All Things COVID
Did you mean Panic Born in the Aftermath? or Panic Porn in the Aftermath? Your meaning was less clear than usual if you meant the latter.
Michelle
Michelle, apologies. I should have defined that. I meant the eager embrace of the “duty” to accept the establishment narrative, and to subsequently get a kick out of all of the dire predictions.
I can’t help but think that Panic Porn and Zombie Porn are two expressions of the same strange worship this generation has become emblematic for. The gist of their intense interest in the apocalyptic meltdown of humanity seems to be: they’re educated above the status of third world paupers, and they’ve inherited such financial and civic gifts beyond all imagining from our forbears that they face very few real difficulties in life. They’ve dogmatically trained into one another widespread adoption of 60’s free love and the superiority of canines over human children. What to do with all this time, wealth of resources, and selfish obsession with avoiding any real responsibility at all costs? The common solution seems to be self-hatred. Given that they exist to serve their own pleasures above all else, the means to mostly accomplish this fiat, and the reliability towards their own ilk of a pack of drug-addicted bums in possession of rusty knives, they have come to realize their self serving materialistic existence has no purpose whatsoever for continuing. The spiritual awareness bequeathed to them living in a post Christian nation shines a glimmer of light on their privileged yet wretched state, and they are keenly aware that they are judged by their seniors. And so in a sort of Arch anti-repentance, a final confessional in the vein of Frank Sinatra’s way, they are not-so-secretly anticipating and even relishing the violent and terrifying end of it all. Since the one thing they appear to hate almost as much as God and true repentance is themselves. Yet this attitude will all vanish in a twinkle as they have grossly underestimated the one whose hands they have fallen into should they continue this course.
A very appropriate message for this generation may be — there is something better than receiving justice at the hands of a deadly virus or a walking corpse: letting God put to death the evil in you that makes you want to end it all. Then, by His strength and grace towards your wretched soul, you can become someone new altogether, and instead of wishing for the death of the world, you can look forward to living in His goodness — forever. Your thoughts on how these phenomenons of social magnetism to both panic and apocalypse would be greatly appreciated.
Patrick
Patrick, yes. I really believe that guilt and self-loathing are at the heart of many of our modern ills.
Re: Understanding Panic Porn in the Aftermath
An editorial in the WSJ on Sunday gives hope that at least a few prominent individuals won’t let the government overreach be ignored.
Then an article in today’s version (4/28) explains the long game.
Trump and fifty governors will figure out ways to paint themselves in the best light, but I really wish there were credible third-party candidates at all levels. (In this case, “credible” means “has good policies and track record, speaks well, chance of winning > 0%”.)
We might need a man like Warren G. Harding. He had some moral issues, but we’re used to that now. Less well known is that he presided over the huge reduction of the budget from the highs reached fighting Wilson’s War. I hear he also played a decent game of poker.
John
John, thanks.
Thank you for your recent articles on Covid-19. I think I agree with most of what you have said.
I have one particular question. In relaying the different statistics (for example, the death percentages) to friends, I’ve run up against this argument:
“The deaths are upwards of 50k. Flu is yearly 50k-60k. So combined, there’s 110k deaths in both flu and covid. This is with the quarantine. Can you imagine how bad it would be without a quarantine?”
I’m wondering how to respond to this, seeing as the death percentage rate for Covid is less than .03%?
Thank you in advance for your help.
God bless,
Seth
Seth, this argument is simply assuming that general lock downs do any good. We know that quarantining the infectious does good, but we don’t know that at all with this situation. The key phrase in their set-up is “can you imagine.” Well, yes, I can. I can imagine doing it like Sweden.
Came across a little book by your wife over 25 years ago and here I am happily married and in a CREC church as of 4 yrs ago. First, thank you for . . . a lot! Second, can you do some research on vaccines? I think my education only goes to about 10th grade and I’m struggling to understand the science. :( I think that’s the next ‘big’ right we will be happily giving up as a nation; Our bodies to mandated vaccines. Never thought I’d correspond but when it comes to my children, well. Thank you for your preaching, writing and teaching, it has edified our family immensely!
Carla
Carla, greetings. I don’t know if you are asking about vaccines generally, or about particular problematic vaccines. In either case, this is the only thing I have done so far.
Regarding your post entitled, “So Let’s Call It the No Legal Footing Lock Down”, your mention that we are quarantining everyone instead of just the people that need quarantining was probably the first time I read of anyone else expressing that idea. I’ve been calling it, maybe somewhat inaccurately, a ‘reverse quarantine’ for some time now. Who came up with this, anyway?
Lewis
Lewis, I honestly don’t know who came up with it, but it is a genuinely bad idea.
I’ve greatly appreciated your work and insights over the years. Thanks for all your good work in the Lord. I recently sent of a letter to my state leaders that you may like to read. It’s along the same lines of evaluation you taken up here on your post “So Let’s Call It the No Legal Footing Lock Down”. I lay out four reasons to oppose the lock down. I posted it on my blog: link.
Again, keep it up brother!
All for Christ,
Corey
Corey, thanks.
Thank you for your faithfulness to God’s word and His church. Also I am thankful for the CREC’s courageous letter. I hope other churches will start displaying the same courage and comprehensive love for our neighbors. I have the same concerns that you and your colleagues about government tyranny and the devastated lives due to their disastrous policies .
My church in Wisconsin is still complying with our local governor’s lock down order and I asked my pastor what was his and the session’s rationale behind abiding to the governor’s extended decree. Our town is not a hot zone. I had no intention of arguing with him at the time because my research is not complete and I am not a good debater. He responded because the CDC and governor told us to. Seeing my angry face from his participation in drinking the same Kool Aid almost everyone else has, he pressed me until I told him about the shady reporting guidelines and violations of civil liberties occurring all over the country. He responded that being an alarmist was a bad witness for Christ because the secular world would view us as “Trump Supporters” afraid of losing power and affluence, and he said the church shouldn’t hold the Constitution equal to the Bible. He then discussed how eschatology, a subject I haven’t studied extensively, affected how churches reacted to this crisis. My PCA pastor is an amillennialist and criticized churches like Apologia Church for their opposition because of their postmillennial views. What are your thoughts on amillennialism? Most of the material I found from the Ezra Institute, Canon Press, and Apologia Studios engages premillennialism. I read my pastor’s paper from RTS on amillennialism. He argued that the church advances through suffering like Christ in what seemed to me in a passive manner. I have admired Christ Church, Apologia Church, and the Ezra Institute for its assertive opposition to the evils of Western culture. My pastor is my dear friend but I am concerned that his amillennialist position supports passivity and cultural retreat. I am a 32 year old single man from NY state who has read the unabridged version of the Gulag Archipelago, and I do not want to witness an equivalent totalitarian nightmare on our native soil. While my hope is ultimately in Christ’s kingdom, I want to be responsible for stewarding what God has given me and not to be recorded in history for allowing evil to go unchallenged. Thank you.
Brent
Brent, yes, and thanks. I haven’t developed it yet, but I do believe that eschatology is a driver in much of this.
You have said on repeated occasions that you believe the civil magistrate has the authority to quarantine the sick by force. Can you provide biblical justification for this? Is there a punishment that God identifies for those lepers that refuse to self-quarantine? The question is: was it a sin in the OT to violate a self-quarantine, or was it a crime? Or was a crime only committed if someone infected someone else thru their negligence?
The biblical text commands Moses to command the people to quarantine the sick. It nowhere says that if a leper approached the camp that they are to be stoned. However, it does seem reasonable that they could be stoned if they infected someone else through their negligence. This would be evident in the equity of the law regarding a parapet, for instance. Negligence resulting in physical harm was a crime.
Please clarify your position or provide more biblical justification for giving the magistrate this authority. Thanks again for your tireless defense of the gospel. Although I am challenging you on this issue, I hold you in very high esteem.
Isaac
Isaac, you are right that there is no assigned penalty in Scripture for the leper who violated quarantine. But there is also no indication that the condition was voluntary — it was not a self-quarantine. The contagious person was put outside the camp.
“And the leper in whom the plague is, his clothes shall be rent, and his head bare, and he shall put a covering upon his upper lip, and shall cry, Unclean, unclean. All the days wherein the plague shall be in him he shall be defiled; he is unclean: he shall dwell alone; without the camp shall his habitation be” (Lev. 13:45–46).
At the very least, he was forced to dwell alone, whether he wanted that or not
Thank you for being a bright light of biblical insight, logic, and thoughtfulness – with some good humor thrown in — during a time where there is very little. No one wants to debate or consider ideas contrary to what the talking heads on TV are saying, but I appreciate your little corner of the interwebs that is doing so.
I want to address your argument in, “So Let’s Call It the No Legal Footing Lock Down” on the legality of the lock-down orders. While I am not from Idaho, you carefully showed how your governor is misinterpreting and misapplying what a quarantine is. However, looking at your states own statutes, I think it can be argued the legality of his order is in question before you get even to the quarantine portion.
There is a clause at the end of 46-601 that should have made any use of an Executive Order at this case null and void. It states that the Governor may institute an Executive Order in an Extreme Emergency “. . . which conditions by reason of their magnitude are or are likely to be beyond the control of the services, personnel, equipment and facilities of any county, any city, or any city and county.”
It seems that the lock-down orders nationwide were based on the idea mentioned in this clause — to ensure health care systems and cities and counties were able to handle the case loads of COVID patients. However, as you have already pointed out in previous posts on bad models, this has been absolutely proven to not be necessary. In reality, hospitals across the country are furloughing and laying off staff due to lack of work. Outside of a handful of hospitals in the NYC Metro area, the country as whole can handle whatever may be out there. So your governor’s and my governor’s Executive Orders (and many others), fail to meet any justification whatsoever, whether they are properly quarantining folks or not. The actual data on the ground is proving that the private health industry and private citizens can handle this pandemic just fine without government intervention.
So the question is when will your governor or mine — or any for that matte — admit that they overshot their orders? They were not needed. The curve is well flattened. And instead of flattening the economy, the health care system itself, and our Constitution, they just own their miscalculation and get us back to work. I think you are right. We need to kick back now or four more years of a populist president won’t be able to set this ship right.
Thanks for your ministry.
Andrew
Andrew, yes. You are absolutely right. Not only were our hospitals not overwhelmed, we artificially and through coercion underwhelmed them. The situation is the very reverse of what would justify these emergency measures.
Pastor Wilson, in regards to your “So Let’s Call It the No Legal Footing Lock Down” I’m curious as to what you make of the Idaho code 46-1008 (5)(d):
(5) In addition to any other powers conferred upon the governor by law, he may:
(d) Subject to any applicable requirements for compensation under section 46-1012, Idaho Code, commandeer or utilize any private property, real or personal, if he finds this necessary to cope with the disaster emergency; link.
It honestly looks to me like he could make a case that forcibly shutting down businesses is a type of commandeering of private property. As immoral, ill-informed, and abusive as the action may have been, do you agree that the letter of the law seems to permit this?
I’m also curious as to whether the aforementioned section 46-1012 indicates that compensation must be provided for the loss of revenue during this time. This may be the most relevant excerpt:
(3) Compensation for property shall be only if the property was commandeered or otherwise used in coping with a disaster emergency and its use or destruction was ordered by the governor or his representative. Link.
Thanks,
David
David, you make some good points. I would simply add that in a time of genuine crisis and emergency, I have no objection to the commandeering of private property — provided just compensation is provided for by law. But we have to provide some definitions that prohibit any such activity for any event short of a Klingon invasion.
Re: No Legal Footing—I have no disagreement with your summation of the viral apocalypse, and have been enjoying the respite of reading some sanity on Mondays and Wednesdays. But a couple of questions . . . I think the very play that is being run here is indeed arguing that we are all sick, or likely to be sick. It seems the experts’ list of probable COVID-19 symptoms grows longer every day—and if you have been so blessed as to not have coughed, sneezed, had tummy troubles or fatigue or a headache or itchy eyes or goodness knows what else for the past 14 days, hold it right there, buster. The experts also state that being asymptomatic is a symptom of COVID-19, and probably the most common symptom, as it turns out. How do you win the “No Legal Ground” argument here, when the list of symptoms has been so loaded as to not exclude anyone?
Further, can you elaborate as to why the time to “kick” is now, as opposed to 5 weeks or so ago, when the lock downs began? The wording of the Idaho Code has not changed during this time frame—thus, the quarantine and isolation order was just as illegal then as it is now. Why the shift in tone from giving authorities the benefit of the doubt about the virus? If thousands were dying of/with COVID in Idaho, would this justify the governor’s usurpation of power? I ask because I am all for kicking, but I greatly fear that the church is very soon going to wish she had been kicking from the get-go, instead of meekly submitting to the orders to close her doors.
And, of course, any practical helps on how to kick would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you for your work!
Micah
Micah, yes. My default has been that public health emergencies are the responsibility of the civil magistrate, and I want to be a good citizen. But with that said, you are right. I do wish that I had looked up the references in the Idaho Code at the beginning of this mess. You are right — it was over-reach from the beginning, and we have been playing catch-up from the beginning.
As an elder in my church the decision on when to open the church for weekly in-person worship is weighing on me. Since my governor has issued unlawful stay at home orders what do you think is my duty to obey the authority placed over me? Do we have a command from God to obey unlawful orders issued by an unlawful government?
Tim
Tim, I would say that it depends on your local circumstances. This involves a cost/benefit analysis. But I can say that it is your responsibility to get your congregation back together at the first practical opportunity.
I am curious which of these two statements you might agree with (or perhaps neither), given our current situation:
1. Love your neighbor by wearing a mask in public. It shows your care for their health, keeps the peace, and maybe even avoids causing a weaker brother to stumble.
2. Love your neighbor by not wearing a mask in public. Anything that promotes the societal delusion that we are in such a level of danger as to warrant full quarantine is prolonging the economic ruin of that neighbor.
Joseph
Joseph, it really depends on what part of the country you are in. A New York subway is one thing, and a Stop and Go convenience store in the rural stretches of Montana is quite another. But taking all things into consideration, I believe that we should lean away from the general panic.
Random Miscellany
I encountered you for the first time yesterday after lunch when I stumbled across John Pipers YouTube video, An Evening of Eschatology, from 2012, I think. Since then, I have also watched your Sexual by Design speeches and the Q&A which followed. I feel my life is somewhat bereft, having lived 52 years and only just now encountered you.
You comported yourself masterfully. Maybe that should be Master-fully because I can say I have never seen anyone so clearly and thoroughly demonstrate the love of Christ while also taking such clear and well-defended stances. Thank you for your willingness to engage. Bless you, for doing so in a way that I am sure makes the triune God we worship proud. I honestly thought while watching you, “Huh? I bet this is what Paul was like as he was brought before Festus and Agrippa.” Well done.
I look forward to reading your books and blogs and watching/listening to you on YouTube. Your combination of good humor and in-depth Biblical knowledge is most engaging.
Have you ever dialogued with Jordan Peterson? If so, please point me to where I can imbibe that conversation; if not, please consider doing so. He strikes me as someone that has come tangentially close to Christ because he is such an ardent seeker of truth, and Christ is THE Truth. I think you might just be the one who could nudge Jordan over the line. Well, that is to say, I think you might be a clear enough mirror that Jesus could reveal himself to Jordan through you and then draw him unto Himself.
To Him be the Glory forever and ever! Godspeed.
Dave
Dave, many thanks. No, I have not yet had the pleasure of interacting with Jordan Peterson. Maybe someday.
On a scale of one to ten, what is your level of delight/amusement when hearing and reading Greg Bahnsen’s son David Bahnsen on markets and the economy?
John Quincy Adams wrote “I am a warrior so that my son may be a merchant so that his son may be a poet.” If true, David’s son will surely be one of our great poets.
Phillip
Phillip, yes. I think David Bahnsen is going to be an important voice in the next generation.
In the article “Sauron, Saruman, and Samwise” from May 28th of ’07, you said “In conclusion, the basis thing we have to remember — going back to Tolkien — is that Sauron and Saruman were not robber barons, or multinational corporations, or grasping capitalists. They were the government.” Can you tell me the difference between multinational corps , grasping capitalists and government? Assuming you come to the proper conclusion that they are one and indivisible since, I don’t know, about 1860 in this country, could you maybe see that THAT may have been at least part of what Dreher and Berry and Tolkien were getting at? And, assuming you come to the proper conclusions, would you reshape and sum up the article with these new understandings in mind?
Tom
Tom, I am a free market guy, not a pro-big-business guy. And that means that corporations that are in cozy with the government are what I call crapitalism, not capitalism.
It has only been in the last year or so that I have found your preaching, teaching, blogging and I love it all, especially your family. But what caused me to come write to you is the song . . . Hold Your Peace has become my favorite song (I also only discovered reformed theology in the last few years) but the message is perfect and the music is so fantastic, I blast it on my stereo daily! More please! And thank you so much for all your content. I hope to make it to the reschedule of your debate with Dr. White. Your Idaho neighbor from the down the road a piece. :)
Kris
Kris, thank you for the very kind words.
Huh. Entire state of Arkansas (and we are one of the loathed didn’t-do-full-lockdown states), has been designated a “disaster area” by executive order. Governor does have ability to limit ALL movement within such a zone. And yet…the law code that defines “disaster” does indeed indicate that it has to be either 1) downed utilities or 2) overwhelming to local resources. Doesn’t seem to me that the virus itself is doing any overwhelming hereabouts – hospitals are seeking to reopen elective surgeries. And my water, electricity, gas are still flowing…
Thanks, Pastor Doug, for responding to my letter again. Perhaps “self-quarantine” was the wrong word for me to use. I only meant that without a specific criminal penalty, it seems that God was commanding those with leprosy to love their neighbors by keeping their distance. Again, this implies it would have been a sin to approach the camp, but not a crime. All that to say, the distinction is still crucial. Once we grant in principle that the government’s sphere of authority extends over non-criminal activities (i.e. moving about while sick, smoking pot, owning a gun, doing business with foreigners,… Read more »
Not in answer to Micah above regarding “how to kick”, but just as a general principle: I think that the proper Christian method of kicking (in the instant context) is to use the appropriate tool(s). Since there is a legitimate provision in law for redress of grievances, a respect for law and a corresponding extension of honor to our rulers would be to address the perceived wrongs by initiating legal actions. A quick view of what The Center for American Liberty (and other similar organizations) are doing in this vein is an example of what I think is the proper… Read more »
I’ve been hearing a whole lot of Romans 13 talk in Christian circles but not enough Daniel 6 talk. Might be time to open up the windows.
Gray, initiating legal action is a reasonable course. But I doubt Douglas Wilson is going to pony up for the cause any of his hard earned tithes and offerings. While I disagree with the protesters’ premise that it’s their constitutional right to put their neighbors in danger, at least they they had the temerity to back it up with action. Ask Wilson if he attended the recent rally in Moscow. Witness how much easier it is to proof text a lot whining and kicking and screaming from the comfort of one’s bunker.
William said: “While I disagree with the protesters’ premise that it’s their constitutional right to put their neighbors in danger…”
And I disagree with your premise that it is the constitutional right of the authorities to put everyone in danger by releasing convicted felons from prison.
Two can play that game, William.
You’ll get no argument from me in that regard. Game, set, match.
But I never said anything about releasing convicted felons did I?Try to keep up. You’re not helping your side. Please, someone help him.
William: “But I never said anything about releasing convicted felons did I?”
You’re beginning to get it. Now, can you add two and two together?
William,
I prefer to address the issue rather than to stray into ad hominem.
Gray,
I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor to illicit a response from Douglas Wilson.
As to the ad hominem, make no mistake, Wilson is using his bully pulpit to encourage others to put their health and the health of their neighbors at risk, so why not ask him if he’s willing to do the same? He has a history of pugilistic pontification, I’m sure he can handle a spoonful of his own medicine.
Gray and William, I agree that pursuing legal avenues should ideally come before civil disobedience, which we have done. Unfortunately, there is a glut of cases, and the people who are best at this kind of thing are overwhelmed, and want to pick the most suitable cases. And I was not at the local protest because of a scheduling thing, but I will be speaking at the state-wide equivalent in Boise this Friday.
I hope you set an example and encourage your people to practice social distancing and to wear masks at your MAGA rally. That’s the least you could do.
Somewhere in cyberspace,…….
A state is missing its nanny.
😏
Get ’em William!
Pastor Wilson says, “I am a free market guy, not a pro-big-business guy. And that means that corporations that are in cozy with the government are what I call crapitalism, not capitalism.”
However, that does absolutely nothing to answer Tom’s question. Because under a “free market” as the American political right defines it, businesses are heavily incentivized to become big and they will get cozy with the government. I can’t recall ever seeing instruction on how to keep “capitalism” from becoming “crapitalism” when the candidates promoted by Pastor Wilson very much encourage that exact cozy relationship.
Jonathan, I think that if the goal is to maintain a free market, then the one entity that must be under the most stringent control is government. It is government as patron that either penalizes (by taxation and regulatory frameworks) or incentivizes (relieving the aforementioned, etc) in the coziness. Whether as a single citizen, or a group of them (forming a business entity), it is important to keep in view that the authors of our contract with government (The Constitution) saw fit to place limitations fundamentally and squarely upon the entity (government) most apt usurp liberty. “…in questions of power… Read more »
Gray,
The most apt to usurp liberty is the most powerful. Historically, that has always been governments, but today, I would argue Big Tech and the leftists that control them are a bigger threat, and the only fighter on the block big enough to compete is the government.
BJ, I think that anyone who desires to create their own tech platform (such as a “Truetube” for example) is free to use their own capital to do so. “Big Tech” is only as big as those who purchase their product. (The graft that they and .gov cooperate in is another subject.) We have the liberty to use (or not) and business entity we see fit to use. It is either not-intellectually consistent or naivete to think that when you fill your car with gasoline that you are somehow disconnected with everything included in that market dynamic. That is like… Read more »
Gray,
When one monopolizes a market and uses it’s billions to use government and other coercive pressure to box out competition, your free market ceases to exist.
The assertion that businesses and corporations are only as powerful as the customers allow them is the naive position. It sounds good in econ 101, but the reality is far different.
BJ, It does not seem clear that you are responding to my argument. My first point is, if you do not like a certain product, you are under no obligation to buy it. That so many purchase any product is prima facie evidence that they like the product sufficient to purchase and use it. People always do what they want, even in the face of competing “wants”. It might not be their ideal choice, but they do choose. My second point is that if a customer is dissatisfied with the product, he has multiple choices: 1. Abstain. 3. Buy something… Read more »
Gray, If tech generally speaking is we are talking about, abstain is really no longer an option for most people. As someone who predates what we nowadays mean by tech I can tell you, we all got it shoved to us whether we wanted it or not, and we’re way down the road from most people being able to entirely opt out. In fact, that is part of the tyranny of tech. Neither, and I think you know this, is invent your own a practical answer for the vast majority, in fact it is a rather glib answer. That leaves… Read more »
John M., I think that the significant issue (if not the majority) of the complaint about “Big Tech” is regarding what are called social media and/or video platforms. Regardless of the ubiquity and popularity of the genre, it does not make them mandatory or necessary. (In terms of “tech”, I used dial phones with party-lines, and started in the punch-card and tape drive computer era. To quote Matthew Quigley: I said I didn’t have much use for one. Didn’t say I didn’t know how to use it:) Tech in terms of businessware is usually not the genre that seems to… Read more »
When it comes to strictly leisure/social/gossip platforms I pretty much agree, you can abstain. However, I do note these platforms are used in some circles for other than purely entertainment, where one might feel compelled to participate for practical reasons. If we use a broader definition of platform, and mostly we do, then usage starts to become more than a frivolous luxury, of course that being the case for some people more than for others. With regards to tech in terms of businessware, and this may be beside the point you’re talking about here, but note your own comment above:… Read more »
JohnM…I’m a John M. too and I want to co-opt your term “radically self-marginalize”. My personal example is Facebook. I joined and then opted out 10 years ago…I found myself using it and judging others in ways that were not consistent with who I want to be. In the COVID era, I’ve been tempted to join because my church and my recovery ministry use it pretty exclusively. When I’ve told people from both groups that I refuse to join…they are surprised, then cajoling, then reluctantly supportive. I’m certain I’m missing some things…but not too much. Gray’s comment about choice reminded… Read more »
JohnM,
I looked in the encyclopedia for “Radical Self-Marginalization” and it had a picture of me sipping an 18 year old single malt just after cleaning a rifle. ;>)
And to think I said it like it was a bad thing! :-)
Gray wrote:
I agree with Gray that these options are what a free market should look like, but a big barrier that I didn’t see mentioned is regulatory hurdles, and things like patent minefields (i.e. litigation risks). These barriers sometimes can’t be avoided or routed around, no matter how motivated or industrious we are in our attempts to create alternatives.
Katecho, Arguendo, the process might be difficult, but a free market takes that into account by the element of choice, and abstention is a choice. It is not regarding the palatability of the choices, just that they are available. Even failure to make a decision is a decision. In an ideal free market the regulatory framework would be by the least intrusive method and based upon equity law. Maybe a better term would be a “free-er” market, addressing it as a sliding scale based upon the extent of liberty possessed by the participating parties as opposed by the amount of… Read more »
There are also problems with these companies letting people build big business platforms on them (in which Youtube, FB, Twitter, etc. also profit) then suddenly deplatforming them for posting things that aren’t PC and leftist-approved. It’s not as simple as saying “you conservatives think private business can do what they want so that’s what they’re doing” (side note: libs never say about businesses that won’t serve the LGBTQ crowd). There are intellectual property and other issues involved. Also, have you noticed when you search Google they often display some popular search result…without you having to go the site? That hurts… Read more »
Case in point, Google wants the legal immunity of being regarded as a content public utility, but they want the editorial control of being considered a private publisher. Something will have to give. They can’t have their cake and eat it too.
I think part of the failure in the actual outworkings of such a theory is that it views business and government as distinct “entities”, when it reality it is no such thing. At this very moment, for instance, we have a president who is also head of a large business empire. Many of the people he hires come from other business empires, when they leave they go back to business empires. Both his campaign and the campaigns of his colleagues are funded by business empires. And it is worth noting that the amount of money these empires are giving his… Read more »
Jonathan, It seems that you are accusing the current President of violating the law (“…we have a president who is also head of a large business empire”). That accusation is one that is best made by you in a court of law with sufficient evidence to prove your case. Absent that you entertain the risk of making false accusations. After this you say that “…the people he hires come from other business empires, when they leave they go back to business empires.” as if there is something sinful in such behavior. You continue in that vein with a number of… Read more »
What potential false accusation do you believe I made? I thought everything I said was public information. President Trump never divested himself of his business empire, and the fact that both American government money and foreign government money is going directly into that empire during his presidency is open, published public knowledge disclosed by his own public records. And no, I didn’t say there was something “sinful” about the revolving door between business and government. But if you can’t see how that revolving door intimately ties the two entities together and keeps them from being independently functioning enterprises then I… Read more »
Jonathan, I think that you have moved the goalpost. Saying “we have a president who is also head of a large business empire” is different than “President Trump never divested himself of his business empire”. A divestment is the opposite of an investment. Divestment is not synonymous with relinquishing control, which IS something that he has done, and announced publicly in January 2017. President Trump relinquished control of his companies to sons Eric and Donald Jr., along with Chief Financial Officer Allen Weisselberg. If you are suggesting that people who assume an elected position are somehow ethically required to strip… Read more »
I think John Calvin once said:
“Man’s nature, so to speak is a perpetual forge of goal posts.”
Or maybe that was me, re: left leaning, hyper critical blog commenters? 😏 (not named Gray)
My goodness, the irony. Read through the exchange again.
Goal posts of irony,
and still,
Feet of clay.
😏
daddy-o pot calling the kettle black.
Or, as Calvin said to Servetus, “If ya can’t stand the heat, get the hell out of kitchen.”
Or, as God said:
Losing your temper is foolish; ignoring an insult is smart.
; – )
You seem to have trouble reading what I actually am saying and responding to it. It’s laughable to think that President Trump hasn’t retained any say in the moves his businesses make, but it’s also completely irrelevant to the point and in no way related to anything I said. I didn’t say a word about Trump’s business moves, I spoke on the effects that his GOVERNMENT moves have on his business’s profits. It’s okay if you believe that is ethical. If you are fine with the deeply intertwined nature of our government bodies and our corporate bodies, then you’re coming… Read more »
Gray, talk about “moving the goal post”? You are naive to think that Trump has relinquished control. Unlike recent presidents before him, he is unwilling to divest his holdings or place them in a blind trust. Instead he placed his in a revocable trust and named DT, Jr. and Allen Weisselberg, the Trump Organizations CFO as trustees. You think he doesn’t speak to them on a regular basis? Dispense with the gobbledygook posing as justifications for a crooked, deceitful buffoon holding our country’s highest elected position. At least his taxpayer funded trips to Mar-a-Lago have been temporarily curtailed by the… Read more »
So far as greed goes, I’ll believe it when I see it. In my life in the church greed is the sin by and large that pastors and churches sweep under the rug and pretend doesn’t exist. On other sins we can easily distinguish between what is illegal and what is sinful, and with issues such as lust or sexual sin we have many hard-and-fast rules in our churches as to what is not within the bounds of Christian behavior. But so far as greed goes, we’ve basically gotten to the point, “if it is legal than it is allowable,… Read more »
Jonathan,
I would respectfully ask you: why do you think that any individual is better equipped to deal with their own personal property than someone else observing them? To expand upon that, what standard of measure does one use to dissect the line between personal envy and someone else’s “greed”?
You believe we as a church body can speak on the propriety of someone’s personal relationships, but not whether or not they are obeying God’s commands with regards to their personal property? So Paul’s directives to Timothy on the qualifications for an overseer, do you believe that Paul was not intending those qualifications to be taken into consideration? Because Pastor Wilson has certainly treated them as qualifications that the Church is supposed to take into consideration when making one an elder. You’re suggesting that we should follow society and ignore the financial qualifications because it’s popular to do so nowadays,… Read more »
“On other sins we can easily distinguish between what is illegal and what is sinful, and with issues such as lust or sexual sin we have many hard-and-fast rules in our churches as to what is not within the bounds of Christian behavior.” We do? Is that why conservative churches and organizations are having conferences to “wrestler” with tough questions like “Can two SSA men live together and cuddle and hold hands as long as they don’t cross certain boundaries”? And it’s impossible to take this seriously from someone whose definition of sin matches up almost perfectly with the SJW… Read more »
You are bearing false witness about me, again, and you’ve been called out for those lies before and are never able to respond with evidence. If you have a complaint to make about any position I have, make it when I ACTUALLY make that position. Instead you bear false witness about me to try to score points in an internet argument. Every word you speak goes before God our Father, and I am putting my integrity and truth of speech before God on that. You really need to examine your heart and ask whether your feelings about me are overriding… Read more »
I don’t agree that free markets of necessity turn corporatist, but you are absolutely correct that this is a real phenomenon and one Christians who support capitalism (including me) must be willing to admit is real and is a problem.
Jonathan wrote: I can’t recall ever seeing instruction on how to keep “capitalism” from becoming “crapitalism” when the candidates promoted by Pastor Wilson very much encourage that exact cozy relationship. Jonathan returns to his agenda of distorting Wilson. Wilson may have rationalized a vote for Trump in 2020, but it was all done with heavy qualifications, in the lesser-of-two-evils vein; quite distinct from an endorsement of Trump in isolation from the overall cancer that is American politics. I’m not persuaded by Wilson’s reasoning in regard to such a vote, but it’s still plain to see that Wilson’s position is one… Read more »
You could simply look at the discussion already above you to see that no, arguing for “limited government” does not prevent crapitalism for the exact reasons already expressed by BJ and myself. If you believe it does, I look forward to you giving me your ideal example of a limited government which resulted in a free market for any meaningful length of time. And if you actually read what I have to say here as often as you talked about me , you’d realize that I despise what you call “fiat money” and believe the entire existence of an economy… Read more »
Jonathan wrote: I believe a far better approach would have been to just distribute a living stipend to the American people for the duration and allow the American people to make the decisions of who to support. Perhaps “better” only in a short-sighted, relativistic sense, but this is why we can’t take Jonathan seriously when he objects that he isn’t for an expanded State. Hard to imagine how a living stipend doesn’t register as an expanded State in Jonathan’s mind. It’s nice to see that Jonathan objects to cronyism and moral hazards at the upper income end of the scale,… Read more »
A living stipend to American citizens for the duration of a pandemic gives far less power to the government and is far less likely to lead to Wilson’s “crapitalism” than the mess of a package that was passed. I am arguing for a smaller government than that which actually exists, smaller than BOTH of the parties in power wish for. You seem to take anything I say that doesn’t fit your extremist position and then say I’m arguing for big government. You’ve been saying for years that the government is going to default on its debt, that’s quite an irrelevant… Read more »
Jonathan wrote: You’ve been saying for years that the government is going to default on its debt, that’s quite an irrelevant factor to hinge your argument on because you fully believe that will happen with or without any particular response to this pandemic. If the Statist mass transit train is hurtling toward the brick debt-wall at 80mph with just the bankers and CEOs on board, that’s one thing, but Jonathan seems to want to get the train up to 100mph, and load all the women and children on board too. The issue is the level of new dependency that we… Read more »
You are suggesting that if the government and economy fail, then the average woman and child would be better off if they were already in the hole because they hadn’t received any help during the coronavirus pandemic. That’s the sort of reasoning that only makes sense in ideological internet arguments, not reality.
Jonathan wrote: If I remember correctly you are also against tax rates above 10%, which suggests to me that you don’t see a way forward to avoid said default anyway. As the saying goes: When you owe the bank $24,000, you have a problem. When you owe the bank $24 trillion, the bank has a problem.” Set aside the 10% tax rate. When every taxpayer in America owns a $200,000 share of the national debt, it’s pretty safe to conclude that he won’t be paying off that share in his lifetime, or in that of his working children and grandchildren.… Read more »
Let’s just remember, for a moment, that the national debt you speak of is only about 20% of the nation’s $107,000,000,000,000 in assets. Excess wealth alone could pay it off without impacting anyone’s standard of living. There is no inability to pay, but merely a lack of desire to pay by the people who control the capital. What do I see as the endgame? We will constantly increase both assets and debts, as is always the direction in a system based on loans at interest. We will constantly complain about the need to grow the economy and continue to be… Read more »
Jonathan wrote: Let’s just remember, for a moment, that the national debt you speak of is only about 20% of the nation’s $107,000,000,000,000 in assets. Sorry, that figure does not represent liquid assets, available for use to pay down debts. That figure includes people’s homes, vehicles, and all kinds of capital equipment needed for continued operations. That figure also includes paper value of stocks and real estate, which are in a value bubble right now. If you tried to flood the market with them, in any significant portion, their value would immediately collapse to a fraction that is more realistic.… Read more »
You are using vague claims to cast doubt on the most obvious truths. No one spoke of flooding the market and you aren’t using any actual figures at all to support your claims. I’m not going any further down this random and pointless rabbit hole except just to add some mathematical reality. Over 40% of that $107 trillion is owned by the top 1% and 80% by the top 20%, so it is very easy to talk about paying off 20% of the total over time without dipping into people’s own personal homes and cars. Approximately 13% of the average… Read more »
Jonathan wrote: Over 40% of that $107 trillion is owned by the top 1% and 80% by the top 20%, so it is very easy to talk about paying off 20% of the total over time without dipping into people’s own personal homes and cars. Approximately 13% of the average millionaire’s wealth is liquid, so a huge portion of the debt could be paid down without resulting in the fear-collapse you suggest. Finally we discover Jonathan’s storehouse. Jonathan has eyes on his neighbors’ wealth. Indeed, it is “very easy to talk about” paying off the debt, if one simply assumes… Read more »
You’ve reach the levels of caricature. How can you pay off the debt without the money? We’re supposed to discuss the responsibility of the nation to pay off its debt, but not discuss where the money to do that will come from? Or somehow ignore where the money is? You already suggested that we can’t dip into people’s homes and cars and physical assets in order to pay the debt, which I certainly agree with. And the total assets of the poor are pitiful and would do nothing to pay it. You don’t want to default on the debt. So… Read more »
Jonathan wrote: Please, give me actual numbers on where you are getting the money to pay off the debt. My argument was that we aren’t getting the money to pay off the debt. My stated position is that our government is headed for a default, likely in the form of hyperinflation, but it could also be combined with pension bail-ins, etc. If there is an attempt to enforce a claim on the people’s labor to pay back the debt with oppressive taxes, the debt will likely be repudiated by the people. Because these tens of trillions of dollars were invoked… Read more »
Jonathan wrote:
Since the national debt has been ballooning by well over a trillion dollars every year, consistently since the GW Bush years, then any liquidation of assets that would hope to just keep up with additional debt and obligations (let alone pay it down) would probably have to approach two trillion. Does Jonathan consider that a mere trickle?
You’re still doing exactly what I said – attacking me with crazy red herrings that have nothing to do with the topic and failing to offer any solutions of your own. Actually, it looks like the debt only increased by $3.5 trillion over Obama’s last 4 budgets, or about $875 billion/year. And I think we could pare down discretionary spending by at least $300-400 billion on defense cuts of programs that have nothing whatsoever to do with our actual defense, so we’re down to $500 billion or so being enough. As I pointed out before, that is easily within the… Read more »
I certainly don’t grant Jonathan’s pathetic attempt to minimize the leap from $9 trillion to $25 trillion in just 13 years. He just comes across as a shill for the Obama administration. But even if we grant his carefully constructed figure of half-a-trillion, for the sake of argument, is Jonathan still trying to suggest that half-a-trillion, per year, would not constitute a flood?
And don’t forget that his goal was to pay off the debt, not just maintain it at the current level.
Jonathan wrote: As I said before, if all our piles of stored wealth weren’t meant for a time like this, than what were we building all the barns for anyway? What barns? Piles of what, exactly? What stored wealth is Jonathan referring to? I see a lot of paper wealth in bubble stock markets, but these are inflated with debt-based buybacks and Fed purchases. The value of those paper asset bubbles would pop if anyone started to sell them in an attempt to convert them to actual wealth, because there is no one left to buy them at the artificially… Read more »
Neither the government nor small businesses used the actual wealth because a small group of wealthy private individuals have hoarded it in an ongoing movement (accelerated during the last 40 years) to concentrate American assets among the wealthiest individuals and oppose taxation of said individuals at every turn. That has been just as true in California as everywhere else.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-economy-american-wealth-richest-one-percent-two-fifths-edward-n-woolf-paper-a8096461.html
This isn’t an answer to my question. Where is this wealth stored? In the stock market bubble? In the real estate bubble? How many are in this “small group” of wealthy private individuals? How much total wealth do they actually have (even on paper, let alone what could actually be made liquid)? How much of what they own is actually just someone else’s debt?
Maybe half business assets, the rest largely stocks as well as funds, bonds, real estate, and cash. But you delving deeper and deeper into your pet theorizing in order to create red herrings further and further from the actual topic of conversation.
Jonathan wrote:
For those still following the thread, please note how Jonathan’s “small group” has suddenly turned into at least 20% of the entire population.
Absolutely false. Me quoting a statistic to counter a claim you made about homes and cars has nothing to do with that statement. Notice that I quoted one statistic about 1% and a different statistic about 20%, you chose to falsely suggest that the “small group” I was referring to was the 20% and not the obvious 1%. The only point of quoting the 20% owning 80% was to point out that the large majority of American wealth is clearly not held up in people’s personal car and home ownership.
Jonathan wrote: … you chose to falsely suggest that the “small group” I was referring to was the 20% and not the obvious 1%. I don’t see how Jonathan escapes the trap he set for himself. How is the 1% cut off so obvious? How can the 1% be categorically guilty of “hoarding” the wealth, but, just below that, all the rest of the top 20% are pure and innocent of any hoarding? All of the 2%ers just let out a big sigh of relief, I guess. Talk about a mysterious jurisprudence. Jonathan’s scalpel of condemnation cuts so cleanly along… Read more »
“I don’t see how Jonathan escapes the trap he set for himself. ”
I do!
Jonathan “escapes” by goal post moving, and then denial of goal post moving!😏
The only thing I don’t get is the “why”?
Still, it is somehow, morbidly fascinating.
Like watching Jim Acosta, take himself seriously!
😏😄☺😅😂
adad, have you ever brought your frequent mocking of me before God, asked him if it were holy or edifies the body?
Don’t worry J’, “Better is open rebuke than hidden love, Wounds from a friend can be trusted, but an enemy multiplies kisses.” You know J’, despite your denials, you do tend to move the goal posts a lot. You are analogous to the kid playing dodge ball, who refuses to concede he’s been hit, and is out. On the other hand you do seem to have been gifted with a fair amount of intellect, in my opinion, you could be using that gift a lot better than you seem to at times. One easy suggestion; brevity, is in fact the… Read more »
adad, do you view me as the enemy? That would explain much. And having someone misrepresent my comment and then pointing out they misrepresented it is not “moving the goalposts”. Trump is the head of a large business empire, which explicitly, openly profits off of many of his government decisions. That is EXACTLY what I said. You and Gray arbitrarily decided that since Trump claims he doesn’t currently control his empire, therefore I’m somehow wrong in my assertion. You are the ones who moved the goalposts to “does Trump currently control his business or not?”, which wasn’t part of my… Read more »
J’, since you seem to be claiming that i am “wounding” you, that would still make me a friend, in the context of Proverbs 27. That would not make you an enemy either. Backing out to first principles that guide our conduct, and this particular rabbit hole, I think any original (MINOR) point got lost a long time ago. Now it’s about means of expression, means of argument and tone, whether you can accept that or not. You seem to argue about secondary points, as a means to erode any particular position of our host. Then quite often someone else… Read more »
I think there’s a lack of self-awareness here. You seem to argue about secondary points, as a means to erode any particular position of our host. Except that my original comment was on the MAIN point of Tom’s letter. He asked Pastor Wilson about whether the government and the capitalists were not one and the same. And I went to the very root of why that is true in our system. How is that not the main point? What secondary point are you even claiming I diverted to? Instead of discussing that main point, Gray tried to divert to the… Read more »
Katecho, there are no internet points, you don’t get ahead in life by making these ridiculous arguments. Note how improbable it is that even ONE person has been edified in Christ by anything you’ve said in this conversation, because not once in the conversation have you pointed towards Christ or even offered your own solution for the worldly problems we discuss. You’re solely here to attack me with more and more ridiculous arguments. I “draw the line at 1%” because it’s the most easily quotable statistic. I don’t know where to find the statistics for 1.1% or 2%. As I… Read more »
Jonathan, I really appreciate you taking the time to come here and try to express a different (and in many/most cases more valid) point of view, and to push back on some of the worst arguments. You provide a much needed voice here, and when I still stop in to read I appreciate your effort. I would encourage you to not be drawn into the game of calling people to repentance. It isn’t the forum and it isn’t going to help. Some will scoff and malign and some will reflexively defend Pr. Wilson no matter how absurd, but it is… Read more »
Thank you for the kind words Demo. You may well be right (you usually are), but I am quite frustrated with how often deep questions of Christian obedience get replaced with personal attacks on myself and my character. Above JP Stewart goes so far as to claim that I am not a follower of God, and not a single person calls him out on it. To me this is greater than merely “who wants to win an internet argument”, there are real questions of faith in action at stake here and people will make decisions affected in part by what… Read more »
Jonathan wrote:
Jonathan claimed there was a storehouse of wealth held by a “small group” of “hoarders”. That is an accusation of sin against an entire group that we now learn is completely arbitrarily chosen simply because “it’s the most easily quotable statistic”. The 2%ers and the 3%ers rejoice. You can’t make this stuff up.
Like I said, I don’t have a clue what you think these games accomplish. Anyone can look back on my comments and see that I did not do what you claim I did. Apparently you can make this stuff up.
We are all still waiting for you to make your own argument instead making silly attacks at the remote edges of mine.
The instruction to stop crapitalism is that capitalism is not a virtue. The cure for big buisiness enslaving the market for their own greed is the gospel not the government.
Pastor Wilson, you said you can imagine “doing it like Sweden,” but are you familiar with the actual situation in Sweden? * First off, Sweden was starting from a position of having one of the lowest population densities in Europe, roughly on par with Vermont or Arizona here. On top of that, over half of Sweden’s households are single-person. And around 20% of Swedes already worked from home often before the outbreak began (the government has ensured that high-speed internet lines are run to every single home). So the average Swede is already “social distancing” more than many Americans would… Read more »
I wonder what the numbers would be like if we had national repentance instead of national lockdown. I bet the numbers would be FAR smaller.
Corey,
If you mean repentance from defying state and local governments’ stay at home and social distancing orders, then yes the numbers would be better and would continue to improve.
https://nypost.com/2020/04/29/who-lauds-sweden-as-model-for-resisting-coronavirus-lockdown/
Take with grain of salt, because WHO also “lauded” China’s approach to shutdowns just a few weeks ago. But Wilson is not alone in his view of Sweden’s approach. Does Jonathan disagree with WHO’s latest assessment of Sweden?
Wow, I know you rarely read what I wrote before responding to it, but you made it obvious for everyone this time. Did you not see where I suggested that Sweden’s model could be one that states like Idaho and Montana could have implemented?
I didn’t disagree with Pastor Wilson’s lauding of Sweden at all. I simply described what Sweden actually did and what the actual results were, then pointed out that it was a model appropriate only to its context.
And just so Katecho and the NY Post don’t combine to distort Dr. Michael Ryan’s message, he was lauding Sweden for the hard steps they had taken to control the virus (which to be clear involved closing all high schools and colleges, banning gatherings of over 50 people, having a large numbers of workers sent to work from home or furloughed altogether, instructing citizens to adopt strict social distancing practices, instructing citizens to stop unnecessary travel, and banning visits to nursing homes, along with a lot of support for hospitals and the elderly). It worked as much as it did… Read more »
Katecho quotes a NYC tabloid taking half-sentence phrases out of context from the WHO speech: 2 upvotes
I quote the full three-paragraph section of the speech to show what he actually said: 2 downvotes
That’s pretty much the preferred level of discourse here. And later y’all will pretend that you think the media lies and you don’t trust them.
Why is it okay for Micheal Ryan to laud Sweden, but not Doug Wilson?
Who said it was not? Did you read my comment at all? I didn’t disagree with Pastor Wilson’s lauding of Sweden at all. I simply described what Sweden actually did and what the actual results were, then pointed out that it was a model appropriate only to its context. And in last week’s letters I straight said that Idaho didn’t necessarily need a full lockdown and a model closer to Sweden’s might have been more appropriate. My only issue is that people have taken to name-dropping Sweden without providing context to what they did and what the results were. The… Read more »
Pastor Wilson, a week or so ago you claimed: The Democrats need a COVID warrior on the ticket, and Biden has already promised to pick a woman veep. Since the governor of Michigan may well be the most detested politician in America, I think we can rule her out. This statement struck me as odd at the time but I figured you just watch more news than me and knew something I didn’t, with a bit of exaggeration thrown in. Then I saw the poll results today showing 53% of Michigan residents trust Governor Whitmer most to handle the coronavirus… Read more »
Technically, a politician can have really strong polling numbers and still be a contender for the most detested in America. Hillary Clinton being the perfect example.
But, true to his m.o., Jonathan would rather assume that Wilson is being deceived.
Why would you talk about “technically” when you know a statement is false? Do you believe that Whitman is more detested than McConnell? Pelosi? Trump? Hillary?
If you defend a false statement over an accurate one solely due to your feelings about the people making the statements, you’re probably making a mistake.
Neither my point, nor Wilson’s point, rested on a strict claim that Whitmer actually holds the exclusive title of the #1 most despised politician in America. Wilson simply offered that she “may well be”, given her recent overreaches. Rather my point rested on the logical fact that a politician can have great polling numbers, and still be the most despised politician in America. This is because those two conditions aren’t mutually exclusive. This means that Jonathan’s citation of Whitmer’s favorable polling numbers is a hopeless red herring. Jonathan is left with no logical basis to suggest that Wilson has been… Read more »
I’m at a loss to understand what you think these games accomplish.
Wilson’s not deceived. The duper knows exactly what he’s doing. You on the other hand fall into the other category.
One wonders if Bill understands that he is “agreeing” with Katecho?
Not to worry, Jonathan might be able to explain it to Bill in just a few really long blog comments! 👍 😏
“Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.”
In regard to panic, are you suggesting that repentance will diminish panic the next time God acts in a physically destructive way?
Really appreciate Doug speaking out on the coronapanic. It has definitely exposed our false idols.
Here are my thoughts: https://stirfrylaura.wordpress.com/2020/05/01/letter-to-the-editor/
I quite agree with your thoughts on the false idol of “safetyism”, and no doubt that has come to play in this crisis, though exactly what is safetyism and what is prudent would take serious conversation to work out. Of course, it is certainly not a new problem.
I think the greatest test case for whether it has become an idol – when is the idol of “my personal safety” used to trump the actual directives of God?
Also sad that you have to have pre-recorded church services. It is probably difficult to do in the moment for those who are not savvy to those sorts of things, but you can use zoom to hold fully interactive, real-time church services with both full-group and small-group community incorporated into the same session.
//1. Love your neighbor by wearing a mask in public. It shows your care for their health, keeps the peace, and maybe even avoids causing a weaker brother to stumble. 2. Love your neighbor by not wearing a mask in public. Anything that promotes the societal delusion that we are in such a level of danger as to warrant full quarantine is prolonging the economic ruin of that neighbor. // Masks are a good idea. They reduce the spread of this and other similar diseases. I don’t see any rationale not to wear them. They don’t do any harm. In… Read more »
Unless…the assumptions about rate of growth under varying conditions were wrong. What if not having subways (etc.) causes the growth curve to look entirely different? I’m not saying the assumptions were wrong. I don’t know either way and am not close to being qualified to judge. But I think the issue here is with assuming that the initial assumptions we were working with are correct. Do we really know that? Also, there are things that bend the curve other than shutdowns. Masks, maybe. Distancing, for sure. Complete isolation of the ill, for sure. Less extreme degrees of shutdown, probably. So… Read more »