Instead of Burning Down a Pharmacy, Why Not Write a Stern Letter?

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Reasonable Doubt

Thank you SO much for this post. You are the ONLY person, let alone authority figure, that I have seen who has not condemned Chauvin (though he may be fully condemnable). There are way too many question marks about this case that we probably won’t ever have all of the truth, and I thank you for recognizing that we certainly don’t have it before there’s even been a trial.

Grace

Grace, you are most welcome, and thank you for noticing.

Question of the Hour

You’ve spoken before about your childhood and white flight and how your folks stayed put (if I’m remembering that correctly) and you were thankful for that. While it’s different in that it doesn’t involve race, could you speak to the potential of “Right Flight” – where conservative-minded Christian folks flee socialist blue bastions for redder pastures? What’s Scripture have to say about it, maybe how a Christian maneuvers through something like that, line between prudence and fear, potential pitfalls, leaving aging parents behind, that sort of thing.

Also, my church seems to be leaning more and more woke. I’d like to meet with my pastor and find out better where he’s coming from. My main concern is that he and other elders are being informed more by social justice than the whole counsel of God’s word. Could you recommend a question or three that would cut to the chase and allow me really see where they’re coming from?

As always, thanks for your candor, courage, and faithfulness.

Andy

Andy, the question I would ask is “how do we define justice, and how do we know when it is achieved?” On relocation, you are right that I do need to write about the biblical principles involved. That needs to be soon because I see a massive shift coming, a mile-wide refugee column leaving the blue states.

Thought Police

Pastor, hard to say in how many ways I was blessed reading this. No intent to puff you up, but my friend it feels like some days you’re the last man alive willing to publish the truth on this topic. Actually part of why I’m writing is for recommendations of other truth-tellers you read on culture, preferably other believers but maybe you’ll surprise me.

One big blessing was your recounting of the times of actual vast and culturally acceptable racial sin by whites in our country. I remember hearing my Dad, an otherwise friendly and gregarious fellow, muttering racial insults about neighbors with a matter of fact attitude. No one like that today has any kind of voice in our culture, and it is certainly not systemic like it was, thank you for reminding us of Reality.

The other thing that floored me was your simple and oh so true statement that it is guilt about unrestrained and filthy lives these people live in regards to sex. It may be hard for youth to restrain themselves and be God’s man or woman, unfortunately not doing so leads you to bizarre cauterized heart feelings, behaviors, and attitudes. Anyone who has walked in purity and stumbled knows this so well, God places His grief and repulsion for abusing sex directly within the heart itself with an almost physical pain. Ignore that pain long enough and you ignore your very heart and conscience you were born with, your slavery becomes something seemingly absolute. Don’t forget to add that all the “blasphemous blacks”, as you astutely rebuke them, are able to be so for the same reason, because of unrestrained abuse of what was intended to be pure and set apart, sex. Our culture hates getting lectured about it and now they are consumed and utterly defined by the abuse of it. This is the real reason behind so much bizarre behavior. I am still struck today reading how Saul, for whatever reason, decided he needed to prophecy naked. The pride of his heart and his treatment of sex were strangely linked.

But I have to remind myself we are all to remain humble and not stand up with a raucous round of applause reading your conclusion of how to turn this ship around. Thank you. I would encourage you to consider how our generation (I’m a young parent in my 30s) believes more than just that higher education is sacred. They believe that a prerequisite to parenting now is to get the heck out of your kid’s way in life, to the point that you hardly want to be a defining example for them. This is especially true for fathers who view feck in terms of raising kids as a moral evil. This is why the university attracts. It is the transition and equipping to adulthood parents deeply believe would be wrong for them to attempt to give their kids.

I once read in one of your books I think that we ought to be seeking to engender loyalty, God willing, in our sons. I think a follow up to this dose of reality post is how parents can “not whether, but which” the university vs. their own parenting, and realize that they’ve been outsourcing the role God exclusively gave them, such a humbling reality, as the greatest VIPs their children will ever know. I write this not championing righteous parenthood, but cut to the quick about how much I have been failing my child and how much I wish to grow into the kind of man who can present a real example of the character my boy, by God’s grace, wants and needs to follow. And of course, if I have done my job well, I will introduce him to the reality of a tough world young so he is prepared from the first moment of the age of maturity to marry a woman, and actually keep clothes on her back and enough calories on her table with a real paycheck. I wish more dads knew (Father’s Day coming btw) that while other institutions can be an aid, faithfully helping their sons transition to basic marital readiness at the age they desperately need to get married to be pure is his responsibility alone, not a professor’s.

Wow, a mouthful I know. But you keep writing and cold-cocking Evangelical consciences square on like this, and my letters are only going to grow longer. :)

Praying for your ministry and for revival with you,

Patrick

Patrick, thanks very much.

Listening to your podcast and reading your blog has been an incredible help in my journey out of the dispensational compromise of the Scriptures. I always knew there was something wrong deep down but I couldn’t put my finger on what it was, although it tended to intensify when leading someone in “the sinner’s prayer,” knowing full well they had no more interest in repentance than I had in eating a lightbulb. With all sincerity, thank you (and the brothers at Apologia, who started me on the path) for your dedication and faithfulness to God and the proper teaching of His Word. While I can make no guarantee of fair-mindedness nor . . . well-written-ness, I do have one request: please, please, please, please sell “Defund the thought police” t-shirts, coffee mugs, phone and computer backgrounds and other merch.

Even if your don’t, I’m still grateful for your ministry.

God bless,

Deryck

Deryck, thanks much.

Thanks for your post Defund the Thought Police. I’d like to ask you what you think the greater need is today — more faithful churches or more faithful Christian schools? I think the answer is churches, which then create and/or support the schools, and I’d like to give my rationale and see what you think.

I’ve taught at two different classical Christian schools, and in both I taught the Omnibus curriculum among other things. At one of the schools, I would teach Omnibus for 2 hours and 15 minutes a day, five days a week. The amount you get to invest in middle and high school aged students, pouring over the greatest books in history from a Christian worldview, as well as Scripture itself, is incredible. But the problem is that in both schools I taught at, the hosting church and many of the parents of my students didn’t know anything about this stuff, about theology, history, or literature to be honest. I remember in class we were discussing the prosperity gospel and Creflo Dollar, kind of joking about him, and then one of my students sheepishly says “That’s my pastor.” I sent her dad several emails explaining my concern with Creflo Dollar, linked to articles, etc.

But I realized that there is always going to be serious tension between the headmaster and the parents, the teacher and the students, and perhaps even between the wary headmaster and the zealous teacher since I was always instructed to teach the curriculum but not push any certain doctrinal perspective as the best/most accurate. I had one Catholic girl crying as she began to see the weight of justification by faith alone, and she thanked me for it, and her parents did not seem to mind/never said anything about it. But lots of Evangelical happy-clappy parents would give you hell if they perceived you dissed their doctrine or their dear children in any way.

Getting a teaching job has been much easier for me than achieving ordination in a NAPARC denomination. I was in the PCA but, long story short, my holding biblical views on sexuality and other matters made me an undesirable. It led me to a small micro-denomination in which I have been licensed for some time and God willing will be ordained as a teaching elder next year.

So the entrance into faithful pastoral ministry is, in my experience, fraught with much more difficult due to the powers that be in comparison with teaching in a classical Christian school. But these schools are hampered when they are not supported/hosted by biblically grounded churches. So it seems in the short term the schools are the easier road to get into, but some of the fruit is spoiled due to the churches not catechizing their own and exhorting the parents to nurture their children in the fear and admonition of the Lord. I think the best solution are faithful churches that also are affiliated with or create Christian schools, though in reality at this time it might be more likely that faithful Christian schools give rise to small, faithful church plants due to clusters of parents waking up to their shortcomings as well as their church’s. But then you have the accusations of betrayal, sowing discord in churches, the church no longer hosting and supporting the Christian school, etc. But this is the cost of real reform.

Thanks,

Thomas

Thomas, yes, we are on the same page. The need of the hour is the planting of Christian churches that understand the need for robust Christian education. Schools cannot thrive without supporting churches, and churches that don’t overflow into full-orbed Christian education aren’t doing their job.

One country we can learn from, in a cautionary sense, is South Africa. After apartheid (which, unlike Jim Crow, appears to have been more about creating separate nations for the different peoples than keeping a permanent black underclass) was dismantled, the ANC set about renaming provinces and airports to remove the Afrikaner and British heritage of South Africa. They renamed the Jan Smuts airport, named after a moderate who opposed some elements of apartheid and who was the only man to sign the treaties ending both World Wars, the Johannesburg airport, saying that airports should not be named for political figures, and a few years later they renamed it to honor Oliver Tambo, an ANC leader who was responsible for the Church Street bombing, which killed many civilians and several black air force members. They also named a new airport after Shaka Zulu, a king who, among other atrocities, murdered his brother and probably his father to steal the throne, forbade his soldiers to take a wife except in conquest, and forbade farming for a year after his mother died, resulting in massive starvation. I remember talking to a South African gentlemen who saw our country to be in the early stages of what is going on now.

When the founding fathers are no longer honored in America, and when all statues and murals of white people accused of racism are gone, they will honor other people, and I doubt it will be people like George Washington Carver, Sacagawea, Squanto, and Booker T. Washington. It is more likely they will honor the likes of slave rebel Nat Turner and Malcolm X, and that may be the least of our new problems.

James

James, exactly right. The new statues will be the least of our problems.

A Mask Question

I do not write you today in order to interact with a specific post, although my question for you is informed by several of your posts regarding the wearing of face masks. I do not wear them when I can appropriately serve my family by doing so (e.g. If I need to go to Costco or to work, I comply, but I try to thoughtfully resist elsewhere.).

I work for a very large coffee chain. My employer has aligned overtly with progressive political movements. I am currently the only employed member in my household, and I do not want to lose my job, but I am considering a bit of godly trouble-making, and I am desirous of your wise advice.

My employer recently approved the wearing of facial coverings and clothing that displays the slogan, “Black Lives Matter.” I find it unconscionable that anyone would support BLM, but this is where we are. I am thinking of obtaining and wearing a mask displaying the slogan, “Black Babies Matter,” because I know that BLM hypocritically supports abortion, and a large number of black babies lose their lives every day because of abortion clinics aiding and abetting the innocent children’s murderous parents.

My question is this: should I take a stand in order to spark conversation and shake things up, knowing full well that there may be real consequences regarding my employment?

I should add . . . I am prayerfully considering this question, and I will be consulting my husband and my pastor for guidance.

Thank you for being a bright spot of sanity in our dim landscape!

Sincerely,

A Feisty Reformed Mama

Dear Feisty Mama, and may the day be hastened when that is no longer an unusual form of address, I think that doing something like that could be absolutely fine, depending on your ability to handle the “conversations” that will certainly follow.

Flags Out Front

I have been contemplating a few questions to ask you about this post-mil worldview that I have found myself falling into lately, and likely would have written this note differently had my nightstand reading pile (so to speak) not dwindled down to your Flags Out Front. I don’t read fiction often, so I wasn’t sure what I might be getting into, but I absolutely enjoyed it. It has probably been since ol’ Puddleglum himself, giving a burned foot speech in the underworld, that I have literally cheered out loud for a character, but that Tom Collins was well worth the whoop I let out a few times while reading. Even now I am smiling as I think of his retort to the news lady. Thanks so much for all of your writing. (I wonder if I could convince you to write a bit of detective fiction next?)

Anyway . . . one of the reasons I think I enjoyed it so much, as I have read it over these last two weeks, is because it seems strangely pertinent to these times we are living in. As I was reading about Dr Tom’s adventures in standing his ground, Scriptures like Proverbs 10:9, and Proverbs 29:25, and Ephesians 5:15-17 kept popping into my head. Do you think some things as simple as integrity and a wise word aptly spoken will win the day even now, in a world of riots and social meltdown?

Scott

Scott, yes. I actually believe is not the wisdom of the words that is most potent, but rather the courage involved, the refusal to buckle. We don’t necessarily need more eloquent men, but we most certainly need more men.

Discipline and Sacraments

I am looking for some guidance on how church discipline is carried out on children (especially 16-17 year olds). I am a lay elder at a small Southern Baptist church in Indiana. I have discussed this significantly with the eldership and we really have not much of an idea of what it looks like. We have recently transitioned to a group of elders and see the importance of biblical church discipline. I have not been able to find much literature concerning the subject. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

James

James, the short answer is that I would discipline baptized 16 and 17-year-olds in much the same way as we would adults. Not stricter, not looser, equal weights and measures. But in either case, I would only conduct church discipline for big ticket stuff.

Off-topic question about baptism. Do you believe that water baptism causes the person baptized to be made a member of the covenant? Or do you see water baptism as a public marking or acknowledgment that this person is already in the covenant? To ask it another way, does the minister have the authority to make the person baptized a member of the visible covenant community or are ministers simply affirming publicly what they believe to be true of the person spiritually?

BJ

BJ, great question. I believe that when I baptize an infant, my warrant for doing so is that they are already federally or covenantally holy. My application of water is simply the formalization of that.

All Must Point to Christ As a credo who is willing to challenge that position, I keep running into the same snag with opposing arguments. The reasoning just doesn’t seem to be consistent with the character of God.

The oldest and arguably laziest atheistic rebuke of religion is “Why do bad things happen to good people”, and the response is “because that is a necessary component to free will.” You can’t have free will, which by its nature includes the ability to choose evil, without the consequences of that evil also existing. This defense is quite correct and consistent with God’s behavior towards man. When Eve was being tempted by the apple, God did not jump out of the sky and force her not to do so. When I find myself examining my political positions, the one story I keep coming back to is Israel demanding a king. God warned His people that this was an obviously terrible idea. They wanted one anyway. He did not deny them their king, he provided one.

If I could distill one thing I believe God prizes most highly in His creation, it is free will. It is the primary distinguishing feature between the creatures made in His image and those that aren’t. The most important aspect in all of history, salvation, is determined primary through the free will process of accepting that salvation.

Why would a God who consistently prizes free will seemingly above all else in every measurable category suddenly be unconcerned with the child’s free will in entering “a covenantal obligation for the one being baptized.?”

The interpretation just doesn’t read as consistent to the rest of the Bible to me.

Justin

Justin, it appears to me that our differences go all the way down. The most important thing to God is His own glory, not our free will. When He made me a Wilson, a male, an American, etc. He did not consult my free will for any of those things. Why should He consult my free will in making me a Christian?

A question for you on communion. Our church has been holding online services due to coronavirus-inspired restrictions in our city, and a few times since then our pastor has encouraged us to partake in the Lord’s Supper in our homes with any foodstuffs and drinks we have available. I don’t want to be legalistic about this, but I am trying to figure out what an appropriate way to take communion during this time could be, especially in light of these verses:

“So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. That is why many among you are weak and ill, and a number of you have fallen asleep. But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment. Nevertheless, when we are judged in this way by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be finally condemned with the world. So then, my brothers and sisters, when you gather to eat, you should all eat together. Anyone who is hungry should eat something at home, so that when you meet together it may not result in judgment. And when I come I will give further instructions.”

‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭11:27-34‬ ‭NIVUK‬‬

Any thoughts you have on what might fall under the heading of “an unworthy manner” will be appreciated. Thanks!

Laura

PS – Thank you for all you have written on your blog over the last few months. You’ve given me much to think about and much encouragement. As a Canadian mother of young children I don’t have much time to research all that is happening in the US right now, but I have appreciated your perspectives and faithfulness to Scripture. Also, praise God for the Bible Reading Challenge! Shocking, I know, but reading the Bible regularly has begun to transform my mind and I see the BRC as a sweet mercy the Lord has brought into my life to change me and glorify him. Again, thanks!

Laura

Laura, thanks for the questions. I believe that eating and drinking in an unworthy manner has to do with partaking on top of quarrels and factions. At the same time, I believe that solitary communion at home is an oxymoron. Technically, it is not the unworthy manner that Paul is talking about, but it is a contradiction in terms. Partaking of the Lord’s body and blood is what the congregation does when we all come together. When COVID first hit, we placed our services online for our people to use, but did not include communion because there is no such thing as online communion.

A Problem in the Family

Your blog, lectures, sermons and debates have been very helpful and challenging to me. Thank you.

I have a question regarding an upcoming divorce in my family. It is unfortunately the third in recent years among my parent’s siblings.

The most pertinent facts are:

1. They are both professing Christians.

2. My biological aunt is the instigator.

3. To the best of my knowledge she has given no evidence to anyone that supports biblical grounds for divorce.

I don’t know what to do. She has refused counseling and hired a mad-dog lawyer. She refused to give any evidence to support biblical divorce. However, I have no spiritual authority to challenge her as I am her nephew and not her pastor. I am 24 to her 41. I am also reluctant to do so because it would almost certainly splinter my extended family that has already been split by my grandparents’ divorce.

Do you know how I can love her as a brother in Christ and as her nephew?

Concerned Nephew

Dear CN, in situations like this one, everything depends on how close to her you were before all this, and how much of a demand for approval she is going to place on the family afterwards. If you were close, I would go talk to her. If not, then not. If she is going to show up at Thanksgiving with a new boyfriend, demanding that everyone accept her choices, then I would have one talk with her, explaining why you did not. But I would not seek to be her pastor. Let her pastor do that.

Troublers of Israel

Thank you for attacking every stronghold, especially those most beloved by the age, and accepting vilification for it. It is goal I aspire to, hoping that I too may have that Knoxious fear of God that fears no man. It occurred to me that the current outcry that is coming from many recent alumni (read: woke twentysomethings) of Christian colleges and universities — demanding that their Almae Matres virtue-signal themselves into greater and greater WOKEness — a demand that can only be fully acceded to by the dismantling of the university itself — is a fulfillment of the prophet Hosea 8:7,

“For they sow the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind.”

Barring those professors who were deemed “Troublers of Israel” by the Ahabs and Jezebels in power, the rest of the Christian university I recently graduated from is receiving the exact fruit of the seeds which she planted. She has borne children of whoredom and shall be devoured by her children.

Mind you, I would not trade those college years for all the gold in the New Jerusalem. There were many servants still there who have not bowed the knee to Baal. Those — whether my professors or my peers — were teachers and companions on the Pilgrim way. The field may have been little better than a dunghill, but the pearl of great price was found there.

I believe you know one of the Troublers, whom I won’t incriminate here, except to say that he taught me in the way of Princetonian Right Reason.

Is there wisdom in continuing his method of subverting the secularization of institutions from within? At what point does one consider the institution lost and begin a new one up the road? I am grateful he and other Troublers troubled me right into the way of the Lord, but if the foundations are destroyed what can the righteous do?

John

John, there is no one way to be faithful in faithless times. Elijah challenged a faithless king. Obadiah subverted and undermined that same king.

Crash Course Videos

My wife and I have been blessed by the Crash Course videos from Christ Church. The simple and profound explanations are going to stick with us for a while . . . we’ve already shared some insights with friends. Very well done! It’s been a fun after-breakfast habit to watch them together. I feel like this should be an exercise that every godly man seeks to grow up into — the ability to clearly explain key verses/passages.

Alexander

Alexander, thanks much. Glad they have been helpful.

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Hope
Hope
3 years ago

“That needs to be soon because I see a massive shift coming, a mile-wide refugee column leaving the blue states.”

My family will be one of them. We just don’t know where to go…

Gray
Gray
3 years ago

“…a mile-wide refugee column leaving the blue states…” And one hopes that it does not produce what I have witnessed throughout the non-blue states as a result of that shift. (I am old enough to remember when the leftist bloc was identified as red, and more consistent with their Marxist tendencies; as is usual for “conservatives”, the color shifted just like language has, without any real resistance, which some report as being an invention of the New York Times. I am so old that I remember when gay meant happy.) Back on point, I saw what happened to Colorado in… Read more »

Chadd
Chadd
3 years ago

As one living in South Jersey, I second Andy’s question on relocation.

Malachi Tarchannen
Malachi Tarchannen
3 years ago

“Andy, the question I would ask is ‘how do we define justice, and how do we know when it is achieved?’ On relocation, you are right that I do need to write about the biblical principles involved. That needs to be soon because I see a massive shift coming, a mile-wide refugee column leaving the blue states.” Well, that pre-addresses my mind’s most prevalent question. I find myself asking, “Where are all the REAL patriots in this country?” I love to listen to the fantastic talking heads–Tucker Carlson, Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh, Doug Wilson, Voddie Baucham, etc.–be they political or… Read more »

-BJ-
-BJ-
3 years ago

Malachi, I am with you, brother. Here is how I have approached it. We have three weapons we should be using right now. (1) Take the long game look. Be shaping and teaching your family how to deal think about this biblically. Teach the people in your church community. (Our first fights really need to be local). And focus on the long game. We won’t turn this around in ten years. But we can turn it around in a generation. (2) Be the gadfly. Don’t be embarrassed about saying what we believe out loud. It doesn’t have to be a… Read more »

-BJ-
-BJ-
3 years ago

DCL,

I have church full of people who feel like him.

William
William
3 years ago

Dear Chronically Aggrieved,

What did you expect would happen when evangelicals sold their birthright for a bowl of Trump Porridge? Character does matter – especially at the top.

Thanks for nothing.

jsm
jsm
3 years ago
Reply to  William

Yeah Trump has been in office 3 years while all the other politicians have been there decades and Trump is the reason everything is in free fall. You can return your head to your posterior.

-BJ-
-BJ-
3 years ago
Reply to  William

You really think this is all happening, because Evangelicals voted for Trump rather than Hillary or not voting? Can you please explain how this would have been different if Hillary had been in charge? This is delusional thinking.

William
William
3 years ago
Reply to  -BJ-

Yep. Pretty much.

On the positive side, maybe you getting a taste of your own medicine will give you a broader perspective on what black Americans, native Americans, and poor whites have experienced since before the founding of the Republic. But I’m not betting on it.

Delusional, coming from a Wilson disciple?! Pot, meet kettle.

-BJ-
-BJ-
3 years ago
Reply to  William

William,

I came from the poorest of the rural white worlds you have ever been in, so I know precisely what that world is like. So, you are confused here. And, you never actually explained anything, just bald assertion. You actually think that Hillary would have been better for Christians? I thought you said character mattered? Please explain rather than hurling insults, unless, like most good leftists, that is all you have.

William
William
3 years ago
Reply to  -BJ-

Easy, Tiger. You hurled the insult.

-BJ-
-BJ-
3 years ago
Reply to  William

William,

I called your argument delusional. No personal insult at all. And, you still haven’t defended your claim, just saying. Perhaps you secretly know the claim was delusional.

JP Stewart
JP Stewart
3 years ago
Reply to  William

Billions of dollars of damage in vandalism, looting and arson; the number killed in the riots is in the double-digits; dozens of assaults (some targeted specifically at white skin color); police forces in big cities completely overwhelmed and now maybe defunded (talk about being a haven for sex traffickers and other horrid criminals)…and William blames it all on Trump voters? Not the MSM/Hollywood/gov’t school narrative that spread the toxic narrative behind this? Not Antifa? Not thug looters? Not elements within BLM?

Stop quoting Bible verses, William. Your god isn’t our God. You’re more closely aligned with this crowd:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNrUFiz6izY

William
William
3 years ago
Reply to  JP Stewart

Billions? What’s the source of your info?

Gray
Gray
3 years ago

Fraternally, I think the idea that the value of “speaking out” is contextual based upon the circumstances. It seems as if it is an exercise in futility to attempt reasoning with people who either will not or cannot. A significant cross-section of society has been trained to believe that sentiment is thinking. Conversation across that divide is not just speaking a foreign language; you are speaking an unknown tongue to a completely different culture, and one that is bound by an entire catalogue of presuppositions. By the grace of God, I started expected this in the 1970’s soon after I… Read more »

JohnM
JohnM
3 years ago

Leave the blue states for red states? How much difference does it make anymore? Never mind that. If where you are doesn’t feel safe, and I mean physically safe, leave that place for someplace not in proximity to people who despise you and want to hurt you; someplace where the mob does not gather, some place not so easily accessible to or appealing to the dissolute, the lawless, and the predatory, if you can find that place. That’s your option that matters now. I’d recommend against bigger cities, but some of the smaller ones too. I’d recommend against a college… Read more »

Dave
Dave
3 years ago
Reply to  JohnM

“P.S. Justice Gorsuch just taught us how little difference all the rest makes now – that, and blew away the last excuse anyone would have to cast a vote for President Trump.” John John, unfaithful Justices is nothing new in America. We have seen abysmal rulings for decades by individuals who were supposed to be rock solid judges. Are they blackmailed? Are they bought off? We will never know. Who then should we vote for? In local races, the lack of Christians voting has allowed evil individuals to be raised to positions of authority; and as Proverbs tells us when… Read more »

William
William
3 years ago
Reply to  Dave

Davey, come on! Destroy Christianity in America? Well, maybe your version of Christianity. But for the rest of us, “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

Who then should we vote for? ABT or Doug Wilson.

Dave
Dave
3 years ago
Reply to  William

“Davey, come on! Destroy Christianity in America?” William

William, HR 5 takes extreme action against Christians and gives special privileges to homosexuals. That is just one of the proposed bills to limit the ability to worship the one true God. We have seen how quickly the various states were able to limit worship during the house arrest. Yes, destroy Christianity in America.

“Who then should we vote for? ABT or Doug Wilson.” William

Again, William, who should Christians vote for? Which of the two choices we are faced with, the party of death — the DNC candidate or Trump?

William
William
3 years ago
Reply to  Dave

Dave, you are flat wrong about HR-5. Here’s what it does: This bill prohibits discrimination based on sex, sexual orientation, and gender identity in a wide variety of areas including public accommodations and facilities, education, federal funding, employment, housing, credit, and the jury system. Specifically, the bill defines and includes sex, sexual orientation, and gender identity among the prohibited categories of discrimination or segregation. The bill expands the definition of public accommodations to include places or establishments that provide (1) exhibitions, recreation, exercise, amusement, gatherings, or displays; (2) goods, services, or programs; and (3) transportation services. The bill allows the… Read more »

Dave
Dave
3 years ago
Reply to  William

“You folks seem to forget that they are citizens, too. Endowed with inalienable rights by their Creator.” William William, you are sugar coating the special privileges given to homosexuals in HR 5. Homosexuals, transgenders and others confused about their identity do not need to be in locker rooms with those of the opposite sex, they do not need to take photos of girls in Target bathrooms, boys — even confused boys do not need to compete against girls in sports and a host of other issues raised by HR 5. There is no constitutional right to those activities. HR 5… Read more »

William
William
3 years ago
Reply to  Dave

Davey boy, no I’m not sugar coating anything. I just posted what HR 5 does. Just because you don’t like homosexuals & transgender folks & probably whole bunch of other people, doesn’t change a thing. Your explanation of why it failed to advance to the Senate is your opinion.

My dearest Davey, if your Christianity is destroyed by codifying a group of people with the same rights you have, well then, it’s not Christianity. But that’s no surprise to me. I’ve never thought your religion even remotely resembled Jesus.

JP Stewart
JP Stewart
3 years ago
Reply to  William

“My dearest Davey, if your Christianity is destroyed by codifying a group of people with the same rights you have, well then, it’s not Christianity”

If your Christianity refuses to acknowledge sodomy as an abomination and sin (clear in both the OT and NT), it’s not Christianity. And if you’re the judge of who’s a Christian or not, then we’re talking about some other religion…like intersectionality or something.

William
William
3 years ago
Reply to  William

7 votes against Jesus! & the Bible.

JohnM
JohnM
3 years ago
Reply to  Dave

Neil Gorsuch was fairly new though, on the SCOTUS, and much celebrated by those Christians who saw fit to vote for Trump as vindication of their choice. Turns out, not so much. Are they blackmailed? Are they bought off? Probably not. They probably were simply not who we wishfully thought they were. Why would we think they were that anyway? “Conservative” judges are drawn from pretty much the same pool as liberal ones after all – went to the same schools, have the same loyalties, the same personal priorities, make the same fundamental assumptions about life. By the time they… Read more »

JohnM
JohnM
3 years ago
Reply to  JohnM

“And besides, I don’t see how anyone could reasonably argue the Civil Rights Act doesn’t apply to LGBTQ. LGBTQ is a legal status, it exists, so how could it fall outside the CRA?”

Well, and the Republicans agree. Just so everybody reading here knows.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/15/gorsuch-lgbt-republicans-321096

JohnM
JohnM
3 years ago
Reply to  JohnM

Well they have legal status now. I don’t think it was undeniable that they did before (though I’m not 100% sure what you mean), or the case wouldn’t have come up. Too, I doubt the three dissenting justices, though fallible like all the others, are oblivious to statute or precedent, or would have been allowed to remain so in deliberation, and I doubt they are completely unable to grasp logic at all, so the decision wasn’t an inevitable slam-dunk, legally or logically.

JohnM
JohnM
3 years ago
Reply to  JohnM

“The court conferred status via Obergefell v. Hodges, if not before.” Maybe. Obergefell did set some kind of precedent. Precedent is NOT binding. This case had to end up before the court nonetheless, and three justices did not seem to find a legal status that made the CAR applicable. The outcome may have been inevitable, but not for absolutely compelling legal or logical reasons. “Anyone who thinks the justices don’t let politics influence their stated position is not paying attention.” And there is your reason, as much as any. Anyway, I know my original point will be lost on those… Read more »

Dave
Dave
3 years ago
Reply to  JohnM

“You say failure of Christians to vote in local races is what allowed evil individuals to be raised to positions of authority?” John John, I live in a relatively small town where the voter turn out is a small percentage of the population and the Christians in the town, if they showed up at the polling locations, could easily outvote the opposition. That being said, I also believe that God raises up and puts down leaders at His pleasure and that if Christians really put their faith to action, God would be merciful to us allowing us to live peaceful… Read more »

JohnM
JohnM
3 years ago
Reply to  Dave

Dave (should I repeat your name for some reason?), observations in one small town do not necessarily indicate anything about local races generally. Then too, that is assuming your observation is accurate anyway. How do you know Christians are not showing up to vote, but differently than you expect? Or that actual Christians are as many as you think? If the kind of blog posters you describe are typical, how much good can you expect if they *do* show up to vote? At any rate, no I don’t think that is the problem nationally or has anything to do with… Read more »

Jill Smith
Jill Smith
3 years ago
Reply to  JohnM

Gorsuch is a Catholic who attends (and ushers at) his wife’s Episcopalian church in Boulder, Colorado. This church is very liberal even by Episcopalian standards, and it is especially gay friendly. Because he hasn’t formally left the Catholic church, the make up of SCOTUS continues to be 6 Catholics and 3 Jews. I am wondering when it became almost a requirement that SCOTUS justices attend ivy league undergraduate and law schools. I think that’s the transformation that you describe gets its start. It would be a very good thing if the pool of potential judges was widened to include brilliant… Read more »

JohnM
JohnM
3 years ago
Reply to  Jill Smith

Thanks Jill.

It would be a very good thing, but Ivy is a powerful syndicate indeed. J.D. Vance’s Hillbilly Elegy provides one glimpse of how it works.

Adad
Adad
3 years ago
Reply to  Jill Smith

Do you think they might also consider good humored internet wise acres?😏

Gray
Gray
3 years ago
Reply to  JohnM

John, In your “prudent sort of worry” I have always thought of that as preparing. I see it akin to whatever event that is anticipated, one then takes reasoned steps to prepare for that which is (only) foreseeable. If you know that the test is for doing 50 pushups, then when you can knock out 75 on command you are adequately prepared. Where I think this runs into problems is because some things that actually are foreseeable are intentionally pushed down because the thought creates a departure from zones of comfortable thinking. This kind of foresight is a combination of… Read more »

JohnM
JohnM
3 years ago
Reply to  Gray

Gray,
With that last paragraph I believe you are saying something, but I’ll admit you kind of lost me. In other words….?

Gray
Gray
3 years ago
Reply to  JohnM

John, The last paragraph is an opinion; I cannot verify it since I have never acquired a Holy Ghost radiography system, and I lack the license to use it. What I mean by the statement is that I think that the obligations of being a man, husband and father incur specific responsibilities and obligations that are non-delegable. What could be a fate worse than that of an unbeliever? Nonetheless, Paul assigns that derogative upon those who fail that provision. Within the terms of provision, the protection of their life and safety resides at the top of the heap. By ignoring… Read more »

JohnM
JohnM
3 years ago
Reply to  Gray

Thanks Gray. Protection of life and safety resides at the top of the heap was pretty much my point.

Justin Parris
Justin Parris
3 years ago

Doug, I think you misunderstand my meaning. At no point had I ever meant to imply that our free will is God’s singular and only concern, merely that it is quite obviously and easily shown with evidence to be a substantial priority in almost every aspect of how He deals with us. He could have forced Adam and Eve not to eat of the fruit, He didn’t. He could have forced the people of the world to be better so He wouldn’t have to flood it. He didn’t. During all of his instructions to Abraham, He could have simply forced… Read more »

Mike M.
Mike M.
3 years ago
Reply to  Justin Parris

Justin, Human beings have free will in that we freely follow our own desires. However, scripture is clear that our free will is still subordinate to God’s design. What Joseph’s brothers intended for evil, God intended for good (Gen 50:20). God used the king of Assyria’s evil intentions to execute his righteous judgement on Israel (Isa 10:5-7). The choices of man never constrain or thwart the will of God, but are rather His design for His purposes (Rom 9:19-23). In all the examples you list of people disobeying the prescriptive will of God, you are correct that these people are… Read more »

Robert
Robert
3 years ago
Reply to  Mike M.

Mike, as a baptistic post mil Believer, the reason I wouldn’t have children baptized as infants is that I don’t believe that is what Scripture teaches. Let’s see if I can try and explain it this way. Zenna becomes a Christian after she is married and has two kids. Let’s say she was led to the Lord by Credobaptist, Reformed, Lutheran, whatever, so she is instructed to baptize her very young children, but her unbeliever husband doesn’t want her to, so she doesn’t push the matter. Are her children in the Covenant? Clearly, yes. Why are they in the Covenant?… Read more »

Mike M.
Mike M.
3 years ago
Reply to  Robert

Robert,

I agree that baptism is an act of obedience to God, in the same way that following every commandment of the Lord Jesus is an act of obedience to God. But water baptism is also the (visible, outward) sign and declaration of belonging to the New Covenant. If we agree that the children of believers are covenant members (and we do appear to agree on this), then why would we normatively withhold the outward sign from them? To me, the parallel with circumcision is clear (Col 2:11-12).

Robert
Robert
3 years ago
Reply to  Mike M.

Mike M, because every example in Scripture of baptisms are Credobaptisms. The jailer’s family doesn’t mention extremely young children, but says his family believed. Having the whole family being converted at once is not unusual when the Word is really taught.

Justin Parris
Justin Parris
3 years ago
Reply to  Mike M.

Your first two paragraphs aren’t being contested, except insofar as I think you’re confusing issues. Of course God has prescriptive solutions that man is meant to follow. They weren’t “free” to sin in the sense that they had no obligation. They were free in the sense that nobody was to force them to comply with that obligation. This is exactly what is being discussed here. Man is to give himself over to baptism. Why then must this one thing, this one exception be made in the way God does everything else, just here he requires forcible obedience rather than asking… Read more »

J.F. Martin
J.F. Martin
3 years ago
Reply to  Justin Parris

Hello Justin, In your first comment, I understand that your original question was side-stepped, leaving you wanting a direct response. I interpret your comment above as a continuation of frustration regarding the initial response, and more of an argument or effort to persuade than to understand. I go to resources like these to find others’ support for paedobaptism: https://www.ligonier.org/learn/devotionals/the-infant-baptism-question/ https://www.gty.org/library/articles/A361/case-for-infant-baptism-the-historic-paedobaptist-position As for free will, it will be curious to see how much we really understand when all is revealed in Heaven. I’m a fan of Luther’s ‘Bondage of the Will’, especially as it is written in response to Erasmus’ ‘On… Read more »

Mike M.
Mike M.
3 years ago
Reply to  Justin Parris

Justin, You’re right that the Holy Spirit didn’t replace my heart of stone, or yours, at random. But it wasn’t as a consequence of any free will decisions on our parts either. God has mercy on whom he desires, and He hardens whom he desires (Rom 9:18). We did not come to Christ of our own will, but rather because the Father drew us (John 6:44). A heart of stone will never choose to follow Christ. We were dead in our sins, and God raised us to spiritual life (Eph 2:5-6). He did this not because of any choice we… Read more »

john k
john k
3 years ago
Reply to  Justin Parris

Here you agree that Adam and Eve “weren’t ‘free’ to sin in the sense that they had no obligation.” That means that without their “free will” choice, they came under an obligation. So you agree that some obligations bind us without our choosing them.

So if baptism is (or can be) that kind of obligation, “free will” doesn’t rule out infant baptism.

-BJ-
-BJ-
3 years ago
Reply to  Mike M.

Mike M.

Well said! I love that you mentioned this notion of free will in the baptism discussion, because I run into it all the time in ministry. It happens so much, my brother and I decided to debate about it for our churches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbzU7It4j3k&list=PL6Nuau4C8u1ApCpwSJZqbKbeWIZw-CPr2

As I moved from an Arminian position to a Reformed position on salvation, this was the hardest hurdle for me to climb. I wanted to take credit for it, even if it was just a little.

Mike M.
Mike M.
3 years ago
Reply to  -BJ-

BJ,

Thanks! I’ll admit, as I began to be convinced of the Reformed tradition (coming from a Wesleyan tradition myself), one of my biggest hurdles was pride also. Although in my case, it was more the wounded pride of one who had previously dismissed the Reformed position out of hand, only to later realize how much more clearly it matched up with Scripture than my own perspective.

I see that video three in that series is private. Is there anything important I’m going to miss not having that when I take a gander?

-BJ-
-BJ-
3 years ago
Reply to  Mike M.

The private video was an error upload. We are posting part 3 next Tuesday. We published it in three parts for ease of viewing, rather than a 2 hour upload. It’ll be there soon. Feel free to ping me on it if something piques your interest.

Christopher
Christopher
3 years ago
Reply to  Justin Parris

If God does not force his will on people, did Nebuchadnezzar have a choice about eating grass for seven years?

JP Stewart
JP Stewart
3 years ago
Robert
Robert
3 years ago

If you live in PA, VA, OH, FL, TN and you want to leave because of Libs, you need to stay right there. Those are the states that determine who wins presidencies. Flight to red states, strengthens the Democrats. Move to the conservative parts of those states.

JP Stewart
JP Stewart
3 years ago
Reply to  Robert

According this (long but excellent) interview with a lawyer, the rioters chose Nashville instead of somewhere like Chattanooga since Nashville is run by Democrats and they knew they could get away with more. So yes it does matter where you live within your state.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRXdfMG4izs&t=275s

JohnM
JohnM
3 years ago
Reply to  JP Stewart

” So yes it does matter where you live within your state.”

Exactly so. Tennessee is appealing for several reasons, politics *per se* not being the top one. It’s just not as simple as red state/blue state. What is good about Tennessee does not offset conditions in Nashville or Memphis.

Hope
Hope
3 years ago
Reply to  JohnM

TN is the 5th most dangerous state in terms of property crime. Surprising, eh? I’m second guessing TN because of this.

Jane
Jane
3 years ago
Reply to  JohnM

Austin, TX being perhaps the most notorious example of this phenomenon.

Hope
Hope
3 years ago

May I recommend watching the interview with Yuri Bezmenov on Youtube entitled, “stages of communist takeovers”. He was a soviet defector. The first bit is slow, skip in if you want, but the rest is gold. I really wonder if the soviet collapse was real or if it was a sham.