, and wish I could put it in everyone’s hands.

Julie

Julie, sounds great. Thanks for the recommendation.

Dirty Elections

Regarding election integrity, or lack thereof, I am sympathetic but not quite there with you and have a few questions:
1) when does savvy politics stop and interference/election meddling stop? For example, I also am dubious of mail in voting, but wasn’t it savvy of the Dems to encourage it and foolish of the Reps to discourage it? Just one example, but could perhaps apply to things like media and universities—haven’t they just done a much better job of influencing those institutions? I do agree the lawfare stuff with Trump crosses the line and is ugly banana republic stuff.
2) I notice some set themselves up for believing some form of election meddling has happened in this way “we all know Kamala could never beat Trump, so if she wins, there must have been cheating.” I agree Kamala is dislikable, but so is Trump, and this kind of thinking seems to assume most people think like you or I do. Isn’t this logic questionable?

CU

CU, two things. The reason to press for mail-in voting is that it provides a great advantage to those who are willing to cheat. If you are unwilling to do that, then mail-in voting falls into the same category as normal “get out the vote” efforts do. It is true that Trump is intensely disliked . . . by the opposition. But he does really have an enthusiastic base. Kamala does not have that. She is disliked by her own side, and they are doing all the flattering puffery they can muster because Biden got them back by saddling them with her.

Pro-Life and Voting

A few years ago I asked for your thoughts on professing Christians voting for pro-abortion politicians, if they should be barred from the Table of the Lord. I understand, and agree basically with your response, which was something like There’s times when we must vote strategically in order to get different results from that which are handed to us, by a Left-leaning “Republican” party, when we need a stark contrast with the Democrat option being foisted upon us.
So now I’m asking more specifically—in the case of specifically President, and not merely some local yokel, but the person in the (at least perceived) power seat —someone like Obama, or Biden, and now that the wheels have come off the wagon, Kamala Harris, and her deranged running mate Tim Walz. If someone professing the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, with clear conscience, and glee on their faces vote for such people, and perhaps even proudly sport a “Nancy Pelosi” bumper sticker on his/her car—should this person be barred from the Table for their support of these wicked people and the blasphemous “rights” they stand for?
Thanks for your time and consideration.

SK

SK, yes, I do believe that. If someone enthusiastically supports the party of death, there should be some level of church discipline.

Newlywed Crisis

I recently had a very difficult conversation with my husband. I realized something was wrong and making him feel down, and I asked him the cause. After a while, to my surprise, I learned he is struggling with some spiritual doubt and some depression. I will not go into the details of this for the sake of his privacy, so the most I will say is that he is feeling a lack of joy and God’s presence because of various hardships. The question I am asking is for me, as his wife. We have only been married for a little over two months, so learning how to be a good wife is something I am working on. When we had this conversation, my first gut reaction was to fix his problems. I wanted to tell him what I think he should do to feel better; to assure him of all the ways that God has answered his prayers and he just hasn’t seen; to tell him how to change his perspective to fix everything. At the same time, I was feeling a flood of emotions and doubts myself. We just got married . . . why is he unhappy? What am I doing wrong as a wife? How do I make him not feel like a failure as a husband? I encouraged him to seek spiritual help outside of our marriage, is that all I should do? Should I be sympathetic? Should I encourage him to simply just “get out of his head”? How do I encourage my husband and lift him up as his wife when he is struggling so emotionally? How do I do this in a submissive and respectful way? He is my spiritual head, I know. So how do I respectfully help him out of this, or should I at all?
I would really appreciate some advice on this.

Emma

Emma, this is really important. Because you have been married such a short time, this is a situation that will establish the pecking order in your home. You should be a sympathetic wife, but you must absolutely refuse to become his mother. You should encourage him, and you were right to encourage him to get outside help, and you should do it in such a way as to not become a regular shoulder to cry on. And your encouragement should be something like, “I married you because I respect you, and I want to encourage you in any way that is consistent expecting you to stand up straight for me.”

On Not Opening Up

A recent conversation with my wife reminded me of a post you made some time ago. To the best of my Googling, that post is probably “Lack of Communication is Key”, in which you seem to indicate—as many men intuit—that a man sharing his emotions and baring all his thoughts is simply not something that manliness lends itself to, nor is it helpful for the relationship. (You use statements such as “[Women] are good at extending sympathy to those in need of it. But they are not attracted to it” and “He is not interested in spilling out or spelling out his emotional resume” and “Lack of communication is key.” I know this has to do immediately with courting, but men and women remain men and women even after courting.
My question has to do with an argument my wife made about me not sharing my feelings (I didn’t know I was having any): “I’m supposed to give you sex because you want it, so shouldn’t you be open about your feelings because that’s what I want?” The biblical equivalent to a woman giving her body to her husband is, per 1 Corinthians, the husband giving his body to his wife. But what is the best response to this “You’re not giving me what I want” argument aside from “Technically, the reciprocal is just more sex”?

Brandon

Brandon, the wife should be responsive sexually to her husband, but that does not mean that everything he wants sexually is healthy. There are sexual practices out there that are degrading, and so something more than a man’s “wants” are needed. In the same way, the fact that a woman “wants” her husband to share his feelings the way her old girlfriends did is not healthy. Of course, he must be open with her, and communicate with her, and talk with her about what he is thinking. And if he is feeling something, they should be able to talk about that, sure. But a regular emotional tongue bath is not a good idea.

Sunday Sports

How would you approach participating in a sports event on a Sunday (Morning)? Not as a regular occurrence, perhaps once or twice a year. Does it matter if one was able to attend an evening worship service that same day? Or no go all the way round?

Reagan

Reagan, on that, I would have to say it would be a likely “no go.” But the key thing for me is missing worship. Substituting an evening service is maybe okay, but seems to me to be stretching it.

Radical and Pro-Life

I have a follow-up thought on your answer to Mike’s question from August 6th (title, “Be Prepared). Mike’s question is one that I have asked several people at many different times. I think your answer is very good, but please humor me here. I think the Biblical sentiment that you summarized as “don’t start something you can’t finish” should be fleshed out more.
In Exodus 2 when Moses killed the Egyptian, could you say he started something he could not finish? We know in hindsight that God ultimately delivered Israel through Moses, but Moses did not know this would happen at the time. He had no illusions of being bullet-proof. If we are to take Moses’ example, the only consulting he did was to make sure nobody saw him (“when he saw there was no man . . . ” Exodus 2:12).
I take your point about not doing something hastily (albeit righteously) at the expense of losing a larger war, but what if someone could do it and say . . . not get caught?
PS: Blink twice if you’re in danger.

John

John, I believe that Moses thought he was in a position to finish it, but then from the reaction he got realized that it was not so. As for the “not get caught” aspect, everybody thinks that they won’t get caught, but then they do. That said, there are moments when God provides the man. He does something that seems outrageously reckless, but then it works. Ehud got away with it.

Mentors in the Pages of Books

Some have advised for aspiring ministers to find a dead theologian or pastor that they want to emulate, and read everything they have written. If you were to speak to your younger self, and you had the time to do it, what dead Reformed theologian/pastor would you choose now for yourself to have read? Why?

Joshua

Joshua, I think I would have to say John Calvin. There is a lot there, and it is upstream from a lot of other valuable stuff.

On Making the Sword Righteous

I have now watched enough of the debate with Chris Gordon to realise that he was the friend who took issue with the line you got from Schaeffer, namely “If there is no God, then the state is god.” Apparently, also, he reckons that Tucker’s audience would have been as confused about its meaning as he was.
I find that unlikely. If I said “If lemons were blue, lemonade would be blue as well”, it would strike me as rather obtuse if someone replied “That makes no sense. Are you saying lemonade could be blue? Lemons are in fact yellow, and so is lemonade.”
Now, of course, we can imagine a world with blue lemons, while any good presuppositionalist knows that, ultimately, no-one can truly imagine a world without God. But still, some say it’s easy if you try, and they do try. That’s why the line works.
It’s also why adding nuance about whose minds are acknowledging what seems to obscure the meaning rather than to clarify. The minimum requirement to follow Schaeffer’s conditional is the ability to entertain a counterfactual. And the point of the counterfactual is to expose one of the consequences of actually trying to embrace it.
On a different note, I would like to thank you especially for Canon+. I would also like to repeat a request I’ve seen here before, on behalf of my husband, which is for content on fathers and raising daughters. May God continue to bless your work!

Laurette

Laurette, thanks very much, and request noted.

Unlikely

NottheBee.com reported a story about Democratic Rep. Jamie Raskin, in a video posted on X, stating that the Party will use the 14th Amendment Section 3 to disqualify Trump by labeling him an insurrectionist due to January 6 and possibly kick the election to Congress. This would be an excellent opportunity for Trump supporters to take the bait and give our Communist Party an excuse for martial law. Will you be writing on the Solidarity movement in Poland you have mentioned previously? If not, where can one read about it? The past four years have demonstrated that the majority of churchmen in pews are wholly committed to following Christ to the extent that it maximizes their comfort and secures their “get out of Hell free” card. For those of us who are trying to be faithful, many are at a loss of what to do. Like Lewis’s St. Anne’s community, are we to be faithful in the mundane and wait for God’s salvation or do something more? Correct me if I’m wrong, but providence appeared to be the sole source of resolving the conflict in That Hideous Strength. Thank you.

Brent

Brent, yes, but don’t count providence out. As for Raskin, his plan only works if Trump wins the presidency, and the Democrats keep the Senate and take the House. Which is unlikely. If Trump wins, there will almost certainly be down ballot consequences. And to repeat, don’t count providence out . . . because providence seems to me to be actively involved in our affairs.

Get Someone to Tell You

I’m a young man with strong opinions and an occasional lack of sensitivity to other’s feelings. I’m trying to figure out how to obey the Biblical commands to speak the truth and to rebuke falsehoods, as well as the commands to be gentle and kind. This task is especially difficult because people’s feelings (my feelings of being absolutely right and other people’s feelings of me being unkind) are not perfectly reliable. I understand that there is not a one-size-fits-all approach to this, and that the solution is ultimately discernment. Nonetheless, I would still appreciate your advice, particularly if you could provide me with any good rules of thumb.

Nathanael

Nathanael, here is what I would suggest. Come up with a list of people close to you that you have not had collisions with. Go to each of them, and ask them directly what they think of your manner and your manners. Are you kind? Brusque? Rude? What? Promise them that you will not react to them, or debate with them, no matter what they say. You are just collecting information that you promise to think and pray about. When you have their responses, you have something to think and pray about, and you have your answer. And if you cannot come up with a list of people that you haven’t had collisions with, you also have your answer.

The Imposition of Christianity

I want to thank you for your blog, for Canon+, and for the many other resources by which my family has been blessed. I am a pastor and seminary student and have only recently been interacting more with the ideas of Christian Nationalism. Something you said on your recent Blog and Mablog episode on the Sword being made Righteous sparked a question for me, or at least something that I need clarified. It may be that I’m just not understanding. You were critiquing Carl Truman’s foreword to Bannerman’s classic by pointing out how the British used their warships to emancipate slaves in the 1800’s and that this was “imposing Christianity.” My question is: was that Christianity being imposed? I agree that that was righteous or Christian standards being imposed by the power of the sword, but was that actual Christianity being imposed? It seems to me, unless I”m mistaken, that real, authentic Christianity only begins with belief in Christ and repentance. So, while Christian standards can be imposed, Christianity cannot. It may have been the case that many slaves were released, some slavers felt bad, but perhaps none bowed the knee to Christ. In that case, then no real Christianity actually took place. If you don’t have the time to respond, I understand. I see from your resources that you must be a very busy man. I’m thankful for you and your family . . . I became Reformed in one of your dad’s Christian coffee shops in Gunnison, CO and will be forever thankful.

Clayton

Clayton, strictly speaking, you are right. Suppression of the slave trade was the imposition of a Christian standard, not the imposition of Christianity itself. But the protection of Luther by Frederick was the imposition of Christianity. The preacher was left free to preach.
“Churches are Christian; it is hard to see how a nation might qualify as such.”—
Carl Trueman
“The Lord bringeth the counsel of the heathen to nought: he maketh the devices of the people of none effect. The counsel of the Lord standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations. Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.” (Psalm 33:10-12)

Melody

Melody, exactly so. Thank you.
I recently had a debate with some friends, on whether or not other religions should be allowed building permits to set up their own temples. Now all of us are Christian Nationalists, I myself am still working out what that means, but they at least know what they believe in that regard. We were walking through Washington D.C. and walked by some sort of Buddhist Temple or Shrine near the embassies of our various allies, and they decried its existence. They tried to justify it by saying that the founding fathers would never have allowed some sort of pagan shrine to be set up and would never grant building permits to Muslims, Buddhists, or anything like that, that they only have the freedom to worship. Their reasoning is that the only reason that Christians get to have their own buildings and such is because we’re right. Duh. They tend reason that way about a lot of things.
While I believe that certain religious practices should not be legal (like child sacrifice or honor killings), I believe that it’s OK for the pagans to set up their own buildings and shrines to worship. I’m not a hyper pluralist, and still want to evangelize them, but I feel as if it is unfair, unconstitutional, and unrighteous to deny our pagan neighbors the same rights we have. What do you have to say about all that? Does that fit with Christian Nationalism, and more importantly, the Christian Life?

Kenneth

Kenneth, I do think that—way down the road—the magistrate should make a distinction between different kinds of houses of worship, but not through an outright ban. The Founding Fathers did allow for synagogues. On a practical level, I think the problem should be addressed via our immigration policy—do not let massive numbers of Hindus or Muslims come in. These houses of worship are being planted here because entire populations are being planted here first. And I would allow for church bells, but not Muslim minarets or prayer towers. In short, a lot of bridges we can cross when we get there.
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Barnabas
Barnabas
1 month ago

I noticed you dropped Jeffrey Epstein’s name again this week. I’d just like to point out that Epstein was engaging in sex trafficking and blackmail on behalf of the same Israeli government that you shill for on a weekly basis.

Dave
Dave
1 month ago
Reply to  Barnabas

Still, Epstein didn’t kill himself. Even you should be concerned about that murder.

Our current administration is involved in sex trafficking and not very many folks are concerned about it at all. The politicians are pushing for slavery reparations based on skin color but are unconcerned with today’s slavery right here in the US.

You may want to strike where the fire actually is.

Barnabas
Barnabas
1 month ago
Reply to  Dave

You don’t seem to be concerned about Epstein’s murder. You seem to be eager to change the subject from “our greatest ally” running a massive blackmail operation on American political and business leaders for years.

Dave
Dave
1 month ago
Reply to  Barnabas

Actually, I am concerned with Epstein’s murder. However, you are one of the few who listened to me and the rest covered their ears like little children. But you incorrectly attributed my comment to that which it was not. My Russian, Ukrainian, Eastern European or African colleagues all had vastly different opinions on who was really running things in the world. Some thought the Jews in general as you do, while some felt it was Jewish individuals who left the faith completely thus being Jews by birth only, and others targeted those with more money than small countries or other… Read more »

Barnabas
Barnabas
1 month ago
Reply to  Dave

Another attempt to change the subject. I didn’t say practicing or non-practicing Jews. I’m referring specifically to the Epstein operation and to the government intelligence services of the state of Israel.

Last edited 1 month ago by Barnabas
Andrew Trauger
Andrew Trauger
1 month ago

Regarding Sunday sports (and evening worship services): I was always of the mind that, historically speaking, evening worship services came about for practical reasons, such as farmers had to tend their crops during the daylight hours or shift workers on graveyard shifts had to sleep during the day. In a similar vein, Sunday School was actual school taught on Sundays because farmers’ kids were in the fields during the week. This is old, agri history…or so I’ve been told. So, IF that is all historically accurate, would that mean an evening service is functionally equivalent to a morning service; that… Read more »

Dave
Dave
1 month ago
Reply to  Andrew Trauger

You should ask yourself why professional sports moved to Sundays instead of Friday night or Saturday.

Andrew Trauger
Andrew Trauger
1 month ago
Reply to  Dave

I have asked myself that question, and my observations, spanning the time it was largely unpracticed to being commonplace today, suggests that Sunday became less and less a holy day in the eyes of our culture, which is in keeping with a preponderance of other evidences that we, as a culture, have walked away and disregarded our Christian heritage on the whole. Or, to be more concise, the unbelieving world pushed the envelope of Sabbatarian laws and customs, and we the Church let them. But setting aside pro sports–a business–for the moment, what are we to do about our own… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Andrew Trauger
Jeff
Jeff
1 month ago
Reply to  Andrew Trauger

This belongs in a much larger context and discussion of the 4th Commandment.

Andrew Lohr
Andrew Lohr
1 month ago
Reply to  Andrew Trauger

God forbid we celebrate “The Lord’s SUPPER” Sunday NIGHT–it HAS to be BEFORE NOON. RPW, aka church habit, aka tradition. (I’ve heard of one group that thinks the Supper must be celebrated upstairs in a rented facility.) Gene Edwards of interesting memory: Any time a church does something three times in a row, after that it becomes a New Testament doctrine. //// OK, sometimes God does lay down the law; sometimes He advises; sometimes he sets forth an example he seems to approve; sometimes he makes his preference known. And sometimes we put something we’re used to, or like, into… Read more »

The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
1 month ago
Reply to  Andrew Trauger

Surprised no one brought the Scripture: Romans 14:5-7.

If you’re convinced Sundays are sacrosanct, then for you, they are sacrosanct. If you consider every day to be alike, then for you, there’s nothing wrong with participating in a Sunday morning sports event once or twice a year. It is equally possible to honor God both in church and on the field.

John
John
1 month ago

The question then of course becomes this — is Paul referring to the Lord’s Day when he refers to “days”? And that has to be decided by appealing to other Scripture passages, because Romans 14:5-7 isn’t decisive on its own.

Last edited 1 month ago by John
John Middleton
John Middleton
1 month ago
Reply to  John

Those who who maintain all days does not really mean all days are the ones obliged to do the appealing.

John
John
1 month ago
Reply to  John Middleton

“All” is used differently throughout Scripture. “All men will be saved” — but clearly this is qualified in some way, as reprobation is clearly taught by Christ. Similarly, Colossians 2:16-17 tells us not to judge one another in matters of food or drink, yet clearly drunkenness and gluttony are strongly prohibited in Scripture. I would understand these texts as broadly referring to various outward/external ceremonies not required for new covenant believers, such as OT dietary restrictions and ceremonial feast days. A good case can be made for putting the Sabbath in a different category. Unlike these ceremonial practices, it was… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by John
John Middleton
John Middleton
1 month ago
Reply to  John

Not to change the subject, but All men will be saved is not a statement scripture makes in either without or with qualification.

No, where a plain reading would render all days as, all days, the burden of proof remains on those who claim the plain reading needs to be qualified. Even if they are right, necessary appeals to other statements and passages in scripture serve to demonstrate my point.

Again, not to change the subject, but actually plenty of Christians would argue that commandments of the law are no longer binding, as such.

John Middleton
John Middleton
1 month ago
Reply to  John

Also, if we’re going to appeal to the Ten Commandments to make a case for putting the sabbath in a different category, we ought to mean what the commandment means by the sabbath.

Andrew Lohr
Andrew Lohr
1 month ago
Reply to  John

Let no man judge you in regard to Sabbaths, Colossians?

The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
1 month ago
Reply to  Andrew Lohr

Yup, Colossians 2:16-17.

John
John
1 month ago
Reply to  Andrew Lohr

Fair point. I’ve read that “Sabbaths” in this context has a slightly different connotation due to the Greek word used and refers to Jewish holidays, but as I haven’t personally studied the issue I really am not in a position to debate it here.

Last edited 1 month ago by John
Ken B
Ken B
1 month ago

Precisely, it really is that simple.

Whilst I think it is a good idea to have a day off each week and I don’t like Sunday trading, you cannot make it a compulsory religious duty for Christians without putting them back under the law of Moses, in which case they have to keep all of the law.

Try discussing this with Seventh Day Adventists – they to date have never shown me the 4th commandment is enjoined on gentile Christians, and just don’t seem to get the verses (and similar ones) you quoted.

John
John
1 month ago
Reply to  Ken B

To be clear, I wasn’t claiming that the civil government should mandate Sunday as a day of rest. Nor am I accusing Christians who consider Saturday to be the Sabbath as necessarily acting sinfully.

Bill Peacock
1 month ago
Reply to  Andrew Trauger

One problem I have with substituting a Sunday evening service is that the Sabath is over by that time. I’m sure you know that the Jews’ days went from sundown to sundown. From that perspective, Sunday evening is actually Monday morning. I’m not trying to be legalistic about this; I just think it highlights how all of us are too often willing to make accommodations for our activities at the expense of our worship.

Andrew Lohr
Andrew Lohr
1 month ago

Re bro Gordon, I think I’ve said here before: Iain Murray’s book The Puritan Hope has a great chapter on why, no matter how good the millennium gets, the 2nd coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is greatly to be desired. (I don’t suppose postmils are the only saints who can get so busy they forget about the 2nd coming.) /// I agree with amils about the length and imperfect character of the millennium (1st to 2nd comings); define “postmil” as confidently expecting–understanding Scripture to teach–that at some point before Jesus comes back, most people will be Christian… Read more »

E
E
1 month ago

“way down the road—the magistrate should make a distinction between different kinds of houses of worship, but not through an outright ban”

1&2 Kings talk about about what the kings did (and mostly did _not_ do) with the high places, including 2 Kings 12:3, 14:4, 15:4, 15:35.

But Hezekiah removed them, and is praised (2 Kings 18:3-6).

Given that pattern, “way down the road”, why would you not support the removal of the high places in this country?

Zeph
1 month ago

Clayton, if you want to study the forcing of Christianity, in American History, then the place to look is the Carlisle School. From the time that Indians were forced onto Reservations, until after WW2, Large numbers of Native American children were taken away from their parents and sent to Indian Boarding Schools. In these places, they were punished for speaking their languages and depending on the school, priests and protestant pastors tried to force convert these kids. Most Indians that you might meet had at least one ancestor who went to those places. You Tube has some good videos on… Read more »

Jane
Jane
1 month ago
Reply to  Zeph

If they oly “tried to,” how was it “force”?

Usually when we say “force,” we mean leaving the object of the force with no viable choice. This doesn’t sound like it was that, by your own description.

Note: I’m not defending this situation — I don’t even know enough about it to have a opinion. But it just doesn’t sound like a great example of force, at least the way you explained it.

Jill L Smith
Jill L Smith
1 month ago
Reply to  Jane

In Canada, the federal government paid the Catholic, Anglican, and United (formerly Presbyterian and Methodist) churches to operate residential schools. The majority of the schools were Catholic because there was no shortage of nuns and brothers to staff them at a very low cost. Many indigenous children whose parents were not Catholic (or any kind of Christian) ended up spending their childhood in Catholic residential schools. I knew a few nuns who worked at these schools although, by the time I knew them, conditions had improved and the discipline was less brutal. They didn’t talk about abuse to me; they… Read more »

Barnabas
Barnabas
1 month ago
Reply to  Jill L Smith

The mass graves were fake though.

Cherrera
Cherrera
1 month ago
Reply to  Barnabas

Yes, and that makes you wonder about some of the other accounts that perfectly fit the “colonizers bad” narrative. Since the mass graves hoax, dozens of churches in Canada have been set on fire, too.

Jill L Smith
Jill L Smith
1 month ago
Reply to  Cherrera

The well documented abuses don’t really need much enhancement.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3787164/

Zeph
1 month ago
Reply to  Barnabas

Where are you getting your information? How many of the children died of the Spanish Influenza outbreak? That would have filled a graveyard, quickly.

Jill L Smith
Jill L Smith
1 month ago
Reply to  Zeph

Nobody disputes that children died at the residential schools. School and government records list around 4,000 deaths but the number is probably higher as some records were lost in fires. As well, some schools did record those deaths but didn’t report them to the federal government for fear of inspectors coming by to see how the children were being treated. Most of these children were buried at the cemeteries attached to their schools. The “mass graves” claim isn’t about the children whose deaths were recorded. The claim is that the schools didn’t record all deaths, especially the deaths resulting from… Read more »

Cherrera
Cherrera
1 month ago
Reply to  Jill L Smith

Funny how this is stuff is well accepted by the mainstream because it fits the narrative, but there’s arguably more and better evidence for the “Satanic Panic” (Finders, Franklin cover-up) that was laughed off because it involved the occult and intel agencies. False memories sure are selective.
Researcher John Brisson of We’ve Read The Documents on the recent Finders cult FBI Drop. (youtube.com)

Last edited 1 month ago by C Herrera
Jill L Smith
Jill L Smith
1 month ago
Reply to  Cherrera

False memories are always a possibility and it seems that for children brought up in “care” (orphanages, residential schools, reform schools) the stories are very similar. Which should make us look for corroboration before believing the worst. Most of what I know of the schools comes from government records,the criminal prosecution of pedophile priests and brothers, the well documented medical experiments, and what nuns who worked at the schools told me.

Cherrera
Cherrera
1 month ago
Reply to  Jill L Smith

So evidence like tunnels underneath a day care center and hundreds of animal bones might point to something horrific, right? That was found (and a lot more at other locations) but was written off completely as a silly panic with those darn false memory kids.
https://youtu.be/hLe0OItf9NE?si=9WaYWzNfiCFUvujz

Chris
Chris
1 month ago
Reply to  Cherrera

*cough*

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Cherrera
Cherrera
1 month ago
Reply to  Chris

You must be happy with Walz. Maybe you have some of the same hobbies?

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Cherrera
Cherrera
1 month ago
Reply to  Cherrera

At least we may now have a clue why he went to China 30+ times.


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Chris
Chris
1 month ago
Reply to  Cherrera
Cherrera
Cherrera
1 month ago
Reply to  Chris

Chris has some serious reading comp issues: “The ex-president used the late convicted sex offender’s plane after his own jet developed engine problems “It is a different plane from another former Epstein-owned aircraft dubbed the “Lolita Express” that was at the center of a sex-trafficking case filed against him before his 2019 suicide. The late financier sold that plane in 2017, and it has since been destroyed. “The campaign had no awareness that the charter plane had been owned by Mr Epstein,” a spokesperson for the Trump campaign told the newspaper. “We heard about the former owner through the media.”… Read more »

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Chris
Chris
1 month ago
Reply to  Cherrera

Your ticket has two of the most makeup wearing men in America 🤭🤣 Keep writing these screeds into the void

Chris
Chris
1 month ago
Reply to  Cherrera

Any clue why PP Pance wears guyliner?

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Last edited 1 month ago by Chris
Jill L Smith
Jill L Smith
1 month ago
Reply to  Barnabas

Yes, they were. The death rates at the schools were much higher than for children living with their parents, even in the days before antibiotics and vaccinations. This was partly due to chronic underfeeding (records confirm the children were very underweight for their height) and partly due to enormous dormitories and a failure to isolate sick children. But I doubted that nuns would have gone along with mass graves in unconsecrated ground. If the parents could afford cost, the bodies of dead children were returned to the reserves for burial. Otherwise they were buried in a school cemetery or wherever… Read more »

Barnabas
Barnabas
1 month ago
Reply to  Jill L Smith

Maybe. The 600 bodies thing just goes to show you can’t be TOO skeptical.

Zeph
1 month ago
Reply to  Jill L Smith

Same story in the States and I understand Australia has a similar history.

Jane
Jane
1 month ago
Reply to  Jill L Smith

It was only forcible conversion if it succeeded. If It was possible to resist and yet survive the process more or less intact, it wasn’t force. That’s my only point.

Enthusiastic attempts to persuade, even a captive audience, aren’t force if the stakes are not high enough to create near-total compliance.

If it was as you describe, then it was force. But the comment I was responding to was “tried to force,” which means it wasn’t actually force, to some extent at least.

Gray
Gray
1 month ago
Reply to  Jane

I have no dog in the issue; my quibble is in the understanding of the use of force. Defining force as “not force” if one has the ability to resist it is not a usage that I have ever experienced. The resistance itself is a use of force. That one force is stronger does not preclude that the other was not force.

Jane
Jane
1 month ago
Reply to  Gray

In this context, it’s not forced conversions if there wasn’t a high rate of conversions. Force isn’t something the majority of people resist without dire consequences. If there was, then it’s a moot point. What’s motivating me here is that there’s a strong tendency among some to equate a sincere belief in and diligent practice of an evangelistic mission to people previously beyond the reach of the gospel message, to “force.” I just tend to be suspicious of what’s meant by “force” and when people start saying things like “tried to force” then that calls into question how much force… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Jane
Barnabas
Barnabas
1 month ago
Reply to  Jill L Smith

Those were do-gooder whites trying to uplift brown people. A problem then as now.

Cherrera
Cherrera
1 month ago
Reply to  Barnabas

We should’ve left all inidigenous people alone since those noble savages are clearly our moral superiors



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Last edited 1 month ago by C Herrera
Chris
Chris
1 month ago
Reply to  Cherrera

Some recent European cultures that ultra right wing Americans often valorize chose a different path.

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MidwestJohn
MidwestJohn
1 month ago

But a regular emotional tongue bath is not a good idea.” Of all of the zinger word pictures of yours I’ve read in the past 5-6 years, Doug, this was a show-stopper. Laughing out loud, rolling on the floor, all of it. That. Was. Amazing.

Robert
Robert
1 month ago

ha “my admirable girth” :)
I believe Pastor Wilson’s father also had such a girth and I have figured he inherited it.
Along those lines, I remember reading an old Reader’s Digest from the 30’s? or 40’s? …. (back when doctors used to smoke Camels in the advertisements)… and in some article… I just remember the line… the writer said about someone that “he had a robust pot belly”!
“robust pot belly”
… that’s all.

Barnabas
Barnabas
1 month ago

Ironic to see Doug Wilson refer to Dabney when he’s the poster boy for Dabney’s “Northern Conservatism.” The very topic Dabney is discussing is women’s suffrage which Wilson supports.

Barnabas
Barnabas
1 month ago
Reply to  Douglas Wilson

Had you been around quite likely you would have opposed it. That’s Dabney’s point, the opposed issue of the day becomes something accepted or celebrated tomorrow.

Barnabas
Barnabas
1 month ago
Reply to  Douglas Wilson

I don’t know that you were bribed by Jews though Jewish organizations clearly do use bribery and it wouldn’t be the first time they’ve bribed an Evangelical figure. I don’t know that you were blackmailed by Jews though the Epstein operation shows that the practice is widespread. I think most likely it’s just that the social circumstances of the last few years have revealed you to be a moral coward. Dabney again on just this type of conservatism, “It intends to risk nothing serious for the sake of the truth, and has no idea of being guilty of the folly… Read more »

J.F. Martin
J.F. Martin
1 month ago
Reply to  Barnabas

Barnabas, clearly Pastor Wilson doesn’t need me to defend him…you even got your own response. Probably extra points for however you score your online influence.

“Coward” is just a long four letter word, but when it’s true, and said with love, it can actually give you courage. (Frank Davis)

I can’t think of a single think you’ve posted that’s actually been both true and said with love. Do you have you’re own blog where I can learn more about your ideas? Perhaps you communicate them there in a manner that isn’t so exasperating.

Andrew Lohr
Andrew Lohr
1 month ago

Did anyone take, say, a chess clock to the Gordon discussion to see how much time he spoke and how much time y’all?

Chris
Chris
1 month ago
Reply to  Andrew Lohr

Just subtract about 2:35:00 from 2:52:41, that should get you in the rough ball park for each side. Keep a look out for part 2, “Getting to, all that, I was going to get to”.