Last Letters of This Misbegotten Year. Try to Be More Upbeat Next Year.

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What Has 2020 Done to Your Postmill Ebullience?

In the next couple weeks, as we enter a new year of craziness, would you write something about how postmil thinking can help give us hope & direction in times of strife & uncertainty?

Thanks so much for you & your ministry. Blessings to you & yours.

Z

Z, I will throw that in the hopper. In the meantime, just two quick thoughts. First, the postmill view is not that the kingdom of God takes off like a rocket ship, with each second representing a higher altitude. It is more like walking up the slope of a huge mountain range, and sometimes you go down into gullies and crevices in order to go further. Look at the last two thousand years in five-year increments and you will frequently be bewildered. If you look at it in 500 year increments, the picture becomes clearer. And second, remember that God frequently uses creative destruction to further His purposes in history. A lot of comfortable things got destroyed in 2020. But a number of ungodly things also took a hit.

Uhm yeah, pretty much agree, you nailed it. But I just can’t resist noticing how this post-millennium program may not be doing so well. One could be excused for having some doubts about it’s veracity.

Dave

Dave, see the previous answer. But I will add one other thing. Before I was Reformed, or postmill, one of the things that used to puzzle me was how it was that the most trenchant analysis of how screwed up everything happened to be was coming from postmillennialists. I think there is a connection.

What Shall We Name This Thing?

Mablog has offered no evidence of vote fraud in election 2020, and yet DW suggests we begin to pray because, hey, maybe voter fraud changed the election.

DW’s problem is that he was heavily invested in predicting a Trump win, and he hasn’t quite come to grips with the fact that he couldn’t take the measure of a man that 170 million Americans knew was simply a bad apple.

Fred

Fred, your inability to read what I write correctly makes me dubious about your abilities in reading what is going on in Pennsylvania, say. Everything boils down to what we are going to call this thing in the future. Shall we call it the Coup of 2020, or shall we call it the Attempted Coup of 2020? And when your grandchildren ask what you did during those tumultuous times, it would be ideal if you had an answer other than “I carried a lot of water for the bad guys.”

So I’ve clicked on and read every article you’ve posted that questions the medical establishment stances, from asymptomatic transmission, to the effectiveness of masks, to how the election was stolen. As someone who works in the sciences, I know how data can be presented to say almost anything. It all depends how honest the presenter is with background assumptions, methods of presentation, scaling of the charts, etc. You have to assume integrity the presenter if the data is to be believed. And I can’t find an honest actor out there. You say that you’ve been disappointed by the how the left (medical establishment / media) has acted, and I agree. But I’ve been equally disappointed in the integrity of the right. Every theory that has been posited about the election being stolen has been retracted. (and I might add that you are much more vigorous when linking to such articles than you are when admitting they were frauds). Sidney Powel and Rudy Giuliani are dishonest people, yet Christians keep latching their hopes onto them. I see no reason why I should trust the data that RedState presents more than the medical establishment when it comes to masks. The Trump-loving side of this country has lost my trust just as much as the godless-left.

You might assume people like me are cowardly mask-wearers who believe this was a fair election. But really we just don’t know who to believe.

Roger

Roger, I do think I feel your pain. In times of uncertainty, crazy rumors abound on every hand. So do not put your foundational trust in anyone. But here is a provisional approach. I think you can give more credence to the voices that are being censored and shouted down.

Masks in Worship

Have you laid out in one place your argument for not wearing masks in worship? I follow this blog and have put together your argument from the many articles you have written on the mask issue but I cannot provide people with a link to a straight up argument on why masks in worship are a violation of your conscience.

Arnold

Arnold, I address it in a number of places, but here is one of them.

How Masks Became the Flag of An Arrogant Ignorance

I’ve been a long time reader of this blog. No idea how I found my way here but I spent a decade or so in the Piper bandwagon and assume it was some hyperlink along the way. I have since found myself cherishing the minds of a wider net of Christendom. There are so many folks out there dedicating their lives to Truth and love the Lord I’m sure more completely than I. So I find myself drawing wisdom from multiple camps these days and you’re kinda my source of . . . how would I put it . . . crazy but maybe onto something? But you’ve gone off the deep end with this whole election fraud and mask crap.

For example

“To review: the mask covers the face, the principal place where we reflect the image of God.”

What the heck does that even mean? Does God have similar ears to me? Is it the lips? I’m white so maybe that’s it? Cause the pictures I see of him are a blue eyed white guy.

Nobody that I can think of would discuss the actual face in the same conversation about what it means to be created in the image of God.

This is just one of the many examples of you saying things that are so off the wall that you’re just starting to loose credibility. And yes I know you’re not worried about that. blah blah blah.

Jimmy

Jimmy, this is actually a major biblical theme. In Genesis 3:8, this issue first surfaces when our first parents hide from the presence (lit. face) of the Lord. I highly recommend a book I am currently reading—Shining Like the Sun by David Wenkel.

I wonder would you be so kind as to elaborate on the statement in “How Masks Became the Flag of An Arrogant Ignorance” where you said “the mask covers the face, the principal place where we reflect the image of God”. My initial reaction to reading that was “yes, I agree”, followed by “but how would I defend that statement?”

What I understand by our being made in the image of God is that we share some characteristics of our Maker that the animals do not : we can reason, think abstractly, are self-aware, have fellowship with one another and so on. But WSC Q4 tells us that “God is a Spirit, infinite, eternal, and unchangeable, in his being, wisdom, power, holiness, justice, goodness, and truth”, or in the words of the children’s catechism I am teaching my kids, “God is a spirit and does not have a body like men”.

So I’m left wondering how do our physical faces reflect the image of God ? I’m thinking perhaps it relates to how central our faces are in how we communicate and how that is hampered when we cover them.

If you could elaborate or point to some resources that would help, I’d appreciate it.

Many thanks.

Thomas

Thomas, thanks. See my response to Jimmy above, and I would again recommend Wenkel’s book. To reassure you (and perhaps Jimmy) I believe that God the Father is a Spirit, and does not have a literal, material face. But He does have a visible image of Himself in Christ, and if we have seen Christ, we have seen the Father. And the Scriptures describe our salvation in these terms. “For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ” (2 Cor. 4:6). Our faces are very much an important part of this.

I just listened to “Spiritual Quarantine”. I have a couple points that were not brought up. First, the most obvious, COVID was a test by our Father. “Non-essential” were to close down. When in the history of Christendom did Christians not nurse the sick? When did God say His church was non-essential? There was one pastor I heard of who realized his church was essential and applied to be labeled essential. The state granted that. He passed the test. He knew Christ and His church as essential.

Two, your point on quarantine. Yes in God’s word individuals and individual houses that were diseased were quarantined. The only time cities were, was when they were surrounded during a time of war to be starved. (Which shows that we are under war without even knowing it. )

Separate from these points I had wanted to ask you earlier about the public psalm sing. You said you were breaking the law, by a group sing. When clearly it is the government breaking the law to not allow the freedom of assembly. And even the higher law to not forsake the assembly of the Saints. You were not breaking the law, but standing for it.

Thank you for your time.

Kenli

Kenli, thanks. And I agree. We were not breaking the law. We were breaking what some misinformed people thought was the law.

Um, Thanks

I wanted to drop a note of personal thanks for your ministry. I actually found you through doing some investigation of biblical passages on YouTube . . . I will pause for a clearing of throat and short chuckle . . . I became enthralled with Jeff Durbin and also with your ministry. I love both of your teaching styles, but I much prefer the (I apologize, as I can’t come up with a better adjective here) “smartassery” of your talks. I pray this is accepted as a high compliment—because that is my intent. I love the Plodcast and Mablog podcasts and subscribe to both. Thanks for what you do and God bless. Sincerely,

Greg

Greg, how could that not be taken as a compliment?

The Wasteland of Secularism

In recent times we have seen a great tide carrying untethered boats further and further “leftward” into insane waters. I have been interested to see a few “classic liberals” begin to take notice and attempt to drop anchor at a certain point. Douglas Murray (UK), Brendan O’Neill (UK) and Dave Rubin (US) are examples that come to mind. I also think of James Lindsay & Helen Pluckrose with their recent book “Cynical Theories.” Whilst I find a lot to like about the work that the above names do I also wonder about what exactly it is they are trying to hold on to. They are all non-Christians trying to defend Western liberalism on it’s own merit. They want two guys to be able to marry BUT they don’t want those guys to be able to announce they are now girls and force the rest of us to agree.

They all wanted the liberal train to stop but as Esther O’Reilly recently wrote of Douglas Murray: “Murray fails to persuade the socially conservative reader that this train was designed with a brakes system in the first place. He writes as if there is, or was, a moderate middle ground in this culture war. But what if it’s been a zero-sum game all along?

I am keen to hear your thoughts on this. Can you point me to a video, blog post etc of yours that digs into the idea of liberalism unlinked from Jesus does not “hold” ?

Regards

Andrew

Andrew, I have written a good bit on this. My best suggestion would be to type secularism in the search bar and browse.

Mistaken Prayer

Your post about mistaken, faithful prayer hit me hard, but in a good way. I had just been lamenting to the Lord about how I haven’t seen any answers to prayer in recent months, in spite of praying and fasting more than I ever have before, both alone and with others. I have seen God do some visibly astonishing things in my life in the past, such as providing a home for us when our landlord needed us out and there were no rentals available and only one decent home we could afford to buy in our area; a house that someone else had under contract. God gave us that home! Another time, when we hit a large cow driving in the dark (we’re blessed to live in Wyoming) and totaled our truck, some Christians from another town called us up and offered us a free truck because they felt God wanted them to help us. We used that free truck for a few years while saving up for another vehicle. The sheriff said we should’ve died . . . I often wonder if an angel folded the hood in half to keep that cow out of our laps…

He’s answered so many bold petitions that I must confess I am feeling weary and numb from the seeming silence in the last 6 months. Your words were the message that I needed to hear today; the proof that He still cares and an answer will come in His perfect timing. I have been so blessed by your podcasts, books, sermons, and posts in 2020. This year had a way of revealing what folks are truly made of, and while I’ve been sorely disappointed in some of my evangelical mentors this year, I am grateful for you, your wife, daughters, your church group, the To the Word group, John MacArthur, etc. for demonstrating how to be courageous in these trying times. Soli Deo Gloria!

Lindsey

Lindsey, thank you, and thank the Lord.

I nearly always agree with you and most of my variances with you are minor nits. But you really surprised me here; I think you missed the mark badly. While even this post has much I agree with, the premise is wrong. The Lord does not “want us to be obediently and faithfully mistaken.” In these matters I think He wants us to understand His timing is ALWAYS PERFECT, He is never late nor early, but ALWAYS perfectly on time. He expects us to know and remember that at the time we are praying. Do we think today would be a good time for His action? Yes, in a sense. But we temper that with the knowledge He will act if and when it is best.

So I respectfully ask you reconsider your premise. Perhaps it is I who am wrong and if so, I wish to be so informed and corrected. That’s what people who value being correct and right do, they want to know when they are wrong.

I respect and value your wisdom and ministry, please take this in the spirit rendered.

Dave

Dave, yes, taken absolutely in the spirit it is offered. Those were sermon notes, and so you might want to check out the full sermon because I think we agree at the root. There is to be no moaning, complaining, murmuring, and so on. We are to constantly depend upon God in that sense. But our model of submission is Gethsemane, and Jesus did not arrive there with the matter settled.

False Gods

Thanks for all you do.

In your recent post you refer to your principle that religious freedom is a religious value. I want to hear you defend this. The Bible never teaches Christians to observe religious freedom for other people. On the contrary, in OT Israel, any man who attempted to worship another god would be executed. The closest we get to religious freedom in the Bible is the fact that the alien in OT Israel was not required to worship Yahweh. At best, the Bible teaches religious freedom from worshiping the real God; but it never teaches religious freedom to worship false gods. It teaches that men who commit idolatry should be put to death. Can you clarify how the Bible teaches religious freedom? Thanks again; very grateful for you.

Dave

Dave, I will try to get to that soon. It is true that idolaters who attempted to recruit Israelites into idolatry were to be treated that way. Granted. But I don’t believe that a Moabite who was traveling through would have been subject to that penalty if he kept to himself. But I do need to develop this argument further.

The Other Holiday

I’ve really been enjoying your book ‘God Rest Ye Merry’ for the past couple of years! I have gained much insight from it and have been blessed much. So thank you!

Here is my question: Do you have a similar book for Easter? If so, what is the title? If not, will you please consider compiling what you have written over the years and putting it together in a similar book? You may even be able to get it out well before this coming Easter! And, I would be very thankful to you for your labor!

Jon

Jon, actually, I do have a rough manuscript of just such a companion volume. It is not named yet, but it is in my pile.

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Brendan Devitt
Brendan Devitt
8 months ago

Doug, Your spiel about not having to wear masks because this would somehow detract from God’s glory is one of the most erroneous bits of thinking that I have ever heard from a would-be intelligent theologian. Masks are worn daily throughout the world for all kinds of different reasons. If wearing gas masks, oxygen masks, surgical masks (in hospitals), or masks to protect from pollution, or during space exploration, or when mining underground, or when skiing, sky-diving, performing scientific experiments in labs, bomb disposal work, or for sub-aqua purposes, to keep warm or simply to ward off offensive smells, etc,… Read more »

Brendan Devitt
Brendan Devitt
8 months ago
Reply to  Douglas Wilson

I try to be fair, Doug!

The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
8 months ago
Reply to  Brendan Devitt

Brendan of Ireland: Your reasoning would be ironclad, except for one teensy-weensy little detail: You assume masks work against the spread of Coronadoom. They don’t. You confuse correlation with causality and offer that as evidence they work. At best, that’s sloppy reasoning. At worst, it’s a careless, wanton disregard of actual science. If you think you’re going to win a debate with these tactics, think again. Every randomized controlled trial (RCT) ever done on the subject to date refutes the notion that “it’s at least reasonable and rational and plausible to think that masks might offer ‘some’ help, perhaps even… Read more »

Michael Willcox
Michael Willcox
8 months ago

Prince,
If this were true, why would they go on to say that proper use of face masks is essential because improper use might increase the risk of transmission? Your quote is missing some context I think. But sure, it makes sense that the entire world thinks wearing masks is beneficial, but an ideology built on ‘don’t infringe on my rights’ is probably a better way to go – just in case.

The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
8 months ago

Michael, you got the reference! My hat’s off to you, sir. Regarding your question, here’s some context: In order for a mask to have any chance of working, it must be used properly. Meaning, they must be the proper type (sorry, no cloth masks or surgical masks), fit-tested (an arduous process), donned properly, create a seal around the nose and mouth, not fiddled with, taken off properly, and disposed of properly. It goes without saying that we live in the real world, and no amount of training is going to get a significant portion of the general population to go… Read more »

Brendan of Ireland
Brendan of Ireland
8 months ago

Commenter, Your argument against my would be defence of Covid masks would be iron-clad, but for one teeny-weeny point: I never said masks protect against the virus. This is what I said: “It’s at least reasonable and rational and plausible to think that masks might offer ‘some’ help, perhaps even a great or significant degree of protection against spread of the virus.” What I mean is that it is not irrational for people to wear masks given medical advice, because doctors and nurses who treat Covid victims wear them, and of course masks are worn for protection against an endless… Read more »

The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
8 months ago

Brendan of Ireland: Except you did say that: …how can wearing a mask to protect oneself from Covid-19 (and its latest variants), even so much as raise the question of hiding or repressing God’s glory? I’ve already demonstrated in a sub-branch of this thread that masks are useless against the Coronadoom. When you believe an object has the capability to do something it can’t, you’re now in the realm of superstition. Indeed, no less a medical light than the New England Journal of Medicine admitted this: It is also clear that masks serve symbolic roles. Masks are not only tools,… Read more »

Brendan of Ireland
Brendan of Ireland
8 months ago

The piece you quote has nothing to do with whether masks are effective or not–I simply ask the question of how wearing ANY mask can suppress God’s glory in our lives, especially as millions of people have to wear masks everyday throughout the world.

Dave
Dave
8 months ago

Brendan, Clay is a troll who claims he is a Christian but won’t say why he thinks he is. Our faces are the first part noticed of our human aspect being made in God’s image. Proverbs 15:13 says: “A joyful heart makes a cheerful face, But when the heart is sad, the spirit is broken.” Our face is the most visible part of our witness as we walk around town living our daily lives. Every day — at work, at home, at the market, at the hardware store, the gas pump or wherever we go. We are known by our… Read more »

Clay Crouch
Clay Crouch
8 months ago
Reply to  Dave

Brendan,

Dave is a self professed, non-credentialed expert in virology, epidemiology, voting machine fraud, ballot stuffing fraud (turns out his grandfather was a ballot stuffer back in the day), and who knows what else.

While I’m sure Dave is very nice man, I recommend taking his advice with a grain of salt.

Dave
Dave
8 months ago
Reply to  Clay Crouch

Clay, please tell us again why you are a Christian. Oh, include the degrees and other honors that you hold so that we may sort your posts properly and put them in perspective.

Dave
Dave
8 months ago
Reply to  Dave

Clay, what’s your answer?

Why do you think that you are a Christian?

The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
8 months ago

Brendan, how exactly is God’s glory promoted in our lives by catering to irrational beliefs? Do you honestly think God is glorified in our lives when we give credence to fear and passively accept the damages forced masking causes?

If you think the issue is about masks per se, then you are sorely mistaken.

Bot
Bot
8 months ago

TCFKAfp: 👍👍👍👍👍

Ken B
Ken B
8 months ago

Brendan – in a way you have beaten me to it, having read this discussion earlier on. In Germany, the claim is that masks reduce the risk of spreading the virus, there is no claim of absolute protection. Furthermore, even if you are infected despite the wearing of masks, they reduce the amount of virus you pick up, which can be crucial in just how serious the illness may be and whether it might entail long-term complications. (Prof Streeck, who led a detailed study of how the virus spread in one of Germany’s hotspots.) The tragedy is when this issue… Read more »

The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
8 months ago
Reply to  Ken B

KenB, you said: In Germany, the claim is that masks reduce the risk of spreading the virus… That claim is false. And it’s not just Germany making the claim. Every RCT done on the subject to date has come to the same conclusion: Masks have no significant effect on the spread of viruses. You also said: …but the issue of wearing masks and the other hygiene measures are solely ones of health, a medical issue… Not if they don’t work. This is the crux of the issue. If we’re being forced to adopt measures that are, at best, ineffective against… Read more »

Bot
Bot
8 months ago

TCFKAfp: 👍👍👍👍👍

Ken B
Ken B
8 months ago

You have to check masks against the expertise most likely to be trustworthy. I have obtained most of my information on corona from round-table discussions with those researching and treating it, where differing opinions can be aired. There are a lot of those on the telly here. I have avoided social media and places where you could say ‘brothers, we are not epidemiologists’! Masks do very little to stop you getting infected e.g. the Danish study. They are more effective in preventing you passing the virus on to others. Out of the measures to reduce the rate of infection masks… Read more »

The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
8 months ago
Reply to  Ken B

Ken, I get my information from actual studies done by actual scientists on the subject, not from “roundtables on the telly”. Masks are no more effective as source control than they are otherwise. I’m still waiting for someone to explain to me the mechanical properties inherent in masks which somehow magically enable them to function as viral check valves. But for the sake of argument, let’s say they have limited value in source control, which is the best you’re going to get from any study. The same could be said if you sneezed into your elbow or a handkerchief. If… Read more »

Ken B
Ken B
8 months ago

Thanks for the reply. “Ken, I get my information from actual studies done by actual scientists on the subject, not from “roundtables on the telly”.” I’m not talking about talking heads and journalists, but as I indicated those actually researching the virus and those actually treating it in hospitals. To give an example, Prof Hendrik Streeck, who did an important study into transmission in Germany’s then worst hotspot. Yielded a lot of useful information. The main cause of the spread there was a carnival party, a lot of people all together in a room, no distancing, no masks. Conversely, the… Read more »

Clay Crouch
Clay Crouch
8 months ago
Reply to  Ken B

Ken B,

Thank you for attempting to educate what’s his name, but I’m afraid it will do little to assuage, much less put to rest, his pig headed convictions re: masks. What’s his name and Dave are two peas in a pod, self professed experts in God only knows how many disciplines.

The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
8 months ago
Reply to  Clay Crouch

Clay Crouch,

Just like clockwork: When you can’t address the facts, attack the messenger.

If you really believed in the efficacy of masks, then you’d wear them at home.

But you don’t, as you yourself admitted.

But please, by all means, keep attacking the messenger in your passive-aggressive way. It amuses me to no end watching you ramp up your clapping and barking like a pathetic seal desperately hoping for some morsel from those you think are your allies.

The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
8 months ago
Reply to  Ken B

KenB: “…but in any event mask wearing is hardly a great imposition.” Nice try, but no. It is a great imposition if they don’t work. Which they don’t. Why impose ineffective measures, especially against a virus with a better than 99% survival rate for most people? In addition, treating healthy people like they’re diseased does not stop, nor does it slow the spread of infectious diseases. A person who doesn’t have the virus cannot spread it, and asymptomatic spread is exceedingly rare. Amazing how this bit of common sense seems to have escaped our so-called “betters”. Interesting that you mentioned… Read more »

Dave
Dave
8 months ago
Reply to  Ken B

Ken, Nazis are not right wing at all, but in the socialist group. The news keeps missing that small point; however, living in Germany you should be able to see the demarcation line they set.

When we lived there, one of our neighbors was a proclaimed Nazi and was the Burgermeister.

Ken B
Ken B
8 months ago
Reply to  Dave

Hitler’s Germany and Stalin’s Soviet Union as totalitarian one-party states had a lot in common. Their ultimate goals though made them polar opposites. The Alternative for Germany (AfD) poses as a socially conservative party, to the right of the traditional conservatives. They have by majority garnered support from disillusioned conservative voters, and some social democrats. They are nationalist, anti-foreigner devotees of the nation-state. Anti-Semitism is rearing its ugly head again. They are a significant factor in supporting those trying to undermine government attempts to keep the pandemic under some sort of control, including lawlessness and violence amongst fellow travellers. They… Read more »

Clay Crouch
Clay Crouch
8 months ago
Reply to  Ken B

Ken B,

Thanks for straightening out Blab and Moblab’s resident political science expert.

Augus Tinian
Augus Tinian
8 months ago
Reply to  Clay Crouch

Clay,
It wounds me deeply when I find myself agreeing with you. In an effort to help you make it a more frequent occurrence, I will memorialize it here as a service to mankind.

Clay Crouch
Clay Crouch
8 months ago
Reply to  Augus Tinian

Augus,

See Ken B’s response to what’s his name above.

Joshua Lister
Joshua Lister
8 months ago

A thought on Jimmy’s issue with, “the mask covers the face, the principal place where we reflect the image of God.” His response seems symptomatic of a larger idea in evangelicalism that the spiritual life is completely disconnected from the physical world. It reminds me of when Screwtape told Wormwood, “At the very least, they can be persuaded that the bodily position makes no difference to their prayers; for they constantly forget, what you must always remember, that they are animals and that whatever their bodies do affects their souls.” I have been to Muslim prayer gatherings and the practice… Read more »

Anna
Anna
8 months ago

““The LORD bless you and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you, And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you, And give you peace.” ’”
‭‭Numbers‬ ‭6:24-26‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/114/num.6.24-26.nkjv

Michael Willcox
Michael Willcox
8 months ago

No mask based on some fantastical stretch of logic and Scripture? C’mon. What do you do with faceshields and clear masks? You are allowing your politics to govern your belief system. You cannot expect people to take you seriously when you grasp as these ideas because they fit your socio-political paradigm. Especially when you are confronted with it’s ridiculousness and just brush off the person or comment to avoid admitting how much you’ve contorted to squeeze through this theological gnat-hole. Show some respect, man.

Clay Crouch
Clay Crouch
8 months ago

A big attaboy for Fred’s letter to the great Swami DW. His non-nanswer, what about Pennsylvania and our grandchildren, was more a stammer and a stutter. You caught him with his proverbial pants down.

Nathan James
Nathan James
8 months ago
Reply to  Clay Crouch

DW’s answer was quite strong. But I imagine it loses it’s appeal when the reader is one of the bad guys.

Dave
Dave
8 months ago
Reply to  Nathan James

Clay, it’s good to see you again. You claim to be a Christian. Is that really true? Without anything except your opinion, you are quick to call others liars and to make fun of Christians, yet you can’t share why you are a Christian.

Why do you think you are a Christian?

Dave
Dave
8 months ago
Reply to  Dave

Clay, you know the answer and that is why you are afraid — yes verily — afraid to expose your limited title to the name Christian to the world.

We Be Libtards
We Be Libtards
8 months ago
Reply to  Nathan James

Nathan,

I don’t think his answer was strong at all, I found it wanting. Doug’s replies often leave me unsatisfied but one thing to remember is he doesn’t have unlimited time to spend answering the mail. So he does what he does. All in all, he does ok. And besides, it’s his toy, he can play with it as he wants.

Bot
Bot
8 months ago
Reply to  We Be Libtards

Mr. Libtards: 👍👍👍👍👍

Jonathan
Jonathan
8 months ago
Reply to  Nathan James

It loses appeal because it’s false, and everyone with a lick of sense knows it’s false. Did you see Sasse’s post on the election? After explaining in quite some detail why it’s clear Biden won, he writes:

“When we talk in private, I haven’t heard a single Congressional Republican allege that the election results were fraudulent – not one. Instead, I hear them talk about their worries about how they will “look” to President Trump’s most ardent supporters. “

https://www.facebook.com/SenatorSasse/posts/3517705981660655

Pastor Wilson is believing the word of hypocrites and liars.

Jonathan
Jonathan
8 months ago
Reply to  Jonathan

And for those who don’t know, Senator Sasse is one of the most outspoken Reformed Christians in the Senate, an elder in the URCNA and a member of Westminster’s board of trustees. He holds a lot more credibility than the clown show that has been litigating Trump’s claims of election fraud.

Mark H.
Mark H.
8 months ago
Reply to  Clay Crouch

Doug apparently thought his answer strong enough to post with Fred’s letter. He need not have posted it at all. Under this letter system, one does not catch Doug by surprise.

One of the troubles with a hermeneutic of suspicion is that it forces one to engage in mind reading. You’re not good at it.

Mark H.
Mark H.
8 months ago
Reply to  Mark H.

And an entire violation of the Golden Rule. Would you want your every word handled by others the way you handle his?

Do you claim that you can in fact determine his intent from his written words? I see that as a claim that you can look into his heart.

Dave
Dave
8 months ago
Reply to  Mark H.

Now we are getting to the bottom of Clay’s hatred problem with Wilson. Clay says it is just disgust, but it really is hate that he posts. Clay neither wants facts nor does he want to follow scripture as Christians are to do.

What makes you think you are a Christian?

“Do not devise harm against your neighbor, While he lives securely beside you.” Proverbs 3:29

demosthenes1d
demosthenes1d
8 months ago
Reply to  Clay Crouch

One of the many things I admire about Doug is how willing he is to post and acknowledge criticism. He doesn’t post every critical letter (I know, I have written some!) but he does post quite a few, even when he has no answer for their critique.

I do wish he was better at updating when he is corrected rather than doubling down, but admitting you are wrong is hard.

Jonathan
Jonathan
8 months ago
Reply to  demosthenes1d

I think I’m batting 1 for 10 in getting my letters posted, and the one I did get posted wasn’t very critical. But he does post a few critical ones.

Beth More
Beth More
8 months ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Jonathan,
Maybe you should whine about people giving you “downvotes”. There’s ample evidence that tactic works, at least for some.

Jonathan
Jonathan
8 months ago
Reply to  Beth More

It was interesting. I was getting mass downvotes on a regular basis from a certain posting clique and they laughed at me when I pointed it out. Then when some of them started getting downvotes….all of the sudden downvoting is a horrible thing and needs to be removed.

Jonathan
Jonathan
8 months ago

Pastor Wilson, take Ben Sasse’s words seriously when he says that not only was the election legitimately won by Biden, but that every Republican in Congress knows that too:

“When we talk in private, I haven’t heard a single Congressional Republican allege that the election results were fraudulent – not one. Instead, I hear them talk about their worries about how they will “look” to President Trump’s most ardent supporters. “

https://www.facebook.com/SenatorSasse/posts/3517705981660655

They lie in public and admit the truth in private. You’re following the lead of hypocrites and liars.

Jonathan
Jonathan
8 months ago
Reply to  Jonathan

And for those who don’t know, Senator Sasse is one of the most outspoken Reformed Christians in the Senate, an elder in the URCNA and a member of Westminster’s board of trustees. He holds a lot more credibility than the clown show that has been litigating Trump’s claims of election fraud.

Jonathan
Jonathan
8 months ago

An important quote from Senator Sasse’s letter: From where I sit, the single-most telling fact is that there a giant gulf between what President Trump and his allies say in public – for example, on social media, or at press conferences outside Philadelphia landscaping companies and adult bookstores – and what President Trump’s lawyers actually say in courts of law. And that’s not a surprise. Because there are no penalties for misleading the public. But there are serious penalties for misleading a judge, and the president’s lawyers know that – and thus they have repeated almost none of the claims… Read more »

Dave
Dave
8 months ago
Reply to  Jonathan

“Over $500 million dollars for a lie. Y’all are participating in a giant grift on Trump supporters.” Jonathan, please take a breath and enjoy New Year’s Eve. Hopefully in 2021, you will be able to see things more clearly. As you sit around over the New Year break ask yourself a few questions. Don’t answer here, but consider what you have previously typed. -Where were you when millions were spent by the Special Prosecutor who violated portions of 18 USC 600 and various laws concerning prosecuting attorney statements? -Where were you when the House Select Committee allowed individuals to perjure… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
8 months ago
Reply to  Dave

I don’t know why you filled your post with red herrings that have nothing to do with the topic, but the three “why do you?” statements don’t reflect me.

Why are you ignoring Senator Sasse’s words about what Republicans themselves believe?

“When we talk in private, I haven’t heard a single Congressional Republican allege that the election results were fraudulent – not one. Instead, I hear them talk about their worries about how they will “look” to President Trump’s most ardent supporters. “

https://www.facebook.com/SenatorSasse/posts/3517705981660655

Why follow the lead of people who don’t even believe what they’re telling you?