Letters on Face Ownership and More

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Face Off

RE: They Don’t Really Own Your Face, You Know.

Great Article Mr. Wilson. A great encouragement to me this day, Whoever THEY are may or may not own our faces. Let’s work this out.

I am not forced to wear a mask at church and I can refuse to shop at Safeway and find another store that doesn’t require masks, so they DON’T OWN my face.

However In my particular case they DO OWN my job. I am in Canada and my employer implemented, a month ago, the decree that all employees must wear masks. – so they DO OWN my face. But wait, the employer has a policy allowing for religious exemptions so they DON’T OWN my face. So I submitted two successive requests for exemptions, backed up by a letter from my Pastor according to their policy. These requests cited Exodus 20: 16, the WLC Q&As 144-145 on the ninth commandment, and the Westminster Confession XX.II on Liberty of Conscience. I was denied on both requests. So I have to conclude either they DO OWN my face. OR I should have cited some unknown section from the Quran to be received more favorably. But of course hindsight is 20/20 and Exodus 20:16. No lawyer I’ve contacted will touch this, so they DO OWN my face. Yet, there’s always an appeal to Human Rights Code of Canada so maybe they DON’T OWN my face. OK I remember now the sort of Liberal government we have and conclude there are no Human Rights for Christians here so they DO OWN my face. As long my employer uses the mask as access to a job I’ve worked my tail at for over 7 years, they DO OWN my face. I just received the ultimatum today : “Wear a mask or be terminated”

Of course, there’s always The Heidelberg Catechism LD 1 Q&A 1.

That I with body and soul both , both in life and death, am not my own, but belong unto my faithful Savior Jesus Christ, who, with His previous blood, hath fully satisfied for all my sins, and delivered me from all the power of the devil, and so he preserves me that without the will of my heavenly Father, not a hair can fall from my head; yea, that all things must be subservient to my salvation, and therefore, by His Holy Spirit, He also assures me of eternal life, and makes me sincerely willing and ready, henceforth, to live unto Him.

So they DON’T OWN my face, and neither DO I. Jesus Christ does! Hallelujah. Amen.

Since my faith is part of my body, made in, and reflecting the image of God I will not be conformed to this world, but am delivered from all the power of the devil. My employment is subservient to my salvation in my Lord.

And that is how a confessional Christian works out the game of DO they OWN or DON’T they OWN my face. It’s a false dichotomy.

Blessings to you,

Mark

Mark, thanks very much. But I think there are a few extra steps yet to go in the reasoning process. When they say “or else,” there will be times when that options needs to be considered, and sometimes taken. I am saying from this distance when that line is, but there is a line of acquiescence that cedes the ownership.

I thought about facial cues and children the other day while in Menards with my mask on. A little boy, not yet a toddler, was looking at me. I gave him a smile. Then the thought occurred to me that he didn’t see a thing. I wondered what effect this nonsense has on small children who seemingly rely heavily on facial cues to understand their world.

Jeff

Jeff, yes. And with no defined end in sight.

They Don’t Really Own Your Face, You Know

“So all our interactions with non-believers should constitute a standing invitation to join us.”

I am currently refraining from volunteering for service opportunities at my church because in order to volunteer you have to wear a face mask. Now, when I attend worship service and other small group Bible studies I do not wear a mask. In fact, it would be easier to state the places and times I do wear a mask than to list all of the occasions I don’t wear a mask. (i.e. work, doctor’s office, etc.) This has not caused any disruption in the fellowship with church leadership, as well as my other brothers and sisters in Christ.

We have a community event coming up that I volunteered for last year. I have not signed up to volunteer this year because the sign-up sheet notes at the bottom, “All volunteers must wear a face mask.” I have had to curtail a lot of my pre-COVID leisure activities as a result of mask mandates. For example, I discontinued going to the gym to workout. I’m having difficulty digesting not serving with my local church body because I’m non-complaint with the mask mandate.

As a point of clarification on the highlighted sentence from your blog, my question is, when you reference “all our interactions”, would you include a community activity that a church is hosting as a way to minister to unbelievers?

Thanks,

Leanne

Leanne, everything else being equal I would include that. But under these circumstances I think you are playing it right. And you are not the one curtailing your service work, someone else is.

Just wanted to give you a little ammunition for any additional COVID-19 articles you may write. We are always told to rely on the science. So the CDC website has a collection of studies done on COVID-19. One such study it lists is by N.H. Leung et al. called “Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face masks.” They collected exhaled breath from 200 some participants with various viruses, and of course their results pointed to detecting fewer droplets and aerosols from participants when they wore masks. But then, buried in the report it says this: A subset of participants (72 of 246, 29%) did not cough at all during at least one exhaled breath collection, including 37 of 147 (25%) during the without-mask and 42 of 148 (28%) during the with-mask breath collection. In the subset for coronavirus (n = 4), we did not detect any virus in respiratory droplets or aerosols from any participants.” Amazing!! If participants didn’t cough, the virus was not detected in exhaled breath, EVEN WHEN NOT WEARING A MASK!! Now, that’s some good science there. If I’m not coughing, I’m not spreading whether wearing a mask or not. Here’s the study (scroll down to the paragraph immediately before the section labeled “Discussion”:

Dan

Dan, thank you.

We Haven’t Talked About Beards in a While

As a man of a hirsute nature who has some readers who are similar, I wanted to point you to a couple of links that may be of interest. The first is a beard clay company (Vainglory Beard Clay, found on the web @ beardclay.com) who was recently put in social media jail for “spreading misinformation” when they shared on their Instagram a link for this product. I was a beta tester for the beard clay as a friend was one of the developers. Having been a longtime user, I can vouch for the quality of the product. I’m now also a proud wearer of the contraband T-shirt and may be looking to purchase one for every day of the week knowing that the intelligentsia don’t like it.

Thanks again for your ministry in Moscow and beyond.

Blessings,

Nate

Nate, thanks very much.

Neither Have We Talked About Molinism in a While

Hello, Pastor Wilson.

I hope this message finds you well. Lately, I’ve been thinking a lot about the relationship between God’s sovereignty and man’s free will and came across Molinism via William Lane Craig. I’m also reading Kenneth Keathly’s book “Salvation and Sovereignty”. What’s your view on Molinism?

Thanks,

David

David, first I would beg your pardon for answering this one briefly. It deserves a book. But here it is in a nutshell. Molinism depends upon God’s knowledge of counterfactuals, i.e. how I would behave in every possible scenario. He then picks the scenario that I actually will inhabit, and ta da. But for the life of me I cannot see how this answers any of the questions that people have about God’s sovereignty. So in my mind is it philosophers writing books full of words.

Nine Miles of Bad Road

What are your thoughts around ostensible conservatives who see the civic utility in voting for a third party candidate (say Jo Jorgensen)? I think there are many card-waving Republicans from the last election cycle and true independents who would say that refusing to vote according along the democratic/republican divide is not any less patriotic and could help inject more innovative policies (drug legalization, more thought out and sobered economic charters related to COVID, etc) into a politically over saturated complex. I know that it’s obviously not without certain trade-offs and is imperfect, but what is your reaction to the larger field of candidates?

Thank you,

B

B, I think that voting third party or writing someone in is an honorable way to proceed. But in our current circumstances, I don’t believe it is an effective way to proceed. I disagree with it, in other words.

In your 9 miles post; who specifically is the “they” that are planning all of this?

Jess

Jess, I don’t believe that there is necessarily a master plan for it, and hence no need for centralized planning (in a conspiracy theory sense). It would be better to ask who I think will be doing all of this. And there the answer would be “the same people who are doing it now.” More specifically, academia, the media, Antifa, BLM, and so on.

Thank you for all you do. I am a frequent visitor to your blog from Spokane. I just read your Wednesday piece “Nine Miles of Bad Road.” Again, you accurately pointed out the real dangers of a Biden Administration (if anyone has any doubts, those really should be dispelled). At the end, you suggested that it would be hypocritical for those who’ve rejected Donald Trump to move to more free states in this Union to avoid persecution because they would be seeking the support of Trump voters. However, isn’t it true that Donald Trump as a man is not the mirror-image of his supporters? In seeking asylum in a state filled to the brim with Trump supporters, a Christian would be seeking help from fellow brothers and sisters in Christ with whom they might disagree on the issue of voting, but they might agree on almost everything else. Trump is not his supporters and they are not Trump. There is no hypocrisy in rejecting Trump but trusting and working with his supporters.

Finally, you have never addressed the risk that Donald Trump may be worse or just as bad as Biden given the no-holds barred nature of a second term (remember, the Clintons attended the man’s wedding). I don’t understand how you are so sure that he won’t be. The simple fact is HE locked down the country, destroying the economy and muzzling the entire population (let us not say he was bullied, he is the President). Nobody in the state governments was bold enough to do it until Trump let the cat out of the bag. Those of us who hesitate to vote for Trump are not a collection of weak-minded prudes who can’t stomach voting for a leader who’s got mud in his past (at least not all of us). We are looking at the issues with caution, appreciating all the facts and not just the bluster, and trying to do what God wants us to do, rather than what men want us to do on either side of this battle. At some point in the long deterioration of this world, there may be a time where Christians must simply drop out of the political game and focus on serving the Lord the best we can with the time we have left.

I would be truly grateful to hear your thoughts on these issues. Especially the last one as I have not heard you address it clearly before.

Thank You,

Luke

Luke, thanks. To your first point, my charge was more inconsistency as opposed to hypocrisy. And I concluded by saying that I thought any such person should be welcomed. That would especially be the case for folks like you you make the distinctions you do between Trump the man and Trump supporters. But there really would be a true inconsistency for someone like David French to flee to Trumpland — because he has been upbraiding all such Christians for their hypocrisy. To your second point, I have addressed it in the past but intend to go into it in more detail in this coming Lord’s Day sermon. In the event of a Trump victory, Christians who have supported him have to be prepared to pivot. Stay tuned.

First you say that voting is not a sacrament, and now this article saying that those who don’t vote for Trump have no right to move to a red state. Seems like you’re passing a lot of judgement on those who may not find a Trump vote palatable. Seems to me you’re treating the vote as a sacrament. Four short years ago, you were laying out your position for not voting for either candidate. Why couldn’t your own words be used against you? Not that much has changed in the difference between a Biden vs Clinton administration.

I am leaving the presidential spot blank as I did four years ago. President Trump has given us Gorsuch and Kavanaugh. I don’t have hopes either would overturn Roe based on their rulings on the court thus far. They have been huge disappointments. I have higher hopes for ACB, but I’ve been let down so many times at this point.

Roger

Roger, see my answer to the previous letter. And if you were to come here after leaving the presidential slot blank, you would be most welcome. My point has to do with consistency, not hypocrisy. Voting really is a tactic, not a sacrament. People who vote third party, or independent, or who write somebody in, are following their conscience, and may God bless it. But I don’t think they are aware of how bad a Biden presidency would be, and I don’t think they are aware of how much more room to maneuver Christians will have under Trump. That’s all. And stay tuned for Sunday’s message.

Singleness as Affliction

I’ve listened to this sermon series twice. If joy and contentment are required of both gifts and afflictions, what is the difference between processing gifts and processing afflictions? I know that lament is biblical and is healthy to process grief, but I don’t understand what the difference is if the end goal is to smile blissfully skyward. How would you counsel someone who has knocked on a shut door for years and is tired of wearing a dent in the door?

First off, I am the first Christian in my family and one of my deepest desires is to see my family redeemed forwards and backward. Also both of my siblings have resolved never to have kids so unless God does something, my family’s epitaph will be “amused themselves to death.” I do not have the gift of celibacy. I came into Christianity at age 21 with a porn addiction and by the grace of God through the Walking Free Ministry in First Baptist Woodstock in GA, I repented at age 25. So I’m 33 now, and I’ve had no success in finding a wife despite my attempts, all the while big name preachers from digital pulpits tell me to get my act together. So I really appreciate that you address the problem as systemic and not just with the men. Not that I’m washing my hands of culpability because I contributed to my affliction with my porn addiction, timidity, and worldly standards I brought in from my pagan days. Up until recently, I couldn’t ask a girl out without “Brace for impact because here comes rejection,” written on my face. But I’m frustrated because I cannot find any like-minded Christian women who want to raise a family. My church is small and oddly has a larger ratio of single men over women, and the women present are focused on careers, whether it be secular jobs or ministry. It would be nice to find out where all the Christian women who lament their singleness to John Piper on his Ask Pastor John podcast are. Also I appreciate you identifying my state as an affliction rather than a gift. I got the gift treatment plenty of times. Finally, there are many things in this world that ought to be but don’t pan out. No one is guaranteed marriage or children in the Bible in this world. The only guarantee I have is Isaiah 56:3-7. What do you say to the people who remain eunuchs? I do not believe marriage and family are going to fix my problems. I want to contribute to the solution instead of the problem; I know caring for a wife and kids is hard, but the good, worthwhile things in this world are difficult. Thank you.

Sincerely,

Anonymous

Anonymous, I am very sorry for your plight. Your situation really is an affliction, and it really is “not just you.” Yours is the kind of circumstance that I was trying to address. The only practical advice I could give is to ask you to consider moving. Find a place where the singles ratios are different than yours, as they are in most places, research it carefully, and move there.

What advice would you give to a 31 year-old single man who struggles with occasional pornography use (once every two months or so) and has been providentially hindered from getting married? As you can imagine, this has been quite frustrating for me in more ways than one. The elders at my church are aware, but interested in your thoughts.

Sam

Sam, from what you describe, I would encourage you to think of your periodic falls as part of your qualification for marriage instead of being a disqualification for marriage.

Sweater Vest Stuff

I watched the Sweater Vest Dialogue in which yourself and James White discussed Catholics, and salvation. Toward the end you spoke a bit about Eastern Orthodox beliefs as well, which sent me down a bit of a rabbit hole. I have a few Protestant friends who have been toying with the idea of Eastern Orthodoxy, and starting to be enticed by it. I was wondering, in your view which system is worse to fall into, and which is more unbiblical: Eastern Orthodoxy or Roman Catholicism? I have always been under the impression that they tend to err in the same general areas, but differ in “flavor,” so to speak. What would you say to a friend who is beginning to go that way, and how might you reel them back? All the best,

ZF

ZF, these things are hard to gauge in the abstract, but if I had to pick which error a loved one was going to fall into, I would much prefer Roman Catholicism. This is because the RCs are Western, and you can argue with them. EO is a mystical fog.

Memory Lane

So by chance I just read your post again of April 3, 2020, “What Trump is Up To Now, Along with Some Other COVID-Ends and Corona-Odds.” Sometimes it’s valuable to review an ongoing situation to examine what we thought about it earlier and see if we can’t validate and correct our thinking accordingly. I was struck by how prescient your points were. I urge you to consider doing a new posting to conduct a review of this one and thereby enlighten everyone. It would be good.

Dave

Dave, thanks. The link is above.

Hellbent Education

By providence—and perseverance thereof—you have been a voice, presence, and influence for the balance of my life. I note this not to lionize or demonize but to contextualize: the community of voices you (personally and institutionally) have long fostered (and continue to) are instrumental, vital—not in personality but by perseverance. And so, to my question: In this week’s entry on Hellbent Education, you casually mention the intentional formation (re-formation) of a school district. This is a rare and notable example (at least currently) of working intelligently within/against vs … any other comparable partisan reaction of the last few hundred years.

Given the long-standing abdication of families, churches, communities, and—consequently—culture at large, what does it mean to literally, legally re-engage? Re-ignite? Local legal specifics aside, what does evaluating, challenging, and redefining a school district look like/entail?

Mark

Mark, the center of any endeavor like this is building a true community of Christians with worship at the center of it all. Preach the Word, in season and out of season. Everything else — education, arts, business, politics — grows out of that. And you have to budget for the dead cats that will be thrown your way.

Thanks for your recent post entitled “Hellbent Education.” I’ve had a discussion with my pastor a few times on the following question, and would really appreciate your thoughts.

You say that “God requires His people to bring up their covenant children in an environment dominated by the Word of God.” Later, after discussing Deut. 6:7, you say we should teach our children these things “all the time”, and the current cultural mess is a result of “disobedience”.

How then do you, as a pastor and church, engage on these things with the ~5% of your families who don’t give their kids a Christian education? If not giving your kids a Christian education is disobedience, does your interaction with members become a discipline issue, and if so, at what point? Do you attempt at keeping “Christian education” from becoming a litmus test fellowship? If so, how do you do that?

Thanks!

Luke

Luke, no, we welcome everybody as is. When we have kids in the government schools, it has frequently been the result of a nasty divorce and a court order. For the rest, the culture of widespread Christian education is the most effective recruiter.

Quick comment on “Hellbent Education” — I know we don’t expect the GOP to save America either, but I have especially noticed in Michigan lately that there is perhaps nothing more bipartisan than bragging that you have somehow found a way to throw even more money at public education. Michigan schools this year had 75% of their funding based on LAST year’s attendance, so the rush to homeschooling would cause minimal damage, with additional bonuses sent to teachers who, in many cases, will never even appear in a classroom. And you won’t hear a peep from the state GOP about how little more money seems to actually raise outcomes, or about how that money comes increasingly from families who have to still pay for some other option for their own children.

David

David, yes. The GOP still thinks that socialism somehow works in education, but not elsewhere apparently.

One Stop Shopping?

I have greatly enjoyed and been helped by your work/ministry; however, your faithful plodding has produced an overwhelming amount of content. Is there one book that best explains your “All of Christ, for All of Life” philosophy?

Thank you!

Kris

Kris, that is a difficult question, but I would probably say Angels in the Architecture.

Plodding On

My wife and I have been tuning into the FLF Theology of Work, but we missed last night’s interview. After reading Ploductivity, we’ve been talking much more about how to plod in our lives. Lately we are working on moving to another state, and this week my evenings are spent laying down flooring for the new place. How fair would the following definition be for plodding? — “connecting a portion of each day’s work to a fuller future goal” As I think about even the small example of, say, a project due Friday, where you plod by spending a good section of time Mon/Tue/Wed/Thu working on it — in that example you get to connect a portion of each day’s work with the primary goal coming later. It seems to me that by working in this fashion, you get to daily see a glimmer of hope in a finished product or service. Helps keep an end glory in sight. Apologize if anything about that was brought up last night, we haven’t watched the recording yet. One of the biggest personal goals I’ve had lately has been to memorize the gospel of John. 2 years in, having a note card of verses tucked into my phone case each day, and behold, I’m working on chapter 11 now. 2 more years of plodding doesn’t seem so daunting. Makes me think about, I dunno, Genesis next. Achievable right around the time we have a few more kids to read bedtime stories to!

Thanks

Alexander

Alexander, yes. I think that is a good way to think of it.

Ride, Sally, Ride

Finished Ride, Sally, Ride today. I was quite surprised at the ending as well. I must admit I was a little disappointed there wasn’t more of a trial, so we could see the fact pushed that if Asahel was a murderer, Steve was a slave owner, domestic abuser, and murderer himself. To offer some criticism, upon finishing it I wished it was a little bit longer in general. Some portions, particularly the last two chapters, felt a bit rushed. Despite that, it made its point well. This was my first foray into Christian fiction in a very long time, and I am pursuing some other titles now (from you and older authors) because I enjoyed it so much. I am personally offended on your behalf by seeing your book slandered in multiple places for being soft-core porn. Nothing in this book came even close to pornographic. Sometimes I think there will be Christians that will be disappointed when there is more catholicity in our future and redeemed home.

Perhaps this would have been too far for the book, but I want to know. Do women vote in Alabama in 2040?

Sincerely,

WD

WD, thanks for the comments. And, to fill in that gap, they can vote, but not many of them do.

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Dr. Ransom
Dr. Ransom
3 years ago

Now I can’t wait for this week’s sermon!

Adagio
Adagio
3 years ago

I think it is likely that we are living in Revelations 20:7-9. Has anyone else come to that conclusion?

-widespread demon possession
-persecution is worldwide and increasing exponentially
-power structures worldwide are all given over to serving the nwo
-islam ascendent (gog and magog?)

JohnM
JohnM
3 years ago
Reply to  Adagio

Interesting take. That would mean the millennium has come and gone? Amillenial view? Not saying that can’t possibly be right, but: – *Is* demon possession more widespread than at times in the past, and if so, what leads to that conclusion? – Is persecution increasing? Worldwide? *Exponentially*? Without further information not saying that is incorrect, but to what/where in particular are you referring? – NWO? Well, for lack a better term, I guess. Progressive ascendancy? Anyway, I get what you’re talking about here. Not sure what it bodes for the long run. – Islam ascendant? Maybe, but it’s relative. Look… Read more »

The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
3 years ago
Reply to  JohnM

JohnM, you said: *Is* demon possession more widespread than at times in the past, and if so, what leads to that conclusion? Have you seen the people at Black Lives Matter and Antifa riots? They burn bibles in Portland. In Boston, they eat bloodied hearts while burning flags (and if you don’t believe me, see the video on Elijah Schaffer’s Twitter feed, 10/29/2020, 1:27am) in bizarre street rituals. Some of them have even taken to going into “seizures” when arrested. They scream profanities in people’s faces. They wantonly assault and batter innocent people. They’ve even gone so far as to… Read more »

C Herrera
C Herrera
3 years ago

Yep. And some BLM leaders have openly talked about their love of witchcraft.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3CiGICPqKk&t=25s&ab_channel=SettingBrushfires

Of course, the MSM and woke “Christian” cat ladies are in denial about this and will respond “But the (practically extinct) white supremacists are the real problem, right?”

JohnM
JohnM
3 years ago

The question wasn’t if there is demonic influence behind the riots that have occurred recently, or even if some of what we are seeing is outright demonic possession. If those were the questions my answer would be “yes” and “might be”. However, the answer could be a definite “yes” and that would not necessarily mean demonic possession is more widespread than in the past, such that it indicates the end of the millennium and the loosing of Satan. Not unless we think there has not been demonic possession in the past, or anything in the past that is like, or… Read more »

Jane
Jane
3 years ago
Reply to  JohnM

Right, “more widespread” involves a baseline comparison. I don’t have a strong opinion either way, but saying that you see a lot doesn’t prove that it’s “more widespread.” Maybe it’s just shifted, maybe it just looks different and was not as noticeable before, etc.

The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
3 years ago
Reply to  JohnM

There have been 120+ days of rioting going on in Portland in 2020. 120+ days. This is unprecedented. For comparison: – The riots in the wake of the 1919 Boston Police Strike lasted about 2 days. – The 1965 Watts riots lasted 7 days. – The 1967 Newark riots lasted 6 days. – The 1967 Detriot riots lasted 5 days. – The 1968 Memphis riots lasted 8 days. – The 1980 Miami riots lasted 4 days. – The 1992 Los Angeles riots lasted 2 days. – The 2014 Ferguson riots lasted 11 days. In terms of cost, according to Claims… Read more »

C Herrera
C Herrera
3 years ago

While I don’t think there’s any “data-driven” way to compare worldwide demonic activity in 2020 vs. some baseline, I agree about the riots. If nothing else, just listen to their chants on live feeds and look at those participating (Andy Ngo’s Twitter as you mentioned). Also, I once responded to a Tweet from a guy who said his AirBnB rental seemed to have Satanic symbols (I agreed with him in my comment). I received hundreds of replies from angry Satanists, some of whom were open Antifa supporters. I’ll grant that most were the alleged atheist variety of Satanists, who claim… Read more »

JohnM
JohnM
3 years ago
Reply to  C Herrera

“I received hundreds of replies from angry Satanists…”

Well, C, that’s what you get for going on social media!

JohnM
JohnM
3 years ago

The “widespread” to be defined here is demonic possession, not riots, and you’re right, you don’t know what meets the definition. Neither do I.

It is not at all making light of the riots to say even if longer running and/or more widespread than any before, they are not the worst manifestation of depravity in history, not even in U.S. history. I can think of plenty of examples that suggest the demonic as much or more than the riots do.

Jane
Jane
3 years ago
Reply to  JohnM

Yes, JohnM’s comment is what I meant. I was referring strictly to things that are obvious manifestations of demonic possession, not those things that could be unassisted manifestations of human depravity. It’s not making light of the extreme degree of evil we’re seeing in current events to question whether this is unprecedented, it’s just keeping in mind the demonstrations history provides of the incredible depths of human depravity.

The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
3 years ago
Reply to  JohnM

Well, JohnM, you may have a point there. There are atrocities that make the riots look like a walk in the park.

Abortion, at 60 million dead and counting since 1973, is the worst manifestation of depravity in the U.S., and is nothing if not demonic.

For the worst manifestation of depravity in history, one need look no further than Communism, a demonic ideology responsible for over 100 million dead in the 20th century.

We Be Libtards
We Be Libtards
3 years ago

So if all infants who die go to heaven, why would Satan instigate and promote abortion? Seems he would be more interested in trying to have the person live until reaching the age of accountability so they would go to hell.

The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
3 years ago
Reply to  We Be Libtards

Well, gee WBL, I don’t know… could it have something to do with the fact that Satan is a murderer from the beginning (John 8:44)? Isn’t that what murderers do — kill people with intent?

C Herrera
C Herrera
3 years ago
Reply to  We Be Libtards

It would say that’s a nice troll job attempt, but I can’t even do that…it’s pathetic on so many levels. If you want to see something absurd, let’s look at one of your libtard pals. A transsexual Muslim Antifa militant who goes to protests w/guns & knives while wearing a burqa. You can’t make this stuff up. I just hope he/she doesn’t try it in Iran.
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1319045873402212352?fbclid=IwAR3R4uwIzJzZAu65TB-GsmvEg4bRU_pm9FF2naqQDd3wrkxHEbKk_7tk6U0

Clay Crouch
Clay Crouch
3 years ago
Reply to  We Be Libtards

WBL,

That’s a very astute observation. Of course, they will have no answer for you. They actually want people to go to hell unless of course, it’s their children, grandchildren, parents, grandparents, or close friends.

According to their voting record, they certainly don’t care about babies after they are born.

demosthenes1d
demosthenes1d
3 years ago
Reply to  JohnM

This whole conversation is awash in recency bias and presentism. Of course the current situation is unique, every time is unique, and we are undergoing a very unpleasant moral revolution. But the idea that we are going through some sort of unprecedented tribulation is nonsense. In the early 1970s there were thousands if domestic bomings in the US, mostly by left wing radical groups. In the late 1960s there were far more deadly riots and racial violence than anything we have seen this year. We had left wing radical seize control of university campuses and physically remove the staff and… Read more »

The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
3 years ago
Reply to  demosthenes1d

Demo, you make a good point except for one thing:

This is the first time I know of in the U.S. that riots have been allowed and tacitly encouraged by government.

That makes a huge difference.

If you have precedent for this sort of thing in the U.S., then I’m all ears.

demosthenes1d
demosthenes1d
3 years ago

Former FP, I agree with you that the anarchy of these situations and the complicity and sometimes encouragement of the elected officials in the unrest is the most troubling part of this summer. I’m afraid there isn’t anyone standing up for order and law-abidingness for it’s own sake (rather than when we agree with the law, or when it forward a different political or policy objective). But this is not a unique situation – we just have to look back a bit. In the Cicero Riots in the 1950s where a mob dismantled the house of a new black resident… Read more »

The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
3 years ago
Reply to  demosthenes1d

Demo, I’m afraid your examples only serve to buttress my point. The Cicero riot of 1951 was met with force when the county sheriff asked Adlai Stevenson, then-governor of Illinois, to send in the National Guard to quell the riot, which he did. The riot wasn’t tolerated by government at the state or county level, and the riot received worldwide condemnation. That riot lasted all of two days. The Tulsa race riot was bad, but it was also put down when the Oklahoma National Guard arrived. To say that police were actively firing on black residents, as if they were… Read more »

Clay Crouch
Clay Crouch
3 years ago

By, “allowed or tacitly encourage by government”, you must be referring to President Donald Trump, de facto leader of the Proud Boys and the Michigan Militia.

But at least when he tear gassed the peaceful protesters in Lafayette Square, he had the decency to hold up the Bible in front St. John’s. A Great Leader if there ever was one.

The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
3 years ago
Reply to  Clay Crouch

Clay, the adults are talking. Now, be a good little boy and run along to your room.

C Herrera
C Herrera
3 years ago
Reply to  Clay Crouch

The Proud Boys, who have done exactly $0 property damage and only showed up to prevent Antifa from attacking police and defenseless people?
https://www.eastonspectator.com/2020/10/02/ann-coulter-on-the-proud-boys-americas-last-line-of-defense-against-the-lefts-fascistic-antifa-storm-troopers/

The “Michigan Militia” turned out to be Antifa types, too, as have the so-called Boogaloo. But your “peaceful protester” terrorist pals have done over $2 billion in damage, killed well over 30 people, ruined multiple cities and terrorized residential areas. Tonight they’re rioting and assaulting innocent people in San Bernardino because Mark Matthew Bender resisted arrest and pulled a gun on a cop. It looks like you have a new patron saint to worship!

C Herrera
C Herrera
3 years ago
Reply to  demosthenes1d

” In the late 1960s there were far more deadly riots and racial violence than anything we have seen this year.” Based on what? There have been well over 30 deaths associated with the riots. There have also been a number of murderous ambushes on cops, including one I knew personally, that received no MSM attention. I’ve seen dozens of mob assaults as well–and I don’t follow this all that closely. That’s not counting a big (but again unreported) surge of black-on-white violence. I’d like to see evidence of the same type of murder/rape/assaults on a 60s college campus that… Read more »

demosthenes1d
demosthenes1d
3 years ago
Reply to  C Herrera

Mr. Hererra, It is very easy to educate yourself about this time. Read days of Rage by Taylor, or at least the excellent post about it on Status 451. In the 8 days after King was assassinated in 1968 at least 43 people were killed in riots. There were over 100 police officers killed by gunfire every year from 1967-1975, so far this year we are in the 30s. Compare the piddly protests at Evergreen state to the militant action taken at Columbia Unviversity or Berkley, or Kent State. You are comparing a toddler throwing temper tantrums to a wayward… Read more »

Brendan
Brendan
3 years ago
Reply to  Adagio

Sounds like any era in human history