Letters About Various Things But With Vaccinery Predominating

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Vaccinery AND Chicanery

A Sickly Yellow Custard That is a Little Green Around the Edges

Doug,

Just another anecdotal story for you. I am a paramedic in a major city in Washington. Throughout this thing I have [seen] gun shot deaths and CPR deaths labeled as “covid.” As of January I have seen more otherwise healthy people who now are disabled because of the vaccine. The VAERS reporting system is little known to most people, and to report an injury it takes the patient being convinced of injury and then convincing a doctor that the injury is a direct result of the vaccine and not just a bit of bad luck. To make matters worse, deaths from the shot can easily be labeled as a covid death. We had a guest over for a Sabbath dinner a month ago and she used crutches, mind you she was overweight but she informed us that since she got the shot, she can longer walk without them and my own father-in-law seemed fine a few months ago before he got the shot and now watching him get out of a seat, walk and splash relish all over his plate is painful. Just some more anecdotal stories for you from someone who sees covid nonsense all the time. If you happen to need a Paramedic out in Moscow, I’m sure I’ll be looking for work soon. I’ll keep an eye on RedBalloon

Josh

Josh, thanks. And of course all of us would like to see the anecdotal reports verified by reliable studies, but the system is so corrupt that it cannot stand up to any kind of political pressure from the left. If anyone disputes this, ask them what the position of the American Medical Association is on biological sex and birth certificates. Let’s all watch the medical establishment follow the science, shall we?

Owen Strachan

I am not sure if this is the right place for this or not, but in case you haven’t heard, Owen Strachan just released an excellent book called “Christianity and Wokeness.” It’s an absolutely fantastic book, one that I can honestly say I’ll be returning to again and again.

I think he’d be a great guest for the next season of Man Rampant.

In Christ,

Zac

Zac, thank you. He’d be a great guest. And thanks for the book recommendation.

Back to Vaccinery

My wife and I number ourselves among those who desire to resist at all costs. At this point we don’t know what that may look like but we intend to resist, so thanks for your post because we find it encouraging,

Earlier this week as we were reading through Nehemiah. His prayer in chapter nine confessing the sins of the nation was humbling, heart breaking and encouraging at the same time. In 9:33 he writes concerning God’s judgement, “Yet you (God) have been righteous in all that has come upon us, for you have dealt faithfully and we have acted wickedly.”

Certainly this truth applies to us today , however, after continuing to confess the lawless behavior of their leaders he writes , vs 36-37; “Behold we are slaves this day; in the land that you gave to our fathers to enjoy its fruit and its good gifts, behold we are slaves. And it’s rich yield goes to kings whom you have set over us because of our sins. They rule over our bodies and over our livestock as they please, and we are in great distress.”

The phrase, “ They rule over our bodies…” resonated with us for this seems to be what is happening today—rule over our bodies, coercing us to obey their vaccine mandates. Thanks for your voice on this government intrusion. I look forward to your continued efforts for us.

Be blessed and

Long live the republic,

Tony

Tony, thanks very much for point that passage out. But I would prefer to say, “the republic is dead, long live the republic.”

Doug, you had a gold line here when you said, “We want the privileges of freedom and the security of slavery.”

Would you view the root issue behind this dichotomy as one of personal responsibility? The risk of the “privileges of freedom” is that now, I am responsible for what I do, whereas with the “security of slavery”, I can at least attempt to evade responsibility by saying, “I’m just doing what I was told.”

And that’s the lie of slavery, isn’t it? That somehow slavery shifts the burden of responsibility off you and onto someone else?

Guymon

Guymon, yes. I believe the desire to evade responsibility lies at the heart of all such slavery.

Re: Budgeting for Stupidity Thank you for sharing this framework with us. Maybe Cipolla did this in the book, but the categories of intelligent, malevolent, helpless, and stupid all map very easily onto the Bible as the wise, the wicked, the simple, and the fool. Was this intentional?

Eric

Eric, there was no hint of that in the book, but I think that it maps very nicely.

With masks coming back, after their short reprieve due to the public receiving vaccinations, has your advice changed concerning this being only a matter of conscience? Can an obedient Christian wear a mask? And should a wife obey cheerfully (as you put it in your original post though I can’t remember which one it was) with whatever decision her husband makes (masks or no masks)? Or is now a time to stand firm against masks even in the family government?

Inmate California

IC, I do believe that it is time to kick, but how we do must vary. There is a difference between those who are slaves and those who are becoming slaves. It is not a sin to be a slave, and if Pharaoh had told all his pyramid builders to wear masks, then they would have had no choice. But if a free people are told to start wearing masks, and they meekly comply, then this is simply evidence that they had already become slaves at heart. That said, there is nothing inherently sinful about wearing a mask.

I would like to propose a visible symbol; a red/white/blue striped ribbon akin to the pink breast cancer ribbon style. Worn on the right shoulder it would quietly state, “I refuse government dictatorship in the form of a vaccine.” Even a conservative who has already had the vaccine could wear it. If enough of them were out there at the grocery store, in the workplace and at football games, and especially at protest marches. Or we could all wear WWJD bracelets and remain confused?

Melody

Melody, thanks. Great idea.

Need for Counsel

When I was 10 I was sexually abused by a male cousin (I also am a man). I am 22 now and I’m not sure if I’ve ever “come to terms” with that. What do you make of Christian counseling and the like?

I find myself tripping into angry seasons that I don’t even realize come on, and sometimes it affects loved ones around, most of whom have no idea about this thing ever occurring.

In short, can you please counter the claim, if you think it should be countered, that daily prayer, Bible-reading and weekly fellowship are not enough to heal from this?

I’m wondering if there’s a way I can quit taking my frustrations out on other people without telling them about what I’m so ashamed of. I have a feeling this may be part of why I haven’t been able to hold a steady relationship with a woman, but I don’t know if that’s more Freud talking than it is Scripture. In any case –

Thank you kindly,

J

J, I would recommend that you seek out pastoral counsel for this, or an experienced counselor who operates within a biblical framework. I don’t believe you should continue trying to “stuff it.”

Starting a Church

I’m not sure if this is the right place to ask about this, but I live in an area where there is zero church influence in the culture, even though we have over a hundred churches in our area. I have recently joined a group where we have a shared desire to engage our culture and community in the name of Christ with the postmill perspective. We also admire what you’ve done in Moscow, and I was hoping that you could share how you started doing that. And even more so hoping you could do an article/episode on it too. Or at least a book reference that’s helped you.

And if not, I still want to thank you for all you’ve done already.

God Bless you,

Judah

Judah, thanks for the idea, and I will throw it in the hopper. In the meantime, I should say that you will need a church with conviction and backbone at the center of anything you attempt.

Mary and Martha

I was scouring the site and couldn’t find many resources related to [Luke] 10 and hating father and mother, or the Mary/Martha listening to Jesus vs doing.

What might it look like in a modern context to hate father, wife, sister, etc? That is, in the conservative Presbyterian circle.

Also in that same circle, what would a Mary/Martha application be? Where are the conservative Presbyterians serving and not listening?

Thanks!

Tyler

Tyler, that instruction varies between Matthew and Luke. In one place it is “hate father or mother” and in the other “love father or mother more than me.” In most instances, we don’t have to choose, and our priorities are simply a matter of internal heart alignment. But sometimes the circumstances change—say that your father deserts your mother for another woman, and wants to continue to be addressed as a fellow Christian. That would be the kind of pinch point that would reveal if your allegiances were rightly ordered or not.

Job Search

I have a question related to my current job search. For background: I attended a private Christian school from mid-elementary to graduation. This school was associated with (but not an entity of) the big popular SBC in our town, and was very broadly evangelical in theology. I grew up in a very culturally Christian home, where we called ourselves Christian but didn’t go to church, so honestly school is where I learned about the Lord and likely the main tool used to save me, however vague my understanding of the whole deal was at that point. But, I was introduced to Reformed theology in college, am now happily a stuffy, reformed, patriarchal (but sadly single and thus have to work) presby.

A position I could qualify for has opened up at the school, but my question is, is it wrong to work for a school that I know is not all ‘there’ in it’s theology? I have not been back or interacted with the school since graduation 7 years ago, and there has been almost an entire leadership turnover since then, so I am not 100% sure of the current culture, but the Statement of Faith makes a point to be sound on homosexuality & and trans issues, and is broadly sound theologically, but I expect looseness or a non-stance on gender roles, soteriology, etc. Knowing that while it is broadly Christian, the school is very likely not a school that i would send my children to due to lax theology, is it unwise, or even sinful, to work there? Given the state of the world, it seems a better and safer option for a Christian than most other employers at the moment, but if I know it’s not up to par, should I just pass it by?

A

A, in your circumstance, it sounds like it would be entirely lawful for you to apply and to teach there. The main issue would be what they would make of you and your convictions.

Son of Vaccinery

Your writing is a breath of fresh air. I enjoy listening to your recordings on my runs. I have a question however that has compelled me to write.

To use this example, I agree that the government has no right to require us to wear blue ball caps on Tuesday. I struggle however with what the cut-off is. If Matthew 5:41 didn’t exist, I would argue that the government also has no right to require that captured citizens aid in military transport. But there it is: “And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.” How do you safely draw the line in a way that’s biblically faithful and consistent? Is this where this nuance comes in, quoted from your aforelinked piece?

“We have to recognize the difference between people who have been slaves for generations, and who are on the brink of being liberated, like the Israelites in Egypt, and a people who have been free for generations, and who are on the brink of being enslaved, like Americans in 2021. The strategies employed by these two different kinds of people are going to be different, of necessity, and the first thing to do is not to confound the two scenarios.”

If so, then if and when the final vestiges of the US Republic die an unmistakable death, can a conceivable scenario emerge in which the government’s requirement of wearing blue ball caps becomes our Christ-bound duty? And if so, then is this ball cap turf war a situational guidance and not a principle that is timeless and absolute? Stated another way, are there times when a government’s demands are over-reaching but we are still required to obey them? What’s the calculus that determines when we’re in this scenario versus in a scenario that warrants, nay requires, resistance? I want a clean tidy formula that I can bottle and summon at demand. Is it messier than that and requires being led by the Spirit through His Word and prayer and fastings?

Alas, these questions are becoming less theoretical by the hour. Things are still foggy over here and I wish to know your mind on this.

Thanks!

In Christ Alone,

Martyn

Martyn, the one thing it is not is “clean and tidy.” The Midianites had completely conquered Israel, and yet Gideon was still resisting by threshing his crop in the wine vat. It will be the opposite of clean and tidy.

As I sit here in “anticipation” of going to the office this upcoming Monday (I am fortunate enough to telework 3 out of 5 days a week as I am today) knowing that a mask mandate is about to be slammed back down upon us civil servants. I was hired as a Data Analyst to help a branch of the military to make data-driven decisions based on critical thinking. Now, I am being asked to throw out the skills I was hired to use in order to repeat emergency measures that didn’t work the first time (to put it nicely, they actually were the exact opposite measures from what would have work) and data prior to 2020 showed inconclusive results on their effectiveness. I am tired of this morbid game of Simon Says that we are playing with the CDC. Sitting here, I am to retain what sanity I am holding onto with white knuckles as friends, family, neighbors, bosses, etc. think I am being unreasonable. It is my reason and conscience that compel me to fight this stupid tyranny.

I say all this to say thank you for your article “Assuming the Center,” it has reminded me of where my hope lies and that no matter what happens, the father of lies will not win. I need to download that episode and put it on repeat.

Thank you,

Andy

Andy, thank you, and stay strong.

Excellent piece about resisting this tyranny. I wondered if you knew that the mRNA vaccines are all either developed or manufactured using fetal cell lines. cogforlife.org/ has the best info on this.

Also, by federal law everyone is entitled to a religious exemption and they don’t have to explain why. Probably will have to be litigated. Peggy Hall at The Healthy American has great videos. Many other groups too. But we need mass resistance. I live in Medford, OR and we are under dictatorship, as you know. The jury’s out as to whether enough people will reject this madness in the next election or even whether our elections are honest. (Who knows? Cheating is easy when voting is mail-in). We do have a group of about 4000 women called MASKLESS WOMEN OF SOUTHERN OREGON who aren’t having any of the restrictions. I think we got about 3 weeks of freedom from Her Majesty?

The biggest mistake we made as citizens was allowing vaccine mandates for children to go to school. The population has been brainwashed that unvaccinated people are a danger to others and they learned it with their school children or their own school experience. There has been a plan in the works to mandate vaccines for adults too and COVID was the perfect excuse to execute the plan. Every legislative session since 2015 we have had a big fight to stop bills removing any exemption rights for kids to go to school. CA and NY have lost theirs, and I think CT too.

A few pastors in our area believe it is their Romans 13 duty to obey . . . your piece will be helpful.

Thank you for all you do. I appreciate you because you are a full on biblical patriarch who somehow never makes me disrespected. Also I like theology that bites back especially when it makes me laugh my head off at the same time.

Trusting in our sovereign God,

Lynn

Lynn, thanks, and God bless.

Please more of this soon. Current federal employee and we’ve been seeing the pressure mount drastically. There are discriminatory practices which have been in place for months which no one has challenged. I personally know many people who did not want to get the vaccine but whose individual will and desires were simply overwhelmed by the societal and workplace pressure.

Those of us who are holding out, some on the basis of religious objections, some due to stubbornness, some due to medical reasons and common sense are daily closer to the Lion’s Den. Scripture and history is full of instances where matters of conscience (Mordecai refusing to bow before Haman, Daniel refusing unclean food and drink—refusing to bow before the statue, the Apostles refusing to be silenced, and Christians refusing to ceremonially acknowledge Caesar as divine resulted in great hardship, but also the glory of God).

For many believers in North America these questions are no longer theoretical, but are day to day hardships impacting the quality of our lives and our families’ lives. Please continue to put out these talks and make them a priority. It is very difficult to find good resources online of modern pastors speaking about matters of conscience and helping equip those of us willing to exert our rights (and suffer and lose if necessary). For many of us this potentially means significant changes mid career, social stigma, etc. Your talks referencing Slaying Leviathan have been helpful.

Please help equip us. The louder and more voices there are giving sound, theological reasons to oppose this type of overreach, the more successful we will be.

Grateful,

A brother

Brother, thank you for paying attention, and God bless you.

Thanks for your written and audio content that you keep coming our way. It is a huge blessing, and has been formative for me throughout the years. As resident Biden has now mandated the COVID vaccine for the federal government workforce, can you provide any insight on if/how we should make any distinctions between the government mandating vaccines for its employees (also citizens) and the government mandating vaccines for all citizens? I think this is really about whether or not employers have the authority to actually mandate anything like this. Based on your previous writings, I know that you would recommend a hard “no” in the event the vaccine was mandated for all citizens or if vaccine passports became a real thing, and I agree with you, but I’m curious to know if you think the employee to employer relationship changes anything?

John

John, I believe that being an employee does change things if the employer is a genuinely private business. But in a republic, the people are ultimately the employer. Our current situation is sort of like the admin staff browbeating the employees, while at the same time fighting tooth and nail to prevent a stockholders meeting. I believe that an honest stockholders meeting would result in a lot of people getting fired.

Referencing A Sickly Yellow Custard That is a Little Green Around the Edges;

There is an issue on which I am trying to collect an abundance of opinions from people I respect, in order that I might make an informed decision when the time comes. That is, for those of us in the military, can the same arguments be used to justify defiance of the vaccine requirements that are invariably coming? It is a bit more difficult to proclaim that I am not their slave when I have bared my shoulder for every vaccine they required of me to join up in the first place. If I did not protest the flu vaccine they demand we take every year, how do I protest the COVID shot? Were circumstances different, it would be easy enough to simply resign my commission should they make this a requirement, but I signed a contract promising them a certain number of years of service, and so it would not come without consequences. I ask because my feeling is that it would be right for me to refuse the vaccine regardless of the consequences, but I want my choice to be reasoned, not based purely on a feeling.

If you should happen to read this, thanks, I would appreciate your perspective.

Thanks, Very Respectfully,

Sage

Sage, yes, you did sign up for a form of “indentured servitude.” But there were a host of unwritten expectations when you signed, and they ran both ways. We are currently in the middle of a hot dispute over whether this experiment vaccine was part of the deal. I do believe that it is appropriate for military personnel to say something like “I signed up, sure, but I didn’t sign up for this.” And your willingness to take other vaccines does not remove your right to object to this one. This one really is different.

Dictionary?

What English language dictionary is on your bookshelf? I need to acquire one.

Sincerely,

Joe

Joe, the big dictionaries I have are the OED and the American Heritage. But if you are asking because you want to know where I find my oddball words, almost all of them I come across in the wild.

The Return of Vaccinery

First I want to explain I am not a pacifist. I do not take Romans 13 as a universal prohibition of civil resistance. My attitude towards bureaucrats is usually something approximating the final lines of the Rage Against The Machine Song called “Killing in the Name of.” I say this to explain my default attitude doesn’t naturally align with what Romans 13 seems to teach so your attempts to explain Romans 13 in a way that gives me an outlet for my natural inclination is welcome. However when I hear arguments that give us a route for civil disobedience I have a question that comes to mind. Is there ever a time where you disagree with the civil authority but you comply because God tells us to submit to them? How does the “scene of the second crime” not become a principle that allows you to ignore everything the civil magistrate tell you that you disagree with?

John

John, I think that is a great question. Submission that never submits would not be submission at all. There are multiple examples I could point to, but I believe that our current federal tax system is lawless and unconstitutional, and yet I pay taxes.

Just think if you had been on the Titanic: “First they told us it was unsinkable; now they’re telling us it’s sinking. Why should we believe them?”

“I don’t see any iceberg. Nobody I know saw any iceberg. FAKE NEWS!”

“Oh, now they’re telling us the hole is below the water line. How convenient. HOAX!”

“This is just a conspiracy by the lifeboat industry. You can’t make me get in the lifeboat; I have rights.”

Mike

Mike, nice try. The situation is more like the Titanic pulling into New York harbor, with all of us waving at loved ones on the pier, and certain persons were running around, yelling at us to get in the lifeboats.

On “Intro to Vaccine Passport Defiance” Dr. Peter McCullough recently cited a 2008 study, which found elderly people, who had contracted Spanish flu back in the early 1900s, were still immune to Spanish flu. Therefore, McCullough said, folks who have had a SARS2 infection now have BETTER immunity than someone who has only been vaccinated.

Last November I tested every two weeks so I could visit my parents in the assisted living facility. I tested positive, but had no symptoms. I immediately started taking Hydroxychloroquine, zinc, and D3. I took another test, thinking the first was a false positive. Second test was also positive! Never developed symptoms.

Both tests were Polymerase Chain Reaction tests. First one stopped at 23 cycles. The bottom line is I think the tests were accurate.

So now . . . I identify as vaccinated. Who can argue against it? In fact, even without a positive test, an actual vaccination, or ANY supporting evidence, who can argue if anyone chooses to identify as vaccinated?

Just sayin’…

Jerry

Jerry, sounds great to me. But the issue will come when they demand proof of vaccination.

All That Is In God

Being a father to two inquisitive young souls has pointed out such a holes of ignorance about theology and reality that I am newly astounded daily and their number and depth. This is aided by our conviction to homeschooling. I find myself often attempting to just stay ahead of what they are learning. I am, however, grateful for these trials. They have pushed me to be more diligent in my studies. I have come to appreciate and trust what you’ve been led to share on numerous occasions, as well as admire your vast literary experience. I’ve started a book that I’m hoping I would be able to learn your take on, “All That Is In God”, by James E Dolezal.

Daylon

Daylon, I read that book and enjoyed it very much. I agree with his central point, but at the same time want to be careful not to allow the categories of systematic theology to override the biblical way of talking about God.

The Bride of Vaccinery

Thank you for your introduction to vaccine passport defiance. I suspect that as an employee of a health insurance company I may have to claim a religious exemption in the near future as part of a return-to-the-office plan so I look forward to your future posts. However, there are some interesting bedfellows in this debate, at least from my viewpoint. One is that vaccine hesitancy has been well documented among minority groups who don’t trust the government or other authorities to dictate their healthcare for reasons both historical (Tuskegee Study) and current (studies indicating racial bias in healthcare). My company has become much more attuned to this and other diversity issues (LGBTQ) in the past year, culminating with the hire of a executive level post to address inequities (perceived or real) in our organization and among our members. Although I have reservations about the direction of certain diversity initiatives in our organization, it will be interesting to see how the diversity exemption correlates with the religious exemption when it comes to a vaccine requirement. On the other hand are fellow Christians, including some in my extended family who do not share our reluctance to get an experimental vaccine that is approved under an emergency authorization and that has some faint connections to fetal cell lines from an aborted baby. I believe everyone should make their own choice based on their risk factors and conscience, but they are incredulous and even indignant that we are not persuaded to submit to the authorities and to love our neighbor by getting the vaccine. These are people who might otherwise stand against the authorities in religious freedom and right to life issues, but for some reason on this issue show no tolerance for dissent.

So although I may be granted a religious exemption to return to the office by my secular employer, I may not be granted a similar exemption to return to normal interactions with certain members of my own biological and spiritual family. Our response thus far has been to graciously bow out so as not to cause offense, avoid arguing over disputable matters, and as far as it depends on us to live at peace with everyone (Rom. 14) but this is becoming more and more difficult to do. So I hope you will address navigating these flak-filled skies not only with regard to the authorities, but also with regard to other Christians who are ostensibly allies and other groups who fit into the “whoever is not against us is for us” category.

JD

JD, yes, and thank you for the reminder. That will be necessary to address.

Re: A Sickly Yellow Custard That is a Little Green Around the Edges Hello and greetings from a small country on a large continent to your east. My family and I are here serving as, well, let’s just say it rhymes with “Fishin’ Larrys”. Our host country is one of those that threw off bonds of colonialism in order to embrace the “freedom” of communism, and then threw off the bonds of communism to be be bound in turn by the kind of corrupt socialism-masquerading-as-a-democracy that the US currently is doing everything in its power to enthrone.

As in all the world, these last few years have been interesting. In many ways we are happy to have been here instead of back in the States. Although we were practically imprisoned here for several months as airports were shut down because of Pandemic Panic (TM) and land borders closed on account of a highly contested presidential election last fall. (We are still waiting for the land borders to open up!) We watched in amazement from afar as we saw the US devolving in to the same kind of third-world (sorry “developing country”—wait, didn’t the last US president have a special nickname for countries like that?) chaos that we see over here on a regular basis.

There are advantages to living in a place like this during this time. One, as mentioned above, is that all the chaos is pretty much par for the course. Another is that people here are used to death—not that this is a good thing in and of itself, but it does help stop a certain amount of panic taking hold when they look around and find out that the number of people here dying of this new plague is a blip compared to the people dying around them from malaria, typhoid, malnutrition, or any number of other NTD (Neglected Tropical Diseases) that the western world can’t really be bothered about. You could also argue that perhaps there are not as many people here in the “at risk” category – most old people or those with co-morbidities have already died from the diseases mentioned above. Or maybe not enough people are wealthy enough to have rich people problems like obesity, etc. It is also easy for them to compare this pandemic with the ebola epidemic that broke out here a few years back – you know, the one where if you got the virus you had about a 90% chance of dying, not the other way around. As we talked with friends in the early days of the pandemic, and we explained the numbers you could see the puzzlement on their faces as we explained that if you caught this you had a 99+% chance of recovery!

People here also have more to worry about than keeping up with all the mandated measures for preventing a disease that doesn’t seem to be killing vast amounts of people around them. Things like waking up in the morning and hoping that they will find some way to make the $3 they will need to have at least one decent meal for their family that day. Which means that, even though the government tries to periodically convince people that they are all dying and need to follow measure X, Y, or Z, the population largely ignores them. While there was some enforcement at the beginning, and surges from time to time when the government really puts pressure on police to fine people for not wearing masks and such. But even in those cases, the enforcement is carried out by people who mainly care about the extra cash they could pocket and not whether they are keeping people from spreading a deadly disease. (We know this to be true from the times that we were stopped because one of our kids had a scarf wrapped around her head instead of a mask and we got fined for it, while a steady stream of people just like us but with more melanin and less money to pay fines passed the checkpoint completely unmasked.)

Our official philosophy as passed down from our leaders is to abide by the laws in our host country (good witness, etc., etc.). In reality, we personally do the minimum, following the lead of our neighbors and general population. In essence this means that we will just keep masks with us and only put them on when we see police ahead.

We have also had to get tested to move around our little country here, and present our negative test results when leaving the capital city to the interior of the country. However, we know that about 99% of those taking that trip do not get tested at all. If we were to test positive, we would be required to go to a government treatment facility which is exactly as sketchy as you would expect.

The dilemma we have now is that there is increasing talk of mandatory vaccination to get visas, travel throughout this country, travel through Europe on our way back to the US eventually, etc. Sadly, people here really don’t have any legal rights to refuse a government mandate. And we, as non-citizens, have even less.

My question is, how much and how long should we resist getting vaccinated in a situation like this? Our objections to the vaccines are that they are still experimental, largely unnecessary for the vast portion of the population (especially given that almost everyone here must have had the virus by now), and most likely either expired or not kept properly cold by the time they get here. (There was a large quantity of the AZ vax “donated” to this country a few months back, and when it arrived the health officials noticed that the expiration date was a week later. They contacted the manufacturer, who were very helpfully able to issue a new expiration date for them!) Of course we also object on the grounds that you mentioned in your article as well, but again since we are not citizens, and are here on the understanding that we will abide by the laws of the land, do we have any right to resist the upcoming mandate? Miss- er, I mean “Fishin’ Larrys” generally operate on the idea that they are giving up things in order to gain the possibility of “fishing”, so in many ways I see this (the choice to forego vaccination or resist a mandatory vaccination) as one of those things we may have to give up.

On the other hand, those in our type of ministry have also been at times the ones to speak out the loudest against “legal” evils in the countries they went to—slave trade, suttee, etc. In some countries, proselytization itself is illegal, and we wouldn’t last long if we obeyed that law! Is this at that level in your thinking? Do you have any advice for people in our situation? I know we are not alone in this, and I know that in almost every case the official line that will come down from the organizations we belong to will be to get the vaccine and not cause trouble.

Sorry that this got so long! Please pray for us as we seek to navigate this in a way that is right and God-honoring, and allows for continued ministry. Thank you for your steadfast determination to stand firm on God’s Word in the midst of chaos, and for your dedication to helping others do the same.

Your co-laborer in His service.

M

M, thanks for putting everything in perspective for us. For those who need to travel internationally, or anything like that, these burdens are a matter of cost/benefit analysis. For example, I will put on a mask for a airplane trip, but at the same time, I am taking a lot fewer trips.

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Zeph
Zeph
2 years ago

J, your story sounds like my story used to be. I was molested by an older kid in the neighborhood park in front of his buddies. I know all about the anger blasts out of the blue. Doug’s father helped me with this. The number one thing to do is make sure that you are saved. I grew up in a Christian home but I wasn’t saved well into adulthood. If you are not saved, there will be no healing. Get Jim Wilson’s book on bitterness. The molestation was not your fault. The bitterness and anger are your fault. Confess… Read more »

Last edited 2 years ago by Zeph
California Girl
California Girl
2 years ago

I found the post from “J” about being sexually abused as a child and carrying a severe burden as a result, to be a familiar story to me. Back in the late 1960’s when I was 14, I was molested by a married youth worker at my church. The molestation was very mild – yet I carried a horrible, terrible burden of guilt, hatred and shame, telling no one for over two years. But Praise God!!! At a winter church camp I got sick and was left in the cabin alone during the evening meeting. My counselor came back to… Read more »

Heidi
2 years ago

“[T]o report an injury it takes the patient being convinced of injury and then convincing a doctor that the injury is a direct result of the vaccine and not just a bit of bad luck.”

That is false. Anyone can report to the VAERS database; I have done so myself. I doubt this letter-writer’s veracity.

Carla
Carla
2 years ago
Reply to  Heidi

You can report anything but it’s not going to change the numbers until it’s been verified. So yes, anyone can report, but for the statistical data to be updated, the claim must be verified by a doctor.

Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  Carla

This is directly from the VAERS site:

“VAERS accepts all reports of adverse events following vaccination without judging whether the vaccine caused the adverse health event. Some reports to VAERS might represent true vaccine reactions, and others might be coincidental adverse health events not related to vaccination at all.”

Josh’s claim was explicitly false, there is no sugar-coating it.

Last edited 2 years ago by Jonathan
Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  Heidi

It’s been very frustrating that Pastor Wilson for 18 months has repeatedly been posting obvious, easily disproven misinformation about both Covid and the election and yet doesn’t seem to pause at all in posting more misinformation so long as it agrees with his position.

Dave
Dave
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Jonathan, you don’t post things that go against your position.

Last year, when the government said don’t worship, did you go to church regularly to worship in person, singing, praying and listening to preaching side by side? Or did you fold up like a cheap suit and watch services on the TV like so many other Christians who pay more tribute to Uncle Sam than Jesus?

Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  Dave

I already answered you on that Dave, and your constant deflections are very tiresome.

JP Stewart
JP Stewart
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

No, your constant bird droppings here are tiresome. I remember near the beginning of the year you said you were super busy after losing your job (how does that work?) then proceeded to write ~50 comments on a post in one day–and some were very long and rambling. Well have at it. Grown men are too busy with family, work, church, other commitments and hobbies to keep up with a full-time keyboard warrior. But the more honorable thing would be to start your own blog/platform instead of constantly polluting someone else’s.

Last edited 2 years ago by JP Stewart
Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  JP Stewart

I was living and working in a partially closed country when Covid hit. Due to an extremely strict lockdown, our work was shut down. We transitioned to relief work instead. Combined with having a baby, a foster daughter, and generally crazy neighborhood, that meant some rather jarring extremes between working extraordinarily hard and then being stuck inside a small home with nothing to do all day.

Considering I often go months without posting at all, characterizing me as a “full-time keyboard warrior” is a bit unfair.

Dave
Dave
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Jonathan, you want everyone to follow your incorrect teachings, but don’t want to say that you lack the ability to stand up for the Bible and it’s teachings. That is: Do as I say, not as I do. Why didn’t you defy the state order to not worship and instead follow scripture to not forsake the assembling of the saints? Other Christians took the biblical stand and worshiped together even though the state said no. In Canada, folks are willing to worship and their preacher was arrested along with their church being seized by the government. Gentle readers, again, I… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  Dave

If you admit you saw my answer, then why are you still asking the same question? I already pointed out that I wasn’t going to put my father-in-law at risk while we cared for him during his cancer treatments, and due to his age we wouldn’t have risked exposing them even if cancer was not at issue. There has never been a proscription against worshipping together at home, online, and in other select ways while taking the health of one’s family into account. Again, these constant deflections are tiresome. Ad hominem is not a valid debate strategy, even if you… Read more »

Dave
Dave
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

“. . .for the first half of the pandemic (until the end of summer) I was serving in a partially-closed country and thus attending church service was not possible. At that point we returned to care for a family member who was suffering from stage 4 cancer. . .” Approx 5 days ago “I was living and working in a partially closed country when Covid hit. Due to an extremely strict lockdown, our work was shut down. We transitioned to relief work instead.” Posted above What is the real reason you folded up like a cheap suit and blamed your… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  Dave

I did worship, Dave. Who said I stopped worshipping? But the churches where I was working were closed, so we worshipped as a family and sometimes with several other friends. And look again at what you posted – I said the same thing both times. Both times I said that our work was shut down near the beginning of the pandemic and I was outside the country for the first half and caring for my father-in-law after that. I didn’t change the timeline, you’re just misreading it. I suggest you start serving God in that environment rather than just attacking… Read more »

Dave
Dave
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Jonathan, lets work with the basics.

What country were you in?

Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  Dave

Why would I share that with multiple troll posters who only wish me harm?

There are several wonderful people who comment here who know where I serve. Other than that, I’m keeping it to myself for now.

Dave
Dave
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Jonathan, where you were is directly tied to your inability to follow scripture and to worship with the saints, not just your family. It shows a lack of concern for following scripture. Daniel wasn’t supposed to pray. But he did. Gideon wasn’t supposed to tear down the Asherah poles. But he did. Christians weren’t supposed to stop corporate worship, but the majority of American Christians folded. You are like so many other America Christians who are unwilling to follow scripture if it might be a bother to them, if they might lose their job, or have the neighbors look at… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  Dave

Once again, Dave, I suggest you start serving God in that environment rather than just attacking others who are doing so for not living up to your standards. You may recall something in Scripture about those who demand sacrifices from others that they themselves will not even move a finger to lift? I never stopped worshipping. I am not ashamed of my decisions in my service to God abroad or while taking care of my dying father-in-law here, nor am I in general ashamed of how I moved during a pandemic while living with elders I am responsible for. You… Read more »

Last edited 2 years ago by Jonathan
Jill Smith
Jill Smith
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

People who know where you were, Jonathan, are grateful to God that you and your family are okay.

Dave
Dave
2 years ago
Reply to  Jill Smith

Jill, Jonathan’s mission work or relief work is not in question. All of us are happy he and his family are safe. His incorrect handling of scripture, his inability to follow a conversation to the end, along with calling those he disagrees with liars is the problem. He stands in the gates and can’t answer clearly. Years ago, when abortion was being discussed, soft Christians such as Jonathan convinced ungrounded Christians that abortion was OK because that’s what our elected officials said. There were other similar arguments, but the end result today is tax payer funded abortion with genocidal numbers… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  Dave

Dave today: “Why should we believe that you were actually in another country when we can’t verify that online?”

Dave also today: “Jill, Jonathan’s mission work or relief work is not in question.”

Jill verified it for you Dave. Not that I think it will make the slightest difference, since I don’t think your arguments rest on the facts of the matter at all.

Dave
Dave
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Jonathan, Jill did not verify your work, but complemented it by saying “People who know where you were. . .” versus “Those of us who know.”

Words have meaning and commas matter.

Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  Dave

Jill knows where I was Dave. And she’s known for years. At this point you’re just being pedantic in order to make the conversation that much more aggravating.

Jill Smith
Jill Smith
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

I think perhaps Dave is envisioning the effect of COVID in an American setting where most people are fundamentally healthy enough to shake it off and where there are hospitals with ventilators for those who can’t. He is not perhaps envisioning the effect of COVID on malnourished people who have little access to health care, let alone the power of COVID to collapse the entire medical system of a developing country. In such a case, the best thing you can do for your brothers and sisters is to stay healthy yourself and not risk passing the disease to people who… Read more »

Dave
Dave
2 years ago
Reply to  Jill Smith

Jill, I have worked all over the world and have seen the mess that men working for themselves have made and have seen the good that men working for Christ have made. Jonathan is standing in the gates and frequently calls others liars when they are not, changes the direction of comments to avoid the end game of his incorrect scripture interpretation. That is why he is beaten like a cake batter. “As iron sharpens iron, So one person sharpens another.” Proverbs 27:17 From your comments, it appears that Jonathan comes from a Catholic background which would explain the wooden… Read more »

Jill Smith
Jill Smith
2 years ago
Reply to  Dave

Jonathan is not Catholic; I am. Had I thought he was Catholic, I wouldn’t have told him the Catholic position on church attendance when a location has been struck hard by infectious disease because, of course, he would already have known it. I don’t think anything I said to Jonathan can shed light on his beliefs–only on my own.

Last edited 2 years ago by Jill Smith
Dave
Dave
2 years ago
Reply to  Jill Smith

Hi Jill, thank you for that clarification.

Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  Dave

frequently calls others liars when they are not

I want to clarify that Dave’s claim here primarily comes because I told him that the urban legend he was repeating – that President Bill Clinton gave an order on national television to fire 50,000 “cattle guards” – never actually happened. It is easy to verify this never happened, but Dave prefers to insist that I am a terrible person for demonstrating that it never happened rather than just deal with the fact that he remembered something incorrectly.

Dave
Dave
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Jonathan, thank you for giving me the first place trophy. Don’t forget that you need trophies for the others who for years you frequently called liars or dismissed their posts as being completely false.

Just look at your past posts for the facts of how many posters you have called liars.

Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  Dave

And the issue isn’t being “shot on sight” for Christian worship. In terms of my own family, the issue would be being deported and having our service shut down. But the more direct issue was the health and safety of our neighbors, a situation that ended up degenerating to horrific levels that you clearly are not able to understand or you wouldn’t keep insisting that we make them worse.

Dave
Dave
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Jonathan, see below.

Dave
Dave
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Jonathan, two weeks ago, you ran away from the topic concerning the range of Christian protest — from nothing or non-violent protest or continuing the spectrum to full armed conflict. All of which are supported by scripture based on the circumstances. Why didn’t you go to church when the government of what ever country you were in said don’t worship the one true God of all heaven and earth together with all the saints and not just with your family? Scripture tells us to not forsake the gathering of the saints. And just saying the government shut down churches isn’t… Read more »

Ken B
Ken B
2 years ago
Reply to  Dave

Has it ever occurred to you that God shut all the churches down, in order that when they reopen the chance to take a spiritual inventory of all the activities that go on could be made, and carrying on as ‘normal’ whether anything is being achieved or not sorted out. Things that were a blessing in the past, but now are just going through the motions.

Could be a wonderful opportunity to rid the faith of the dead hand of religion. Sound evangelical, but sound asleep!

Dave
Dave
2 years ago
Reply to  Ken B

Ken, God works in mysterious ways. Yes, this is a wonderful opportunity to preach the gospel and call Christians to be strong in the faith instead of folding. It is a wonderful time to witness and call those in our towns to the foot of the cross. Your point is a continuing facet of the Romans 13 discussion from two weeks ago. I think that it will also be a time of trouble. Various European countries are working on the jab passport and our current administration is considering overseas travel bans without that same passport. Oregon, like NYC, is working… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  Dave

I have no idea what conversation you think I “ran” from. I thought I replied to all meaningful questions/comments, if you think there’s something more to say then reply there so I can see it. In the country where I was working, I did not stop gathering with the saints, I just did it in very small groups with appropriate precautions. Scripture says that 2 or 3 is enough. I also felt that not meeting in large groups where precautions were more difficult (especially considering our space limitations) was a good example for others in our nation). In fact the… Read more »

Dave
Dave
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

 Jonathan, where you really were does matter. -Just what space limitations were there in the church building? -Exactly what appropriate precautions were mandated? -Would you be executed on the spot for worshiping together? ” But even if He does not, let it be known to you, O king, that we are not going to serve your gods nor worship the golden statue that you have set up.” Daniel 3:18 It is not unloving to worship together, seeing each other’s faces, singing, helping our fellow Christians in whatever trial they have. In fact, especially during communion, looking around at all of… Read more »

Jill Smith
Jill Smith
2 years ago
Reply to  Dave

Dave, is it your position that Christians must meet in large groups to worship no matter the level of risk? Would you say that if the disease was Ebola or something equally deadly? Or is your position that because COVID was not a serious illness for the majority of people in a given community, the risk did not justify suspending worship? Of the churches that have had trouble with the government, all of them closed during the early months of the pandemic. They reopened when they disagreed with the government about the current level of risk. Their argument was that… Read more »

Dave
Dave
2 years ago
Reply to  Jill Smith

Jill, Hebrews commands Christians to meet and to worship together. The act of worshiping together has many facets, most importantly, it is to meet and worship the one true God with proper worship. One facet is to be a beacon to the unsaved who watch from outside. Another is to strengthen fellow Christians we worship with. We see each other’s faces during worship knowing that each of us encounters visible and invisible trials each and every day, but we are still able to meet, worship together, and to pray for one another. “You will not be afraid of the terror… Read more »

Bobby
Bobby
2 years ago
Reply to  Dave

MATTHEW 18:20 KJV “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.”

What more do you need than Jesus in the middle of 2 or 3 gathered together?

Jill Smith
Jill Smith
2 years ago
Reply to  Dave

Thank you, Dave. God bless.

Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  Dave

I will say for the second time – demanding burdens on others that you will not even offer a finger to lift is condemned by our Lord. Don’t abuse the good work of Nigerian/Mali/Burkina Faso Christians for your ridiculous agenda. Some of the same has happened in the nation I serve, and in more indirect ways myself and my family and friends have risked our lives in this service. While you sit in a quiet neighborhood in the richest nation on Earth and cast stones, shouting words of condemnation while not risking anything yourself. I will also say that where… Read more »

Dave
Dave
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Jonathan, you overstate things and attribute to others what is not typed. Previously, you stated that you were not tied to the definitions of words. Words have meanings and commas matter. The whole point of the discussion is the spectrum of resistance available to Christians when the government oversteps its authority. You criticized others for taking a more aggressive stance against the ungodly directions of various governments than your pacifist stance. When I asked you what you did, you took an extremely defensive posture and won’t even mention the Top Secret location you were at. Perhaps that location would not… Read more »

The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Jonathan whined: “It’s been very frustrating that Pastor Wilson for 18 months has repeatedly been posting obvious, easily disproven misinformation about both Covid and the election and yet doesn’t seem to pause at all in posting more misinformation so long as it agrees with his position.”

There’s the door. Don’t let it hitcha where the good Lord splitcha.

JP Stewart
JP Stewart
2 years ago

Deep thoughts from the most popular president ever: THE PRESIDENT:   “And so, it is — I sincerely mean this: Prices are up now, and they’re up in — for example, you’re in a position where you’re trying to build a house, trying to find two-by-fours and lumber. Well, guess what? People stopped working cutting lumber. They stopped doing it because they — the unemployment was so down.  Now, all of a sudden, there’s this need because people are coming back. And guess what? Instead of paying 10 cents, you’re paying 20. But you understand what I’m saying.   MR. LEMON: Yeah. Remarks by President Biden in a CNN… Read more »

Robert
Robert
2 years ago

Logic from Pastor Wilson’s response to first letter:

“…If anyone disputes this, ask them what the position of the American Medical Association is on biological sex and birth certificates….”

simple, elegant, and unanswerable rebuttal to trusting the (e.g.) AMA, etc.

Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago

This the letter I wrote in response to your claims of a “hiding the flu” conspiracy on July 28, which either ignores the 818,939 people who were tested for flu that winter or is claiming those test results were all manipulated for some secret agenda. Imagine for a moment that Covid was not a thing, that the only major respiratory illness for the 2020-21 winter was influenza. Now imagine that for one winter, the vast majority of schools closed down. Large crowded public events, especially indoor events, closed down. Far fewer people traveled. Tens of millions of adults started working… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Also, Covid deaths are certainly underreported, not overreported. You keep pushing this narrative that Covid deaths are drastically overcounted while failing to explain the 900,000+ excess deaths last year.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/05/06/994287048/new-study-estimates-more-than-900-000-people-have-died-of-covid-19-in-u-s

Ree
Ree
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Here in my county of Santa Clara in California, they recently had to report a decrease in the number of reported covid deaths by 22%. In other words, they over-counted by that much. No reason I know of to think that other counties and cities did better.

Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  Ree

Why are you assuming that Santa Clara’s new, lower count includes all the Covid deaths? What about people who died in their homes or who died without getting tested for Covid? You’re continuing to ignore that over 900,000 more people have died during the pandemic than normally would have. You can’t make up total deaths.

Last edited 2 years ago by Jonathan
The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Why are you assuming that people who died in their homes weren’t counted in the first place? Why are you assuming that, if those who died without a test had gotten a test, and assuming the test was positive, it must be a death from the Coof? Why are you assuming the accuracy of whatever test would have been administered in the first place? Why are you assuming that over 900,000 more people in the U.S. died during The Great Panic of 2020 than normally would have when the delta between all cause deaths in 2020 and 2019 is only… Read more »

Last edited 2 years ago by The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago

The pandemic didn’t end in December 2020, FP. The 900,000 number was as of May 2021.

And I’m not “assuming”. I already showed you were the rationale for those numbers came from in careful studies from multiple sources:

https://www.takimag.com/article/lets-be-over-and-done-in-21/

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/05/06/994287048/new-study-estimates-more-than-900-000-people-have-died-of-covid-19-in-u-s

Ree
Ree
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

You presume that covid deaths are certainly under-reported in my county, even though my county acknowledged that they were over-reported. Keep in mind that Santa Clara County has certainly been among the most fear-mongering counties in the country, it was the first place to shut down in the country, even prior to the state of California, and has now issued another indoor mask mandate, despite that our hospitals are not overrun and our case numbers aren’t that bad. And as far as what I’ve been able to gather from what’s reported, our county is the only one in the country… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  Ree

But the “differences” you are citing between experts are over whether all 900,000 excess deaths can be blamed on Covid or whether it’s more like 700,000-800,000. I haven’t seen a single serious suggestion that lockdowns are responsible for the majority of deaths. If “the response” is the reason for the excess deaths, then why did excess deaths start rapidly crashing down towards 0 at the same time that a large % of the population started getting vaccinated? Did you look at Steve Sailer’s graphs in this article? How could anything other than Covid be responsible for the vast majority of… Read more »

Justin Parris
Justin Parris
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Moving the goalposts. You were arguing about whether or not Covid deaths were overcounted or undercounted. Not whether or not the response lead to those deaths. If you are agreeing that you were wrong on that point, but contending that the point doesn’t matter to the grander issue of what caused those deaths, you can certainly do that but it requires first admitting that you were wrong. For once I agree with you Jonathan, I think Doug is overblowing the Flu count argument by quite a bit. The logic goes both ways though. While there’s no plausible reason anyone would… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  Justin Parris

I’m not moving the goalposts. Some of the Covid deaths were certainly miscounted, but I already showed that the number that were missed altogether were much greater than the number than were mistakenly included. Overall there is clearly an undercount, not an overcount. The argument that Ree and apparently yourself are making is that if a county ever includes a single death mistakenly, that they should be accused of overcounting, while completely ignoring all of the actual Covid deaths that never get included in the first place. That has never been the standard in any epidemic I’ve ever seen –… Read more »

Justin Parris
Justin Parris
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

“The argument that Ree and apparently yourself are making is that if a county ever includes a single death mistakenly, that they should be accused of overcounting, “ This is the kind of obviously nonsensical garbage that leads no one to even give you a chance to be honest. I said nothing even vaguely in the general direction of this as an argument, but you are just completely and totally incapable of resisting dishonestly applying to someone an argument they did not make. “That has never been the standard in any epidemic I’ve ever seen” As is your talent, you’ve taken… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  Justin Parris

I don’t think you’re following the argument, and I’m not sure how to make it clearer. No one in epidemiology has “agreed” that total covid deaths in Santa Clara were overcounted, and no one has given a # for what total covid deaths in Santa Clara are estimated to be. They agreed that CERTAIN deaths were mistakenly added to the count of confirmed deaths, and then removed those deaths from the count. That does not change the fact that the total # of actual deaths from Covid in Santa Clara County was almost certainly far larger than the # of… Read more »

Ree
Ree
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

I suggested that the evidence indicates that covid deaths were not undercounted, but rather overcounted, I nowhere suggested that the majority of excess deaths were from the lockdowns. Covid deaths have been counted at over 600,000 in the US and even if we were to subtract a significant percentage, say 10% average, (because I’m not assuming that every county would be as aggressively over counting as my own covid-insane Santa Clara County) and if excess deaths are 850,000, that doesn’t make lockdown deaths a majority. And are you really suggesting that flu deaths have been as painstakingly and aggressively assigned… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  Ree

Flu death counts don’t come directly from “assigned” cases. They come from estimates based on a ratio of assigned cases along with observed increases in excess deaths, because health professionals know the majority of flu deaths are never “assigned” and that only counting assigned cases would result in a dramatic undercount.

Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  Ree

In terms of the Covid estimates, I feel as if you still haven’t read the articles because your questions are answered there. When looking at the stats it because quite clear that the majority of the excess deaths above and beyond the assigned deaths were also caused by Covid.

https://www.takimag.com/article/lets-be-over-and-done-in-21/

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/05/06/994287048/new-study-estimates-more-than-900-000-people-have-died-of-covid-19-in-u-s

Ree
Ree
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

I read and quoted from on of your articles. Both the number and the cause of excess deaths are disputed even within the article itself. You’re welcome to believe the figures you want to believe, but they’re by no means clear.

Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  Ree

Yes, as I already pointed out, the “dispute” is whether all excess deaths above and beyond confirmed deaths are explicitly due to Covid (meaning 900,000+ deaths from Covid), or whether simply “most” excess deaths above and beyond confirmed deaths are explicitly due to Covid (suggesting say 750,000-850,000 deaths from Covid or so). I have yet to see any serious suggestions that Covid deaths are less than the 632,000 confirmed deaths, and certainly not much much less as Pastor Wilson continuously seems to imply. Did you look at the graphs in the Steve Sailer article? Can you explain how those graphs… Read more »

Ree
Ree
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

But you’re wrong that the absolute number of excess deaths is not disputed. “Their estimate of excess deaths is enormous and inconsistent with our research and others,” said Dr. Steven Woolf, who led the Virginia Commonwealth team. ‘There are a lot of assumptions and educated guesses built into their model.’” Dr. Steven Woolf calls the absolute number of excess deaths “enormous” and notes that it’s inconsistent with their research. Enormous—meaning an extremely large number and a number that’s inconsistent with the research of Woolf’s Virginia Commonwealth team. That’s a dispute. And regarding the Steve Sailer article, I don’t know who… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  Ree

I didn’t say “the absolute number is not disputed”. My exact words, for the third time: Yes, as I already pointed out, the “dispute” is whether all excess deaths above and beyond confirmed deaths are explicitly due to Covid (meaning 900,000+ deaths from Covid), or whether simply “most” excess deaths above and beyond confirmed deaths are explicitly due to Covid (suggesting say 750,000-850,000 deaths from Covid or so).I have yet to see any serious suggestions that Covid deaths are less than the 632,000 confirmed deaths, and certainly not much much less as Pastor Wilson continuously seems to imply. All the… Read more »

Ree
Ree
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

You keep repeating yourself, and I keep repeating that you’re wrong. No other source I’ve seen reports a number anywhere close to the 950,000 excess deaths that one of the sources in your link claims—the source that’s disputed by another source in the same link. This link is an example of the kinds of numbers that are reported elsewhere. ”The Times report aligns with an analysis of mortality data conducted by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which found that from March 2020 until February 20, 2021, there were 574,000 more Americans who died than would be expected in a typical… Read more »

Ree
Ree
2 years ago
Reply to  Ree

I said, “If it could be indisputably shown that covid deaths have been counted perfectly, down to the last man, or even if it turns out they had been undercounted in the US…”

everyplace except in Santa Clara County, of course, where they already had to admit to overcounting by 22 percent.

Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  Ree

Except they haven’t, which has already been explained to you repeatedly. No one in Santa Clara County has declared that they know the exact # of deaths due to Covid or that they have accounted for all their excess deaths and know they were not Covid. Over and over you have confused the “confirmed” deaths for the “total” deaths. The santa clara officials mistakenly included some deaths that should never have been included as confirmed deaths. That does not remotely justify your claim that their original count is an overcount of the true death number – it is virtually certain… Read more »

Last edited 2 years ago by Jonathan
Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  Ree

That total death # is fairly clear Ree. That study I linked used the official count of total deaths in the USA. And there isn’t that much dispute about the # of excess deaths – at most they can be argued a few tens of thousands one way or the other, but not by the hundreds of thousands. It is not disputed that around 900,000 more people than usual have died since the pandemic began. The only question is what you attribute those 900,000+ deaths to. You’re confused because the alternative #’s you link in that article stopped counting January… Read more »

Last edited 2 years ago by Jonathan
JP Stewart
JP Stewart
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Yes, National Pravda Re-educators. We can trust our taxpayer-funded Ministry of Truth!
NPR Really Blew It With This False Claim About Louisville Vehicle Attack by Leah Barkoukis (townhall.com)

Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  JP Stewart

The study is by the University of Washington’s Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation and uses publicly available death totals. NPR has nothing to do with the study other than reporting that it exists.

And for those of you who only believe right-wing sources, I already posted Steve Sailer coming to that same conclusion months earlier, but you’re ignoring that comment.

Last edited 2 years ago by Jonathan
Joshua Frost
Joshua Frost
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Jonathan, Thank you for continuing to remind us of the official narrative, when they start looking for a new white house press secretary you must apply. So you are saying that I could report 10 times a day to VAERS and they would just add every single report that I make to the official total. You cannot have a system that people will believe if the data points cannot be verified. For example… our last election. Now to your second point, the record number of deaths that warrant the taking of the liberty of the living. December 7, 2020, Johns… Read more »

Last edited 2 years ago by Joshua Frost
Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  Joshua Frost

“John Hopkins” did not release a report. An economist at Johns Hopkins made an informal powerpoint presentation, that as far as I know was only covered by the student paper. When it was pointed out to the economist (who had no medical background) that she had misunderstood basic health statistics, she retracted her claims.

The fact that there have been over 900,000 excess deaths since the beginning of the pandemic is not in doubt. You can’t just create 900,000 extra death certificates from imaginary people. That’s a matter of public record.

Last edited 2 years ago by Jonathan
Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  Joshua Frost

I mean, the claim that there were no excess deaths last year is so obviously, explicitly wrong that even the other people addressing me in this conversation admit it isn’t possible. So why are you giving any credence at all to a claim that can’t possibly be true?

Over 900,000 more people than usual have died in the USA since March of 2020, and that is an indisputable fact.

Jill Smith
Jill Smith
2 years ago
Reply to  Joshua Frost

VAERS reports can be submitted by medical professionals, patients, and family members. You need to provide your name and address, but there is actually no mechanism to prevent a patient who files several reports from being counted several times. When a patient or family member files a report, there is no review by a medical professional to see whether the reported symptoms have any known link to the vaccine the patient received. This is why the VAERS website is very clear about the limits of the system. From the VAERS website: “When evaluating data from VAERS, it is important to… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Since some people here don’t believe anything unless it comes from a far-right source, here is a link Demo posted some months ago of Steve Sailer making the same point back in December:

https://www.takimag.com/article/lets-be-over-and-done-in-21/

Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

And here is Sailer pointing out that excess deaths dropped enormously once vaccination became widespread. This is flatly impossible if the vaccine were dangerous at any meaningful level.

https://www.unz.com/isteve/weekly-total-deaths-finally-returning-to-normal/

JP Stewart
JP Stewart
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

The death count has been unreliable since March 2020 when the CDC allowed “probable deaths” to be counted. Couple that with financial incentives for hospitals to have high case and death counts and you have a recipe for weaponized data. It appears everyone has forgotten the classic “How to Lie with Statistics” book during the COVID era. And yes, all cause mortality was high in places with moronic/demonic governors whose nursing home policies were insane. Speaking of lying with statistics, a New England Journal of Medicine article (authors from the Immunization Safety Office at the CDC) had a real doozy… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  JP Stewart

Read those links JP. If hospitals were just misattributing deaths then the total death count would be about the same as the previous year. Instead there were over 900,000 excess TOTAL deaths and the excess deaths tracked perfectly with the Covid surges.

Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  JP Stewart

And your “spontaneous abortions” claim is ridiculous. Of the 2193 women in the study who got the vaccine in their 1st/2nd trimester, only 104 had a miscarriage. Whatever misinformation junkie told you “82%” is the one that used the funny math.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaccine-pregnancy/fact-check-data-from-a-study-does-not-conclude-that-over-80-of-pregnancies-end-in-miscarriage-after-covid-19-vaccinations-figures-taken-out-of-context-idUSL1N2OX1WL

JP Stewart
JP Stewart
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Of course you go straight to a legacy media “fact checking” article that fits your agenda. Did you actually see Table 4 of the study? It’s specific data for women who reported a complete pregnancy and had vaccines within a certain timeframe. The row showing “Spontaneous abortion: <20 wk” gives the figure 104/827 (12.6%). You know when the third trimester is? Hint: more than 20 weeks. Since 700 women received their first vaccine in their 3rd trimester (in the footnote), the number should have been 104/127 (81.9%). My point was that it was either intentional or an incredibly sloppy mistake. I… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  JP Stewart

Did you just ignore the link completely? That 827 number only includes the completed pregnancies. You’re ignoring over 2000 women who got the vaccine in 1st/2nd trimester and did not have a miscarriage and are still pregnant but have not yet given birth.

Last edited 2 years ago by Jonathan
JP Stewart
JP Stewart
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

No, but you’re either a special type of illiterate/innumerate or ignored my comment to continue pushing your agenda. Since you’ve doubled down on lies and proved you’re not acting on good faith numerous times, I’ll go with the latter. Everything I wrote is based on Table 4 which is a specific group of women with completed pregnancies. There was a glaring mistake in it, whether intentional or not.

Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  JP Stewart

Your original claim was “It hid an 82% rate of spontaneous abortions in expectant mothers given COVID vaccines during first and second trimesters.

That claim was an outright lie. Of 2194 women who got the vaccination in their 1st/2nd trimester, only 104 had miscarriages. That’s nowhere near 82%.

The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Then how do you explain the disparity in Table 4 in the V-safe Pregnancy Registry† column? Pay attention to the underlined numbers: Spontaneous abortion: <20 wk: 104/827 (12.6%)‡ †Data on pregnancy loss are based on 827 participants in the v-safe pregnancy registry who received an mRNA Covid-19 vaccine (BNT162b2 [Pfizer–BioNTech] or mRNA-1273 [Moderna]) from December 14, 2020, to February 28, 2021, and who reported a completed pregnancy. A total of 700 participants (84.6%) received their first eligible dose in the third trimester. Data on neonatal outcomes are based on 724 live-born infants, including 12 sets of multiples. ‡A total of… Read more »

Last edited 2 years ago by The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago

The number of women who received the vaccine in 1st/2nd trimester was 2,846, not 2,194. I apologize for that error. So only 104 out of 2,846 had a miscarriage. Less than 4%. JP Stewart claimed that 82% of women receiving the vaccine in 1st/2nd trimester had a miscarriage. That is outright false and absolutely nowhere in the paper does it claim that. The “ratio” on Table 4 that you keep harping on is completely meaningless. It’s just a table tally. The numerator is the correct # of miscarriages, the denominator is the correct # of completed pregnancies, but the ratio… Read more »

Justin Parris
Justin Parris
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

I agree with your premise, but you took it too far. The vaccine can be dangerous on a “meaningful level” while still being a net positive at saving lives on a large scale. That isn’t how probabilities work.

If you handed me a box that, when opened, had a 100% chance of making me immune to bullets, but had a 0.05% chance of killing me instantly, even though that is a very small chance, it is still meaningful. You would still have to take the question of the box seriously.

Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago
Reply to  Justin Parris

Your point is generally true. But the fact that excess deaths actually dropped to zero for the first time since March 2020, even with some Covid deaths still occurring suggests that deaths from vaccination have to be miniscule indeed. With 347 million shots given, even a 0.05% chance of death by vaccine would have been nearly 175,000 vaccine deaths, that would certainly have shown dramatically in total death #’s.

From all the information we have, I think it’s difficult to argue more than a 0.001% chance of dying from vaccine at absolute most, and more likely less than 0.0001%.

Last edited 2 years ago by Jonathan
JG
JG
2 years ago

Judah,

Can I suggest a good book that may help in your pursuit. The Mission of God by Joseph Boot.

JG

Dave
Dave
2 years ago

Sage, I hope that you have the time to read the comments also. The penalty for early out is usually, but not always, having to return the portion of bonuses, education that Uncle paid for but you haven’t worked off. When you leave and all is tallied for the final payment, the sting hurts, but isn’t the end of life. When the Berlin Wall all came tumbling down, in just a few months the USAF dumped a large number of pilots, field grade officers, top and mid-level NCOs along with a smattering of non-line career field folks. The Army dumped… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
2 years ago

It’s hopeful to see that some people with a lot to lose are willing to change their mind when the facts demand it.

“Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson said Sunday he changed his mind about a bill he signed in April to ban mask mandates across the state because “facts change,” and admitted that signing it at a time when COVID-19 cases were low in his state was “an error.”

He’s also pushing for more vaccination after seeing what a terrible situation low vaccination levels led to in his state.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/asa-hutchinson-arkansas-governor-mask-law-face-the-nation/

The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Jonathan: “It’s hopeful to see that some people with a lot to lose are willing to change their mind when the facts demand it.”

Too bad you’re not one of those people.