Epistolary COVID Stuff
Hi Pastor Doug (great name, btw)
I agree with your post about Trump’s declaration that he made last Friday if it were an executive order outside the bounds of his jurisdiction. What he did was counter the error of the governors (like you said), but he didn’t do so of his own ideas but rather in defending the first amendment. The tenth amendment protects the states but also allows the federal leaders to protect the states against rogue governors. That is what I see Trump doing: using his executive power to override rogue governors in protection against the first amendment (and assuring more votes of course:)).
This is exactly why Lincoln worked so hard to make the 13th amendment. That would then justify his overreach with the states because he could then claim he was defending a federal constitutional amendment, which by the 10th, is within his jurisdiction to do so.
I have greatly appreciated your posts through all of this craziness. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on my limited understanding of these things.
Thank you and God bless!
Doug
Doug, thanks for the feedback. I don’t have a problem in principle with a federal check on abusive state power. I do have a problem with it being done through decree. It would have been sufficient, I think, if the president had simply said that the governors were out of line, and that he supported those resisting.
Re Sumo Wrestling post: Speaking as an attorney involved in litigation against an unnamed American governor who has imposed unconstitutional restrictions on corporate worship, the irony in all this is enough to choke on. Democrats have taken to notions of federalism and restraints on executive power like an inmate up for parole conveniently finds jailhouse religion in the months leading up to his review. I propose a simple experiment: Go to the liberal pundits decrying Trump’s lack of constitutional authority to enforce the First Amendment against governors and ask these learned persons if Eisenhower had the authority to nationalize the Arkansas National Guard to enforce the Fourteenth Amendment to compel racial integration at Little Rock Central High in 1957.
Joe
Joe, right. The silence would be deafening. But the irony argument cuts the other way also. I don’t want to be among those conservatives who think that Eisenhower was out of his lane, but who then applaud Trump in this.
So my wife is an avid runner and often she will go to the gov’t school to run on the outdoor track as we live in a farming community and during this time, the amount of semis and farm equipment on our road can make her feel unsafe (she does 10-16 miles). We home school but do pay our property taxes and utilize the gov’t school speech therapist for my son born in China with a cleft pallet/lip so we have some connection there.
This past week my wife finished her run and was leaving the parking lot when the principal came out and explained to her she could not run on the track per the governor’s orders for her health and safety. She was kind and pushed back slightly and the principal explained that she understands the track gets used and maybe she should camp out for the evening to stop everyone. My wife asked if she could run around the parking lot and the principal said, “maybe, but you could be trespassing there as well”. My wife left and told me what happened, we discussed and I asked her if she would like me to call the principal understanding that she could just go after hours or on weekends (bc I believe this is unlawful) but if I call, it will push it to an agenda. My wife said I should call and she’s ready for the pushback from the school.
I called and spoke with the principal and she explained again the Governor’s orders, etc. and I stated that it’s possible his orders could be ignored by using discernment bc they aren’t necessary for a woman running by herself for an hour outdoors at a “public” school. She advised that she knows this happens and my wife just happened to be the one she saw and she should possibly padlock the track to stop the “problem”.
I asked her if looking at it from a long range view, her response of “elementary school principal padlocks mother out of track for health and safety” is a measured response, I did tell her I’m not into cancel culture, just wanting her to look at it objectively. I got the company line and was directed to her superintendent, to which I left a message and have not received a call back.
Yesterday, I saw two men who are hired from a local landscaping business mowing inside the track, no masks, no social distancing, they mowed, they chatted, they acted like free men enjoying their outdoor job in a free country . . . three cheers!
My question finally, do I push the agenda and point out how illogical this entire issue is at a school board meeting . . . Or, do I leave it alone because In a week the gods in the Governor’s office say she can run again? I’m trying to work through this the best way I can. Thanks and thanks for reading all the way through.
JP
JP, I wouldn’t do anything for the sake of the running. Like you say, you are likely to be able to return to the track soon enough. But if you want to do something in order to make a point (that desperately needs making), and if you have the time, I would certainly do so.
First, I am responding to “All divvied up.”
You wrote, “In our system of government, both the federal and state level have embodied in their most authoritative documents the fact that the people are the foundation of all political authority.”
However, just because this is asserted in our founding documents does not make people the foundation of all political authority. We must go to God for that answer. And that answer is never found in Scripture. The only times any follower of God disobeys (or disregards) the laws of the government it is because the government’s laws contradict an explicit command to preach the gospel, pray to God, bow down to God, etc.
Our government got it wrong. We are not the foundation for government. Our nation was untimely born out of the idolatry individual freedom and that idolatry has matured, infiltrated the church, and has been giving birth to death at least since 1775.
In your article, “Breaking the Law and Cases of Conscience” you ask, “Does our system of law recognize the possibility of rulers who try to seize more power than they have any right to possess?”
From what I’ve seen, governors do have plans to roll out churches meeting inside and outside. The plan is to open. People’s rights aren’t being taken away, period. They are being given back — just not as fast as people want. And they have to deal with it by submitting to the government and not making their governor’s work a headache (Romans 13, I Peter 2, and Hebrews 13:7 – even though this last one is chiefly spiritual leaders I think it’s good advice for secular ones as well).
There is no command to meet in church buildings. No command not to go more than 10 weeks without meeting inside a church building. If churches cannot meet as they have in the past right now, then we can go back to the way it was with house churches before. Or be innovative in some other way. The governors aren’t saying we cannot meet, period. It’s for now during this time.
In your article on “Masks” you said, “If this were an experiment conducted by our elites, in which they tried to see how much it would take to get us all to start singing that old Twisted Sister hit, “We’re Not Going to Take It”. . . ” I know you used the word “If” carefully, but I sense that you don’t agree with my last sentence of my last paragraph on the grounds that “the elites” are seeing how much power they can take from the people. I just can’t buy that. There is no structure or space for “the elites” to be “in on something” right now. Mohler explains it well in his Briefing on May 19th. It is highly improbably that they are keeping churches limited to their great hurt for some kind of “power hunger” in them.
I think you might be gutting Romans 13 of its teeth (pardon my mixing metaphors). It was written under the government that killed the author of Romans 13 and the author of I Peter 2. It was the government that killed God. If we’re called to submit to that kind of government, then I’m pretty sure we can find a way not to “neglect to meet together” (Hebrews 10) while we wait on governors. And if we are waiting on governors forever (which I do not for a moment believe) then we continue not to neglect to meet together.
Although I happen to differ with you on these points, many thanks for your ministry to the church. I appreciate your wit, clear analogies, and help in understanding how to love my son (Father Hunger).
Mike
Mike, there is a lot here to respond to, and so I am just going to pick up on a couple points. In the Old Testament, the people were the ground of authority. The people made David king at Hebron. The people, under Jehoida’s leadership, removed Athalia from her position as queen. So first, there is a basis in God’s law for including the people in the “power structure” of a nation. And that is what we in the Western tradition have done. So a governor of Idaho, elected by the people, is not the same position as a Roman governor, appointed by the emperor. According to our “established authorities,” our constitutional documents, the people have a say.
Re: “Not Very Much Feck At All”
Yet you support a liar of liars, Donald Trump. You flaming HYPOCRITE.
Marc
Marc, what gave you the idea that I supported Donald Trump’s lies?
Great article. I myself have noticed a similar principle at work with social distancing, required masks, business shutdowns, and sheltering at home. There’s a huge disconnect between how all the important people (media, corporate e-mails, government officials, etc) talk about them and how they actually “work” in real life. Is this little cloth mask really screening out microscopic viruses? Considering how many people in this store are standing and walking within 6 feet of each other- as indeed they must- does shutting down every other register actually promote social distancing? Or does it make for more people in the store because we have to wait twice as long? If Home Depot, Lowes, Wal-Mart, Giant (grocery), and Target can be open without risking people’s lives, why not the little guys deemed “non-essential” who sell the same things? Come to think of it, does social distancing even work? It’s all about the image. It’s all fake. I can hardly stand it. I hope I’m not like that.
Nathan
Nathan, yes. It is like security at the airports. We don’t have security there, we have security theater. This health scare is not prevention, it is prevention theater. Anyone who has marveled at a person driving along alone in his own car with a mask on knows this.
Not Very Much Feck At All was like a breath of fresh air. Or, even more so, like a taste of No Quarter November! Hard times call for hard measures. On a related note, for me, the Panic of 2020 has been not so much revealing but confirming. I’m sure there are some that have come out of the closet, but for the most part the not entirely feckless public figures–political and religious–have been acting as expected. As has President Trump. He never claimed to be a small government conservative, so it is no surprise to see him embrace Big Government solutions to the Panic. The refreshing thing is Trump is pretty much acting as advertised, whereas our not-so-full-of-feck leaders are acting as a careful observer might expect, but not as they advertise (at least in their press clippings). So while I do not like much about how Trump has responded to the Panic, I don’t feel betrayed and nothing he has done has changed my mind about voting for him (for the first time) in 2020. How about you?
Bill
Bill, same here. Trump has been a wild card disruption agent, and has disrupted far more on the left than he has on the right. In the post-Trump era, when liberals and conservatives are sorting through the rubble, trying to find their stuff, the liberals are going to have a much harder time of it.
Male Idols
Last week on Canon Press’ All of Christ podcast there was a lecture by you called Male Idols: Indolence and Passivity. You spoke at length about vocation and men’s main idols. Two questions can I purchase a transcript of this? I would like that as well as the cd. Secondly, where can I read up on a theology of vocation?
Thanks
Jonathan
Jonathan, I don’t believe there are any transcripts available, but you can check with Canon Press. And on the theology of vocation, I highly recommend Gene Veith’s book, God at Work.
Vampires
Pr. Wilson,
In a dinner gathering the other day I mentioned that I recalled you, several years ago, blogging through Twilight (the vampire book, not the hour). There was an immediate and general interest among the assemblage in seeing the result . However, a search of the blog revealed that this was actually done on Credenda’s website, which appears to have gone the way of all flesh. Is there, perhaps, any other copy of this review floating around that could be posted for the edification and merriment of the interested?
Thanks!
James
James, I believe, as the saying goes, you’re in luck. That series of articles was turned into an ebook, which can be obtained here.
Man Rampant
You were interviewed by Jonah Goldberg?
Where/when will it be available?
Ron
Ron, actually I interviewed him for an episode of Man Rampant (season 2). It was a good show. The filming of season 2 has been completed now, and should begin appearing on Amazon Prime soon.
Grace Upon Grace
I am really enjoying your father’s autobiography. I was excited to hear it was in the works. When my wife gave it to me as a birthday present last week I was surprised at its length, thinking maybe it was about twice as long as it should be. Now that I’m about a hundred pages into it, I’m wishing it was twice as long as it is. I’m sure you have passed on a lot of thanks and appreciation. Please add mine to the mix. God’s hand is truly amazing.
Nathan
Nathan, thanks very much.
Um, Perhaps You Should Know . . .
I’m not sure I always grasp your sense of humour but thought I ought to alert you (if you don’t already know) to the fact that feck is a swear word in Ireland. British and Irish readers of your blog would be surprised at a minister using such language and it would cause offence. No minister would use such language unless you are talking about Father Ted (an amusing but not godly! sitcom about priests set in Ireland where the main characters use the word repeatedly and there were many complaints ).
Of course you may know this and be using the word for comic effect– in the blog post it makes more sense but as a headline it sounds like click bait.
Best wishes
Emma
Emma, thanks for the heads up, and I had no idea. I was working off the word feckless, in a way similar to what Wodehouse did once — if he was not disgruntled, he was far from being gruntled. The word feckless comes from the Scots applying their magic to the word effect. So feckless is a reduction from effectless, and I was making a joke out of that.
Thanks for the reply Pastor Doug. I do have the time and will be following up with the school board and state board with the hope of bringing some clear thinking to a messed up situation.
JP
Will do. It’s been a week and have not heard back from superintendent. State superintendent stated the school was following the Governor’s guidelines and would not comment on whether or not they were rational or logical. My state reps office reiterated the Governors guidelines and his rep would not comment on same. The man running for state rep against the incumbent said he understood my “feelings” but believed in the current situation safety is best. I did my best to tell him I do not act on my feelings and wanted to work through it logically based on what we… Read more »
Gotta love Mike “logic”: People’s rights aren’t being taken away, period. They are being given back!!!! Hey Mike, were you wearing a mask when you typed that? It goes over your nose and mouth, not over your eyes. Even first-graders know that in order to “give something back”, it must first be taken. To address the underlying assumption: Rights are not granted by government in the first place. Therefore, they are not government’s to take. So, Mike: What do you do when government breaks its own laws? Where does Romans 13 fit into that? By the way, you do realize… Read more »
Also Mike says: “There is no command to meet in church buildings. No command not to go more than 10 weeks without meeting inside a church building.” I really don’t understand how people (Mike is hardly the first I’ve seen) fail to understand that we’re not being forbidden to meet inside a church building — we’re being forbidden to meet AT ALL. No exception is being made for churches to meet in auditoriums or home groups. Zooming, etc., is better than nothing, but it is by definition not actually “meeting.” Peter is also the one who said “we must obey… Read more »
Does the government have any authority to suspend or curtail public gatherings, for prudential considerations?
If ‘prudential’ means care and forethought…I’d say that curfew laws, mandatory hurricane evacuations, and maximum occupancy codes are ways that the government curtails public gatherings…all are limited in some way (age, event, safe egress)…but I’d say as citizens we accept them. Treating every gun like it’s loaded VS treating every person like they have COVID is probably a bad analogy…but it’s where some of my frustration lies with churches and schools and sports. There was a short time with COVID that I didn’t know what type of gun I was dealing with, but now (and here’s where my analogy fails),… Read more »
Perhaps in extreme situations, for as short a time as possible. We’ve gone waaaaay past that in many situations where governors are just sitting there saying “you can open up when I SAY you can open up.”
Except it’s not for anyone on the outside, least of all government, to decide whether the church is fulfilling its mission “well enough” for the government to keep its hands out.
God is sovereign, but governments still have duties, one of which is to keep their hands off the church.
But the government doesn’t get to decide if there is a “leg to stand on” as a defense, they have to quit restricting the exercise of religion, period. And churches that are proclaiming the gospel are called to see that no part of scripture can rightly be used to tell them that they need to stop purely because the government says so. A given church doesn’t have to prove to your satisfaction that they are actually publicly proclaiming the gospel in order for everything I said to be true. It remains the case that any church that is publicly proclaiming… Read more »
Is the govt banning all gatherings? I would assume so, as this is the case on this side of the Pond. It seems to me too many Christians are complaining about this as though they were being targeted and no-one else, a form of persecution. But this applies to all other religions and groups as well, so it is not persecution and saying to makes them look foolish. The bleating of the right on this is getting more than a little irritating, especially in the UK, and especially amongst the readers of Peter Hitchens’ blog. The individual has become everything,… Read more »
In the US, there are abundant exceptions to the lockdown orders. All varying from state to state, of course. The numerous exception do indeed amount to treating different businesses and activities with special favor or disfavor. In many states, churches are one of the most disfavored groups. But the entire scheme of the lockdown is wrong from the setup. Instead of asking what restrictions are necessary, the governors asked themselves what freedom is essential. And many straightforwardly concluded religion was non-essential. If the lockdowns are taken at face value we have simply ceased to be a free society. Maybe we’ll… Read more »
The issue isn’t so much whether we’re being “specially persecuted,” it’s that the church should always be regarded as “specially privileged” to be free from interference by the government. I believe that is required by both scripture and the U.S. Constitution.
Government action with regard to the church can be wrong even if it isn’t persecution as such.
The church in the U.S. has never in our history been entirely free from any “interference” whatsoever by the government, and I really don’t see where that is required either by scripture or by the U.S. Constitution. There is a vast gulf between being forbidden to preach in Christ’s name and anything any of our governments are doing, in fact the two things are really not on the same plane. I don’t think we can appeal to “we must obey God rather than men” here. We might perhaps rightly object to restrictions on the grounds that they are needless, or… Read more »
I am not saying this is a time for invoking “we must obey God rather than men”; rather, I am saying that the apostle who said “we must obey Go rather than men” with respect to the public preaching of the gospel, cannot be appealed to as one ceding to the state the authority to prohibit the public preaching of the gospel. My argument here is not “we must disobey and meet,” but rather that Romans 13 was wrongly invoked here. Whatever is or is not the case about this particular action, you can’t use Romans 13 to say the… Read more »
Excellent comment John, thanks. I have seen a lot of very fuzzy and motivated thinking on this issue here and elsewhere. There are(at least) two distinct questions: 1) can the civil authorities impinge upon a churches operations/assembly? 2) are the current restrictions prudent? The answer to 1 is a clear and resounding yes. The civil authorities can mandate that a church building not be a public hazard, they can mandate occupancy restrictions, they can mandate parking lot size, they can tell you to know it off of you are amping your worship band up to 130 db, and they can… Read more »
Requiring their meetings to occur under certain external conditions related to fire safety and not physically endangering your neighbors, and forbidding their meetings, are different categories, not merely a difference of degree.
Jane, As with most things, the answer is “it depends.” Different polities have handled things very differently, and I am far from an expert in what every state or locality has done. In my area the restrictions have been in the form of: “no assembly of persons greater than X number of people shall be held, with certain exceptions” or “no more than X number of people per X square feet shall assemble, with certain exception.” It has not been “church services shall not be held.” I do agree that those are difference of kind and not degree, and if… Read more »
” It seems to me too many Christians are complaining about this as though they were being targeted and no-one else, a form of persecution. But this applies to all other religions and groups as well”
Not abortion clinics.
So I have a long, trying day. Day 2 of a migraine, in fact. Lying down in a dim room with a cold compress, I check out the Tuesday letters to cheer up — and what do I find?? The knowledge that Douglas Wilson once reviewed Twilight and I can buy that ebook for a BUCK. A buck!!! God is good.
Longer the lockdown, less time for Trump rallies.
The down side is that chronically aggrieved Douglas Wilson gets to gin up the faithful with his with his vast knowledge of epidemiology and constitutional law. All that expertise in one man, wow!
Dear Mr Wilson
Thank you so much for your gracious reply. I too love Wodehouse and his use of language it makes me very gruntled!
You many find these articles written by a Professor of English at Magdelen College of interest if you like words, he’s written an interesting one on pandemic terms.
https://theconversation.com/profiles/simon-horobin-203262/articles
Best wishes
Emma