Letters on Masks Haven’t Gone Away. Sort of like the Masks Themselves.

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On Masks and the Study of Masks

Now see? This is why your Christmas cookies are all
crumbly.

New mask study.

Jeff

Jeff, thanks very much. Masks have become a religion for many, and not only a religion, but one that that developed a hardened orthodoxy in a matter of just a few weeks, and then was able to grow an Inquisition in just a few weeks more. And like many orthodoxies, it is impervious to evidence.

I’m a pastor in Iowa and we put out this statement opposing mask mandates (link attached), I was wondering if you would be interested and willing to do something similar in Idaho?

As a debtor to grace,

Sam

Sam, thanks for your work on this.

You have continued to make the point that the pandemic is intertwined with our American politics. Without disputing that politicians have co-opted it for their own ends, how do you explain that the rest of the world is also undergoing the same pandemic and responding in similar ways, though without our politics involved? For instance, Hungary is imposing strict measures. I picked Hungary as an example because they have been implementing other policies that we would approve of, such as restricting abortion access.

Concerned Reader

CR, I would respond with three observations. One is that many politicians are simply spooked. In other words, a global panic has affected them. It is not necessarily a power grab for them, but simply a panicked reaction. Second, American politics is global politics at some level. And third, politicians have the temptation to be power hungry everywhere, and can roll the crisis into their own local situation.

I’m stuck. As I have been studying Romans 13 and 1 Pet 2, it seems like there is an unqualified command to obey authorities. “Let everyone be subject to governing authorities” and “Be subject to the Lord’s sake to every human institution” whether kings or governors. However, as I dig into it there seems to be some clear assumptions made by Paul. He says subject yourselves for, or because, they exist to reward good and punish evil. Good here meaning intrinsically good, and evil intrinsically rotten, not whatever twisted definition humans want to use. The authorities bear the sword to punish rottenness and reward truly good things. But what if the government isn’t acting in this way? And what if, as I think is clear in our country, the government is the one that is perverted? This makes me think that we are then freed from some obligation. But what government in human history hasn’t been perverted? Paul’s letter has been read in some pretty crappy governments over the past 2 millennia. Is our obedience conditional to the government? If so, what are the criteria of our conditions?

Also the term ‘resist’ seems like there are some clues to our position. In Greek, resist here means to set yourself in opposition, to take a complete stand against, as in a 180 degree, contrary position. This seems to me more like a spirit of rebellion where I would set myself against anything and everything whatever, just because it comes from authority, despite what the law would be. This is oppositional defiance disorder and I understand why this would be disobedient and counterproductive.. But if this kind of resistance is not in our heart and we truly want good for our country, does this change how we understand this text?

Thanks

Tim

Tim, yes. You have stated the question well. I would say that those passages only seem unqualified if you limit the context to the immediate context on the page. But if you read those passages in the light of all Scripture, including the behavior of the two men who wrote those passages, the lights begin to come on. Paul evaded arrest, running the road blocks set up for him at Damascus, and Peter escaped from prison, and disappeared from the book of Acts as a wanted man.

I have been deeply encouraged by your writings and particularly the Man Rampant series. Surely it won’t be known this side of eternity what a profound effect a number your insights have had on my life, many confirming and elucidating things the Lord was already showing me.

I recall a blog post of yours several months ago regarding masks wherein your grandson was pictured in a quite comical outfit at the local convenient store. Made me chuckle. What is your general opinion on the use of such mockery as a tool to highlight the nonsensical nature of some of the things we’re being “mandated” to do? I live in New England where the mask requirements is rather strictly enforced most places, and while I do think it may be appropriate to wear an exaggerated get-up to point out the stupidity of all this, I want to remain dignified in a way that does not bring unnecessary reproach on the name of Christ.

Thanks for all you do,

Eric

Eric, a lot of it really is dependent upon context. Not every joke will be read the same way, depending on where you are. You have to know your people, and adjust accordingly.

Ah, Yes. The Election

I see your warnings about being a citizen as opposed to a partisan, and I appreciate the reminder. It’s crucial that we act with integrity and honesty, so as to not be ashamed before our God or create an opportunity for blasphemy. But what keeps running through my mind as I witness the info blackout on the election fraud, the deep commitment in the media to dishonesty and manipulation as well as the manifest intention of the leftists to destroy Christian family, churches and communities is “You can’t have a country like this.” I mean that citizenship seems absurd and impossible under these conditions.

Of course, I can practice neighborliness, and refuse to lie. And I would like to engage in responsible, informed citizenship with my fellow Americans from coast to coast, but when the institutions or our society are so craven, dishonest and abusive, what actually connects me with men of goodwill thousands of miles away? It seems to me that decent information is a minimum necessity.

What duty of citizenship do I owe to the leftists who fraudulently change the dictionary to cover for revolutionaries in Congress? Even Christ treated his brothers as enemies, refusing to speak plainly to them, when they suggested he go to his death at Jerusalem.

I would ask you to talk me off the ledge, but I’m not sure I’m standing on one. It seems to have evaporated beneath my feet.

Nathan

Nathan, yes. These really are troubled times. But remember, as Corrie ten Boom once said, God has no problems, only plans. And He has a perfect plan for us in these times (Eph. 2:10). We were made for this time, and this time was made for us. And we can live like citizens even when the commonwealth has evaporated.

This is going to be a challenge for me to follow the biblical command to rebuke an older man like a father. I typically agree nearly everything you write. This post however, is so poorly reasoned it is difficult to know where to begin. The first problem is your characterization of what people who voted for Trump were voting for. I know so many marginal pro-lifers who voted for Trump. They voted for him because he didn’t speak to them like a politician. They felt like he spoke to them and not at them. They hoped for good jobs returning to the US. They hoped for less government waste, lower taxes, and secure borders. The abortion issue if it was an issue at all, for them it was secondary. These people were in no way judiciary repenting of abortion with their vote. For you to miss this I have to conclude your view is clouded by the environment you live. My son is a student a Logos Online School. He tells me there are pro-abortion students even in Logos. Every mainline denomination in the US supports abortion. Every mainstream media outlet supports abortion. Pop culture supports abortion. Where is this repentance coming from that you speak of? Even many evangelicals support abortion.

Your critique of those who believe we elected Biden with eyes wide open misses how the critique cuts the other way. Your argument is every major media establishment, multiple local governments, and tech companies are corrupt enough to conspire to steal the election while there was mass repentance of abortion by the electorate.

Your prayer should be that your eyes would be open to the actual condition of our country. You should pray that the Lord would grant real wholesale repentance of our nation not this pathetic excuse for judiciary repentance you speak of. I am not even sure what you mean by that.

For those of us who believe there was election fraud but reject this idea of our country voting for judiciary repentance of abortion, we know that the mail in voting system was enough to get the Democrats the needed votes to take the Executive Branch. They didn’t steal our repentance because our country has no desire to repent.

Finally, I’ve heard it said in our circles, abortion is a judgment from God for sexual sin. I believe we will certainly be given greater judgement for the sin of abortion. However, how can we repent of a sin that is in itself a judgment, without repenting for the initial sin of adultery that brought this judgement?

John

John, thanks for the kind words at the beginning, and thanks for the spirit of the admonition. I think we differ, but I don’t think it is the result of “poor reasoning.” I would attribute it to differences in the premises. I do agree with you that things are in a really bad way, even within the church. At one point above you say that you are not even sure what I mean by juridical repentance. I am not talking about the spirit of repentance that drove all Judea out to see John the Baptist. I mean some closer to what Ahab once did (1 Kings 21:29). And God responded to it.

How much of the current milieu do you think can be attributed to Fatherlessness? From Candace Owens Twitter feed:

The daddy issues are strong with many. It’s pretty incredible to consider that right now governments are like “in order to keep you safe, we need to impoverish you, imprison you, force mask and vaccinate you, plus separate you from your family” and there are millions of people out there that are just like “okay!”

Sam

Sam, I believe that fatherlessness is at the root of just about all of our problems.

On “Believing the Election Was a Fraud Can Be Key to Your Future Prayer Life” The little baggie of coke on the toilet seat from Antrim county Michigan looks more like a baggie of talcum powder suspiciously placed, see here: Given that this was a major part of the thesis for the election being stolen, my prayers will be leaning more towards option #2, Americans did this terrible thing with eyes wide open. It is not such a ridiculous proposition that at this moment, the other side appears to be winning.

Joel

Joel, Antrim County was not a major part of the thesis—it was a “for instance.” My conviction about the election is based on a comparison of the Trump and Biden campaigns, the media’s behavior during the campaign, Big Tech’s brazen censorship of voices questioning the results of the election, the last minute changes in voting processes, court battles to prevent third party forensic analysis, and the physical possibility of fraud. Let us assume for a moment that nobody cheated. And then assume that they did. What would be different about this second aftermath? I can’t think of anything.

Regarding your most recent blog, given the corrupt nature of this election, do you oppose him invoking his 2018 executive order to get to the bottom of this fraud?

Thanks in advance for your consideration

Bob

Bob, it depends entirely on what he invokes the executive order in order to do. If he goes in one direction, I would support it. If he goes in another, I move into opposition.

I love you and the men in my church love you (Cornerstone Church of Knoxville).

I am concerned you have closed your mind on this issue of massive election fraud and a stumbling block/idol altar is being established. Obviously a problem I’m confident you would avoid and have in many many cases! I also believe closing your mind is a good thing when the thing in your mind is worthy of biting into.

“In the hands of a capable prosecutor.” I guess Trump doesn’t possess any of these cause the court losses keep piling up. This is the key information I have to discredit the stolen election narrative. I’m still suspicious of foul play but where’s the beef?

Which brings me to my next question. Does the failure to prove massive fraud in multiple court cases not disturb your confidence? What’s the counter argument? Continued demands of fraud, if it in fact wasn’t fraudulent, would be unjust to those losing their vote in the process. The fraudulent narrative is HIGHLY actionable information! Which leads many in the church into action, but what if it’s misguided?! Do they become participants of evil?

I know this quick email is scattered but I’m trying to do this on my phone and I really do respect your thinking. Sorry if it’s not entirely clear.

With Love,

Todd

Todd, thanks. I really am willing to bow to the facts. But there is a difference between bowing to facts and deferring to authorities. Facts cannot be threatened, or bribed, or intimidated. See my answer a few letters up. I don’t need a court to view the macro-situation the way I do. Sum it up this way. IF there was massive fraud, nothing about t

Re: “Why Believing the Election Was a Fraud Can Be Key to Your Future Prayer Life” This was enlightening (and deeply moving, incidentally). Since the election, I’ve been struggling to really believe that we could deserve anything other than a destruction like that of Sodom and Gomorrah, let alone a Trump victory. Apart from that, I am fully in your “massive fraud” category. While I absolutely believe that Trump won in a landslide, and even that there is still hope that this truth will result in another Trump presidency; and while I pray for justice to prevail according to our laws, and also pray such maledictions against the traitors as the ones you suggested; I can’t help but think that true justice for our atrocities as a nation would be a Biden presidency, and far worse. In that sense, I have been believing as you said the second group should logically believe, but does not (and I would note that I believed this consciously, and have been seeking a solution to this dilemma of conscience).

I had overlooked the point that you made about our votes as a form of societal repentance. While I need to think and pray about it some more—and talk to my priest—before I can be entirely sure of the problem in my thinking, I believe that this concept fills in the gaps. In that sense, your post is a timely and reassuring answer to prayer; I’ve listened to it a few times, and will likely listen a few more times, as I keep gleaning more with each review.

I appreciate your application of biblical principles and examples to our nation, because it’s harder for me to see that than it is to see how they apply to the realms of individuality, family, and the Church. Also, I highly value your reading of these posts.

Liv

Liv, thanks very much, and God bless.

Another thing: in either case, many Christian officials sinned against their consciences (smelling something but saying nothing, etc). We should pray that our Heavenly Father be kind to them and give a good repentance and strengthen them in defending the defenseless and restraining evil. We need all the sane lesser magistrates we can get, and a magistrate with a bad conscience can’t be relied upon.

Blessings,

Keith

Keith, yes, and amen.

I have a practical question. I believe that evidence of fraud in the election is overwhelming. It is clear to me that Donald Trump won and the DNC stole it in a few key locations. As I write this, there seems a very real possibility that Trump may impose the use of his 2018 executive order regarding foreign meddling in US elections. I am very concerned about the cheating in this election. I am also very concerned that Trump may refuse to leave office based on an executive order. I think there has been foreign meddling in this election and I think Trump is the rightful president. If Trump were to pull executive fiat out as a means for staying in power, should Christians support Trump’s bid to stay in the White House or condemn that as a naked power grab? I would personally prefer Trump be the president, so I know what I want to be the right thing. Perhaps he won’t do this and this is moot, but I would like to seriously consider a response in advance if possible.

Thanks,

Terry

Terry, I believe that Christians should be opposed to every form of arbitrary power. And if Trump moves into that territory, we should be opposed to that. At the same time, since he would be likely to leave evangelicals alone, we should use the respite we would likely get as a time of repentance and teaching, so that we might grow to the place where in the church knew what we were supposed to do.

Remember this conversation between Studdock, Hardcastel, Filostrato and Feverstone?

“Ah. It’ll hardly affect her. In the meantime, you and I have got to get busy about the account of the riot”

But—what’s it all for?”

Emergency regulations,” said Feverstone. “You’ll never get the powers we want at Edgestow until the Government declares that a state of emergency exists there.

Exactly,” said Filostrato. “It is folly to talk of peaceful revolutions. Not that the canaglia would always resist—often they have to be prodded into it—but until there is the disturbance, the firing, the barricades—no one gets powers to act effectively. There is not enough what you call weight on the boat to steer him.”

States of emergency seem to benefit the State.

The state is like the hydra who looks to have one of its heads cut off in order to grow two in its place.

May God grant us a Hercules.

Todd

Todd, thanks for the citation. Lewis saw a lot of things coming.

Why Believing the Election Was a Fraud Can Be Key to Your Future Prayer Life “Those Christians who believe the election was honest tend to do so because they believe that our system is still basically healthy.”

Well, no, not exactly. They tend to believe the election was honest for lack of any evidence to the contrary. They tend to dismiss the charges because the plaintiff was afforded multiple opportunities but offered up nothing of substance.

They consider too that the fraud alleged would require too many co-conspirators in too many places, both Republican and Democrat. If indeed the election was fraudulent, if “they” could pull it off, our political system is more deeply and thoroughly, and fundamentally corrupt than even you seem ready to acknowledge. If the election was a fraud and Trump actually won, our system is hopelessly corrupt in a somewhat different way than you mean; not only morally depraved but corrupt in a more basic sense of the word when it applies to politics. If it is corrupt in that way and to that degree, *every* purported election result is suspect, not just the reported result of the Presidential election. In that case, nobody should feel bad about not voting at all. If you believe that make sure Georgians get the memo. Me, I don’t believe that and I’m hoping the Republicans keep the Senate. I will pray for governing officials in any case and my prayers for them will be the same no matter who they are.

John

John, I am quite prepared to believe that things are really, really bad. And again, see above.

There is one thing that makes me thankful amidst all these goings-on. If one side was going to cheat in plain sight of the American people, (cheat literally in real-time, with most of the nation watching as suddenly 35,000 votes for Biden were entered), I am thankful that it was the Democratic party who did it. Republicans are also capable of corruption of course. But I think there are honest, well-meaning people who previously believed the lie that the Democratic party was the party of love, honesty, care, and goodwill. Now their true colors have been revealed and honest people everywhere are being given the opportunity to rethink their political assumptions.

Leslie

Leslie, thank you.

“Reflections on a Pig’s Breakfast Presidential Maneuver” John Adams once said, “We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion . . . Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”

The problem with America is that a large portion of our population has become immoral and irreligious. Yet most Christians in our nation are exasperated because the dry bones of what used to be our republic aren’t standing up and operating without the Spirit. When we are governed with diverse weights and measures, we are simply experiencing the reality of being governed by men and women who have a name that they live, but who are yet dead in their trespasses and sins. As Christians in America, I feel that like Ezekiel, we are standing over the dry boneyard of our once great nation with God asking us, “Son of Adam, can these bones live?” And all we can say is, “Lord, you know.”

God help us! Give us utterance to prophesy to these bones, and by your grace and Spirit grant our nation repentance unto life! The Gospel of Jesus Christ is, and has always been, the only thing that can save America.

Josh

Josh, amen, and amen again.

Book Question

You have had a tremendous influence in my life, more than what the average person might realize if they don’t know me. Thank you for shaping and molding me by God’s grace through His Word and for His glory. Serious question, and a little bit random: Have you read “How the Nations Rage” by Jonathan Leeman. I have found that he gets knocked quite a bit by people in our crowd but I have found quite a good deal of overlap with you like how politics are war of religions and that all politics will serve some form of worship, that all governments will serve some god, and that all laws push someone’s morality. Clearly, there are also somethings that he is more neutral on compared to you. (Probably, more interactions living in the DC area for so long, and trying to find essential common ground with folks to “live peaceably with others”.) But would love to know if you’ve read it and your thoughts on some areas of differences. And if you haven’t, would love for you to check it out in the future and write a review/give your thoughts.

You are almost like a father to me. Thank you for so much.

Ace

Ace, I have not read it. But on your recommendation, I just ordered it.

Montessori Education? And Gary North on Education?

Recently I have been thinking of it in two different sections: newborn to three years old and school-age education.

Having had several students transfer to our school from a Montessori school I find that they struggle in ways that students transferring from other schools do not. Specifically with keeping to a schedule and engaging in topics that are not ones they chose. We have also had students transfer from Montessori schools that seem diametrically opposed to one another. One transferred because they were not learning enough academics and another because their Montessori school was demanding that kindergarteners learn multiplication. I have a hard time understanding how both of those schools are under the Montessori umbrella. I find that many of the child-centric principles both put students at a disadvantage and are dishonoring to God.

However, when considering the toys offered for newborns to three years old, I find that I like some of the themes that I am seeing: natural materials, a lack of overly electronic doodads, and well-made toys that encourage problem-solving. I am a diehard endorser of Classical Christian education, but it has left me wondering if there are some redeeming qualities or ideas worth considering.

Thank you for your time and thoughts.

In Christ,

Brittany

Brittany, I am not well read enough on Montessori methods to offer any kind of detailed critique. But I can say that at the level of an outside observer, I would tend to be suspicious of the child-centric assumptions that appear to go into it.

First, I want to say thank you for all you do. Your ministry has been a huge help and clarifying force for me in marriage, ministry, and life. I really appreciate your courage and demeanor, and especially your sarcasm! It is a breath of fresh air.

I am writing to bring a book to your attention that a friend of mine recently published. It is a satirical book claiming to disprove Calvinism. I enjoy your book reviews quite a bit and thought this might be one to consider.

I was also wondering if there are any places online or in print where you have interacted with Gary North, especially on education. I know you both are big advocates of Christian education, but with very different views on the best kind.

I appreciate your time if you’ve made it this far! God bless you and your ministry!

Jeff

Jeff, I have responded to North’s critiques of classical ed a few times. Some samples can be found here and here.

Author’s Prerogative

I don’t want to jump on you like all those Glock fanatics did (I myself prefer an H&K), but having traversed the road between Lynchburg and Culpeper many times, I can’t help pointing out that there are no toll booths on Route 29 (nor on any alternative routes).

Thanks,

Philip

Philip, I put toll booths there because I needed toll booths there. Think of it as an alternative universe Virginia.

Lutheran Kudos and Complaint

I’m a conservative confessional Lutheran but I am always embellished by you’re Biblical content, humor, joy in God’s created gifts, and I appreciative your faithfulness to your own Reformed Confessions. My question concerns “God Rest Ye Merry”, which I have been reading this Advent. It’s a phenomenal book and has made be bubble with delight in expectation of Christmas. In devotion day 8, you seem to look down upon Dickens’ Christmas Carol as “a humanistic feel good ghost story” and I’m asking in the kindest and merriest way possible, what gives? It seems to me that is a beautiful tale of the power of redemption and the beauty of memory, while it altogether leaves out Christ. How can we balance appropriately correcting the errors of a narrative while also rejoicing in the truth that it recognizes (perhaps Lewis would have some thoughts about this)? Also, what are your thoughts on Chesterton’s belief in Santa Claus, is he just crazy or is he onto something? God’s Blessings and Merry Christmas! In Christ,

Wil

Wil, after I wrote that I read Chesterton on Dickens, which caused me to lighten up (just a little bit). And where did Chesterton write on Santa? He would, too.

The Leap

Well, I’ve taken the leap and sold my home in order to make the move towards radical Christian community such as you are chasing in Moscow but am not sure what to do next. I felt God saying to sell and take the next step so I did that. I am sitting on the proceeds of my house sale, have a wife who is on board, am renting and have a job wherein I could move to Moscow but I don’t really feel called to that at this point. I’m outside Atlanta and would love to get connected with other likeminded folks in the area but you haven’t plodded your way to making the “Start Your Own Moscow” app/website yet. Is that in the works?

In all seriousness, where do I go from here?

Thank you for all you do and may God bless you and your ministry.

Jeff

Jeff, not sure how much help I can be. I would just encourage you, as you make your relocation decisions, to prioritize worship, number one, education for your kids, number two, and extended family number three

Canadian Kudos

I am almost finished reading “Ride, Sally, Ride”, with one chapter to go. When you were listing what different states did in the penultimate chapter, I asked myself, what does Doug envision for Canada? Then you answered: Alberta applied for statehood. I laughed hard when I read that, because I live in Alberta! Born in Calgary, raised in Airdrie.

But please pray for us. With our current “Conservative” premier, Jason Kenney, who wants a job in Ottawa, we will not secede. If the New Democrats and Rachel Notley return to power, we will not secede. But your novel is set 20 years in the future, so there is hope.

Kenney has vocally resisted swallowing us whole in a total lockdown, but has still taken chomps. Yet my church is continuing to meet at full capacity in Calgary, and we have been praying for you and for Christ Church. We even ordered several copies of Cantus Christi!

So pray that we will have a heart of wisdom, and endure with patience and grace the persecution we are presently facing. Thank you. We all love you and your ministry. I have read five of your other books and your Revelation commentary is the reason I am an optimist today!

God bless you,

Christopher

Christopher, thanks very much. I have always had a soft spot in my heart for Alberta—my mother was from there. So I kind of am, I suppose.

On Some of My Writing

Do you still stand by your book “Southern Slavery: as it was” ?

Haven

I can not thank you enough for your prolific writing (and other media). It never fails that when I search for a topic, lo and behold, you’ve written on it! Recently I was discussing OT feast days with a friend and easily found a statement you had written and adopted at your church. It was exactly what I was looking for to further my discussion with my friend. As soon as I found it, I thought, “Of course he wrote something. He has written on EVERYTHING!” I greatly admire you and thank God He has given you to my generation. Keep up the good work and may God continue to bless you abundantly!

Bess

Bess, thanks very much, and many blessings back.

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Jane
Jane
8 months ago

Agree with John. I believe our system is ailing enough that massive fraud could have happened. I need evidence to see that it did. Lots things could happen. Human depravity, and human depravity in a time where our country is increasingly pursuing the worst kind of idols without shame, has few limits as to what it could produce. But could, doesn’t mean has. I also am slightly bewildered at the idea that fraud is a more likely explanation for a Biden win than people finding various reasons to vote against Trump, despite the folly that voting for Biden represents. After… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
8 months ago
Reply to  Jane

I’m also bewildered that Pastor Wilson takes “a comparison of the Trump and Biden campaigns” as evidence of fraud. When he made this his primary proof of fraud in an earlier essay, I pointed out that the Biden campaign had very publicly spent far more money on television advertising, especially in the critical swing states. The Biden also spent more money overall and concentrated it towards the important states better. Pastor Wilson compares the campaigns from what he sees on TV in Idaho, a state which both campaigns ignored for obvious reasons.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/10/17/us/politics/trump-biden-campaign-ad-spending.html

Mike Freeman
Mike Freeman
8 months ago
Reply to  Jane

Agree with Jane. There’s also the issue that Trump made a fortune by being a con artist, so why should anyone believe his claims of fraud? The people who accept Trump’s claims of fraud should at least consider the possibility that they’re being played for chumps, and the real object of these lawsuits is to get guillible people to donate money.

Jonathan
Jonathan
8 months ago
Reply to  Jane

Thank for pointing out that Trump’s lawyers haven’t even brought evidence of meaningful fraud to the courts. I wonder what people think of the fact that Trump has raised over $200 million in his campaign to overturn the election, but has only spent a tiny fraction of that, even forgoing such obvious steps as paying for a full recount in Michigan and most other states (recounts that would have immediately proven certain “voting machine” conspiracies true or false). It’s almost like he doesn’t believe his own claim.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-05/trump-campaign-spends-8-8-million-in-effort-to-overturn-vote

Armin
Armin
8 months ago
Reply to  Jane

Doug, Regarding the Covid panic, at what point do you think church leaders should start gently nudging those members who have been avoiding the physical church gatherings to start coming back as a way for those members to fulfill their duty to the body (not including those who are legitimately vulnerable to the virus)? If we recognize that the powers that be operate within their own reality that is foreign to ours, one which is a reflection of their own degeneracy and pathologies and which is entirely disconnected from truth and sanity, then by continuing to encourage those who are… Read more »

We Be Libtards
We Be Libtards
8 months ago
Reply to  Armin

I will gladly return (I think) if and when the leadership abandons the mask requirements. Until then I will not darken the door. And if they persist in their stupidity, I may never return even if the mask nonsense does go away. People need to realize some church leaders are 100% onboard with the entire leftist agenda of masks and vaccines. Not all pastors and elders are in lockstep with their congregations.

Jonathan
Jonathan
8 months ago
Reply to  We Be Libtards

The vaccines that Trump tried to take credit for and Pence and his wife just publicly took are a “leftist agenda” now?

We Be Libtards
We Be Libtards
8 months ago
Reply to  Jonathan

What is it about the term “Leftist” that annoys you so, Jonathan? I would think you’d wear the badge proudly.

Jonathan
Jonathan
8 months ago
Reply to  We Be Libtards

I didn’t say there was anything annoying about the word leftist, “We Be Libtards”. I just pointed out do you that it was quite silly to call vaccines a “leftist agenda”.

What do you think of the article Demo posted by Sailer? Isn’t he very far right-wing?

https://www.takimag.com/article/lets-be-over-and-done-in-21/

Ken B
Ken B
8 months ago
Reply to  Jonathan

The technique being used to make the new vaccines was discovered, more by accident than design, in Tübingen Germany, over 20 years ago. I recently watched an interview with the doctor concerned. It’s use for an anti-corona vaccine was developed by a German company BioNTech in partnership with Pfizer.

As this will be of benefit to everyone, it doesn’t really matter who discovered and developed it, but I wish Trump wouldn’t try to use it for self-aggrandisement.

We Be Libtards
We Be Libtards
8 months ago
Reply to  Ken B

Ken,
I wish that too. But it won’t bother me nearly so much when Biden claims credit for it.

Armin
Armin
8 months ago
Reply to  We Be Libtards

I was talking more about congregations where the leadership is sane. I think the next step involves dismissing the narratives of the powers-that-be as irrelevant to us. If the elites and their toadies (including within American evangelicalism) want to have their weird Covid religion with its little rituals and face accoutrements and so forth, that’s their business. But what do we as Christians have to do with that stuff? Encouraging people to stay home, whether explicitly or implicitly, just because of some generalized fear they have about it is to grant some level of legitimacy to the narrative.

We Be Libtards
We Be Libtards
8 months ago
Reply to  Armin

Armin,
I’m puzzled how you think I was

“Encouraging people to stay home, whether explicitly or implicitly, just because of some generalized fear they have about it…”

I agree, to do so (encourage from fear) would

“…grant some level of legitimacy to the narrative.”

The same can be said for complying with their ritual requirements by donning the face covering and attending their “services”. I don’t stay away from fear of the VIRUS. I’m surprised you didn’t pick up on that.

Armin
Armin
8 months ago
Reply to  We Be Libtards

I wasn’t talking about you, I was talking about in congregations that are sane, i.e. where they’re not doing things like a mask mandate like they’re apparently doing at your church. I was saying that we need to resist the insanity even further by encouraging our more fearful congregants to resist that fear and return to the assembly.

We Be Libtards
We Be Libtards
8 months ago
Reply to  Armin

Armin,

Ok, gotcha. Thanks. And I agree.

BTW my brother is in a situation like that. His wife is paranoid but he’s persuaded her to attend and she is semi-ok with it. Some people and marriages have a struggle going on. I’m not heartless about it but we need to keep the main thing the main thing.

demosthenes1d
demosthenes1d
8 months ago
Reply to  Armin

Armin, If someone who is under 60 and relatively healthy and doesn’t, say, live with their elderly relative isn’t attending church it is long past time to tell them that they shouldn’t forsake gathering. We should all be well calibrated with regards to our actual risk, and the risk of those around us. People should realize that this has been far and away the deadliest year for Americans since antibiotics were discovered. We will likely surpass half if the excess death percent of the worst year if the Spanish Flu (1918) by the end of the year. This disease really… Read more »

JP Stewart
JP Stewart
8 months ago
Reply to  Jane

Jane, you’re right about the media’s 4-year hate parade for Trump, including downright Orwellian tactics and censorship from Big Tech….and not covering damning stories about Hunter Biden and other issues until after the election. Still, many things don’t pass a basic sniff test. Trump got 11 million more votes than he did in 2016, the biggest jump for any incumbent. Obama was reelected in 2012 with 3.5 million fewer votes than he received in 2008. 95% of Republicans voted for him. He not only did very well with rural male working-class whites (not surprising), but also made large gains with… Read more »

Jane
Jane
8 months ago
Reply to  JP Stewart

None of those things are particularly mysterious. Biden having large majorities of minority voters in the cities he depended on for that isn’t uncanny, it’s to be expected. An increasingly polarized electorate accounts for all of them with little mystery. Obama had broader support than Biden — yes, we knew that. Lots of people were taken in by Obama’s smoothness and some felt virtuous in a race-based vote. Have two more polarizing candidates, and the blue candidate depends more heavily on extreme deep blue areas? That’s not surprising, that’s the completely expected situation. All you have to do is accept… Read more »

demosthenes1d
demosthenes1d
8 months ago
Reply to  Jane

It isn’t even really true that Biden got more support from blue enclaves. Take a look at the counties that shifted the most from 2016 to 2020 in Georigia and Pennsylvania, for instance. It isn’t the big cities, it is the wealthy suburbs. Fulton county, home of Atlanta, shifted 2% blue, but suburban Henry county shifted 16% blue, heavily republican and suburban Forsyth shifted 16% blue. Trump lost the most support among well off, well educated white voters and the county break downs show it. If you have a fraud story that explains Trump losing major support in republican held… Read more »

JP Stewart
JP Stewart
8 months ago
Reply to  Jane

And you’re certain that every mail-in ballot was legitimate? As in they could come in and present an ID? No, that’s not even remotely close to the truth. But if you’re mind is made up, so be it.

Jane
Jane
8 months ago
Reply to  JP Stewart

Certain that every one is? Not by a long shot. I believe there was corruption. Plenty.

I believe that if it was the case that there was so much that the election was called for the wrong candidate, there would have been some evidence produced in a court that justifies that claim by now.

The choices are not “Trump actually won” and “everything was great.”

Jonathan
Jonathan
8 months ago
Reply to  JP Stewart

No JP, not “every” mail-in ballot was legitimate. As posted below there are ongoing voter fraud cases against Republicans in the courts right now. However, were there tens of thousands of such illegitimate votes, and especially tens of thousands more such votes in Biden’s favor in at least 3 different states? No, there’s no such evidence at all.

This is the worst case I’ve seen, it was quickly caught and it probably wouldn’t even have affected 100 votes in the end.

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/politics/florida-attorney-under-investigation-registering-vote-georgia-encouraging-others-do-same/L6LTC2AHBFDMXPOTZKVMO5ESJQ/

Jonathan
Jonathan
8 months ago

Here’s another article on how ridiculous the Antrim fraud claims were. Last week I had told Pastor Wilson that the group had previously been caught in multiple false and silly claims about election fraud that had already been proven wrong – now we see that was the case once again, which doesn’t surprise anyone paying attention.

I’m bothered that last week Pastor Wilson promoted their claims about fraud as true despite no evidence that they were. Now this week he’s apparently suggesting that actual evidence of fraud isn’t necessary?

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/12/17/antrim-county-hand-tally-certified-election-results/3937898001/

Dave
Dave
8 months ago
Reply to  Jonathan

“Now this week he’s apparently suggesting that actual evidence of fraud isn’t necessary?” Jonathan, that’s not what Wilson typed at all. Take a breath and reread the comments. Also, do you have an explanation as to why Dominion machines and software count fractions of votes? Why do the machines have the ability to print out a filled in ballot using a variety of different pen marks to mimic real voter’s marks? Why are the ballots that need adjudication sent electronically to another machine at another location for that process? God is in control. He is in control of the entire… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
8 months ago
Reply to  Dave

He has repeatedly stated that a great deal of fraud was committed that stole the election from Trump. Right here, he suggested the falsehood of the Antrim fraud claims is unimportant, and then listed the things that were behind his conviction of fraud, none of which included any evidence of fraud.

So far as your claim that Dominion voting machines count fractions of votes, I’m not sure what you’re referring to…perhaps a fractional ranked-choice voting system? No, Dominion machines don’t do that.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/12/15/dominion-voting-ceo-antrim-county/3906017001/

Dave
Dave
8 months ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Jonathan, the Dominion machines and software allow votes to be counted in fractions — say 3/5ths of a vote instead of 1 vote. That was in the Dominion machine handbook released from Colorado. Try reading it, you’ll like it. Why would you have a voting machine that can produce on the spot filled in ballots with different marks so the ballots appear to be from different voters? Also from the Dominion machine handbook. It is really an interesting read. Why are states and counties resisting having the machines, the codes and the machine data viewed in court and examined microscopically… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
8 months ago
Reply to  Dave

Again, Dave, that isn’t true. And if it were true, it would immediately be exposed in the recounts that have already been done, as the # of printed ballots wouldn’t be able to match the “fraction” tally.

Can you please start linking actual sources for the wild accusations you keep making?

Dave
Dave
8 months ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Jonathan, please take a deep breath and stop accusing everyone who disagrees with you a liar. That is really not a Christian response.

Go read the Dominion books yourself and then let me know what you think. You are a big boy, so I’m sure you can find the releases.

JP Stewart
JP Stewart
8 months ago
Reply to  Dave

“Of course, as time passes, the mess is being cleaned up — in the same manner that Hillary cleaned up her illegal server.”

Yep, anyone who questions the Deep State or elites being above the law only need to look at Hillary. I handled plenty of classified info in a past life and would probably be spending the rest of my life in jail if I did what she did. It’s unconscionable.

Dave
Dave
8 months ago
Reply to  JP Stewart

JP, your are correct on the classified information. I was called in for investigation concerning a faulty piece of classified hardware that was turned in and properly accounted for to maintenance. Weeks later, the piece was shipped improperly and even though I had no connection to it, I was still grilled.

The individuals who have never seen corruption up close do not understand what is going on.

Merry Christmas!

JP Stewart
JP Stewart
8 months ago
Reply to  Dave

For those who aren’t hoodwinked and bamboozled by hacks at the NY Times and CNN, here’s a guy who has real skin in the game (unlike gov’t bureaucrats and sellout journalists). I’m praying for him and for the truth to surface.
https://www.facebook.com/1055783179/videos/10220860459755375/

Jonathan
Jonathan
8 months ago
Reply to  JP Stewart

So for people who don’t want to watch yet another social media video making wild allegations that never seem to end up in Trump’s court cases…. 1. Joe Oltmann is a conservative activist who gets himself in the news fairly regularly, protesting against anything from stay-at-home orders to “unequal treatment” from journalists. 2. He claims that he “infiltrated” an “Antifa” call in September in which he heard a guy named “Eric from Dominion Voting Systems” who told everyone on the call that he had ensured Trump could not win the election. 3. Joe claims he always preserves everything, yet he… Read more »

JP Patches
JP Patches
8 months ago
Reply to  JP Stewart

I’ve had misgivings and disagreements with you JP but I must admit, you’re right about the election.

Clay Crouch
Clay Crouch
8 months ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Dave knows all about voter fraud. He said that he can spot a ballot stuffer because, get this, his grandfather was a ballot stuffer. Now that’s a Super Power.

It’s almost as silly as his insistence on having special knowledge in virology and epidemiology that qualified him to advise everyone one on mask wearing. “Degrees? I don’t need no stinking degrees!”

Dave
Dave
8 months ago
Reply to  Clay Crouch

Clay, neither you nor Jonathan have the ability to do much except complain and disrupt. The Bible tells us that God hates brothers who do that.

Why do you think you are a Christian?

Clay Crouch
Clay Crouch
8 months ago
Reply to  Dave

Dave,

Please provide the source of the information you are using to make these claims. And no, your ballot stuffing grandfather is not a source.

I look forward to your response.

Dave
Dave
8 months ago
Reply to  Clay Crouch

Clay, it’s good to see you back.

What makes you think you are a Christian?

I’ve been waiting for your answer for some time.

Jonathan
Jonathan
8 months ago

On a different note – Sweden is publicly stating that their approach to the pandemic has failed, an approach that was previously lauded on these pages. With a death rate 10 times higher than their neighbors, they are now shutting down schools for children over 12 and banning public gatherings of groups larger than 8.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55347021

Clay Crouch
Clay Crouch
8 months ago

Martin Luther contradicts (that shouldn’t surprise anyone) Doug Wilson’s counsel on Christian behavior during time of pandemics. Others [those who take no precautions] sin on the right hand. They are much too rash and reckless, tempting God and disregarding everything which might counteract death and the plague. They disdain the use of medicines; they do not avoid places and persons afflicted with the plague, but instead lightheartedly make sport of it and wish to prove how independent they are. . . . God has created medicines and provided us with intelligence to guard and take good care of the body… Read more »

Ken B
Ken B
8 months ago
Reply to  Clay Crouch

There was a history/archeology programme on UK TV recently (my sister tells me) showing that the hygiene distancing rules were applied in times of plague and pestilence several centuries ago – indeed before Luther. They didn’t have modern knowledge but they had worked out how to protect themselves as far as possible from infection.

Ree
Ree
8 months ago
Reply to  Clay Crouch

Martin Luther lived through actual plagues. Covid is no plague. Also, Luther spends most of that piece, talking about why he isn’t taking more precautions, primarily not moving out of the plague ridden city with his wife and child, which was apparently an option for him and would presumably have helped “slow the spread” and “flatten the curve.” The portion you quote is just a counterbalance to his argument for not doing everything possible to try to control the outcome and avoid the plague. In your portion, he’s talks about people on the extreme end who appear to have been… Read more »

Clay Crouch
Clay Crouch
8 months ago
Reply to  Ree

Ree, I don’t know what you mean by COVID is no plague. Try telling the friends, family members, and loved ones the 300,000+ dead in the US that this isn’t a plague. I hope you’re not a history teacher. Luther’s description of the those mentioned sounds very similar to what’s happening all over the country. And yes, Wilson has disdain for masks and has personally flouted the law and encouraged other in that regard. I hope you’re not a science teacher. Deaths from plagues prior to the advent of modern medicine go along way towards explaining the high number of… Read more »

JP Stewart
JP Stewart
8 months ago
Reply to  Clay Crouch

“300,000” including all the heart attacks, motorcycle accidents, decades of tobacco use, etc. that are counted? Even the left-leaning Hill said “According to Daniel Spitz, chief medical examiner in Macomb County, Michigan, ‘I think a lot of clinicians are putting that condition [COVID-19] on death certificates when it might not be accurate because they died with coronavirus and not of coronavirus.’”

As soon as the CDC allowed “probable” (non-tested) deaths way back in the spring, some of us smelled a rat. But as H.L, Mencken, said “No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.”

demosthenes1d
demosthenes1d
8 months ago
Reply to  JP Stewart

COVID deaths undercount excess deaths. https://www.takimag.com/article/lets-be-over-and-done-in-21/

Clay Crouch
Clay Crouch
8 months ago
Reply to  JP Stewart

No, JP Stewart, over 3,000,000 total deaths in the US this year. The deadliest year in US history.

With words like “I think” and “it might not be accurate”, your quote from one doctor in Michigan isn’t what you hoped it to be. It must be of great comfort to you to ignore all the facts you don’t like. Unfortunately, they are still facts.

JP Stewart
JP Stewart
8 months ago
Reply to  Clay Crouch

Clay, you added nothing to the discussion except a 6th grade grammar mistake. Carry on.

Jonathan
Jonathan
8 months ago
Reply to  JP Stewart

The evidence that Demo posted, showing the Covid deaths are actually undercounted, not overcounted, appears very strong. Why haven’t you addressed it?

Ree
Ree
8 months ago
Reply to  Clay Crouch

Covid is a virus (not bacterial like the plague) and it’s asymptomatic or mild for most, serious for a minority, and deadly for a very small percentage. Mainly for the vulnerable elderly and some others with seriously compromised health. Although very high percentages even of the most vulnerable recover from covid. Among my in-laws in India, at least ten people have suffered from covid since September, including my 85-year-old mother-in-law who suffers from severe heart disease and diabetes, and is clinically obese, and all have recovered or are recovering well. (Incidentally, one of the likely reasons that they’ve done so… Read more »

demosthenes1d
demosthenes1d
8 months ago
Reply to  Ree

This is mostly a semantic argument about whether something is a “plague” and what number of deaths are required to qualify. 1. Plague can be used to refer to the black death, or illness caused by yersinia pestis. But it can also be used to refer to any infectious and deadly illness. Smallpox is/was a virus, it almost certainly killed more people than the bubonic plague, and in some outbreaks it killed 80+% of people. Viruses can be worse than bacteria, and are very likely to be so today due to cheap and effective antibiotics. 2. Plague is a term… Read more »

Ree
Ree
8 months ago
Reply to  demosthenes1d

It’s not minimizing the danger to correct an exaggeration of the danger. Covid has been pretty devastating, but it shouldn’t be responded to as if it were the Black Death. Clay was quoting Martin Luther’s response to a legitimate plague and misinterpreting Luther in the process. That’s what I was responding to.

Jane
Jane
8 months ago
Reply to  demosthenes1d

It’s also a mostly semantic argument to quibble over whether this needs to be called a plague when it resembles historic plagues in *neither* the nature of the illness *nor* the scale of loss of life and health. Three hundred thousand people in this country, horrible as it is, pales in comparison to the effect historic plagues have had on populations. By any measure, “this is no plague” is a fine statement to make, assuming Ree meant “this does not compare to past diseases we have named plagues in any important way”. Yes, you *can* call any mass disease that… Read more »

demosthenes1d
demosthenes1d
8 months ago
Reply to  Jane

Jane, You are right, I was a bit peevish, and unnecessarily so. I have been really irritated by the discourse on the issue, where the majority of people seem to either think that they need to wash every piece of mail they receive while wearing gloves, or that the virus is basically a hoax and those taking precautions are irrational (I’m basically taking no precautions beyond those required by law. and I think that is completely rational in my case). I wish we could all agree that this isn’t catastrophic end of civilization stuff, but that it is far and… Read more »

Clay Crouch
Clay Crouch
8 months ago
Reply to  demosthenes1d

Demo,

Of course this was meant a “semantic” description, not a medical diagnosis. And comparing the death rates of The Black Death and COVID-19 as apples to apples is not helpful. I’m sure Ree or Jane, or you or I have no way of knowing what a disease similar to Covid would have done to the populations of 16th century Europe.

Your last paragraph is spot on. From your lips to Wilson’s ears. We should be following the counsel of pandemic experts not preachers.

Jane
Jane
8 months ago
Reply to  Clay Crouch

I think we can judge that COVID would not have been as devastating to pre-modern or early modern Europe as the plagues, judging by the fact that the hospitalization rate for COVID is still far lower than the death rate for plague, and that a significant percentage of the co-morbidity risk factors are largely lifestyle-induced and less of a problem 500 years ago, than now.

demosthenes1d
demosthenes1d
8 months ago
Reply to  Jane

Better than the Black Death isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement! But just given the rate of severe illness in young people, the demographics of the premodern world, and the population densities, I dont expect COVID would have made the history books, much less have rivalled a civilization shaking plague. On the other hand, coronaviruses appear to be relatively recent. If there is cross reactivity of the immune system medieval man may have been more virally naive.

Jane
Jane
8 months ago
Reply to  demosthenes1d

Of course it’s not a ringing endorsement, but I’m not trying to give it a ringing endorsement. I’m just defending Ree’s entirely sensible point distinguishing this from the kind of devastation we got from historic plagues, or even the 1918 flu. Putting something in perspective and resisting calls to deny that perspective matters, is not minimizing.

demosthenes1d
demosthenes1d
8 months ago
Reply to  Jane

I was agreeing with you! :)

As I said, I doubt COVID would have even made the history books. Which is a testament to how good we have it.

Also, Merry Christmas and God Bless you all!

Jane
Jane
8 months ago
Reply to  demosthenes1d

Ah, gotcha.

And a Merry Christmas to you also.

demosthenes1d
demosthenes1d
8 months ago
Reply to  demosthenes1d

Would…wouldn’t… what is a phone induced typo between friends?!

Jane
Jane
8 months ago
Reply to  demosthenes1d

Demo, agreed.

Jonathan
Jonathan
8 months ago
Reply to  Clay Crouch

While an idiot, that’s just one guy. Look at the Florida attorney (Bill Price) who was in the process of attempting to commit voter fraud in Georgia and had instructed many others on how to do the same.

Chances are he wouldn’t have been able to shift more than a few dozen votes at most, but it further proves who is willing to defraud the real voters in order to win this election.

Jonathan
Jonathan
8 months ago

I had missed this – someone is indeed being investigated for attempting to orchestrate voter fraud. Too bad it happened at the Bay County GOP meeting in Florida. The amount of shameless lying on the part of Bill Price really should be embarrassing.

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/politics/florida-attorney-under-investigation-registering-vote-georgia-encouraging-others-do-same/L6LTC2AHBFDMXPOTZKVMO5ESJQ/

Luigi
Luigi
8 months ago
Reply to  Jonathan

I really wish I had your and Clay Crouch’s amount of free time. I wouldn’t spend it posting verbal diarrhea on a Presbyterian pastor’s blog, though

JP Stewart
JP Stewart
8 months ago

It’s very telling that Jonathan, who went into hysterical rants re: Roy Moore a few years ago (with his typical diarrhea-style comments), hasn’t brought up “Pastor” Raphael Warnock’s recently released bodycam footage. He called Moore a “child molester” before there was evidence was brought up. And even when it was, his beloved WaPo “investigation” was little more than a he-said, she-said, 11th hour attempt to malign a conservative candidate that hasn’t aged very well. But of course he shows no self-righteous indignation about a woke, pro-LGBTQ, pro-abortion hypocrite. Warnock fits right in with those whose lifestyles and stances mock Christ…but… Read more »

Luigi
Luigi
8 months ago
Reply to  JP Stewart

Warnock is a real piece of work

demosthenes1d
demosthenes1d
8 months ago
Reply to  JP Stewart

Give us some evidence JP! I have seriously looked high and low and found absolutely nothing. I’m perfectly willing to be convinced, but YouTube videos just isn’t going to cut it.

JP Stewart
JP Stewart
8 months ago
Reply to  demosthenes1d

Demo, you went along the WaPo hack job on Moore, and didn’t call out Jonathan’s nonsense, such as calling Moore a “child molester” when the first headline surfaced with no evidence. Suddenly “beileve all womyn!” doesn’t work when it comes to Biden and Warnock, though?
https://news.yahoo.com/police-reports-detail-warnock-obstruction-161038719.html

demosthenes1d
demosthenes1d
8 months ago
Reply to  JP Stewart

JP, I was referring to the end of your comment regarding voter fraud, hence the reference to videos). As I noted above, Trump’s big issues weren’t in big cities, they were in relatively well off suburbs. I would like to see SOMETHING that could constitute real evidence of fraud in those places. I could care less about Warnock. I don’t live in Georgia and would never vote for the guy if I did. WRT Moore, I would have to see some evidence that I “went along with Jonathan.” I think some of Moore’s past (things that are well attested to)… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
8 months ago
Reply to  demosthenes1d

I also have never said nor held the “believe all women” position, if my actual views and statements count for anything where JP is concerned.

Jonathan
Jonathan
8 months ago
Reply to  JP Stewart

AFAIK, I have never spoken or written Warnock’s name in my life, nor have I seen any conversations about him here, nor did I have any clue what “bodycam footage” I was supposed to be indignant about when I read your comment. Outside of him being a black pastor and running for office under the democratic ticket, I hardly know him. So what are your accusations about me based on other than a desire to attack me to distract from other conversations?

Jonathan
Jonathan
8 months ago
Reply to  JP Stewart

So far as Roy Moore goes, when I used “child molester” in an inappropriate way, I apologized within a day. Yet you have continued to attack, so I’ll just copy-and-paste the response I made to you 2 years ago: “I made one error, over a year ago, and repented for it (and posted that apology in three different relevant threads to ensure that everyone possibly effected could see it, even though the conversation had moved on in two of them). You are not only continuing to try to use that one error against me, but even trying to use my… Read more »

Dave
Dave
8 months ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Jonathan, you haven’t apologized for the many times you have called me a liar. I don’t care because I know that I have typed truthfully and your problem is with the most high God, not me. Why should anyone apologize to you? You are a Christian brother standing in the gates asking for others to follow him along a bad path. As we celebrate Christmas, consider just how bad it can be under the DNC/CPUSA leadership. Have you read the points that the Democratic Socialists are calling for? Have you read the comments in national news made by elected officials… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
8 months ago
Reply to  Dave

Dave, refusing to accept repentance is wrong no matter what you think of the person repenting. You seem to have the Golden Rule exactly backwards.

And yes, at times you have made claims that weren’t true, such as your insistence that Clinton embarrassingly called to eliminate “cattle guards” on national television. It is my right to point out that supposedly public events didn’t actually happen. You keep running to this defense of, “Are you calling me a liar???” as if it’s wrong for me to point to truth.

kyriosity
kyriosity
8 months ago

If Jeff would share what area of the country he’s interested in, we might could point him to some other likeminded communities. A couple that come to mind are Refuge Church in Ogden, Utah, pastored by Brian Sauvé (http://www.RefugeUtah.org/), and East River Church (http://www.eastriverchurch.org/) in Batavia, Ohio, being planted by Michael Foster. They’re both attempting to do something similar to the Moscow project.

Breda
Breda
8 months ago

Hey Doug—red alert–red alert!!

They’re talking of a more virulent form of the covirus now—big trouble in the UK and Europe over it.

Red alert! Red alert! Tell all your readers bro!!!

Conspiracy! Conspiracy! Conspiracy!

Why those good for nothing lying cheating doctors and politicians—will they stop at nothing to stop us loyal servants of the living God?

They’re coming after us bro’–they’re coming–but walk tall–and of course don’t wear a mask.

No surrender!!!
No surrender!!!

Ken B
Ken B
8 months ago
Reply to  Breda

I need to test this with the irony software, but, and I kid you not, there are still numpties in the UK who claim this is all a hoax. Mind-numbingly stupid.

Valerie Jacobsen
Valerie Jacobsen
8 months ago

“My conviction about the election is based on a comparison of the Trump and Biden campaigns, the media’s behavior during the campaign, Big Tech’s brazen censorship of voices questioning the results of the election, the last minute changes in voting processes, court battles to prevent third party forensic analysis, and the physical possibility of fraud.” Presupposing the existence of election fraud and shared secret knowledge of it, sure– *Biden & Co ran a quiet campaign because they knew. *The media created content and social media tagged posts because they knew. *State and local authorities made changes because they knew. *Defendants… Read more »

Jane
Jane
8 months ago

I got blasted on Facebook for asking a friend, “But what if Biden actually did get more votes?” I am trying to figure out why 1) that is ruled out as the possible explanation for his appearing to have gotten more votes and 2) how it would look different from how it looks now to those who believe he did not, if he actually did. We always knew mail in voters were more likely to fall into the Biden camp. We always knew he was going to depend heavily on urban and inner suburban districts for most of his votes.… Read more »

JohnM
JohnM
8 months ago
Reply to  Jane

Jane,

It may be beside the main subject here, but do you see a reason Americans choosing to vote for Biden suggests a much heavier judgment than did Americans choosing to vote into office any prior President?

Jane
Jane
8 months ago
Reply to  JohnM

His obvious unfitness for the position sets him apart from other candidates who “only” had wicked policies or bad characters (Joe was the trifecta). The idea that an electoral majority of people could either delude themselves that he was competent to hold office or else voted for a man they realized was in too poor a state of physical and mental health to effectively serve, shows there’s more at work than the usual selfish desires that drive votes. There’s a kind of madness on top of it.

JohnM
JohnM
8 months ago
Reply to  Jane

Your reasoning makes sense. You may be letting some other candidates off too easy.

Jane
Jane
8 months ago
Reply to  JohnM

I don’t think we’ve had an obviously senile or otherwise objectively mentally unfit candidate in living memory.

JohnM
JohnM
8 months ago
Reply to  Jane

I think your assessment of Biden’s may be a little pessimistic. In plain terms, he certainly is too old to be President. His relatively diminished mental acuity, typical for his age, is one of the reasons neither he, nor anyone his age should be President. Perhaps that is all you mean by “senile”? However, I see nothing more severe than that. Even in his younger days he was known as a jabberer whose mouth outran his mind, and I think some of what you observe is just that. I am incredulous that, after the last four years of rambling, incoherent… Read more »

Jane
Jane
8 months ago
Reply to  JohnM

Fool and mentally unfit are distinct ideas. There is nothing about Trump to indicate that he is not in possession of his faculties, just that he is foolish, undisciplined, and intemperate in speech. I.e., he uses those faculties very badly. Biden not being any worse than a typical man of his age is entirely beside the point. (Besides being false. The vast majority of men in their late 70s I have known have not descended into incoherence on a regular basis.) The point is that large numbers of people voting for an obvious mental incompetent can only result from some… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
8 months ago
Reply to  Jane

Mary Trump, who is both a trained clinical psychologist with a PhD in Advanced Psychological Studies as well as the president’s own niece, has both said herself that her uncle is mentally unfit as well as lambasted the American Psychological Association for muzzling its members on this issue. There are numerous articles out there describing why people feel Trump is unfit, taking into account his words, movements, and actions. Several of them have come from Republicans. I agree with JohnM that Biden is too old to be president and has clearly lost a step but gives no appearance of being… Read more »

The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
8 months ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Jonathan: “[Biden] gives no appearance of being senile.” Oh, yes; I absolutely agree. No appearance of senility when your guy can’t complete a sentence, loses his train of thought, botches the Declaration of Independence (“All men and women created by — you know, you know, the thing”) and can’t even get insults right (“You’re a one-horse pony”). Nope, no senility there. As a Christian, you should be especially comforted that your guy Biden has such a deep, intimate relationship with the Divine that he uses only the most sensitive, touching terms of endearment with Him (“the thing”). Thanks for the… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
8 months ago

If losing your train of thought, failing to complete sentences, and getting sayings wrong were evidence of senility, wouldn’t both George W. Bush and Donald J. Trump have been considered senile? Now, did you simultaneously claim to diagnose someone’s mental health at a distance and then claim it was wrong to do so? And for the record, Biden is not “my guy”, I am not a Democrat nor did I vote for Biden in the primaries or the general, nor do I expect that he will do a good job as president. But I do know that Biden has both… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
8 months ago

Also, after I said: Mary Trump, who is both a trained clinical psychologist with a PhD in Advanced Psychological Studies as well as the president’s own niece, has both said herself that her uncle is mentally unfit as well as lambasted the American Psychological Association for muzzling its members on this issue. You replied: On a more, shall we say, ethical note, apparently the wanton disregard of the APA’s established standards of conduct by Mary Trump, PhD in Advanced Psychological Studies, doesn’t bother you one iota. Perhaps it’s because you’re ignorant. That would be the charitable assumption. To educate yourself… Read more »

The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
8 months ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Ah yes, whenever the problem of Biden’s senility comes up, there’s no better response than to sputter “But Twump! But Twump!” By the way, dementia isn’t a mental illness; it’s a physiological illness. Why it doesn’t bother you that your Democrat masters abuse the elderly is beyond me. And the alleged stutter? Please. As if we needed any more proof that you let the lying, incompetent media do all your thinking for you. We all know what a stutter is, no matter how hard you try to gaslight. Biden has a lot of things wrong with him (and I mean… Read more »

JohnM
JohnM
8 months ago
Reply to  Jane

Possibly you’ve paid more attention to Biden than I have. I’ve never made a habit of listening to Joe Biden, it seems like a bad one to form, but the times I have, I’ve heard nothing that would suggest to me “dementia”, which is what I take you to imply. I did not refer to incoherence but to relatively diminished mental acuity. That it happens *to some degree* by the time a person is in their late 70’s is typical, even if the degree can vary widely. All that said, at his age we should not be surprised by any… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
8 months ago
Reply to  Jane

I think we have an objectively mentally unfit candidate in office right now, but that isn’t stopping anyone. White House staff in both the Trump and Reagan presidencies seriously discussed invoking the 25th Amendment.

Biden is a poor candidate that I didn’t support in primaries or general, but Trump is a poor candidate too. There are numerous reasons why most Americans would vote against Trump regardless of the opposition, and I difficulty at this point understanding how anyone outside of a very particular bubble wouldn’t see that.

Jonathan
Jonathan
8 months ago
Reply to  Jane

Here’s a long quote: Reagan’s doctors said much the same thing while he was in office despite the former president’s memory lapses and bouts of confusion in public, most visibly during the 1984 presidential debates and his 1990 Iran-Contra testimony. Incidents such as these led to speculation that he was undergoing a gradual mental decline that those around him didn’t want to admit. A 1987 article in the New Republic posed the troubling question outright: “Is Reagan Senile?” That was precisely what CBS News reporter Lesley Stahl was asking herself during a 1986 visit with a president she would later… Read more »

Dave
Dave
8 months ago
Reply to  Jane

Jane, in all probability, Biden did get more votes. However, that is not the critical question. The real question is: Were the votes legitimate or not? The answer they were not. http://www.senatorligon.com/THE_FINAL%20REPORT.PDF This report provides evidence that supports the conclusion that the Georgia election “was chaotic and the results cannot be trusted.” (pg 12) The report itself is an easy read; however, it also shows the extreme corruption and the lengths that the DNC/CPUSA went to throw the Georgia election. The same could be said of the other contested states, except that evidence hasn’t seen the light of day. That’s… Read more »

Jane
Jane
8 months ago
Reply to  Dave

In saying “more votes” I was assuming more legitimate votes. This is not the same thing as saying that all reported votes were legitimate, just that you’re not going to find enough fraudulent ones to change the outcome.

Dave
Dave
8 months ago
Reply to  Jane

Jane, there was plenty of fraud in the other states and that has not been allowed to come to the surface. The Georgia report shows just how corrupted that election was and it is similar to the other states in question. More than enough to show that the lawful votes would, without doubt, produce more than 270 electors for Trump. God is in control and this could be a time for America to be scolded for the national sins that we all participate in. If so, pray that many would come to the cross and that God would wield a… Read more »

Clay Crouch
Clay Crouch
8 months ago

That sort of evidence isn’t needed for this sort of thesis: We had a fraudulent election, and they knew it, and their behaviors reveal that they knew it, which shows that we had a fraudulent election. (What do we call this kind of reasoning?)

This is called Doug Wilson Reasoning. This was one of his comments: “Biden can’t win without cheating. Biden won, therefore, he cheated.” Let hope he doesn’t teach an Intro to Symbolic Logic at New St. Andrews College.