General Strike
Could you please cash out what a general strike, as you suggested, would look like? What steps would need to be taken specifically? What is needed? How do you do it? When do you do it? Are there any times you would not recommend a general strike? What backlash do you need to anticipate? In short, how does one, as Jesus advised, consider the opposing force and know if you have the horsepower to take them on or to seek terms of peace?Todd
Todd, the question of “how do you know it is the right time?” is the question that the key organizer would have to seize. And what he would do is just announce it. Run the flag up the pole and see if anyone salutes. The first phase should be doable—1 to 3 days. Everybody stays home. Then . . . can we talk? If no, then 3 to 5 days. Be prepared to coordinate from jail. Repeat
Re “Belfast Blues:” 100% agree (!!), and would add the specific suggestion that the demand of a general strike be a general election within 30 days.Andrew
Andrew, yes. Very good.
All Arranged
Re; Henry and Eve.
I think it is safe to say that the first wedding was also an arranged marriage. Perhaps that should be the model for all marriages.
Enjoy your perspective on these issues.Kevin
Kevin, yes. The first marriage was most certainly an arranged one. As for whether they should all be that way, I am not there. But I do believe in significant parental involvement, as possible.
Las Vegasification
Do you have thoughts about the “Las Vegasification” of the U.S. under MAGA? The UCF fight on the White House lawn is the latest instance, but It all is so corny and tacky, and very little involves the transmission of custom (and therefore collective memory) from one generation to another. Their patriotism is mostly performative commitment that confirms the left’s silliest assumptions about the aesthetic taste of white Americans.
I regret the fall of an intelligent culture on the right. At the same time, it’s hard to ask for this without coming off as a scold.
How do we ask for a White House Lawn Psalm sing? Maybe that’s the solution.No
No, it would be hard to deny the tacky elements. But I am not all in a dither over it because I think it is part and parcel with this populist moment . . . which I think will pass. It is a reset, and what it is resetting is the hypocrisy of all the respectable defilements that have been going on at the White House for years now. Remember the topless tranny that respectable Washington just took right in stride. But after everybody has had their fun, it really should go back to a true normal.
Our Invisible Friend
I strongly urge my fellow skeptics to stop debating Christians. Here is why:
Sincerely,Gary
Gary, want to know what else is invisible? Gravity, the laws of logic, quarks, and the fairies at the bottom of the garden.
Too Fastidious?
Is there a way to be too fastidious with restitution/asking forgiveness, particularly when they are sins committed as a child/teenager?
An example would be if I were to have broke my classmate’s toy in elementary and not replace it, should I be replacing it now as an adult? Another example would be remembering something in high school I said to another classmate that I regret now. If I don’t currently have a way to contact them, should I be trying to find a way to contact them now?
I would say I have a sensitive conscience and “suffer” from morbid introspection when it comes to the Christian life. This bothers me because I remember sins from my youth, and then I think “I better ask for forgiveness from others for any and all sins I remember otherwise God won’t let me into Heaven if I die tonight.” Obviously that’s not correct, but to affirm the exact opposite isn’t right either. I could use some wisdom on this. Thank you.Joshua
Joshua, there will be some things you can’t put right because you have no idea where the person is. If it is just an apology owed, confess it to God and give it to God. If it is a property issue, estimate the value, and give that to your church’s deacons fund. I knew a man, for example, who knew that he had stolen stuff from a garage “somewhere in Boise.” Give that amount to the poor. If you still are in contact with the person, go ahead and put it right—but if you are a fastidious sort, make sure that you only do it once.
Actual Boomer Numbers
“Boomer Wars”
It doesn’t destroy the validity of your argument, but one can’t add the actual number of babies born to those criminally aborted and claim that would have been the actual number of babies born. Maybe, maybe not. Likely not, likely something in between.Preston
Preston, cheerfully granted. Remember the back of the napkin.
When it comes to Boomers and all the economic stuff associated with them, one assumption I hear all the time is that all their wealth will eventually be passed down. But unfortunately that ain’t so. The vast majority of it will be swallowed up in end-of-life care because the Boomers want to live independently and the younger generations don’t want to take them in. Case in point, I know a family that pays $300,000 a year to care for the aging mother, but they justify it because “she has it saved up.” That will swallow up an inheritance mighty fast.Andrew
Andrew, yes. That is a factor. I don’t know about the “vast majority of it” though.
A doctor of mine pointed out that the infant mortality rate made the early 19 century numbers look a lot worse than they were. Strange that we have improved infant mortality significantly but also choose to end so many pregnancies.
I enjoy your articles and podcasts.
ThanksPaul
Paul, thanks.
Parenting Challenges
Greetings from the Texas Bible Belt,
I read your book, Standing on the Promises. While I found myself nodding along and empowered to regroup some parenting woes, I was also searching for more. As a mom of six, one of my children does not respond to discipline. By this, I mean he does not accept discipline. The rod is met with gritted teeth, no tears, no remorse, and right back to “the vomit.” Any removal of privileges results in stealing or conning to take the items back. Removing him from a situation results in him coming right back through breaking down doors, screaming, and violence. He does not accept responsibility and although we are not giving into a child led house, the constant attention needed for him to uphold basic rules in the home results in a ton of lost time and energy for the other five children, and frankly, is often dangerous. Really, the question is, how can we make a child care? We’re are desperately trying to “lead a horse to water” but feel stuck in the “can’t make him drink” part.Randi
Randi, when confronted with a challenging situation like this (and it sounds genuinely challenging), but sure to contextualize it properly. Instead of think that your discipline “isn’t’ working,” ask yourself how it would go for this child if he were not disciplined at all. You didn’t mention how old he is, but I would try to arrange your affairs such that the bulk of his discipline comes from dad. Don’t give up on him . . . and don’t resent him.
Ethnic Balance
What’s the secret to not going in the wrong direction with the teaching on masculinity, race relations, etc? I find it very easy, at least for myself, to swerve into more sexist and racist tendencies—I define those two ‘ist’s by biblical standards, of course. It is all too easy to see that there is something wrong with the culture surrounding the womenfolk and the foreigners—but I don’t want to revert to the days where men could mistreat their wives, their very own bodies, or enslave fellow men, their brethren in Christ.
I think (if I may venture my own theory—I would still desire your answer to the question above) it is easy to swerve this way because we (white males) have forgotten what the Ivory Tower feels like to inhabit, and so we are all too easily tempted into ascending it again. The culture has been glorifying the opposite for a while; let us call it ‘the tar hut’, for simplicity; in the Ivory Tower, there are the sins of superiority—pride, disdain, castes, injustice, irresponsibility, and all such other sins—but in the tar hut, there are the sins of lowliness; envy, rebellion, and general scallywaggling. This is all of the ‘effin on the blim-blam,’ the culture that both glorifies violence, theft, and infidelity, and yet is horrified at violence, theft, and infidelity.
I do not of course think that we should stay in the tar hut either, residing with orcs (I refer here not to race but to the type of men and women so imbibed on the filth of the culture they cease to be rational—melanin has no bearing here, although culture and heritage do), but neither should we, as my own temptations bid, go to live with Saruman in Isengard. (You already know that the one directs the other- moving between the two is not a solution in the same way that switching from playing black to white on a chess board is not leaving the game—and was not Saruman barbaric, even primitive, himself?).
Still, I suppose you will have a better answer to my question than me—otherwise I would not still be asking it.Aidan
Aidan, I don’t think you need help figuring it out. It sounds to me like you have it figured out. The hard part is doing it . . . avoiding relapses into carnal categories. The issue is culture, and culture is a function of worship, faith, and religion. Cretans are ethical losers . . . so rebuke them sharply so that they may be sound in the faith.
Brick and Mortar v. Online
Not addressing a specific blog of yours. Love your content.
Please address the split between brick-and-mortar preachers who have significant risk in addressing hard questions (scared people don’t come back = lost tithe) versus online preachers like yourself who seem to benefit from the opposite behavior (bored people don’t come back = lost clicks). There are obviously more angles than this, so pile ’em on.
I’m just looking for ways to help my preacher to use a better, biblical balance of risk-taking. Further, how can the average believer balance normalcy bias against standing on the joy of the Lord against nailing 95 paranoid memes against a cop’s armor plate? How do we live in these 2020 twilight times where nothing is right if you’re 20 and nothing is wrong if you’re 50, all at the same time? Reminds me of Jay Rosen’s “regression to a false mean.” Clowns to the Left of Me, Jokers to the Right: On the Actual Ideology of the American Press
Sorry for the rambling.Anon
Anon, not a ramble at all. The one thing I would add to your statement about the dilemma is that I think online types should prove their chops in local ministry first. Learning to deal with real people will tend to supply real ballast. I believe the local balance of nourishing food and biblical confrontation transfers well to online ministry, and it doesn’t go the other way.
Wanted to ask, what are your thoughts on efficient learning techniques for teaching yourself something, especially from people like Cal Newport and Scott H. Young? I ask because I’ve found some of their methods work for me, but I don’t know how to think of them in light of a Christian Worldview, especially in regards to learning for a Classical Christian Education.Kurosaki
Kurosaki, if there is nothing contrary to Scripture in the methods they urge, and you find it works for you, then don’t worry about it. Do it, and adjust as you go. If someone proposed founding a school based on these methods, I would want to do a lot more research because it is possible that 98% of the kids don’t learn the way you do.
Long Letters
I like how you interspersed your answers in Judah’s very long letter on June 9. Not always needed, but a good approach for the long ones.Craig
Craig, thank you.
A Kuyper Question
“No longer a nursing father, he is now a nurse practitioner at the assisted suicide clinic.” Well that was a punchy ending! Well said!
As background, I come from the continental Reformed tradition (subscribing to the Belgic Confession, Heidelberg Catechism, and Canons of Dort). I appreciate what I’ve read of the Westminster, but don’t subscribe to it.
I’m wondering if you have any familiarity with Abraham Kuyper and his political views. Roughly while he was running for Prime Minister (and was elected) the General Synod 1905 of the Reformed churches he was a part of removed a section from the Belgic Confession article 36 (I will bracket off the removed section). It reads: The government’s “task of restraining and sustaining is not limited to the public order but includes the protection of the church and its ministry in order that [all idolatry and false worship may be removed and prevented, the kingdom of antichrist may be destroyed], the kingdom of Christ may come, the Word of the gospel may be preached everywhere, and God may be honoured and served by everyone, as he requires in his Word.” The Belgic Confession used in my church has those bracketed words in a footnote, stating when they were removed.
Do you have any thoughts on the removal of those words?
Ought these words to be affirmed?
Does the removal of these words actually change any content (since the coming of Christ’s kingdom corresponds to the destruction of the kingdom of antichrist)? Or was this change encouraged just as a political move by Kuyper?
Thanks for any thoughts you can share and God bless,Caleb
Caleb, I would consider myself, generally speaking, to be Kuyperian. I have appreciated a lot of what he contributed. At the same time, I believe the removal of that part of the Belgic Confession was a huge mistake, and left the door ajar for all kinds of bad juju. For further reading.
Women and Education
I hope you’re doing well! I have a question regarding some back-and-forth that I have seen on the Internet regarding women and their roles in higher education. I apologize for the length; I have to give some context, since this is a growing issue in the great grand world of the internet.
I’m not interested in the whole “he said, she said”- type talk going on on the Internet; it feels a little too catty high school-girl-ish, and I should hope we are all far past that. However, please indulge me for a little bit. Recently, the Jolly Brawler mentioned something about a young lady at NSA commenting on higher education and women, located at this link:
I included the Eric Conn part of the conversation to show some are moving the conversation on the internet to say that both your son and NSA are encouraging feminist weeds to grow among the young ladies at NSA/in Moscow. I originally heard the quote that people are flinging about from “Stories are Soul Food,” and I completely understood what he meant in the original context.
The claim now is that fathers who do not wish their young ladies to become feminists ought to discourage them from attending universities. Those who agree with this also view women’s attendance at universities/in higher education as inherently feminist/Marxist in nature (see this link. Obviously, I am aware that his claim, “The argument that women need higher education so they can raise godly sons actually goes back to the French Revolution period . . .” is historically inaccurate, but that is not the crux of the issue.
The argument goes something like: “Because women must be under the authority of a man at all times, her leaving that authority under any circumstance is unlawful/unrighteous, and may encourage her toward either feminism or self-harm. Encouraging women to seek higher education cultivates a burgeoning rebel within her, and will ultimately lead her to, at least, risk becoming a boss-babe-wannabe. This makes her a less-desirable potential wife for a godly Christian man.”
Ever since, I have read similar discourses on Twitter/X that young ladies ought not to receive a really thorough education during high school, since their focus is to be at home; nothing in their upbringing or home education should encourage distraction from such things. Being outside of their father’s protection and headship would not only complicate things but would also entice them toward feminist tendencies.
I have lots of thoughts on this, tending toward the negative, but I wanted to know your specific thoughts on this. Again, I’m not trying to stir up unnecessary controversy or divide the Body; rather, I think this is a topic that deserves a good, thorough investigation. Friends of mine at church and I have already talked about this at length, so I know it’s been a hot topic.ON
ON, this would be my response in short form. First, it is quite true that most university education available today has a real potential to wreck your kid. The problem that Eric is trying to address is a real problem. Second, there is more than one way to turn out feminist daughters. You could send to the Leviathan State U to major in being a girl-boss. That’s one way. But you could also have her grow up under the thumb of a blustering male ignoramus. So it is that the ranks of the feminists are filled out with the liberated and the survivors. And third, the NSA anecdote is accurate as far as it goes, but out of context. Contrary to Eric’s statement, the NSA education is not a vocational training program, but rather an education for life—and wives and mothers live a life, just like everybody else. If you miss that point, then the “for breeding purposes only” statement applies. Think for a minute. Who is the principal instructor in a home school? And do you want the instructor of your grandsons to have just enough education to be able to read the instructions on the side of a box of biscuit mix?
Ethnicity a Natural Good
Having read both the PCA report and your response to it, I’m curious as to your thoughts concerning the section which condemns those who view ethnic homogeneity as a positive good. They cite Galatians 3:28 to support this claim. Without delving into the dank corners of “race realism,” which I believe can certainly go too far, it still seems that the PCA report is engaging in a category error in using this verse, which is referring to the unity of the Church in Christ as regards salvation by grace through faith, and applying it to the Civil realm. It appears self-evident that ethnic homogeneity within a society is indeed a positive good (I’m using Wolfe’s definition of ethnicity, which would see someone like Clarence Thomas as part of Anglo-Protestant culture, despite being a black Catholic) and promotes civil peace and order within a society. This obviously cannot justify mistreating anyone, but it does not appear to be out-of-bounds for civil rulers in Japan, for example, to have immigration policies that take into account the assimilatability of various countries in order to preserve the ethnic make-up of their own country. Additionally, it seems as if the PCA’s application of Galatians would also require the state to have no laws which recognize the differences between men and women, as they are both one in Christ. Am I missing something? What is your understanding of this part of their report, and would you agree with my analysis or disagree?
God bless,JS
JS, I agree with you. Ethnic homogeneity is a positive good. But cosmopolitan hot pot jumbles are also a positive good. The problems arise when someone takes either one of those positive goods and goes imperialistic with it—requiring everybody else to be like them.
Re: Las Vegasification, This is such an easy call……It’s not going back to normal!
History is full of examples where things get weird and then go back to normal. Why do you think we are an exception?
Randi, A couple thoughts from a seasoned parent who has been through the wars, offered for your prayerful consideration. You may already have addressed the issue of consistency, but we found that when we were inconsistent in our discipline, the path to obedience was delayed. In other words, if the child finds he can “get away with it” once in a while, he’s more hardened to try it again. Sort of like the thought in Ecclesiastes 8:11. This is very hard to achieve and especially with the number of children you have, bless you. The other thought is, consider whether… Read more »
“Beating” a child? Absolutely not necessary. How about build a trusting, respectful, reciprocal relationship with your kid(s)? Do you hit adults when they misbehave?
“Do you hit adults when they misbehave?”
An odd argument, as people hit adults all the time when they misbehave. Far more frequently than they do children.
But is that ok? If you hit an adult, would they have a problem with it? Yes…kids are kids…don’t hit.
“But is that ok?” That’s the very thing under argument. You can’t take it as assumed as a prerequisite for your reasoning, that would be begging the quesiton. “If you hit an adult, would they have a problem with it? Yes…” Everyone has a problem with being punished in any way whatsoever. By this reasoning, you should ban all punishments. You are offering no argument whatsoever. You haven’t given a single coherent reason anyone shouldn’t spank. I understand you feel that its obviously abusive, but just saying “obviously” in several different ways does nothing to convince other people of your… Read more »
Justin, nicely said, but if you’ve seen E’s posts in the past, you’ll readily see that he (or she?) is much more enamored of his own opinions than of Scripture. He seems never to discuss issues Biblically, so I’m not sure why he chooses to interact in this space other than perhaps as a gadfly to entertain himself by eliciting reactions. From his history, not worth engaging seriously…my observation for what it’s worth.
Ha, you know me so well! Discipline is necessary; spanking is not. Can you not think of any other ways to “train up your child” besides hitting them? Surely, you’re more creative than that, right? You can cherry-pick proverbs 13:24 and 23:13-14, but the focus, if you choose to see it, is on discipline and not corporal punishment. You look at those and put the emphasis on “rod”, but my argument is that the emphasis should be on “discipline”. Bring in Psalm 23, and you have a real mind-f, because there it talks about the rod being a comfort. So,… Read more »
Bless you.
…is that all? Not willing to grapple with the issue? Need more substance?
I’ve provided some biblical arguments, which you say I don’t do, and now you have nothing to say? Good one.
OK, I’ll roll it once more: Proverbs 13:24.
Throwing another Bible verse doesn’t solve anything…as I mentioned, the emphasis there should be on discipline and not the “rod” (y’all are always obsessed with sexual metaphors, which is probably what you’re hung up on). Anything about Jesus you want to mention? He focused on kindness, gentleness, love and grace…he taught that discipline was about teaching and guidance, not spanking/violence/corporal punishment. He came and served the least of these, which children definitely were and are a part of. Shouldn’t we do the same? Wanna dig out any other OT gems?
Oh you’re right on all counts Seasoned, but the reality is that I peruse this board for sport more than anything else. Its a place where not only people have wrong opinions on important topics, but where many if not most readers understand logic and burdens of proof. If I went and started these argument on facebook, nobody would appreciate my points at all, because nobody understands or cares about coherency. So no, I don’t expect E to appreciate what I’m saying, but I expect you to appreciate what I’m saying, hence why I conduct my recreational argument here rather… Read more »
“Oh you’re right on all counts Seasoned, but the reality is that I peruse this board for sport more than anything else.”
As I have noted before, that’s evident from the lack of seriousness of the posting you take in arguments.
“An odd argument, as people hit adults all the time when they misbehave. Far more frequently than they do children.”
Nah, that’s absolute nonsense. I have lived in several very different societies, and not one of them involved adults hitting other adults for misbehavior remotely as often as adults hit children.
Something missing in this is an attempt to find out why the child is so bolshy.
This could be the result of bullying inside or outside of the home, or worst case scenario sexual or other abuse even from inside the church. No amount of ‘rod’ will do any good if this is the case.
Though not my own family when young, I have sadly some experience of seeing this happen.
This was almost exactly my thought. Randi, the type of behaviour you describe isn’t necessarily just a simple discipline issue. Sometimes there’s something deeply wrong, and not the child’s fault, on a physiological or social level. (For example, I know someone who as a child frequently had seemingly unprovoked angry outbursts that suddenly made sense when it was discovered that he was unusually sensitive to things that other people could brush off. He’d been given the same level of instruction on dealing with pain as his siblings, but his pain was much more severe, and so he needed much more… Read more »
I was thinking the same thing. I am a mother of six ‘in the trenches’ with six children also- and one child who ‘doesn’t respond to our parenting.’ This child turns out to have significant allergies- food chemicals (like even the natural colours in fruit and vegetables) pile up in his liver and then get dumped into the bloodstream all at once, causing a drug like reaction to the brain. Aggression, emotional lack of control, violence- you name it. We spent years disciplining him just like our other kids and wondering why we were getting different results. Through much prayer,… Read more »
Mrs. L, that does sound really hard. Your child is very blessed to have parents who were able to figure things out and work to improve his life given the physical constraints of his condition, and I think it’s also a very significant blessing for you to be entrusted by God with this child who needs that hard work from his parents–at the very least you now have knowledge and wisdom that could be lifechanging for other families in situations like yours. I’m wishing the best for your whole family!
The UFC event at the White House celebrated America, not the gods of the urban supremacists, therefore, regardless of what the event actually was, they would hate it.
Donald Trump is as purely an “Urban Supremacist” who cares less about America (or God, for that matter)than any other person in politics. Remember that “Anerica’s 250th” was only the paper-thin pretext for the event. The actual occasion being celebrated was his own birthday.
89% of senior citizens support raising taxes on younger workers to maintain their Social Security benefits.
https://x.com/GreenPlusAnE/status/2066950671157350423
You know what else is invisible?
Gary’s mind.
Huh. Maybe there is something to this skeptic logic, after all.
Hi fp,
I never said that invisible things do not exist. Gravity exists even though I can’t see it. I simply asked for evidence that invisible friends exist. I respect Jesus as a wonderful human being and humanitarian. I personally don’t believe he ever claimed to be a god (he would have been stoned on the spot if he had). But is there any good evidence that the spirit of this good man (man/god, per your perspective) “dwells within you”, as Christians claim? That is my question.
Jesus was almost stoned on the spot after he declared “The Father and I are one” (John 10:27-38)
The good evidence you seek is out there in the world: “you will know them by their fruits” (Matthew 7:16-23)
The pagan world of old was filled with slaves, gladiators and prostitutes
The Christian world which replaced it was filled with cathedrals, hospitals and monogamy. It was built by men who were animated by faith in that god-man.
The transition was long, difficult and never complete. The contest between the two worlds continues today. Which do you prefer?
So you are saying that if a group of like-minded people are good and kind, this is an indication that their supernatural beliefs are true? If that were correct, Mormons would win hands down. Mormons have to be the nicest people on the planet. And Utah has one of the lowest crime rates in the country. But I will bet that you and most other Trinitarian Christians here believe that Mormons are completely bonkers to believe that the creator God, who lives on planet Kolob and engages in non-stop sex with his large harem of wives, sent Joseph Smith to… Read more »
Mormons inherited much of Christian morality (except for monogamy) and exist within a wider culture which is also coasting along on a (diminishing) Christian inheritance.
The peaceful Japanese society of the 21st century is markedly different from pre-Western-contact Japanese society.
The idea of universal rights endowed upon every human by a beneficent creator is antithetical to the selfish interests of the rich and powerful. It was Christians (often at the cost of their lives) who brought this into every corner of the world.
Replacing polygamy with monogamy was perhaps an even more challenging accomplishment.
Are modern Christian-majority societies an improvement in the overall human condition in comparison to the barbarism of Antiquity? Absolutely! I am in total agreement with you.
But just because a supernatural belief causes you (and others in society) to be kinder and more law-abiding compared to other belief systems does not prove it true. Can we agree on that?
Example: If I tell my children that if they do not behave the Boogie man under their beds is going to get them…and immediately their behavior dramatically improves, does that prove that the Boogie man exists? Of course not. Religions have served the purpose of providing human cultures with the rules of behavior for the society in question for millennia. This is one of the positive aspects of religion. Instilling fear of invisible gods and devils worked very well among the superstitious peoples of Antiquity. This fear gave the society peace, security, and order. Fear of the invisible “boogie man”… Read more »
As Lincoln was quoted as saying:
Human beings are generally skilled at pattern recognition. Lies can motivate many for a period of time – but lies eventually fail logical analysis and/or collide with observable reality.
The pagan religions of old all eventually flamed out due to this.
With the rise of AI, this process may be on the cusp of rapidly accelerating.
Experiments in science do not provide absolute proof that a scientific hypothesis is true. Experiments can either invalidate a hypothesis (if they fail) or support it (if they succeed).
You can think of a religion as a social experiment of a religious hypothesis. Most religions eventually collapse because they fail to explain observable reality or they contain logical contradictions.
Christianity’s survival, spread and civilizational success for 2000 years does not provide absolute proof that it is true, but it does provide tangible support for its veracity.
Aren’t Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, and Buddhism older than Christianity? You may be right in regards to the reason for Christianity’s success. I can’t prove you wrong. But some would say that Christianity in the West only survived because it was adopted by Constantine’s mother and then by the king of the Franks. In the East, the cradle of Christianity, Christianity was conquered and subjugated by Muslims overlords for almost 1,500 years. So I would say that it is very possible that Christianity’s success is the result of blind luck not divine intervention. Do you have any other evidence that the spirit… Read more »
Hey Gary, Regarding having Christ in one’s heart- it is a matter of experience I believe. I know that sounds like an easy answer, but it is also a biblical one. The blind man that Jesus healed was asked by the religious leaders how Jesus healed him, and he answered, “I do not know. I only know that I was blind and now I see.” It is similar with saving grace. I know I was dead in my sins. I was a slave to fleshly desires. Then I was set free. I was translated from death to life. Thomas Brooks… Read more »
Hi Mrs. L. You have hit the nail directly on the head. I was once a “born-again” Christian. At the tender age of nine I prayed to Jesus to forgive me of all my sins and to be my Lord and Savior. Over my teenage years and yearly twenties, I often felt the presence of Jesus in my heart. I believed he answered my prayers. I felt Him “move” me to share the Gospel with non-believers. The perception of His presence, just what you are speaking about, was the assurance of my eternal salvation. But there were also periods of… Read more »
Hi Gary, the usual way out of the faith is suffering, hypocrisy of church members or being in bed with someone to whom you are not married, so you are an unusual case! I think the issue with the couple of paragraphs (end of Mark and woman caught in adultery) and the other parts of verses modern translations omit or put in the margin is not that they are necessarily false, but that there is good reason to believe they were not part of the autograph text. They don’t contradict other passages where there is no dispute, so I wouldn’t… Read more »
You are correct, Ken, that none of the scribal additions I mentioned above contradict orthodox, trinitarian Christian doctrine. They could all be removed from our Bibles without any significant consequence on overall Christian doctrine. But these scribal additions are a big problem for trust in the Church, specifically, trust in the Church hierarchy (pastors and bishops). In the early centuries of the Church, copies of Scripture were tedious and difficult to produce so there would not have been enough copies for every member of every church to have a copy, like today. It is very likely that only members of… Read more »
I think with the amount of manuscript evidence, quotations in the early centuries and foreign language translations of the scriptures we can be very confident about the authenticity of nearly all of the text. Previous generations didn’t have as much information available as today, but would have used say the old received text as being all they had.
The fact that Christianity has thousands of nearly identical copies of the four Gospels proves nothing. One BILLION nearly identical copies of Sleeping Beauty in no way serves as evidence that a tale about a poisoned princess who comes back to life with a prince’s kiss is true. Most scholars agree that the first Gospel was written in circa 65-75 CE. That is 30-40 years after Jesus’ death! We have no idea what the “Jesus Story” consisted of in this “black hole”. We have no idea how much the story evolved as it passed from one oral story teller to… Read more »
Ha, the first “marriage” was arranged, and the first kids were incestuous…no one has issues with that?
Assuming Adam’s descendants were initially siblings, at the time this happened there was no law forbidding incest, that came much later, so it would not have been sinful.
It would also have been unavoidable if the race were to reproduce.
The other answer to this supposed problem is God create a mass of men and women in Gen 1, and Gen 2 depicts a special creation of Adam and Eve. Not entirely convinced of this view, but it does explain where Cain got his wife, amongst other things.
Or the story could be allegory or metaphor and not actual reality? Shouldn’t the fact that incest, even if unlawful at they’ll time, was still the only option, and god made that the only way? Does the same go for polygamy, or treating women as property?
*lawful
According to the Bible, everything has been slowly decaying since the Fall, and this includes the gene pool. So, the genetic code for the children of Adam and Eve was nearly perfect, and remained good enough for what would now be considered incestuous relationships to have healthy offspring at least until Abram and Sarah. By the time of the Law of Moses, however, that was no longer the case, and those relationships were forbidden. Relationships between first cousins, however, was not yet an issue for children, unlike today, and was allowed by the law, for which there’s at least one… Read more »
Isn’t that evolution?
I think Reepicheep is describing micro-evolution (change within species and the loss of genetic information), which most every Christian believes in (to the best of my knowledge). That’s distinct from macro-evolution (change from one species to another and the gain of new genetic information), which is believed by some Christians and not by others.
Calling both micro-evolution and macro-evolution “evolution” is bait and switch, not science.
I didn’t say anything about micro or macro…evolution is undergoing a process of gradual, progressive change or development, which is what happens ALL the time whether you acknowledge it or not.
Equivocation. You’re pretending all uses of the term “evolution” are identical, when sub-terms exist specifically because they aren’t. Did you want to engage in conversation or play word games to pretend you’re winning at something?
I have no stake in this, and it seems like you like games more than most;) I stated the definition of evolution…if something is micro-evolution, that’s still evolution…even if god had/has her hand in it. Please, let’s engage!
Waiting on bated breath for Doug’s take on the US surrender to Iran while his boy was at the helm.
Is it going to be Daily Wire/Mark Levin style angry cry over the bombs stopping?
Or will it be a Benny Johnson game of hide from the truth in the closet?
We don’t know the terms of the deal yet. Not much point writing a piece on the deal before we know what it is.
How do you think we did? We won, right?
I’m not sure yet. I tend to think we didn’t, but as I said, I need to see the terms of the deal.
Why do you ask? My own reasoning renders my speculation utterly pointless.
Oh, blindly assumed I’d approve of whatever it is Trump is doing, for no particular reason. Sorry, you’re going to have to make a coherent point here to earn that tone of condescension. I have no biases regarding Trump. there’s no way to bait me with him.
Terms are out and signed, which the they were released yesterday you just seem to be arrogant to any research.
Thoughts?
Or are we going back in the closet with Benny boy and hope people forget about this whole kerfuffle ever occurred?
I think you actually mean “waiting with bated breath” but your comment, “…while his boy was at the helm.” makes me think “baited breath” might better describe what you are up to.
Doug: Gary, want to know what else is invisible? Gravity, the laws of logic, quarks, and the fairies at the bottom of the garden. Good comeback, Doug! But seriously, just because we can’t see something doesn’t mean it does not exist. However, if we are going to claim that something we cannot see does exist, we need good objective evidence. Such evidence exists for gravity, the laws of logic, and quarks (sorry, not for garden fairies). Does such evidence exist for invisible friends? There may be good evidence for an intelligent creator but that is not the question. The question… Read more »
In your view, what counts as objective evidence?
Objective evidence is factual, unbiased data and documentation that can be verified through observation, measurement, or testing. It is independent of personal feelings, opinions, or interpretations, making it universally provable across multiple observers.
Christians don’t dispute the fact that empirical observation and experimentation are useful to get knowledge about the universe. However, empirical methods can only detect material reality. It is an additional leap to the conclusion that material reality is the only reality, and that what cannot be detected by measurement and testing does not exist. To demand empirical evidence for God is a category error. Also, I would dispute that empirical testing is “independent of personal feelings, opinions, or interpretations.” Interpreting evidence is a necessary part of empirical conclusions. Personal feelings and opinions often come in when humans do science, however… Read more »
You make a very good point, John. I have never claimed that material reality is the only reality. I have never denied the existence of gods or other supernatural beings. I do not deny their existence because I cannot disprove the non-existence of beings whom I cannot examine with the scientific method. But what I can do is point to insufficient evidence that the supernatural is at work in our universe at the present time. I see no evidence of laws-of-physics defying miracles occurring today as they allegedly occurred in the Bible. And if they don’t occur today when almost… Read more »
Gary, I think that you have a different epistemology than the Bible. You require “evidence” prior to believing something. At first that seems reasonable (and is to an extent), but the truth is that we must all accept certain propositions as true prior to being able to know anything (for example, “logic/reason is trustworthy” and “I can usually trust my senses”). If you don’t accept those (by faith) as true, you are unable to know anything or build any kind of epistemological framework. The position of Scripture (and therefore what should be the position of a Christian) is that we… Read more »
Hi Caleb. You make many excellent points, however, I think it would be a good idea if we define our terms. Hebrews 11:1 says, “Now faith is the assurance[a] of things hoped for, the conviction[b] of things not seen.” In John 20:29 it says, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have come to believe.” In this definition of faith, faith is hope without seeing ANY evidence. My trust in science is not “faith” by this definition. Science is not based on hope. Science is based on the scientific method:… Read more »
Some readers of this blog may be asking, why is Gary, a skeptic and non-believer, here harassing us? Here is my response: Fourteen years ago I was a happy, conservative Christian who loved my Lord and loved my church. Then, one fateful day, an ex-Christian turned atheist challenged me on the evidence for my beliefs. I thought to myself, “This will be easy. I will bring this backslidden black sheep to repentance and back to his Lord and Savior.” Four months later, however, it was me who had lost my faith. Why? Answer: I discovered that I had been bamboozled… Read more »
Thanks for joining, Gary! I feel similarly to you and believe we should all at least be willing to grapple with the issues, errors, inconcistencies, etc. Get ready for a lot of circular reasoning, deflected questions, logical fallacies and a general sense of “I’m right, you’re wrong”!
In my experience, the overwhelming majority of Christians, regardless of denomination, are very nice people with a sincere desire for truth. My problem is not with them. My problem is with the Church heirarchy, beginning with the Early Church, then the Catholic Church, and then the Protestant Churches, to this very day. Why did Christian clergy continue to preach these “scribal additions” as the Word of God from their pulpits for over a thousand years when they knew they were not part of the original texts??? Question: (If you are over 60 years old) When you were young, did your… Read more »
Up above you wrote: “How do we know that the original Gospels are not full of invented tales similar to the invented tales added by scribes?” How do we know for certain that Mark 16:9f and John 7:53f were invented by scribes? It’s been argued that linguistic analysis shows the long ending of Mark to be compatible with his language. If the adulterous woman passage is not from the pen of John, might it still be authentic scripture? The five major text variations in the New Testament (two large and three smaller) do not warrant a conclusion that the Bible… Read more »
The majority of scholars do not believe that the author of Mark wrote the longer ending of his Gospel or that the style of writing found in the long ending is compatible with his style. Most scholars believe the long ending was added by a later scribe. Yes, the thousands of copies of the New Testament are remarkably uniform. But what does this prove? It only proves that the early Christian scribes were very good at copying. It does not prove that the original texts were historically accurate. That is the issue. Conservative Christian Churches and their apologists allege that… Read more »
Let me give an example: the Story of the Feeding of the Five Thousand. Other than the resurrection, this is the only miracle of Jesus recorded in all four Gospels. Yet the Gospels of Mark and Matthew record Jesus also feeding four thousand people with a very similar story line. Two distinct events and therefore two great miracles? Or, two versions of the same miracle? Many critical scholars believe it is the latter and that the two versions are evidence of “number inflation”. (In ancient Near Eastern literature, large, even numbering often echoes prophetic motifs of abundance rather than a… Read more »
I used to babysit a kid who had been physically abused so spanking wouldn’t work. His pain threshold was too high. God did not leave us abandoned. He despised being sent to his room. I had to hold the door shut for the length of the punishment, but it worked.
Well, I guess there is no more interest in discussing evidence for invisible friends. Very good. I will make one last comment on the subject: Even if an intelligent being created our universe (which I agree is very plausible); and even if the supernatural does operate in our universe (despite the lack of indisputable evidence that it does); and even if Jesus was seen alive again sometime after his death (maybe the swoon theory is true: except that his “appearance” to his disciples did not occur three days later, as the rumors allege, but six MONTHS later, after a prolonged… Read more »
There is a promise in scripture that having believed God will give you his Spirit. You cannot be filled with the Spirit of God and not know it, but by its very nature this aspect of Christianity is at least partly subjective. That doesn’t mean it is not real to the believer concerned, but such things are not subject ot empirical verification because they go beyond natural processes and involve a Person who is not part of the physical universe. When I was filled with the Holy Spirit, the woman who prayed for me gave a personal prophecy. This word… Read more »
Ken: You cannot be filled with the Spirit of God and not know it, but by its very nature this aspect of Christianity is at least partly subjective. Gary: Hi Ken. I appreciate the conversation. SBC pastor and former president of the Southern Baptist Convention JD Greear says on his website that he repeated the born again experience more than 5,000 times in his youth. How is it possible this pastor and Christian leader cried out to God five thousand times for assurance of salvation and did not “know it”? Why do so many evangelical Christians so frequently doubt their… Read more »
By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his own Spirit. This verse lept off the page a long time ago! Receiving the Spirit was experimental in the early church, but is now often little more than a ceremony – confirmation. The pastor you name who had no assurance, can as far as I can see only have imbibed some false doctrine from somewhere. There is a doctrine of mortification (putting sin to death) and vivification (being made alive again) that is found amongst American evangelicals, but I don’t… Read more »
How certain are you, Ken, of the presence of “the Spirit” within you? You can’t see him or hear him. You can’t touch him or smell him. So how can you be so certain of this presence?
What is your explanation for experiencing some inner presence?
A delusion.
Believing that gods exist is not a delusion. Believing that you can feel or perceive a god living inside of your body is a delusion.
Is that because you imagined it and that is why it wasn’t real?
That’s not much of an explanation. Got anything more robust? If you mean something akin to schizophrenia I can testify that I was cured of that precisely by God’s intervention. I have never heard voices since I’ve been saved or pretty much any of the things you claim to have experienced in your own ex-Christian life. You can call it a one true Scotsman fallacy if you like, I don’t care at all. You were never saved genuinely in reality. I’m sorry if that rubs you the wrong way but it’s true nevertheless.
No, that doesn’t upset me. If your belief system is true then you are correct: I was never truly saved. But if your belief system is wrong, then it is you who is operating under a delusion.
What could we do to find out which of us is right?
That’s pretty easy to determine. If you were regenerated by God you would know the difference between your imagination in your own mind and your experience of God in your mind. They aren’t the same thing. I can point to universal experiences of people that defy any materialist interpretation and such as produce objective evidence of various sorts of a supernatural nature. I can point out that no scientists knows what the hypnotic state actually is, that no skeptic knows what the state of sleep is or means, and myriad numerous problems skeptics such as yourself cannot explain. I can… Read more »
I used to believe that I could feel Jesus’ presence within me. I would call it a “sixth sense”. It is now my belief that anyone, including myself, who believes that he can feel the presence of an invisible being living inside of him is operating under a delusion. There is no objective evidence for such a belief. It is purely subjective. “I can point to universal experiences of people that defy any materialist interpretation and such as produce objective evidence of various sorts of a supernatural nature.” Please provide objective evidence for ONE alleged supernatural event that defies a… Read more »
That’s piss easy. There’s tons of spiritualist phenomena with videos and photographs, there’s objectively corroborated UFO sightings, there’s tons of evidence for bleeding statues and other supernatural phenomena. I cannot take any person seriously who denies all of these things who hasn’t investigated them properly. I do science by researching them to the enth degree, do you do that? It turns out your internal experience was a delusion because you said it was, not because of the existence of events you cannot explain personally but that have been corroborated objectively by tons of witnesses already. Try responding to what I… Read more »
UFOs are not necessarily supernatural phenomena. They might be, but they might not be. So that is a category error. The fact is that you cannot provide one documented, corroborated event which defies the known laws of physics and science.
Why is it that Allah, Lord Krishna, and Lord Jesus only heal people of diseases which *could* have a natural explanation. None of these gods ever heal someone who has been beheaded or blown to bits by a bomb. Never happens. Why is that, do you think?
Just to clarify, by “supernatural” I mean something which defies the laws of physics. The fact that someone recovers from advanced lung cancer after prayers to a particular god is not necessarily a miracle. It could be, if a god intervened to heal the person, but it could also be a very rare, but natural recovery. We need something which could not possibly have a natural cause. Very rare natural events do happen. It may seem like a miracle to flip a coin and have it land on heads twenty times in a row, but statistics experts tell us that… Read more »
I don’t understand why you aren’t responding to my questions. I can’t continue to try to talk to and communicate with someone that is unwilling to engage normally. Have a good life though. Oh, and remember – you aren’t God.
I apologize if you feel I am not answering your questions. I thought I was. Please repeat your question.
I asked many question as EVERYBODY ELSE can see. Not just one.
In my experience I have known people I trust who have been healed in answer to prayer, but it has been very rare. These are not things that might have happened naturally.
You don’t need to remind me there are numerous fakes and charlatans in this particualar area, and a great deal of discernment is required for such claims!
I am a physician. Please give one example of a healing that you have witnessed which you believe could not have occurred naturally.
In the fellowship I was in a teenager had a curved spine that was prayed for. When in hospital the consultant examined her and asked who had performed the operation, as the problem had gone. I have to be honest I forgot about this for about 30 years until my wife reminded me of it. There was also an older lady with sciatica which was instantly healed, and she gave testimony of this after having seen her doctor. I don’t think you could put this down to the power of suggestion. There are others who have testified to healing which… Read more »
Sorry. Sciatica can wax and wane, completely disappearing for months. Why don’t gods ever heal major limb amputees, beheading victims, or those blown to bits by a bomb? Why do the gods avoid the really tough healings? No god of any of the world’s major Faiths has ever been recorded performing a healing of one of these poor people. Isn’t that very strong evidence that what believers believe to be healings are just rare but natural processes?
The sciatica in the case I have in mind was healed instantly and permanently. God owes no-one healing; it is not an entitlement or right that we can claim. I think there are two reasons for the rarity of healings. The first is unbelieving believers – a very real absence of expectant faith when praying in general and for healing in particular. The other is that if God did regular spectacular healings, thereby proving his existence on top of all the other reasons to beliveve this would make life intolerable for those who reject biblical moral standards. The activists who… Read more »
I hope I haven’t given the impression that having been filled with the Holy Spirit life from then on was one of conscious awareness of the presence of God. After that happened I went through a period of intense doubt, and the feelings element disappeared. You think ‘is this stuff real’? I found out later this is quite common. What I had to learn was to distinguish faith from feelings, and that there is an objective side to the faith. One example is fullfilled prophecy in the OT. That is objective evidence of God and his intervention in history. My… Read more »
Thank you for sharing objective evidence for your belief that Jesus lives inside you: OT prophecy fulfillment. I would agree that fulfilled prophecy would be excellent evidence that Jesus was who he claimed to be except for the fact that only Christians believe he fulfilled any prophecies. Your objective “evidence” is hotly disputed. Disputed evidence is not good evidence.
That’s where you went wrong in your thinking yet again, continuously. Prophecy is a fact by every objective measure. It isn’t just Christians that believe in fulfilled prophecy. You are desperately denying reality now and you ought to know it. But it is rather fitting how you deny prophecy based upon Jesus stuff and not pagan stuff, since Jesus already diagnosed you as hating him and hating people that think he existed. You are a self fulfilled prophecy museum piece!
You need to reread my comment. FULFILLED prophecies are most definitely strong (good) objective evidence.
What I then said is that the only people who believe that Jesus fulfilled OT prophecies are Christians. Jews don’t believe he did. Muslims don’t believe he did. Even some Christian scholars and apologists (Josh and Sean McDowell, for instance) admit that Isaiah 7 was not originally a prophecy about Jesus.
Fulfilled prophecy IS excellent objective evidence. Disputed fulfillment of prophecies, however, is bad evidence. The fact that only Christians believe that Jesus fulfilled OT prophecies is weak evidence.
Disputed evidence is never good evidence.
If the apostles had made the whole thing up using OT prophecies about the messiah, it would have been pretty easy for the religious authorities to have strangled the church at birth, as no-one would have seen any such person doing what the messiah was predicted to do. The OT prophecies I have in mind are the judgements on the various nations, where it is possible to date the prophecy and using secular history trace the fullfillment. Things like Nineveh, Babylon, Tyre, Petra etc. The chances of these occuring by coincidence especially when you take all of them into account… Read more »
Please provide a very clear, very specific, undisputed prophecy that has been fulfilled. Saying that city X will one day be sacked or defeated is too vague. Here is what we should look for:
City X will be leveled in the third month of the tenth year of the reign of King Y of country Z.
(Ezekiel’s prophecies about Tyre and Egypt FAILED.)
The prophecies aren’t vague. Some of them are a bit cryptic but they have been recognised as prophecy for thousands of years. The reason you do not see they are prophecies is explained in the Bible. You aren’t born again.
If they were clear and specific, they would not be disputed.
How do you know that the reason I don’t agree regarding Christian prophecies is because I was not “born again” and not because you are operating under a delusion? What evidence do you have that you are right other than your subject perceptions of an invisible friend and disputed prophecies?
I know you were never born again according to your own testimony, which you said was a delusion.
Could be. It could also be true that your supernatural beliefs are no more true than those of the ancient Greeks and Egyptians. How could we find out?
You are switching from experiences to beliefs as if they are the same thing.
Describe one experience which serves as objective evidence that a spirit lives inside your body.
That’s like me asking for objective evidence of your invisible mental processes. Beyond anything you say, there is no way to get objective evidence of such a thing. The same is true of spiritual experiences. And while you talk about “invisible friends” and such demeaning hostile language, if that was YOUR experience as a Christian it isn’t something I can relate to. I do not telepathically communicate with some inner presence as if I have a telephone wire connection to it and it speaks back to my mind. And I don’t know where people get that idea from anyway. It’s… Read more »
Grieving loved ones often “feel” the presence of their deceased loved one. Is there any evidence that dead people visit their living relatives? No. But there is a mountain of evidence that indicates the brain plays tricks on the bereaved. The bereaved even claim to SMELL the presence of their deceased loved one! That is what is happening to you and other believers who claim you can “feel” the spirit of Jesus dwelling within you. It is a trick of the brain. It feels very, very real but it is a delusion. Come out of your comforting superstitions, my friend.… Read more »
I would repeat the list above. There is considerable discussion over a supposed failure of Tyre, but the fact remains the ancient city today suffered the fate predicted of it in the way predicted. The most contraversial prophecy is that of Daniel, which predicts the rise and fall of empires covering the period from the end of the OT to the beginning of the new. I read a thousand page tome on this, and unfortuately for the bible critic the fullfillments carry on after the period for which manuscript evidence exists, quite apart from the fact the whole OT was… Read more »
Yet even most Bible scholars now doubt that the author of Daniel was a Jewish prince writing shortly after the sacking of Jerusalem by the Babylonians. That is the problem, Ken. The evidence for Judeo-Christian prophecy fulfillment is always disputed, even many times among Christian experts. There is not one single prophecy that all the experts agree: Yes, that very specific prophecy was fulfilled. Christianity’s evidence may be very strong in your mind and that of fellow hard core believers, but hard core Muslims and Mormons say the very same thing about their prophets’ prophecies. We must all look beyond… Read more »
Mormons and Islam have no prophecies. Troll!
I don’t think you will get much more objective evidence than historical prophecy. There are too many for coincidence to have played a part. I have more than once suggested studying this as a course of action for those who may genuinely want to know if Christianity is true, but to date invariably the correspondence goes quiet! I remember someone commenting on the Tyre prophecy where it states it shall never be rebuilt, saying there is a modern town there with that name, so it has been rebuilt. They had clearly never actually read the prophecy or they wouldn’t say… Read more »
Yes, I understand that you find the evidence for Christianity’s prophecy fulfillment to be overwhelmingly strong and that you believe that the reason liberals and atheists don’t agree is because they are biased against the supernatural. We skeptics believe that it is believers who are biased.
I trust consensus expert opinion on all issues, even if I don’t like their position. You only agree with the consensus of experts when they agree with you. You are the final authority.
Question for you, Ken: Why do you believe that you, a non-expert, can reach a better conclusion evaluating ancient texts, written in languages you probably do not speak, than thousands of experts who have spent their entire adult lives studying these documents? Is that rational?
Well there is such a thing as spiritual discernment, although that may sometimes have a subjective component. I have read around a lot, and listened to countless hours of teaching from men both gifted and well-trained in the scriptures, and have books full of notes. I’m afraid numerous academic qualitfications are not always a guide to how muh wisdom a man has. I also think it is important to reign in giving opinions on subjects where I am aware I do not have the necessary expertise. Creation science would be a good example of this! I would also add that… Read more »
Exactly. You believe that an invisible being gives you secret wisdom that allows you to see truth regarding complicated topics about which you are not an expert.
This is the danger of belief in the supernatural. No need for a university education. Just pray to your invisible friend and he will tell you what is and what is not true about the world.
You are operating under a delusion, my friend.
I’m not trying to be rude or condescending. I once believed just as you do. I too believed that Jesus gave me secret wisdom (insight). It is a delusion, my friend. There is no good evidence for this belief.
When I say spiritual discernment, I have in mind the spiritual condition of a man before God. I have an unshakeable faith that God does not want us deceived, and I have on several occasions received words of knowledge as to what is going on in the lives of believers who are way out of order. Stuff I was not in a position to know by ordinary or if you like natural means. This cannot be learned at a university! Apart from these spiritual gifts revealing the invisible God, God has revealed himself in the scriptures, and all our primary… Read more »
Mormons tell me the exact same things. So how could we determine which of you is right?
THey do not say the exact same things. That is where you are mightily mistaken. Prove you aren’t.
All spiritual experiences have to be tested against scripture, the canon, the measuring rod. Being God speaking it has an authority that trumps everything else – including our humble opinions! Not everything supernatural comes from God. I had an acquaintance who had a professional ministry to the various cults like Mormons or JW’s – he even had a first edition book of Mormon and could show them where it had been altered despite the denials. He would get them to agree that a believer is someone who ‘has the Holy Spirit’ Romans 8, and then try and get them to… Read more »
You write like a kid. It must have taken some pains to write that reverse biased sentence to eliminate your assumptions. All you actually said is that you don’t believe in the supernatural and this other fellow does.
There is no such thing as a “consensus expert”, it’s all over the map. But there are scholars of the Bible that are Atheists who admit there are prophecies. Why they are still Atheists is a different matter. They shouldn’t be if they admit prophecy is real, but that’s what having a hard heart means.