Are We Still Talking About Vaccines?
Regarding “The Changing of the Guard”—I say “AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!” I left the church where we had been ministering as lay leaders when the newly minted young 30-something pastor shut down the church and was openly hostile to those who dared suggested this was the wrong approach. It was an affront to his leadership and he demanded that he be obeyed. We left. Heck, I even organized an Easter Sunday sunrise celebration on a local beach in defiance of the insanity.
Fortunately, there are a few pastors in the Seattle area who refused to shut down during all of this nonsense and to whom I am grateful. Cedar Park in Bothel is one such church. They observed the two-week lock down and quickly saw what was going on and refused to bow to the new state emperor.
Keep up the good fight.
Jeff
Jeff, thanks. You too.
Thank you for all you write! Could you please address this extension of the eviction moratorium that the CDC has just unlawfully implemented? I can’t believe there’s not a greater outcry over this! Thank you again for your ministry to the church. Your blog posts and other writings are a huge help to teaching believers today how to think through these things.
God bless you!
John
John, yes. We have slid away from the rule of law, and now have the rule of lawyers, which is quite a different thing.
Vaccines and Nephilim: I have been perplexed that a major question I have regarding the synthesized virus shots (mRNA and adenovirus) has hardly been addressed by anyone. Then I saw your talks about the Nephilim and vaccines back to back. This I have pondered for a year now. So many within theological circles are punting on the shot question, as they insist vaccines have long been accepted by theologians. However, in this case we are dealing with sinister forces within the NIH, CDC, and China who are brewing chimeras using a market of aborted children. If you can bear it see what Fauci and the NIH have done with rat/baby chimeras at U of Pitt. The same is happening in the Wuhan Institute as can be seen in the Times of Israel. These shots are a product of this line of research. And I would argue that these are creating chimeric cells in our own bodies as we force foreign (beast if you will) mRNA or DNA into our cells so that they express both human and virus characteristics. Exactly how much mixing of kinds if any is okay? I think we may have passed a Rubicon moment and I feel like I am alone on an island for even making the connection. Am I completely off here?
And this is not casual pondering, as my family faces destitution soon for our refusal to partake of this concoction. Blessings and please pray for the families around the world being poverty stricken.
Randy
Randy, thanks for the letter. I don’t know that they have done these things. But I do know that a medical establishment that has no fear of God before their eyes will in fact attempt to do such things as soon as they have opportunity.
I am looking forward to reading more from you on moral exemptions for vaccines (Sickly Yellow Custard). I have been rather surprised in the last few weeks to see conservative Christians in my social media feed begin to resist those with moral objections to the COVID vaccine. Here (as an example) is a link to an article written by Roman Catholic scholar Melissa Moschella writing in Pulic Discourse back in January.
I only recently read this article when a Christian friend on social media posted it to urge COVID vaccinations on fellow Christians who had abortion-related objections to the vaccine. You may have already seen this article or others like it, but I wanted to bring it to your attention for “interaction fodder.” Thanks for all you do!
Randall
Randall, thanks for the link.
I have a question regarding the biblical response to risk. The recent COVID panic has highlighted something that has been going on for a while: an abundance of information of the risk/probability of engaging in various activities. There has always been a risk that we would contract some infectious disease when we went to church and transmit it to our loved ones, but that probability had basically been unknown to most people, so the risk (at least in our minds) was acceptable. The COVID panic caused a flood of information, and we found out that there was a certain probability with this disease, which was non-zero. Now we are in a state where unless the probability is zero (which is impossible), then COVID is simply too risky. This type of “zero risk” thinking is playing out in other areas as well. Should I let my kids play football, given the risk of Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy? Should I let my kids play outside, given the risk of abduction? Should I drive across town to play miniature golf, given the risk of dying in my drive to an essentially needless activity? Should I take up wingsuiting, given the risk of rapid deceleration?
I certainly know that when I speak of “probability,” I have fully in mind that God is sovereign and holds all things by the power of His hands. In this age of vast information on risk, how do I count the cost for any activity I do? At what point would I say that something is “too risky”. If the fatality rate of COVID were 50%, would we still meet at church?
I am interested as we are discussing the risk of returning in person to the office. Once again, the risk of catching/transmitting an infectious disease in the office is (as it has always been) non-zero. I am hoping that I can convince my colleagues that a life well-lived always involves *some* risk—but people are so sensitized to risk that it may be hard to get past the psychology of “zeroism” (zero risk).
Thanks!
David
David, thank you, and well put. The thing that people are leaving out of these calculations is the fact that refusing to go somewhere in a car doesn’t remove the risk. As a farmer friend of mine once put it, “People die in bed!” Not only that, but a life filled with fear also entails risk—a pretty high risk of turning out like a person who cowers at everything.
In last week’s letters, you wrote a the following response to Jerry’s idea of “identifying as vaccinated”:
“Sounds great to me. But the issue will come when they demand proof of vaccination.”
Also, the final letter last week was a long one from a missionary (as I myself am) asking for advice on whether or not it was ethical/permissible to get vaccinated due to the necessity of mission-related travel.
Your response was that it was basically a cost-benefit analysis issue . . . but I want to take this one step further and ask something that I know MANY of us must be thinking:
Would you see it as a viable option to get a fake vaccine “passport” or document? Are we in the type of “wartime” scenario where deception is permitted?
With all the misinformation and lies we have been told during this whole ordeal, I would personally answer in the affirmative, and would acquire fake docs tomorrow (today!) if I knew I could do so safely/affordably.
What say you?
Blessings,
Eugene
Eugene, yes. We are certainly at that point in the discussion. In my mind, if we are at the “papers please” phase when you are trying to drive from Washington to Idaho, I don’t have any problem with those papers being as fake as this whole crisis is. But we need to do the exegetical groundwork for this first.
We switched churches in 2021 and we have been blessed with a small, local, reformed body that never closed and recognizes the times we are in. However, should I be concerned that one of the elders is employed by a large recreational and medical cannabis company? I agree with the conclusions you have written about in that it is not the same as alcohol and I am opposed to its legalization. Any advice is always appreciated. Thank you for your hard work,
Rob
Rob, yes that should be an item of concern. If I were you I would take that elder out for coffee, and ask for his thinking on it. Just listen, don’t argue. Then make your decision.
This seems to be what happened shortly after Pentecost with the Sanhedrin. Their authority was challenged by untrained amateurs and they suddenly faced crowds who were a threat. Persecution ensued as they attempted to shut down the apostles and salvage their authority.
Randy
Randy, exactly right.
The Secretary of Defense is expected to soon make the COVID vaccine mandatory for active duty military members.
As a Christian active duty military member, I was curious what Douglas Wilson’s advice would be to me and other like-minded Christians in a similar situation who are also hesitant to take this vaccine that hasn’t been tested long-term.
I appreciate your ministry and any response would be appreciated and thoroughly taken into consideration. Thank you.
Shawn
Shawn, when you are all by yourself, I believe it is largely a cost/benefit question. But I would resist as much as possible, and pray for clear indications that there will be resistance en masse—many service members refusing all at once. If that happened, I would certainly join them.
This question has to do with your views on coronavirus, etc.
I respect a lot of where you are coming from on this.
I’m in my mid-60’s, fairly healthy it seems and have not gotten the coronavirus shot(s) (but my wife has . . . and I am still considering it).
I haven’t gotten the regular flu shot for many years, but at my age I’m considering it.
Pastor Wilson . . . do you normally get the flu shot every year? (. . . and the pneumonia shot?)
Thanks!
Robert
Robert, no, I don’t get those shots every year. But that has not really been thought through. I just never felt the need, and have only had the flu once in all my married life, and that was twenty years or so ago. This vaccine seems a lot more dicey and experimental, and the heavy-handed mandates are appalling.
This position seems to contrast with an earlier post—Have you changed your position or how do you resolve that apparent conflict?
Regards,
Ellen
Ellen, no, I haven’t changed my basic views on this, but the behavior of our governments over the last year and half would make me want to add some additional qualifiers to it. If the Plague broke out in a small town such that half the people died, and half of the remainder were sick, I don’t think it would be tyranny to require the remaining 25% to be vaccinated or to show the presence of antibodies before they came out of that town. But this is not the Plague, what with a 99% survival rate and all, and they are mandating that absolutely everyone comply with their nonsense.
Two Letters That Allege That I am a Perpilocutionist
I spent 2 years suffering in a lab for a master’s of pathology, which seemed fruitless but maybe will help me at least address your recent post “Kicked Out of Hell for Lying.”
I am now a practicing MD in internal medicine and have taken care of hundreds of COVID patients here in the midwest since the advent of COVID.
I ran PCR for my master’s degree. I am familiar with the technique. Your assertion that the clinical tests for COVID-19 are taking in flu results as well is easy to make but I don’t think you understand how well-sourced you would need to be to even begin to make such a claim. There are a lot of lab nerds in this land, who spend idle hours on message boards talking technical details of their protocols, and I am not aware of much talk of issues of flaws in the test. A validated PCR test will generally give the investigator a high degree of confidence in the result. To simply assert double counting and appeal to Occam’s razor is cute but inadequate.
Secondly, as just an ordinary doctor in the hospital, COVID patients tend to have very slow recovery of their lungs, requiring oxygen for days and days. Flu patients seem to generally have faster recovery of their lungs from severe cases in my experience. I really am not sure of the exact statistical data on this, but the pattern of prolonged low oxygen has been striking with COVID diagnosis. Also, for much of my time we have co-tested flu and COVID, so I generally see results of tests for both diseases for patients. I can recall one patient that tested positive for both flu and COVID together. The rest have nearly all tested positive for COVID.
I would recommend retracting your support for this unsupported theory of indistinguishable viral testing.
Thanks,
Grant
Grant, thanks for your letter. Here’s the problem. We are looking at different problems. If you put me in a lab in front of a PCR test, I wouldn’t have any idea which knob to turn. So I am not asking “why did you run the test this way instead of that way?” Rather I am asking, “Where did the flu go?” I am asking a macro question.
There are two issues with your “Mentholatum” hypothetical tale. The first is that you have no evidence whatsoever of scientists acting in that way. You are claiming a massive conspiracy with zero actual evidence of it outside your own prejudices. Second, you have ignored that it would not be just one scientist somewhere hiding the cure, not just one establishment in one country, but require thousands or tens of thousands across the world are collaborate to do so. There are ~8,000,000 scientific researchers in the world, of which hundreds of thousands would be equipped for medical research and tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands are actively researching Covid. That is why 21 different COVID vaccines have already been approved somewhere in the world and another 89 others are developed and still in the testing stage. And a cure is far easier to develop and test than a vaccine is, especially a cure that, as you suggest, is a preexisting compound. If any easily accessible compound cures COVID at a high rate, it wouldn’t just be discovered once somewhere in the bowels of the CDC, it would be discovered many times in many nations and already be getting used effectively at a high rate in at least some of them, just like every other disease cure in human history.
Jon
Jon, it is hard to take this objection seriously when you look at just how politicized this whole thing has become. Are you saying that there is no enforced “line” on what is acceptable for researchers to say?
Sola Fide Is Good
I apologize if this feels too much like digging up bones, but I have a question, burning a hole in my pocket, like the illegitimate child of a mixed metaphor and a failed analogy.
Right out front, I take the charge that you deny sola fide about as seriously as I take Bill DeBlasio’s commitment to “the science”. However, I am hoping that you can clear something up for me. I encountered the assertion that your view of law/gospel amounts to a denial of sola fide, if only implicitly. So I went and read the entire transcript of your examination before your session from some years ago, to see what is what.
I am Reformed, but spent several years in the Missouri Synod, for which I am profoundly grateful. As you might guess, the law/gospel distinction was thoroughly drilled into me there, and it is something I continue to hold. I may have follow up questions, but for now I’ll leave it at this.
I really didn’t understand what you said at all. Would you agree that there are statements in Scripture that tell us what to do, functioning as curb, mirror, and guide, which strictly speaking are “Do this and live”, aka law, and that there are other statements that tell us what Christ has accomplished, which strictly speaking are not commandments to be obeyed, but promises to be believed, aka gospel?
If so do you affirm that those two kinds of statements, again strictly speaking, function essentially like what the Lutherans, and many Reformed folks, call law and gospel?
If not, why not?
Inquisitively,
Andrew
Andrew, yes, I believe that. There are passages that function in a “do this and live” sort of way, and which were intended by God to function in that way. The law drives us to Christ. There are also passages that command us to “hear and believe,” and are framed that way by God, as gospel.
But I also believe the law/gospel divide runs much deeper, and divides the human race into two categories—those with law hearts and those with grace hearts, or, put another way, unregenerate and regenerate. The law hearts hear everything as law, including the gospel, which is why it is the aroma of death to them. The grace hearts hear everything from God as good news, which is why, for them, the law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Confirmation Bias
In these polarized times, I find myself gravitating more consistently to sources of information (books, podcasts, news sources, etc.) that I fundamentally agree with ideologically. Frequently, I find myself reading books from people like, well the proprietor of this here blog and others of his ilk as an example. Which brings me to the purpose of this short little letter.
What practical advice do you have to stay balanced and avoid this type of confirmation bias? Bear in mind, I’m no Jedi Knight and could care less about bringing balance to my intellectual forces so to speak. I’m approaching this inquiry more from the perspective of a dutiful soldier who wants to know his enemies well and their weaknesses to better advance the mission. Any practical tips you can provide other than, to coin a corporate phrase, “just do it?” Do you even see value in reading widely on opposing perspectives? If so, how do you work that in to your daily regimen? Appreciate your response and insight as always.
Bringing imbalance to the Force,
James
James, there are two good reasons for reading stuff from outside our camp. The first is intelligence gathering, finding out what they are up to. I usually do this when I have a need to answer someone. Another reason is that even though we live in polarized times, God’s common grace is still operative, and you can gain useful information. For this last category, I find books from outside our camp to be the most helpful. A recent one I read in that category was Cynical Theories by Lindsay and Pluckrose.
Ah, Plagiarism
On Voddie Plagiarism | Pastor Doug, considering you’re a man who has been accused of plagiarism, what are your thoughts on the accusation, from none other than Joel McDurmon (eye roll), against Voddie plagiarizing in his Fault Lines book?
Trey
Trey, thanks for the question. I don’t take the accusations seriously at all. Kevin Johnson has answered him here, and I didn’t have to read very far.
Reading After the Times Have Changed
Thank you for all you do!
I am a mom of 4 very little kiddos. We read aloud often, and many of the books and poems we read are old. We often encounter words like “gay” or “queer” in our read alouds (used as “happy” or “odd”), as well as multiple other words that were once innocent and normal that have since been sexualized, and are currently used in a vulgar and debased fashion. Should we alter the words when reading these to our kids to avoid having them awkwardly use them without understanding the current context, or would this be conceding to the world’s debasement of these words? I doubt this is the most pressing question in your inbox but I’m really curious to know your thoughts!
Mallory
Mallory, most of the time I would just read, and let the kids figure it out from the context. That’s what kid brains do anyway, linguistically speaking. Sometimes, if the instance is glaring, I would stop and explain.
Turning Purple
In “20% of a Wave” (Wednesday, July 14, 2021) you speak about Moscow turning purple because of the growth of more and more believers challenging the unbelieving status quo. It’s exciting to hear about! (And makes me slightly envious of others that have the chance to move.) But I wonder about two things: 1. Are there any particular professions or businesses that you would like to see more of within the Christian community of Moscow?
2. Have you read the book “Durable Trades: Family-Centered Economies That Have Stood the Test of Time” by Rory Groves and Allan C. Carlson? It seems like the kind of thing that would be useful to Logos/NSA graduates deciding on their life’s work, especially if things in our nation are changing so rapidly. I would love to hear your thoughts.
Wishing for Moscow,
Sonya
Sonya, I am not noticing a particular lack when it comes to various professions or trades. We have all kinds coming. But at the same time, it is kind of a boom town environment, so whatever it is you do, you will likely encounter opportunities. And sorry, I had not heard of Durable Trades.
Emotional Abuse
I have a situation where a man has been accused of emotional abuse, minimizing, denial, and blame shifting. She has been listening to Patrick Doyle and Leslie Vernick and the peaceworks podcast. I’ve listened to a couple things from these guys on emotional abuse, and I don’t think there’s a person on earth who is not guilty of emotional abuse. Sure, there are people who have, and I have seen a couple where the man really was and you could see it outside of the home as well. If you want and get a chance, I’d like to hear what your thoughts are. Don’t put pressure on yourself. I know you have a lot to do.
Thank you for your ministry. I REALLY appreciate it.
Peter
Peter, yes. Emotional abuse is real. The emotional abuse industry is also real. The best thing we can do is to get the biblical principles of real justice down into our bones. See below.
A Justice Primer
A basic introduction to the principles of biblical justice, desperately needed in our time.
A Bright Idea
I was wondering if you (or Canon Press) have any future plans for a study bible (one that is covenantal, postmill, and presup)? It would be a great tool for reformation, like the Scofield study bible but with a positive cultural influence. Anyway, thanks for all the faithful work your doing!
Scott
Scott, thanks. Fun idea.
The Occult Connection
I enjoy the blog very much. Regarding your book of the month recommendation for August:
I haven’t read the book, and so can’t comment on its specific contents, but I immersed myself in a study of the Nephilim about 10 years ago, so I’m fairly fluent with the subject matter. I too hold to a supernatural view of their origin.
My question has to do with your comment that “It is an important issue for us in our time.”
Some of the fringier elements that teach on this subject insist that there is a connection between the Nephilim and the modern day UFO phenomenon. Further, they also suggest that “alien disclosure” (always just around the corner) will be part of the great delusion of the last days.
When you say this topic has relevance for our time, do you have those sorts of things in mind?
Seth
Seth, I do believe that there is a connection between UFO reports (abductions, not sightings) and the occult. When things like automatic writing appear in both places, it makes you go huh. But with that said, my comment was directed more at what I think scientists are going to attempt through genetic engineering. And for those who have read That Hideous Strength, at some point that kind of thing converges with the occult.
A Hard Spot
A is the client of B. C provides a key component that is necessary for B to serve A. But C, whether through laziness or mismanagement or some other folly, is consyantly creating delay for B which in turn causes difficulties in the relationship with A. A is aware that C is the problem, but it is on the shoulders of B to manage the relationship with C. B can’t “crack the whip” because they have no direct oversight over C. Nor is there any chance of parting ways with C, because C provides too important a piece of the puzzle. They have managed, as many incompetent or foolish people do, to get themselves in a position where they have all the leverage. Furthermore, much money is wasted because of C. I’m crying out for wisdom here. I’m sure these sorts of triangles are common in the business world and to me, the main answer is to foresee and avoid these relationships in the first place. But, given that someone is stuck in such a business relationship, is there a way that B can “answer a fool according to his folly” or otherwise walk wisely in regards to C?
DS
DS, on paper I see only two options, and those would be for B to sell and leave the whole thing behind, or for B to buy out C. Otherwise you just have to stagger further down the same road.
Heard of This?
I’m a Canon subscriber and I’m currently reading Empires of Dirt. It is very timely and interesting. It reminds me of The Book That Made your World by Vishal Mangalwadi. What is your opinion Dr. Mangalwadi’s work?
Andrew
Andrew, very sorry. I am unfamiliar with Dr. Mangalwadi.
And Even More Ignorance
What are your thoughts on Ken Burns extensive “Civil War” documentary? Would you recommend it? What are your top three related book recommendations? Thank you.
KH
KH, sorry. I can’t say anything one way or the other about Burns. I just haven’t seen it. For books on the Civil War, I would recommend Genovese’s A Consuming Fire, Noll’s The Civil War as Theological Crisis, and Dabney’s A Defense of Virginia.
Welcome
A friend of mine referred me to your blog and suggested that my common complaints were very similar to your message. I have to say he was correct. It’s almost as if I’m complaining about a current event and your next blog post addresses it. Strangely enough my family are planning to move to Troy within the next year and my friend having no real clue of where in Idaho we are headed, ends up finding us a church. With that said I am thanking you for all you do with a purchase of a couple mugs.
Thank you,
Jeff
Jeff, thanks, and we look forward to welcoming you. For you bystanders, Troy is a small town just eleven miles from Moscow.
Thanks from Ol’ Kentuck
I am a resident of the beautiful commonwealth of Kentucky. I in the past few months have become a huge fan of yours and have enjoyed the work that our gracious Lord has sovereignly ordained for you. I have become more and more opened to the idea of the post-mil position. I am a liturgically driven, Southern Baptist, confessionally reformed, and a wilsonite attending The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. To say this is a weird time in life is to underplay it much . . . I just want to say thank you, for myself and many other young reformed men fighting the progressive culture of woke liberalism in society and in our churches, you and many others, including Apologia, have been such a breath of fresh air giving us stamina by God’s grace to preserve and conquer the world with the gospel . . . Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
SG
SG, thanks for the many kind words. But if I might suggest that you lose the label wilsonite. We all have enough trouble as it is, and you don’t need to be saddled with something like that.
Doug said, “We have slid away from the rule of law, and now have the rule of lawyers…”
It’s not even that anymore. We have rule by Experts, with advanced degrees in Expertology. They are often wrong, never in doubt.
Re: vaccine mandates for work: You can either find like-minded co-workers – preferably ones without whom operations will come to screeching halt – and let the management know that you will all leave if the not-vax is mandated. Other people have had good success with this already. Considering the current difficulties that employer are having filling positions, one the most foolish will insist. You can also tell people that you can’t get the not-vax because you are in the control group for the human trials, and how dare they ruin the experiment by insisting that the control group be contaminated… Read more »
and in concurrence, I do not think it is about “Trust the Science®”. At least for me, it is about trusting the functionaries of the institutions. Comey was the director of the “most prestigious law enforcement agency in the world”. HRC was the Secretary of State. Mengele was a scientist. An orchestra is not a conspiracy, but they all work together based upon common presumptions to obtain an agreed upon result. One does not have to be a conspiracy theorist to understand the brew that is created when the ingredients are ignorance, stupidity and naivete stirred by evil. I think… Read more »
That suggests some limited # of “functionaries” have control. Places like the CDC and WHO make recommendations, but tens of thousands of scientists with no relationship to those institutions are working on these issues. Claiming you don’t trust the vaccines (or mask research, death rates, etc.) because you don’t trust Fauci is like saying that you don’t trust the Bible because you don’t like the guy who headed the committee that developed the NIV.
“because you don’t trust Fauci is like saying that you don’t trust the Bible because you don’t like the guy who headed the committee that developed the NIV.”
No, its more like saying I don’t trust the pastor because his daughter is a hooker and his son is a made man in organized crime.
You misunderstood the analogy. The point is that Fauci, whatever you may think of him, is one beurocrat among thousands if scientists and bureaucrats and administrator and researchers and frontline doctors. If you think Fauci is like a pastor whose daughter is a hooker and whose son is a mobster, fine – don’t trust him (though those are serious charges and shouldn’t be made lightly). But that doesn’t/shouldn’t mean you throw out what all of the other thousands of doctors, scientists, researchers, and, yes, bureaucrats are saying. To do so is some sort of transitive genetic fallacy. Also, an orchestra… Read more »
An orchestra is not a conspiracy simply because it isn’t a secret.
That’s also the case with much of our corruption these days.
Nathan,
Of course. In legal terms a conspiracy is a secret plan to take illegal action. But in the logic of the analogy it is a conspiracy, rather than spontaneous organization. Every member of the orchestra is working according to a common, well defined, thoroughly rehersed plan; rather than all following the same basic incentives or whatever.
If they’re professionals, then they are following the same basic incentive: Money.
This is going to be an immediate issue for people living and/or working in Los Angeles. The City Council voted 13-0 today to require at least one shot for access to public indoor spaces. The lawyers will be drawing up an ordinance and the council will be given it to approve. From what I have read, grocery and drug stores might be exempt but not most other kinds of retail stores..
Jill, from the stories I’ve read, LA won’t include grocery or pharmacies. We’ll see what the actual black and white text reads on the next council meeting.
For sure, it is a time for Christians to pray and to resist tyranny as best they can. May God continue to bless you and to protect you and the other Christians in the LA basin.
KH, I thought Ken Burns documentary on the civil War was well done as was his documentary on baseball and jazz. It is not the be all and end all, but definitely worth watching. If you can find it, Robert McNeil produced a documentary of the English language that I really enjoyed from the eighties, The Story of English.
I also thought Ken Burns’s Civil War documentary was good (taken with a grain of salt and not being an expert in it, but being a little familiar with Christian perspectives and the character of Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, R.L. Dabney, etc.)….. The Baseball documentary, I had high hopes for but it is like half about racism in baseball, and I got sick of the (presumably liberal) intellectuals with all their (seemingly pompous) commentary. (but it might just be me).
Robert,
Re. Ken Berns “Baseball:”
That is just the way I saw it also. Really good overall, but the ax-grinding got a little tedious.
Is some truth to that
Ken Burns’ Civil War documentary is the best I have seen (and believe me, i have looked) and the best we will get for a long time. It is quite balanced on questions of slavery, sovereignty, popular sentiment, etc. But i think it is largely viewed as terribly regressive now, especially for giving Shelby Foote a lot of screen time and letting him exposit a lite version of the Lost Cause. If you look around I’m sure you can find articles criticising it for being insufficiently woke. But it really is nuanced and does a pretty good job with the… Read more »
Funny thing about that is, back when the Burns documentary was ready to be aired the first time Confederate apologists complained that it was slanted against their side. I think any version of the lost cause expounded by Foote is a lite version indeed, Foote is too good a historian to be a mere propagandist. In fact, Foote’s – The Civil War: A Narrative would be one answer to KH’s question, though it’s books (three volumes) not book.
I definitely agree. I’m fond of Foote, and I think he is insightful and mostly fair. His “Lost Cause Lite” (which you’re right, is very light) is exemplified by this quote from the program: “The North fought the war with one hand tied behind their back. If there had been more southern victories, and i mean a lot more, i think that the North would have just took that other arm out from behind their back. I don’t think that the South had any chance to win that war.” Ideologues from both directions don’t like the documentary, which is a… Read more »
Demo, JohnM and you should read War Crimes Against Southern Civilians by Cisco.
The North used both hands looting the entire South.
It is a good read and shows another side to the Civil War that isn’t brought up very often.
Dave, I know this history quite well, and there was a lot of rape, murder, looting etc. by invading trooops. But compared with the typical invading army the Uniom behaved like absolute gentlemen. Even “War Is Hell” Sherman kept a tight rein on his troops. There was no northern atrocity that rose to the level of Andersonville, which primarily happened because the south refused to treat black union soldiers as POWs. The most atrocity ridden portions of the war were where it was fought mostly by irregulars. The Redleggers under Lane and Jennison were responsible for untold suffering in Missouri,… Read more »
For the other readers who aren’t up on Civil War history, I still recommend War Crimes Against Southern Civilians by Cisco. Missouri was full of renegades and is a story unto itself. In the remainder of the South, after the shooting was done, the Union Army troops dismantled entire factories throughout the South and shipped them home. They either took all the livestock or killed the animals. They burned as much of the grain storage as they could. They even took the time to shoot southerners, regardless of color, if any objections were raised to their gentlemanly activity. It’s a… Read more »
I have no doubt that many war crimes were committed. Every war is full of them, it’s virtually a guaranteed outcome when you choose to start a war, and one (of many) reasons that our Savior argued against Christians taking the sword. Both southern-apologists and northern-apologists too often try to sanctify their war efforts, when in fact there was a great, great deal of suffering. I wish the South had never attacked Fort Sumter, and I wish the North had found a better way to respond than with such violence. Sadly, before the war even started there was already a… Read more »
Jonathan, Jesus did not argue against righteous use of the sword.
Just how did your home church use non-violent means of resisting the SARS CoV-2 government closures. Did your home church fold up and go home? Or did they follow scripture and worship in person, sitting next to each other as before, singing and worshiping?
“All who live by the sword will die by the sword” sounds quite universal and the most prominent early Church fathers interpreted it as such. If Peter’s defense of our Lord against murderous government officials wasn’t a righteous use, what could be? Not to mention the commands to love our enemies, turn the other cheek, and not take vengeance into our own hands.
But I’ll stop there – we just had this debate last week and it isn’t going to go anywhere new this week.
Jonathan, did your home church fold up and go home? Or did they follow universal scripture and worship in person, sitting next to each other as before, singing and worshiping?
What say you to universal scripture commanding us to not forsake worshiping together with all the saints?
“Then Elijah said to them, “Seize the prophets of Baal; do not let one of them escape.” So they seized them; and Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon, and slaughtered them there.” 1 Kings 18:40
Thanks for this take on the Civil War documentary.
The fact that it would be criticized in our modern culture makes me want to see it again all the more!
Thanks a lot for answering my question about the flu vaccine, etc., pastor Wilson!
I am just here with a bag of popcorn waiting for Jonathan to blow up the comment thread.
Your wait was not in vain! ;-)
(Though I am not he)
We really dont need a “JohnM” and a “John M.” And two Jonathans. What happened to American creativity!
Hey, JohnM has seniority, even if John M is no doubt better looking – low bar there, you know.
Despite the fact that you are a teetotaling baptist neoliberal, you will always be my favorite JohnM. Seriously, you provide an excellent light:heat ratio.
I doubt it. I have been reading Doug consistently since 2005 at the latest (full disclosure, I’m a former parishioner). I don’t know for sure when JohnM came on, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was more than a decade ago!
Only if you’ve been going by the same moniker the whole time, and you’re at least a sexagenarian.
@Jon who starts: “There are two issues with your “Mentholatum” hypothetical tale.” Jon, the part you aren’t including in your analysis of the situation is that Pfizer and the other pharmacy companies have MANDATED in every contract with every nation that the nation MAY NOT permit any alternative cure to be brought forward, or cancel the contract. There has been a complete from-the-top controlled shutdown of helpful medicines worldwide. Almost every country has signed on to these (on their face unlawful in the Biblical sense) contracts. This whole orchestrated event, aside from taking out Trump, was designed to push these… Read more »
The contracts certainly do not prevent alternate cures from being brought forward and that suggestion is ridiculous. How would you even enforce that? After signing the Pfizer contract did the US government secretly send a message to every medical researcher and doctor in the country stating that they couldn’t research cures? And none complained? Since researchers continue to publicly investigate cures…are they just faking it for appearances?
“Since researchers continue to publicly investigate cures…are they just faking it for appearances?”
They would certainly have no issue doing so. It’s no secret that these fields are tightly controlled by people with agendas.
Remember: You will be kicked out of almost any scientific field simply for suggesting that Evolution might not be true.
As Demo said, because careful to think of exactly what you’re accusing all these people of. You’re suggesting that thousands of Americans across the country are allowing hundreds of thousands of Americans to die by pretending to seek better treatment for Covid without really doing so. And not ONE is willing to expose the secret and obviously illegal orders they got from the government to not seek the best treatment.
History shows us that tyrannical governments have no qualms about killing their own. Millions of their own. In America, there have been numerous medical experiments on certain groups that were kept secret for decades. Uncle Sam does such experiments on military members and keeps quiet about it. Money and power talk to those who are not rooted and grounded in Christ. If SARS CoV-2 and variants were as deadly as our government and the media want us to think, the borders would be closed. Travelers would be quarantined until proven they were healthy. Illegals would be quarantined at the border,… Read more »
We’re not talking about tyrannical governments. We’re talking about tens of thousands of regular men and women who work as doctors and researchers and scientists all around you, many of whom don’t even work for the government at all, and hundreds of thousands more across every nation on Earth.
Jonathan, take a look at Justice.gov sometime and observe just how many regular men and women steal from the taxpayers. One doctor, in one small hospital, in one small town stole over 1 million bucks. That’s just one small part of what goes on. In my town, the county, the city and the universities all employ grant writers to obtain as much money as they can for any possible grant. They will sell their souls to get the grant money. Our government is tyrannical. Just look at the CARES money that is thrown at hospitals, doctors, clinics and other health… Read more »
Did you take the stimulus $$ or did you return them to the US Treasury?
Jim, if the US Treasury were to send me some of the money they stole from me, I would be happy to accept.
That being said, I am retired and the CARES Act didn’t care about me.
The CARES Act had nothing to do with the stimulus checks that were sent to individuals and married couples. Did you or did you not receive those checks?
Jim, I’m not sure what you are driving at. The CARES acts of 2020 and the American Rescue Plan Act of 2021 addressed our taxes and the stimulus payments — Economic Impact Payments. https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/748 https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/1319/related-bills Did you get such bucks? Uncle doesn’t hand out cash to American citizens without having a law to back it up. Illegals are another matter, but they are covered under illegal immigration and Social Security laws. Again, Uncle neither CAREd nor Rescued me with lavish amounts of dough. I did get corrected on my taxes because of not being able to see my tax guru… Read more »
Never mind. I thought I was conversing with someone who knew what they were talking about. Have a nice day.
You are welcome Jim. Read the text of the CARES Acts and the American Rescue Plan Act and you will find where the authority, the law, which sent out the stimulus checks.
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/reuters-fact-check-covid-social-media-pfizer-world-economic-forum/
Have you also read this?
Pastor Wilson, a major flaw I’ve seen in many Americans’ thinking about Covid is that they seem to think everything happens only in America. Who do you think is going to draw this “line” you speak of that keeps all 8 million of the world’s scientists in order? You ignore the fact that there are 195 nations on Earth and many scientists in many of these nations are not under the absolute control of the government.
The idea that frontline doctors and researchers won’t use cheap, available medication because of an information conspiracy, or because of pressure from big pharma (or because of a giant human genetic engineering project, I guess…) doesn’t pass the smell test. I’m as willing as anyone to say that hydroxychloroquine was overly politicized and that it was mostly the fault of the media and there was a good bit of Orange Man Bad going on. But dozens of studies continued and it turns out it really doesn’t work. Ivermectin has been studied into the ground. There are hundreds of papers, and… Read more »
Be fair in both directions, Demo. Hydroxychloroquine was handled with copious amounts of maliciousness, lying and bad faith.
You’re asking us to trust thousands of people whose names we do not know, whose work is mediated to us through institutions that are awfully wobbly and piloted by some we know are monstrous liars.
Surely our situation is smack dab between peachy-keen and four horsemen of the apocalypse.
I’m not asking you to trust anyone in particular. I’m asking you to believe that a significant subset of doctors and researchers won’t allow tens or hundreds of thousands of people to die because they hate Trump, or because they want to pad the profits of big-pharma. If hydroxychloroquine was a highly effective covid treatment it would be in use right now. I certainly agree that we have real problems (and always have had) but most doctors and researchers really do want to heal people, and they are more than happy to use a $10 med like dexamethasone to do… Read more »
I just want to point out that the trust you’re asking for is a bigger request than your comments make it out to be. The visible parts of the institutions are untrustworthy, but you’re asking us all to count on the invisible parts. Evidently the invisible parts can’t keep the visible parts on the level. Maybe, if this pandemic is life and death, they shouldn’t have chosen this exact moment to lie to us. Maybe if they really believe this virus justifies the grandest abridgment of civil rights in US history, they shouldn’t have also twisted it to take out… Read more »
When you say “the visible part of the institutions” what institutions are you talking about? I feel like we are comparing apples to oranges.
Also, when you say “to lie to us” what exactly are you refering to? I will just be talking past you if i don’t know exactly who you are referring to.
The institutions I’m talking about are media, government, medicine and science. Forgive me for not explicitly stating this: most people have no connection with the thousands of doctors or researchers you’re asking us to rely on. My interaction with them comes mediated almost entirely through media. What do scientists say? I ask Google. Lies? masks. The surgeon general lied when he said they don’t work for regular people. The medical establishment lied again when they said we need to wear them to shut down COVID. Lies? HCQ is dangerous. “Two weeks to flatten the curve” clearly became a lie, if… Read more »
Nathan James, I’ve seen a general inconsistency between how people characterize errors (or perceived errors) by scientists and researchers vs. how they characterize errors by those they view as on their own “side”. You seem to be calling scientists/doctors in general liars because a few made some remarks in error, or at least were unclear. Yet on this very blog just in the last year I’ve seen Pastor Wilson alone make scores of false statements in regard to both Covid and the election. By your standard, wouldn’t that make Pastor Wilson far more untrustworthy than any scientist? And wouldn’t that… Read more »
Jonathan, the difference is that the so-called “errors” made by those on “their side” are repeatedly shown to be intentional and malicious. Judging from their own worldview, and the policies they support (abortion, etc.) we know they do not have people’s best interests in mind. Switch to people like Douglas Wilson, who are fellow Christians and place their faith in God and duty toward him first, and place Christ at the center of all and weigh all things according to the law of God, it is easy to see why we trust them and not the so-called “experts.” If you… Read more »
I have a hard time seeing the list Nathan James made as examples of “intentional and malicious” lies. It seems even more difficult to claim those statements were MORE intentional and malicious than, say, falsehoods about the election.
and which “falsehoods” are you speaking of? Because most of them came from only one direction, on our left…
If you mean to say that the election was completely legitimate, I’m sorry to say I can’t take the convo in that direction, it would take far too much time.
Gentle readers, apparently, the experiments conducted on Tuskegee blacks were not intentional or malicious.
Of course, the current run of using murdered baby parts for any type of experiment under the sun is OK because the doctors and scientists are not involved in falsehoods and they are working for the health and safety of everyone. Everyone except the murdered babies that is.
You wrote:
When it comes down to it, I would not trust any scientist with trying to save multitudes of lives who
a) approves of abortion
b) believes mankind evolved from apes via natural processes
c) is spoken of well by the mainstream media
I would suggest that you take a more nuanced view of the world. People you would consider to be good do bad things, too. Doug Wilson has said, done, and written some horrible things. I’m sure he has done some good things, too.
Nathan, I think there is a conflation here between heirarchical reified institutions like the CDC or the FDA and inchoate, disaggregated, competitive, multipolar “institutions” like science and medicine. I certainly agree that the polarization of HCQ was absurd, but it didn’t stop doctors and researchers from studying it and using it. Google scholar shows over 3,000 papers (not all of these are studies) on HCQ since 2020 many of which are lookinh at covid and many from just the last few weeks. MedRxiv (a preprint server) also has hundreds. There is no silencing campaign going on. The same thing for… Read more »
You’re pretty stubbornly missing the single point I’m making. The common man experiences the scientists only through mediating institutions like news media and the public consumption output of “reified institutions” like the CDC. You’re confident that real science is proceeding apace on the backend and only the user interface is acting up. Maybe so. Probably so. But the common man has little reason to count on it, since real science is clearly not driving the things he interacts with and observes.
Nathan, I understand your point, it is just orthogonal to the one I am making. I agree that we are now a low trust society and that people don’t trust most outward facing messaging organizations for good reasons (though the reasons are sometimes exaggerated). However, what i don’t understand is why a lack of trust in one set of institutions leads us to absurd credulousness toward other, completely unvetted institutions. I can’t tell you how many people who have 0 trust in the MSM sent me the “Plandemic” film with glowing reviews. Or sent me frankly stupid election fraud articles… Read more »
What you don’t understand is more connected with my point than you think. I’m glad you understand what I’ve been saying. In a way, believing any random dude that pops up with a plausible story is the only possible outcome of trusted institutions destroying their own credibility. You are only distressed because your idea of plausible differs from mine, and his and hers and theirs. You want us to rest assured that we would find out if the CDC was hellbent on world domination, or the vaccine was a mass murder weapon, or HCQ is a miracle drug. I’m sure… Read more »
“In a way, believing any random dude that pops up with a plausible story is the only possible outcome of trusted institutions destroying their own credibility.” I get what you are saying here, but the mechanics are mysterious to me. I don’t follow the stock market closely; if a stranger comes up and tells me Ford stock is going to $45 next week, my ignorance would not implore me to believe him… Another thing that sticks out is how much the conspiracy peddlers rely on the same expertise granting institutions, titles, etc. Note that “Plandemic” featured Judy Mikovits and went… Read more »
I hope it’s been helpful. I think it’s a fruitful line of inquiry, and obviously, topical.
“We’re much more adrift than you’ve yet to realize when it comes to knowing what’s going on in the world.”
I assume you are speaking for yourself and your tribe. Maybe you being adrift is no accident. Maybe, just maybe, it might be due to the conspiracy websites, and pastors in the pulpits you’ve been listening to. Think about it.
Sigh. I’m glad you liked the quote. Wish you’d have read the thread.
Sigh. I did. Thus the comment.
Nathan James, on HCQ, let’s pretend for a moment that you can’t trust any of the numerous studies or researchers in America or other western countries who have found that it doesn’t work because they’re all too “politicized”. (Though it usually seems to me that the HCQ proponents are much more politicized than your average doctor.) Let’s instead look to other nations. Bolsonaro, the president of Brazil, was a massive proponent of HCQ. He spoke positively about it regularly and used government funds to buy and distribute large amounts of it. Yet studies collaborated on by hundreds of Brazilian doctors… Read more »
Which is all beside the point. It’s irrelevant to lie about HCQ, which is the claim that it was dangerous.
Randy – it may disturb you to know that every virus you’ve ever had injected genetic material into your cells. So the “mixing of kinds” you feared has already happened before any scientists got involved. What the mRNA vaccine does is simply a very limited replica of what every virus is already doing. The comforting part is that the vaccine does not go into your nucleus and thus does not change your own DNA, so you don’t have to worry about being “changed” in that respect. Though some viruses including HPV do change your DNA, so I guess victims of… Read more »
Pastor Wilson – you wonder where the flu went? Almost all the schools were shut down, millions of people started working from home, major crowd events were cancelled, most people spent most of their time social distancing and wearing masks in public, and a record number of flu vaccinations were given. It would have been shocking if that didn’t result in severely depressed flu numbers.
Covid numbers were likely depressed as well, but unfortunately Covid spreads much more easily than the flu and thus it wasn’t knocked back to the same degree.
And for clarification, at least 1,081,671 Americans were tested for flu in the 2020-21 flu season across all clinical labs and public health labs, of which 1,899 tested positive. At no point in the year did more than 0.4% of samples test positive for influenza (in a normal year it reaches 25-30%). As Grant and I point out, it would seem incredibly difficult to cover up the massive conspiracy necessary to fake those numbers.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/weeklyarchives2020-2021/week20.htm
The point is not so much that “they did do this” but that the current establishment would have absolutely no issue doing it if they so wished. We have seen so many, many cases of deaths labelled as due to Covid that obviously were not, and many places are eager to report as many cases as possible for political reasons, i.e. fear-mongering and control. Also, if it has been shown that masks are largely ineffective, it is difficult to believe that the taken measures (even ones that much of the populace refused to follow) really decreased the flu cases by… Read more »
When we’re discussing how we as individuals and churches should respond in the most loving way for our families, neighbors, and congregations, then being accurate about what happened is more important than hypothetical speculation about what “could” happen.
I have no idea how you think “they” would have been able to falsify the results of over a million flu tests spread out over clinical labs and public health labs across the country, or make up over 900,000 extra false death certificates reported by local coroners spread out over every county in every state.
Corporate worship, all the saints gathered together, is commanded by scripture. We are to gather in church instead of small groups at home. That is not my thought, but is scripture. Worship is warfare. There is no doubt that the war is on against Christians and the most obvious non-violent means of resisting the overreach of our government is to worship together. Those who need to take precautions should take them. But the healthy should meet together, praising God, singing Psalms and hymns. That is loving your neighbor. Jonathan, just what did your home church in the States do? Did… Read more »
Agreed. This “I’m not saying they did it, but isn’t it just the type of thing THEY would do?” Is an open door to believing anything you want. It us the exact opposite of epistemic rigor. Run away from this kind of thinking. Discipline yourself to clarity, perspicacity, and precision.
I’m not saying that the Clintons murdered Epstein, but isn’t it just the type of thing THEY would do?
And masks are helpful to reducing flu transmission, but they are just a tiny part – strong social distancing with people purposely spending less time indoors together is likely a bigger effect. And research from before Covid even started showed that flu transmits much less over school holidays than it does when school is in session – wouldn’t an 8-month holiday have a huge effect on how many kids transmit to each other and then to their individual families? Not to mention the millions of people who started working from home, the cancellation of almost all big-crowd events, the cancellation… Read more »
Jonathan: “And masks are helpful to reducing flu transmission…” Only in your COVID-addled brain. Just about every study ever done on the subject says otherwise. Apparently, masks also can’t protect against misinformation. Jonathan: “…strong social distancing…” Spoken like a true cultist. There is no science behind “social distancing”, unless, like Fauci, you think Fauci is science and science is Fauci. Jonathan: “…with people purposely spending less time indoors together is likely a bigger effect.” Congratulations. You just argued against lockdowns — which you’ve been pushing for quite some time now. You’ve done Anthony “There’s no reason to be walking around… Read more »
First off, FP, are you denying that flu cases declined across the entire world in 2020-21? Are you deny the results of over a million lab tests for flu in American clinical labs and public health labs across the country? Because they show quite explicitly that flu was reduced. Do you have an alternate explanation behind how so many labs in so many different countries are showing less flu this year? Secondly, saying that there is no science behind social distancing is ridiculous. Less time near other people, especially indoors, leads to less illness. Someone 100 feet from you is… Read more »
Yup, that’s some real science there, confusing correlation with causation. Flu numbers are down, therefore masks work! Assuming flu numbers are actually down, there are lots of alternate explanations, not the least of which is that the numbers are being cooked. But you don’t want to hear alternate explanations, because cult members typically can’t deal with anything outside the narrow confines of their precious narrative. And no, there is no science behind “social distancing”. What’s ridiculous is you believing the 6-foot rule adopted by the CDC is anything other than a random number they pulled from their rear ends. If… Read more »
Over 1 million flu tests were performed by clinical labs and public health labs across the country, not to mention that flu is down substantially across the world as well. As Demo pointed out to you, claiming that they are ALL cooking the flu numbers defies reason. How did they even orchestrate that without a single leak? No, I did not confuse correlation with causation and I’m not even sure which study you’re accusing of that. I already pointed out to you that social distancing is obviously effective. The exact distances that are most effective are certainly debatable, but “more… Read more »
Typical Jonathan: When you can’t refute, repeat. You do Goebbels proud.
The following guides my choice of phrases about you: 1 John 4:1; 2 Cor 11:13-15; 2 Peter 2:1; 2 Tim 4:3-4; 1 Tim 6:3-5, etc.
Flu was down before masks were implemented: https://ianmsc.substack.com/p/the-magic-of-masks
Correlation and causation can be hard, but when one comes before the other…
That’s one guy’s look at one study. That’s hardly conclusive evidence that masks don’t work in limiting the spread of the flu. If you tried, you could probably find at least a half dozen studies that indicate otherwise.
eaci, your link has nothing to do with the 2020/2021 flu season. It refers to the decline of flu in March of 2020, when the flu season ended just as it ends around that time every year. It’s a very strange post because it’s taking the arguments for why there wasn’t a flu season at all in 20/21 and applying them to a completely different situation, where flu declined just as it does every year for a completely different reason.
Hello, I have 3 unsarcastic, serious questions, please, I hope might be addressed by anybody.. 1) If masks are effective for minimizing the spread of Covid, why weren’t they ever used widespread for minimizing the spread of regular Flu? 2) How much less likely are the vaccinated to spread Covid than the unvaccinated.are to spread it. 3) Is any reduction in the vaccinated to spread Covid than the unvaccinated… the same reduction of Flu vaccinated people spreading the Flu? (this question is because I don’t ever remember “protecting others” used as a motivation for everyone to get the flu shot).… Read more »
Robert, unsarcastic questions deserve unsarcastic answers! 1) Studies have generally shown that unfitted, low efficiency masks supress transmission by 5-30%. Often more poorly than at as per design studies, because people rarely use them per protocol (meaning they don’t wear them well). So they are epidemiologically helpful, but aren’t some kind if super intervention. Also, we have generally had a level of comforte with the risk of seasonal flu and havent corporately taken extreme measures for prevention. Right or wrong, our corporate institutions decided the risk from covid was enough higher to warrant much more intervention. Also, especially since SARS,… Read more »
Fraternally, regarding your final point, I do not endorse “railing”, instead supporting admonishment. I think that it is always important to correctly understand the “authority over us”. I am confident you know, In The United States of America, the Constitution is Caesar, not government officials. The government’s authority stops at its Constitutional limit, at both federal and state levels. And that includes when one branch of constitutionally formed government decides, sua sponte, that it is the sole arbiter of what is (or is not) constitutional. The dual facts that the Judicial branch has engaged in usurpation, and the legislative branch… Read more »
Gray, I get what you are saying. And i certainly think there are times to admonish government officials and politicians and require them to uphold the duties and limitations of their office. Though the best way to do that is through the generously provided process, rather than through polemics on twitter. But I don’t think an appeal to the constitution works as well as you think. For one thing, who is providing the interpretation? You? That just means you are doing right in your own eyes with no king in the land. This is why the doctrine of lesser magistrates… Read more »
These are good points, but in our society the constitution is still above our “kings” and thus we can freely obey Paul and Peter’s admonishment while disobeying certain dictates of our totalitarian leaders. The command not to meet in person to worship is certainly one such dictate. And remember that death is not the thing Christians are to fear.
Demo, 1) Studies haven’t even shown that much. A short review of the medical literature: – Jacobs, J. L. et al. (2009) “Use of surgical face masks to reduce the incidence of the common cold among health care workers in Japan: A randomized controlled trial,” American Journal of Infection Control, Volume 37, Issue 5, 417 — 419: N95-masked health-care workers (HCW) were significantly more likely to experience headaches. Face mask use in HCW was not demonstrated to provide benefit in terms of cold symptoms or getting colds. – Cowling, B. et al. (2010) “Face masks to prevent transmission of influenza… Read more »
FP, I posted numerous links and studies that contradict your claim. They suggest masks can be useful in an epidemic setting. It’s tough to see why all these people would have randomly lied about that in the 2000s and 2010s. Of course, the caveat is that it helps most for the sick people – the transmitters – to wear them. If the transmitters are walking around without masks (often without knowing they are transmitters) and only the receivers – those not yet sick – are wearing them, the effectiveness is far less. As I predicted in my comment posted 2… Read more »
I must be over the target. You’re dialing the cult propaganda up to eleven. Jonathan: “If the transmitters are walking around without masks (often without knowing they are transmitters)…” Asymptomatic spread is rare, about 0.7% (Madewell ZJ, Yang Y, Longini IM, Halloran ME, Dean NE. Household Transmission of SARS-CoV-2: A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis. JAMA Netw Open. 2020;3(12):e2031756.) It is morally wrong to treat healthy people like they’re diseased. Jonathan: “As I predicted in my comment posted 2 hours before yours, you were going to post a bunch of mask studies where only the receiver and not the transmitter was… Read more »
The problem of course being that everyone thinks they’re asymptomatic until some X hours after they’re not. If symptomatic people were accurate in realizing when they had become symptomatic and diligent in not exposing others in public, we wouldn’t have a pandemic, would we?
I have never claimed to be prophesizing. You are abusing Scripture.
Of course, because the cult demands it, you leave out those who were and are asymptomatic, period.
What is it with you and your mask fetish? Your obsession with talismans is the very definition of religious nuttery.
Jonathan: “I have never claimed to be prophesizing.”
Also Jonathan: “As I predicted…”
Another addition to the list of things you don’t comprehend: The simple definition of words.
I wonder what other posters here think of your blatant abuse of Scripture?
Pastor Wilson predicted that McCain would beat Obama, then predicted that Romney would beat Obama. By the definition you just made up he’s a false prophet. But I don’t think your statements on this blog are based in any sort of honesty or consistency anyway
Really now, appeal to the masses? What makes you think it’s going to work for you? You’re not exactly well-liked around here, Jonathan.
And your childish tu quoque isn’t doing you any favors, either.
It’s completely false that it costs $1,000 to test for the delta variant. Testing kits for evaluating which variant a patient has have been made for as little as $15. Claiming that it’s “clear as day the Covid vaccine isn’t preventing anything” is a denial of reality. Even the study you cite claims 40% protection from delta variant (other more rigorous studies in Israel have stated close to 80% protection from delta variant), either way it is clear that the vaccines are preventing a large number of cases even with delta and far higher protection with non delta. So why… Read more »
“False!” “Absolute Falsehood!” “Ridiculous!” are not arguments.
Do better. Be better.
Also, pointing out that you pointed out “studies which contradict your claims” does not a refutation make. It’s clear you didn’t read the studies I cited. It’s clear you didn’t even read your own linked studies. Cultists generally tend to be uninformed like that.
Do better. Be better. And get out of your mama’s basement; your screeds are getting longer and more tendentious — the definitive mark of a keyboard warrior.
You’re correct, just saying “you’re wrong!” is not an argument. Which is why I made extensive, clear arguments for each of my positions, while you ironically just did exactly what you falsely accused me of doing. Then you somehow contradicted yourself and complained that my arguments are too detailed?
Typical. When you have nothing, attempt to rewrite a written exchange. You do the Ministry of Truth proud.
And thank you for proving that, once again, you don’t know what words mean. Definition of tendentious:
adj. Marked by or favoring a particular point of view; partisan.
adj. Having a tendency; written or spoken with a partisan, biased or prejudiced purpose.
adj. Implicitly or explicitly slanted.
Everyone can read the exchange FP, there’s no need or possibility for me to rewrite it.
And why did you define “tendentious” to me? I wasn’t referring to “tendentious”, I was referring to your accusations that my arguments were getting “longer” lol.
Yes, Jonathan, everyone can read it. Why you keep beating dead horses is beyond me.
I defined tendentious to you because I figured even you weren’t stupid enough to try to redefine “longer” as “too detailed”. Apparently, I was wrong.
You accused my posts of getting longer, I turned that back on you by pointing out that you are complaining that I’m being detailed. Then you decided to do you, as you do.
FP, 1) There are a lot of studies out there and it is easy to curate a liat showing no effect. As I said the effect size is small and intention to treat or per design studies usually arent significant (though the raw data usually shows some reduction, if the studies had more power they may show significance). However, in studies that also do per protocol analysis the effect is generally significant. See MacIntyre and Chughtai, 2015 for instance. 2) First, your math is wrong. You set it up for 95 percent effective if 11 of 11 were infected. Where… Read more »
Demo, 1) Handwaving. The fourth study I cited was a meta-analysis, which dug deep into the science all the way back to 1946 to reach it’s conclusions. You can believe masks work all you want — but your belief puts you squarely in the realm of faith, not science. 2) Doesn’t matter if the math is wrong. Like Jonathan, you go out of your way to miss the point, which is that the chances of 11 out of 14 vaccinated people (3 out of 14 not sick, 21% effective, using simple math) getting the Coof at the same party are… Read more »
“Doesn’t matter if the math is wrong.” That pretty much sums up what I’ve read in you comments. Why do you hate Jonathan?
Thanks a lot, demosthenes1d!
Regarding question 2: here is where nothing makes sense to me. If you are “vaccinated”, you can still get covid, but should expect milder symptoms. So my 30 year old friend, who is already unlikely to get covid, or to have it seriously if she does, got vaccinated. Now her chances of getting a serious case of covid (in the already unlikely event that she gets it) are even less. Which means she is less likely to self-quarantine if she gets sick, due to possibly not recognizing that she *is* sick, therefore she is more likely to transmit it to… Read more »
That’s an interesting question Sarah, but lowering the chances of your friend becoming symptomatic is going to protect your friend’s parents far more than getting sicker quicker would and just hoping she catches it fast enough. Every person who gets seriously ill from Covid is going to go through a preliminary stage where they don’t have symptoms, then have mild symptoms, and eventually the symptoms get serious. So if your friend doesn’t get vaccinated, and then gets exposed to Covid and gets ill, she’s already going to expose her elderly mother and diabetic father during that ramp-up phase and then… Read more »
Very interesting, Sarah. Thanks!
In simple English: 1) They aren’t, and they weren’t. However, the flu was never politicized in the way Covid has been and wasn’t used as a crisis to grab totalitarian control. 2) Anyone can spread Covid, vaccinated or otherwise. The vaccine simply makes your own case less serious. In theory, if you’ve had Covid already you don’t need the vaccine. 3) I don’t fully understand question 3, but no, “protecting others” makes no sense as a motivation to get the vaccine. If someone is worried about getting a serious case of the virus, the best protection is for them to… Read more »
Jonathan, I suggest you read my reply to Robert because it includes numerous citations to back my replies. 1) Masks are often worn during flu season in many Asian countries and it has repeatedly been suggested that they could be helpful during flu season in the West, though we’ve never taken the flu seriously enough to actually do it community-wide. 2) Several studies have shown that vaccination makes you less likely to become symptomatic AND less likely to spread to others. For example: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02054-z 3) Protecting others has always been given as a reason to get vaccines. Vaccination of the… Read more »
For readers who haven’t lived or worked throughout Asia, the current narrative is for us to notice how many wear masks there. It is a false narrative. The fact is, that before SARS CoV-2 mandates, mask wearing was predominately confined to Japan, China, and parts of Korea. It was to be polite. Anytime during the year, folks who had the sniffles wore a mask. There were only a few wearing masks compared to the multitudes moving to and fro in their daily lives. Once you got out of the city, the politeness of a mask was discarded and folks just… Read more »
At least you are acknowledging that many people wore masks to stop the flu before Covid. It is ridiculous to say it is just a few people. During any meaningful flu outbreak it would be the vast majority. This photo is from 2009. I wonder if your experience is a bit dated. In the last 20 years masks have been worn in flu season by many people not just in China, Japan, and Korea but also Thailand, Singapore, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and to some extent Cambodia. I would guess other nearby nations too (Vietnam? Malaysia? Indonesia?) but don’t have personal… Read more »
Gentle readers, Jonathan’s photo is of Japanese exiting a train or subway station. Please notice the clothes. These are the extremely polite folks. While the picture seems to be a thousand words, it is only an illusion. Once these travelers go onto the street they don’t mix with a similar, large group of masked workers, shop keepers and the like, instead, they disappear in the massive amount of folks without masks. The crowds are huge and the huge majority did not have any masks. That’s a handful in a crowded block full of Japanese. Jonathan misreads my post as saying… Read more »
I never said Japanese people wear masks 100% of the time when they’re outside. Americans aren’t being asked to either. But they DID wear masks in crowded places indoors like public transit. And it was to stop disease, which is why it has increased substantially during the Avian Flu and SARS outbreaks and for other major flu seasons. They also wore them in schools. This picture from 2014: Suggesting that Japanese/Chinese/Korean/Taiwanese/Thai/Cambodian/Singaporean folk are wearing masks to be “polite” and not for disease purposes would be ridiculous. They don’t suddenly become “more polite” during flu season, but mask wearing goes up… Read more »
And all these countries are amazing examples of freedom, liberty, independence, and Christian governance, right? We should do just as they do!
Jonathan, I was working in Asia only a short three years ago. Masks don’t save you against a virus. It goes through the pores in the mask into your nose and mouth. It goes into the areas around your eyes and into your body. All the know-it-alls shout for masks, but without secure eye protection, you still get infected. Mask wearing did not go up a ton in Asian winters. Spitting on the sidewalk in China or Korea does. Been there. Watched my step. Tell us, other than looking at photos on the internet, how many years or decades have… Read more »
Starting 17 years ago, with more time spent over there than over here in that period. And no, a disease with about a 1% fatality rate doesn’t “depopulate” anything. Your chances of getting sick in most cases (including flu and covid) are directly proportional to the viral load you are exposed to. Yes, “some” virus gets through, but the more you block the less likely you will be to get sick. And your deer example suggests you are quite ignorant of deer – 30% of all deer die every year. There are always dead deer all over if you spend… Read more »
Hong Kong Market, December 17th, 2016
Sorry folks, the second picture didn’t go through.
Hong Kong Market, December 17th, 2016
This is how Hong Kong along with many of the major Chinese cities were before the SARS CoV-2 scare. Look for the masks.
Don’t fall for the Asians wear masks so we should too scam.
Go to church and worship with your fellow Christians.
That’s another outdoor photo and December isn’t even flu season. Hong Kong flu season comes between February and April, with a second peak in summer:
https://afludiary.blogspot.com/2017/08/hong-kongs-summer-flu-appears-to-have.html
No one has claimed that Asian folk wear masks 24/7. But they CLEARLY wore masks often in indoor crowds during flu epidemics. Here’s a photo from February 2015, from an article about the current flu outbreak.
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More photos from Hong Kong news stories in Feb 2015:
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And from July 2017, in another deadly flu outbreak:
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Another photo from another February 2015 news story on the flu outbreak. No one argues that Asian folk always wear masks, especially not when walking outside. But during flu pandemics they very often wore masks in crowded indoor situations like public transit, and some of them outdoors and/or in school as well.
Jonathan, since you avoid the question, I take it that your home church folded up as soon as the government said to close the doors on scriptural worship. “And no, a disease with about a 1% fatality rate doesn’t “depopulate” anything.” Jonathan above Gentler readers, please forgive me for the long post because with one sentence, Jonathan solved the argument of government forcing masks, house arrest, shutting down businesses — all for a 1% chance of kicking off. We done been had. Don’t fall for the scam anymore. Thank you for posting news photos versus my personal photos of regular… Read more »
Dave, you posted a picture from outdoors in December, which you didn’t realize wasn’t even during flu season. It had absolutely zero value in demonstrating what people do in crowded places during flu season. I’ve posted 5 pictures of people in a variety of circumstances, all during actual flu season. In crowded indoor places there are sometimes many masked, when less crowded outdoors there are often only a few masked. It is funny you point out that one of them was a flu clinic – where they were masked to….avoid spreading the flu perhaps? I don’t know how you think… Read more »
Jonathan, you assume that which is not true. I posted that picture because it posted and I couldn’t post others. Did your home church fold up when the government said “Stop worshiping the True God, but instead worship at the feet of the government.” You and I both know that in the poor sections of Hong Kong, where the working folks live and shop, a mask is a rare sight. That is why I mentioned the living conditions. You know that just as I do. If you don’t trust the commenters here, how can they trust you? You call them… Read more »
Thanks a lot, Jonathan.
Yeah, the “protecting others” argument seems fishy.
Robert, I think all of Demo’s answers were excellent. I’ll add minor points to each of them, working backwards. #3. “Protecting others” is often used as a motivation to get the flu shot. The only two times that my wife and I were explicitly told to get the flu shot was before our newborn daughter was born (to protect her) and when my father-in-law was going through chemotherapy (to protect him). So our doctors were assuming that flu vaccination was a protective measure, though our flu vaccines aren’t nearly as effective as our Covid vaccines. I think public health services… Read more »
I have a few questions when it comes down to it, Jonathan:
1) do you trust the mainstream media?
2) do you think it is right for the government to issue mask/vaccine/distancing mandates?
3) Is your church still closed?
If the answer to any one of these is yes, your opinion is irrelevant and I fail to see why you hang out on this blog.
My opinions are irrelevant to reality. If you don’t like my opinions, just look to what Demo demonstrates about reality.
If it were all about a difference of opinion, then Pastor Wilson wouldn’t have been broadcasting a steady stream of misinformation about the pandemic. Remember when he said that Fauci was a farce and shouldn’t be trusted for predicting there would be over 200,000 deaths? Did Pastor Wilson ever apologize for that or admit he was wrong? Why can’t we describe reality accurately and start from there?
Jonathan: “My opinions are irrelevant to reality.”
Thank you for putting into words what so many of us are thinking.
Would you say the same about your opinions? You seem to be very bitter.
In the same way the opinion of a man who thinks he is a woman’s opinion is irrelevant to reality. Pastor Wilson did not broadcast a stream of misinformation. (again, can I get an answer as to why you hang out here when you disagree so much? Clearly you aren’t on the same page as the rest of us. Of course you are free to do as you like, it just seems odd to me) As to your particular instance, Dr. Fauci is a farce. I hope we don’t disagree on that. And if he hadn’t been trusted or listened… Read more »
But to answer your questions (because some folk paradoxically appear to care about them deeply). I tend to get my information from a lot of varied sources, especially paying attention to statements that are easily falsifiable if they were wrong. Though I can’t stand cable news of any stripe (CNN, MSNBC, Fox News) and don’t watch it at all. I don’t choose any single source to trust and don’t think the “MSM” always frames issues appropriately, but I do give somewhat more trust to outlets who take a big credibility hit when they post misinformation moreso than those outlets whose… Read more »
Thank you, Jonathan!
If you were really just asking, Where did the flu go, I’m afraid your analogy makes no sense in the original piece. Perhaps if you’d just scrap the whole illustration about ponds and shorten it up with an assertion we could address the same question.
Best,
Grant
The question is, “where did the flu go?” and then a “huh, what if” scenario. Food for thought if nothing else. It seems one of few possibilities, another being Jonathan’s explanation of it above.
Four Broward County teachers just died in a 36-hour period. Some southern states are running out of ICU beds and even requesting patient transfers as much as 600 miles away. I struggle to imagine how the “it’s just the flu!” crowd can keep ignoring these unprecedented events.
https://www.local10.com/news/local/2021/08/13/4-broward-educators-with-covid-die-within-2-days-as-school-year-nears/
Teachers dying is an unprecedented event?
So what? They’re no more special than anyone in any other profession, especially after they themselves demonstrated to us just how unessential they were during the Great Panic of 2020 — not to mention the CRT crap they keep trying to push on vulnerable students, often without parents’ knowledge.
Suicides are up. Drug addictions are up. Homicides and violent crime are up. People are dying because of delayed medical treatment. I struggle to imagine how the Cult of the Mask can keep ignoring the growing collateral damage they cause with their insane policies.
FP,
Suicides fell in 2020. Do you have a source that they are up in 2021?
Did I give a timeframe?
You stated suicides were up due to “collateral damage [the Cult of the Mask] cause with their insane policies. This requires a timeframe of 2020 or 2021.
When in fact suicides fell in 2020 by the largest percent in a long time (secular trend has been up, though there was a smaller decline in 2019).
According to the Cult, the pandemic isn’t over. Two studies, and an article for you to digest: Banerjee, D., Kosagisharaf, J. R., & Sathyanarayana Rao, T. S. (2021). ‘The dual pandemic’ of suicide and COVID-19: A biopsychosocial narrative of risks and prevention. Psychiatry research, 295, 113577: From the abstract: By increasing the risk of isolation, fear, stigma, abuse and economic fallout, COVID-19 has led to increase in risk of psychiatric disorders, chronic trauma and stress, which eventually increase suicidality and suicidal behavior. Sher L. (2020). The impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on suicide rates. QJM : monthly journal of the… Read more »
Skimmed them, there is very little quantification there. Meanwhile, studies have found that among groups with the most risk of suicide depression has majorly decreased:
The Unexpected Decline in Feelings of Depression among Adults Ages 50 and Older in 11 European Countries amid the COVID-19 Pandemic – Van Winkle, et al.
I have seen zero good evidence for the lockdowns/mass–>depression–>suicide narrative, which I have mostly seen among the mental health obsesed lefties. I would like to see some if you have it.
Meanwhile, studies show that suicides among young people are up. Really, we could play these games all day. But that’s not the point, and you know it. Check this out: Honest Jon claimed that “four Broward County teachers just died in a 36-hour period.” If you click on his link, guess what it says? “Two Broward County teachers and an educational assistant died within 36 hours this week…” Of course, it took him 9 hours to correct the record. No apologies for spreading misinformation in the first place, though. And of course he never bothered to mention that this happened… Read more »
FP, First, I’m not sure suicides among young people are up. I believe they may be, but the last datai hae seen is that all cause mortality for people under 30 was down in 2020. And for the type of kid vulnerable to suicide I’m not sure whether more time at a potentially awful home is worse than more tine at school with a awful peers (and possibly teachers/admins). I’m willing to believe that more young people have committed suicide due to lockdowns, but it isn’t self evident to me like it seems to be to many people. Maybe the… Read more »
Demo, suicides are a subset of all-cause deaths. For one so concerned about “misinformation”, you certainly are sloppy with your categories. Speaking of categories, it’s interesting how you completely forget other categories of youth socialization, such as sports, visits with extended family, playing with kids in the neighborhood, etc. — all of which have been adversely affected by the completely unnecessary panic over a virus with over a 99.999% survival rate for those under 18. If you think cutting kids off from the larger world isn’t detrimental to their mental well-being — all to protect some whiny adults — then… Read more »
FP, You are trying to burn a strawman. 1. I have been consistently opposed to NPIs including school closures, lockdowns (hard or soft), and mask mandates. I am also opposed to vaccine mandates, whether by private entities or public one. I strongly opposed to the moral preening about vaccines, masks, and “protecting others.” However., I don’t think every one of these things is “all about control” or is part of a nefarious conspiracy. Many magistrates are doing their best with imperfect information and imperfect counsel, and the way people have been talking about and abusing the authorities that God has… Read more »
Demo, What strawman? 1. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. While your naïveté is adorable, the fact is, “doing one’s best” does not necessarily equate to doing what’s right. Of course, that presumes magistrates are doing their best to begin with; many of them clearly aren’t (*cough* Cuomo *cough*). The magistrate should always err on the side of liberty, not security, which invariably leads to tyranny. The very fact that there are a lot of magistrates breaking the law, up to and including anti-President Ice Cream Cone, calls into question their motives, and they should be held… Read more »
FP,
I didn’t “complain of dishonesty,” the only accusation of dishonesty here is you inexplicably (or if it is explicable you failed to explicate) twice calling me duplicitious.
Also, I set you up with an outright request to name my alleged biases, and you failed to produce any. I’m happy to hear what biases you think I have that lead to my alleged duplicity.
Oh, but you did complain of dishonesty: “…any sort of line of attack that claims lockdowns cause more deaths than covid, or even anything within an order of magnitude is just not honest.” Last I checked, “not honest” = “dishonest”. That sentence of yours was a strawman, as no one is claiming that lockdowns cause more deaths than Coronachan. You really going to disagree with the established definitions of words now? On whose authority? Yours? Why you keep asking for examples of your biases when I’ve already provided them is beyond me. See #239677 & 239690 for starters. Sigh. You… Read more »
FP, Your persecution complex is acting up again. I was speaking of a common error, and one that you were perhaps abetting. I was not accusing you of dishonesty. On the other hand, you did accuse me of dishonesty (duplicity) while failing to provide any grounds for your accusation. I have asked twice for you to ennumerate my biases partly because your claim that I am not honest about my biases is an excercise in empty polemics and you have no biases to name, and partly because if you do come up with something it will be an amusing demonstration… Read more »
Demo, No one is making, let alone “abetting”, the “common error” to which you refer. Unless you have quotes, your assertion is without merit. It is a textbook strawman. It is… dishonest. Since you keep using the phrase “persecution complex” without understanding what it is, I’ll demonstrate with quotes from another poster on this blog: “So far, the minor details I have given (the fact I own a laptop) have only led me to literally months of brutal personal attacks from multiple posters, including over a dozen different attacks from one poster alone.” “Do you not see your own attacks… Read more »
Suicides aren’t up. Homicides and overdoses account for a few thousand extra deaths at most, they’re not remotely in the ballpark for accounting for hundreds of thousands of deaths.
I’m still wondering, if you excuses for over 900,000 excess deaths were valid, why the deaths track so perfectly with Covid outbreaks. All the things you name would get gradually worse doing a lockdown, they wouldn’t peak up and down with Covid. Steve Sailer already pointed this out for you.
https://www.takimag.com/article/lets-be-over-and-done-in-21/
Of course suicides aren’t up. They’re counted as COVID deaths.
The rest of your blathering is irrelevant to reality. You can stop spamming with your incessant repetitive talking points. Anytime.
Still trying to figure out how you cultists sleep at night, what with all the collateral damage you cause with your misinformation and conspiracy theories.
fp, as someone who agrees with pretty much all your points, and really is on your side, please take some admonishment from a brother. You really could communicate in a much more civil matter without so much personal attacking and deliberate rudeness. You are really not speaking in a loving manner to those you disagree with, and have labelled as cultists even if they have not shown anything proving they are outside the Christian camp. A more liberal brother can still be a brother. No need to assume malicious motives. Just some friendly tips, please take them as such.
I don’t think “teachers are special” is the point there.
By the way, I also don’t think actual teachers are primarily the ones pushing CRT. Not teacher myself, I just don’t believe it is their idea, or that most of the rank and file are that enthusiastic about it.
Until this year I had never heard anyone mention Critical Race Theory outside of college and I’ve worked in education since 2000. It’s something academics talk about in specialized courses that not that many people take, I taught in majority-white, majority-black, and majority-latino schools in LA and never heard it mentioned in any of them.
Until fairly recently I never heard the term either, but we hear it more than mentioned now, because there is a concerted effort to mainstream the ideology.Not an effort led by teachers though.
I am virtually certain that the “concerted effort” is predominantly from certain people who are always looking to prop up the next racial boogeyman. Since I graduated, 99% of the news I’ve seen and personal conversations I’ve had regarding Critical Race Theory has been in the context of opponents bringing it up, usually in contexts where it isn’t being taught or even mentioned. Looking at Google Trends, it seems that interest in the term “Critical Race Theory” was almost completely flatlined at “none” from 2004 through most of 2020. There was a brief small peak in September 2020 that started… Read more »
Mainstreaming the term is not the same thing as mainstreaming the idea. Boogeymen, not being real, do not push back when they are called out. Maybe if there were no objection and no defending when CRT is called by name and opposed I could believe it was all made up by right-wing outlets. Who is pushing this again? Who was pushing CRT in the first place? It appears to me that the Google Trend search interest for Critical Race Theory has been higher in the the Pacific Northwest, and in New England, than it has been in the South. For… Read more »
You’re right, while Idaho/Wyoming/Utah had the highest level of Critical Race Theory interest there’s been much more CRT interest in our almost entirely white-run northwest states than in the south (and even less interest in California, New York, and Illinois), despite those states having the vast majority of our country’s non-white run school districts. If CRT is really a tool of BLM and such as Trump and company claim, then does it really make sense that none of the places where black folk are running the schools seemed to be engaged in it at all? This is the typical path… Read more »
Is it your point that non-white school districts do not object to what is being pushed? I’ll buy that. Step 1. Yes, “Academics” pushed CRT in the first place. Step 2. Now the tenets of CRT, going by the name or otherwise, have permeated academics, and been infused into politics, that all long since, Step 3. And now commerce has been assimilated, with main street in the cross-hairs. Appropriate response? How about, “Yes, while we will teach the facts of history, including the ugly parts*, no we don’t want to teach Critical Race Theory. It is a false theory, a… Read more »
JohnM, PLEASE, US politics and education (especially in history) has always been infused with race. For most of our history we have pushed a predominantly WASP narrative that didn’t include the views of African Americans, Mexican Americans, or Native Americans. While at the same time, it white washed the atrocities perpetrated on these same groups. Now, mostly conservative white folks are raising a stink over CRT. I’d bet those who are screaming loudest have little to no idea what it is and what its purpose is. Why are you afraid of looking at race through multiple lenses? If you do… Read more »
Jim, CRT is a catch all term in the public debate that isn’t closely linked to academic critical race theory. But what is going by the name “in the discourse” is absolutely not “looking at race through multiple lenses” it is as hedgemonic as Fitzhugh classifying blacks as “natural slaves. People are in large part reduced to avatars for their racial group and collective constructs such as “whiteness” are treated as determinitive if individuals guilt, innocence, and responsibilities. For those of us raised on a steady diet of praise for the civil rights movement, and with Dr. King’s proclamation that… Read more »
demosthenes1d, Thank you for the reply. I have appreciated your will reasoned comments in the past, especially those that I haven’t agreed with. My remarks to JohnM were not intended to be a blanket endorsement of academic CRT. However, it was an outright condemning of conservative politicians and media pundits for using it as a dog whistle for those with little to no idea of what it actually is. What is wrong with viewing race through various lenses? It’s sure better than viewing it solely through the predominant WASP view that I was taught in the public schools of the… Read more »
I will not spare you the racialized Marxism “trope”. I prefer to look at race through a rational lens, but I don’t believe there are multiple ones that fit that description. In fact, rational mostly means not focusing on race so much at all, which once, ostensibly, was the major goal of the civil rights movement. Once was.
JohnM, there is no evidence whatsoever that those school districts are pushing the issue. If they were, I would have expected at least some conversation on the issue long before Trump turned it into a political tool, and a lot of conversation afterwards.
Jonathan (and Jim), I agree that it is mostly majority white districts going in for the craziest of the “CRT” stuff. But it is prevalent in highly mixed schools as well. See the reporting on the disfunction in Evanston, IL (which, I believe, has a black superintendent of schools) or George Packers Atlantic cover story on NYC schools. Even in my slice of the midwest the local school district is pressuring teachers to read the execrable D’Angela and attend DEI conferenes with talks on “whiteness awareness.” This is a big topic and maybe we can take it up in the… Read more »
You’re the one who brought up school districts.
Meanwhile the nurses are making TikTok videos of them dancing in the halls.
I tried to post a comment with a link but it appears to have been buried in moderation. The basic gist is to remember that the selection algorithm for the news is automatically to the sensational/man bites dog stories. 4 Broward county teachers dying is no more meaningful (in its implications, of course the lives matter) than FP’s 11 out of 14 vaxxed people being infected at a party. Personally I am opposed to any new or extended NPIs right now. I think the 7-day average for deaths will peak at <half the all time high, despite the very high… Read more »
I agree with what you say about sensational selection. But it’s relevant in the context where some people pretend a deadly pandemic isn’t real. Do you think 4 teachers dying of illness in within 36 hours in a single district ever happens outside of a pandemic?
Some folk are resolute in their stance that they will not believe macro-level numbers under any circumstance. So I’m trying any angle out there to show that something unprecedented is happening.
I do wonder what motivation they think the Republican governor of Arkansas has in saying he regrets the ban on mask mandates.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/arkansas-down-8-icu-beds-covid-rips-through-state-n1276417
Jonathan, I don’t know. Broward county has over 14k teachers and there are many other similarly sized districts. The idea that every few years a large district somewhere in the US could have 4 teachers die in 36 hours doesn’t seem crazy/odd to me. But mostly it just seems irrelevant both for apprehending the situation and making prudent judgements. I wish my link would have went through, but you (and everyone else) should read Gwern on Littlewood’s law and the media. Also, I think it is a real shame that so many governors have tried to force subsidiary units to… Read more »
Agreed there on subsidiarity, with these kinds of regulations I have a hard time imagine anything effective happening outside of the local level anyway.
To clarify, it was two teachers, a teacher’s assistant, and a 4th woman who worked closely with the school district.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/13/us/broward-county-florida-covid-deaths/index.html