Gorsuch A Time as This

As I have commented already, I am enjoying the early phases of the Trump administration a lot more than I thought I was going to. The most recent manifestation of this was Trump’s nomination of Neil Gorsuch for a place on the Supreme Court. And not only did he nominate someone apparently true blue, but he shows every indication that he is going to fight to get that nomination confirmed.

The Democrats are in a tough spot. The seat that is open is the Scalia seat, meaning that a Gorsuch confirmation will simply maintain the status quo. If the Democrats filibuster on this one, where Gorsuch is so obviously qualified and so obviously not an orc, the Republicans can then go nuclear, adjusting the filibuster rules downward, and do so with a respectable amount of cover—thoughtfully provided to them by the Democrats. The real pitched battle, from the perspective of the Left, will have to be over the next Supreme Court appointment, not over this one. If they do what their base is demanding, which is to filibuster now, they might find themselves in a pickle in a few months when another seat opens up on the court and Trump nominates Henry P. Balrog.

Should the Republicans be willing to go nuclear? The answer is of course. This would mean that the vote margin required to confirm a nominee is adjusted from 60 to 51. This trail was blazed by Harry Reid, who did this for all cabinet appointees, thus making way for Trump’s cabinet to be the most conservative in several generations. Not only that, but it granted tacit permission to the Republicans to do the same thing as it applies to the Supreme Court. This really is a marvelous time to be alive.

In addition to the tactical set up being in favor of the Republicans, so is the atmosphere. By this I mean that I believe the kind of vicious smear campaign that worked on Robert Bork would not really be possible today. (Although it will certainly be tried.) The country has apparently reached its saturation point when it comes to leftist outrage fatigue.

Whether deliberately or not, whether it is instinctive or thought out, Donald Trump is doing to the domestic left what Ronald Reagan did to the former Soviet Union. What I mean is this. Reagan spent the Soviets into the ground. They could not keep up, and finally collapsed, exhausted. We were far wealthier than they were, and we leveraged our wealth to the point where they simply tapped out.

Trump has apparently grasped that the capital that the left uses is emotional capital, and he is making them spend it all. Every three days they have to write another yuge check.

We have been scouting Team Snowflake for a while, but apparently we should have been asking more questions about how deep a bench they had. Do conservatives, if in power, have more capacity to outrage them than they have outrage to be outraged with? I think we are about to find out. If the left tries to spend the next six months lying on its back on the floor, drumming with their heels, they might find out

As one can tell, I am being, for the most part, pretty optimistic. Chirpy almost. But . . . put not your hope in princes. John Roberts looked pretty great too, and then he wrote that Obamacare decision that read, legally speaking, like Coleridge took a couple of hits of acid in his attempt to imitate Jim Morrison of the Doors.

So I am having a good time, but I don’t think it is time yet for touchdown dances. But there is one thing, one bracing thing. Every morning when you wake up, you can take a deep breath and say, “Whoever it is, Hillary didn’t nominate him.”

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jigawatt
Guest
jigawatt

And one other thing you can be sure of. If Hillary had won and the R’s in congress were like the R’s of just a couple years ago, they would have been stepping over each other to confirm each and every one of her nominations.

Adam Sanders
Guest

Great article. Slight correction. You said of the nuclear option: “This would mean that the vote margin required to confirm a nominee is adjusted from 60 to 51.” I think the nuclear option actually refers to reducing the vote margin required to END DEBATE on a nominee, thereby bringing about his up-or-down confirmation vote. The margin required to actually confirm a nominee remains, under either scenario, 51 votes.

Gary
Guest
Gary

There’s a second kind of capital being spent here, and that’s credibility. The more the far left freaks out over minor things, the less credible they are to the moderates. The boy who rioted “wolf” if you will.

jigawatt
Guest
jigawatt

Got that right.

“End Abortion Now” — NAZI!
“Repeal Obamacare” — NAZI!
“School Choice” — NAZI!
“Minimum Wage of $14.95 instead of $15.00” — NAZI!

adad0
Member

Mmmmm.

The left are fiscal, credibility and emotional communists.

They go bankrupt in all three, almost immediately.

Hence they are always in a state of low grade riot, or supermarket temper tantrum.

????

Capndweeb
Guest
Capndweeb

What’s the psychological condition called where everything is an “11” even if the scale only goes to ten?

adad0
Member

STS:

Spinal Tap Syndrome! ????????
“It’s one louder!”

Matt
Guest
Matt

Which happened during the Obama years too, with conservatives losing their minds over Churchill busts being sent back to England and other useless crap. At least you didn’t get this from the mainstream media back then. The way it’s going, genuine outrages like Trump’s travel ban and Iranian provocation are getting lost amid the constant background noise.

Arwenb
Guest
Arwenb

At least we didn’t commit riots and arson, and obstruction of traffic, and vandalism, and theft, etc. etc. every time the Golfer-in-Chief so much as went to dinner.

Matt
Guest
Matt

Liberal protests against Trump have been overwhelmingly peaceful. The major incidents of violence have occurred due to college age idiots. Now, do you think that if the right-wing had any substantial presence on college campuses, that we wouldn’t be seeing the same sort of behavior from them? The far right is no more friendly than the far left.

LittleRedMachine
Guest
LittleRedMachine

i don’t think there’s much difference bt the far right and far left. The real differences are b/t the constructs of globalism vs constitutionalism and national sovereignty. Internally within the United States has always been b/t federalism vs central power.

I think what we’re seeing is way beyond just college kids. I know some adults who are beside themselves emotionally and hysterical.

Arwenb
Guest
Arwenb

No more friendly, perhaps, but far more self-controlled.

If any far-righters had set buildings on fire after the election of Her Royal Clintonness, they would have been arrested with extreme prejudice.

Besides, if the Tea-party rallies are any indicator of right-wing protesting, the campuses would have been safer than usual during the protest and cleaner than normal afterwards.

duellsquimby
Member

Yes indeed, and that the travel pause isn’t an outrage or a provocation…

Jane
Member

And the Iran thing is a provocation the way having armed guards at banks is a provocation to bank robbers. It does provoke them to being even more dangerous if they choose to act, but they could choose not to act.

duellsquimby
Member

Yes, the best thing that can be done with Iran is to get them back to where they were sanction wise before this joke of a treaty was even talked about. We need to make sure the Iranians realize they brought a knife to a gun fight.

Jane
Member

Heheh.

hillbillygeek
Guest

‘The boy who rioted “wolf”‘
Appropriating the phrase.

Capndweeb
Guest
Capndweeb

Hydrophobia of the psyche with chronic coprolalia.

Jennie
Member

Ewww.

Rob Steele
Guest
Rob Steele

THAT’S RIGHT!

It’s hard to express the joy. Poetry would be too restrained and vulgarity too un-joyful.

Henry P. Balrog! Snork!

Still, we mustn’t underestimate Republican perfidy. We could get tired of all the winning. Serve us right too if we start thinking our own hand did this.

adad0
Member

Betty Balrog!

It could happen!????

Ben Zornes
Guest

“Trump has apparently grasped that the capital that the left uses is emotional capital, and he is making them spend it all. Every three days they have to write another yuge check.”

Spot on…

Will G
Guest
Will G

That deep breath we are all taking is no thanks to you, good pastor. Although I appreciate your honesty.

Katecho
Member

If our goal is the favor of God on our nation, then these changes, however encouraging to our freedom-loving nature, do not translate into God’s favor. What we really need is repentance, and what Trump offers is to Make American Great Again Without Any Repentance (MAGAWAR). In other words, Trump is still moving us in the wrong direction, toward hubris and national/political pride. We should not be tempted to think that any of these changes in appointments and socio-economic policy, no matter how proper in their own right, are a substitute for repentance. Without repentance, they may, in fact, simply… Read more »

insanitybytes22
Member

“If our goal is not God’s favor, but simply American greatness, then Trump is the man.”

I continue to beat the drum that says, God’s favor and American greatness are one and the same.

Katecho
Member

ME wrote: I continue to beat the drum that says, God’s favor and American greatness are one and the same. ME seems to assume that America couldn’t be great in the same way that Babylon was great and splendid, yet absent God’s favor. That’s the kind of proud greatness that leads to ruin. The attempt to be great apart from God’s favor is just hubris, and God expressly says that He resists the proud. True greatness can follow humility and God’s favor, but it doesn’t precede it. If someone is cheering national greatness, apart from humility, and apart from God’s… Read more »

insanitybytes22
Member

“True greatness can follow humility and God’s favor, but it doesn’t precede it.”

Not sure if you’ll understand this Katecho, but it actually took a phenomenal amount of humility to convince me to vote for Trump. What is pride if not a belief in being entitled to better leaders, representatives as virtuous and moral as we…imagine our own selves to be?

Martin Barnard
Guest
Martin Barnard

I’m wondering if what you intended to say was that you were humiliated to vote for Trump. Humbling ourselves and being humiliated are not always the same thing. And I would concur with the opinion that Trump is the President we deserve at this time, regularly throwing tantrums. However, to equate any desire for honorable leader with pride is far from Biblical. Reading through the Proverbs would dispel the notion that a desire for leaders worthy of respect is an issue of carnal pride. And that is not in any way to posit my personal superiority based on voting habits.… Read more »

insanitybytes22
Member

“I’m wondering if what you intended to say was that you were humiliated to vote for Trump.”

Not at all, I was rather joyous. Feeling humiliated is yet another sign of pride.

God did not give us a spirit of fear, in Christ there is no condemnation, and He went to the cross despising the shame on our behalf. Given those truths right out of the bible,why do so many always insist on living right out of the old testament?

Sorry, that’s just a rhetorical question.

Katecho
Member

One can project a lot of “greatness” by running up a $20 trillion debt, but that kind of “American greatness” should never be confused with God’s favor. It’s more akin to God’s judgment.

Jill Smith
Member

Why would God favor America more than other nations?

Jennie
Member

I don’t think anybody said that. Canada could be blessed too. (waves hi!)

Jill Smith
Member

Hi to you too! I do have trouble with the idea that God blesses any modern nation.

Jennie
Member

You’ve got a lot of company here methinks!

ashv
Guest
ashv

As far as I can see, Trump is about as God-honouring as Washington or Jefferson or any of their successors. Let’s not have unrealistic expectations for the office.

Katecho
Member

ashv wrote: As far as I can see … Indeed. However, humility is not an unrealistic expectation, because it is God’s own expectation, particularly of rulers. God commands them to bow and show their submission to Christ. It’s not even optional. Look, God is not hiding from us the principle for who He gives grace (favor) to, and who He resists. He says quite plainly what His expectations are. He resists the proud, and He gives grace (favor) to the humble. So if we really want God’s favor on us, as a nation (which is a very open question right… Read more »

LittleRedMachine
Guest
LittleRedMachine

I think this is wasted preaching and warning. Most Christians I know are not going to go charging over the God-and-country hill anymore. After the Bush’s (and David Souter/John Roberts) and whatnot.

Katecho
Member

albrevin wrote:

Most Christians I know are not going to go charging over the God-and-country hill anymore.

Indeed. Many seem just as willing to drop God from the God-and-country and keep on charging the hill to Make America Great Again. America first! It’s as if we just wanted America to be great again through some much-needed policy changes, and weren’t so hung up about having God’s favor and blessing, after all.

ashv
Guest
ashv

I don’t think anyone who proclaimed themselves “Never Trump” gets to celebrate this one without eating a bit of crow.

Katecho
Member

Wilson already anticipated that Trump would do a lot of things that he could agree with and support, in principle, so he doesn’t need to eat any crow in order to point out some of those things. What Wilson was critiquing was the tempting notion that Trump represents what we actually need. Trump does not, because what we need is humility and repentance. Trump is taking us further away from the true solution by offering us a path of national pride, human strength, and trust in chariots. Trump is just like Hillary in that respect. Perhaps even more convincing than… Read more »

insanitybytes22
Member

I find it somewhat fascinating you are preaching about the horrors of pride out of one side of your mouth, while pridefully declaring no one needs to eat crow because they have nothing to repent of.

No offense intended, I just find it to be an almost humorous line of reasoning.

Katecho
Member

First, I didn’t say no one should eat crow. Some may need to. However, Wilson already specifically anticipated that Trump would do things that Wilson would agree needed to be done. Again, there is no surprise in the mere fact that Trump has done some things that Wilson agrees with. Wilson predicted that. Instead, Wilson has expressed surprise at his own emotional reaction to that agreement, since he did not anticipate the level of pleasure and satisfaction that he would experience. This is a very pastoral warning for us all to guard our emotions. I think those of us who… Read more »

insanitybytes22
Member

Well, all in good humor here, but I believe the Apostle Paul would be telling us “rejoice! And again I say rejoice.” And in case we missed it the first dozen times,he says it again “rejoice!” Why? Because the very act of rejoicing becomes praise for God, it is the very thing that calls a nation to revival. It is what honors Him and draws people back to the moral center. Sometimes we remind of me of the Jews freed from Pharaoh. Do we rejoice? Not so much, we actually fear our own freedom, wander around murmuring about the kind… Read more »

Katecho
Member

Somehow, rejoicing over our new chariot is not what I think Paul had in mind.

ashv
Guest
ashv

Well, when you’ve decided to be humble and repent, you can come over here and join those of us who are thankful for God blessing us with a man actually seeking the well-being of his subjects.

Katecho
Member

I am certainly thankful that certain socio-economic policies of the previous administration are being reversed, but I don’t confuse that activity with actual repentance. It is still the same old trust in chariots that we had before. Notice that trust in chariots is not an argument that a particular chariot isn’t a really sweet ride. It may, in fact, be a fine chariot. The problem is trusting in it rather than trusting in God. The problem is the lack of repentance and humility. We may be in a different chariot now, but trust in chariots is still alive and well,… Read more »

ashv
Guest
ashv

Of course. But you needn’t be so gloomy about it.

Katecho
Member

Gloomy? Setting aside things like the wall on our southern border, and with regard to the stress points where our social structure is actually and already most critically vulnerable, does ashv really think that Trump is slowing us down, or accelerating us toward ruin?

Am I supposed to be cheerful about our national prospects? We need repentance yesterday.

LittleRedMachine
Guest
LittleRedMachine

Can’t agree on this one. Rev Wilson not only opposed Donald Trump he placed himself in the ‘nevertrump’ group. He also jumped in on the throw-anything-at-him crowd during the primaries. In particular I remember him latching on, with venom, the argument that Trump was a hypocrite for proposing tariffs while having his line of ties made in China. This particular line of argument showed me clearly that Pastor Wilson was in a political mindset and NOT thinking, being fair, or being rational. I also distinctly recall Wilson turning around and touting Ben Sasse as his write-in candidate. The nevertrump group… Read more »

adad0
Member

Who knew there could be rainbows,
after those sorts of “showers”?
????

Jennie
Member

Ewww.

Jennie
Member

“To see Pastor Doug Wilson mixed up in the middle of these people, nevertrump nuance levels notwithstanding, was/is disappointing.”

That’s the worst part for me. Some of the good people here have tied themselves and their own names to evil people who are advocating rebellion against the one God has chosen for president. I hope they will repent of it.

Katecho
Member

JL wrote: Some of the good people here have tied themselves and their own names to evil people who are advocating rebellion against the one God has chosen for president. I’m not trying to tie my name to anyone, or advocate any sort of rebellion against Trump. I’m simply pointing out that, so far, Trump represents national pride and hubris on stilts. In other words, all of the socio-economic policy changes, however shiny or prudent, are not, in fact, changing the heart of our nation away from its trust in chariots. We should not pretend that we are inviting God’s… Read more »

Jennie
Member

I wasn’t thinking of you :)

Sometimes God gives us chariots.

And sometimes those chariots are pulled by ugly horses.

Katecho
Member

God may indeed give us fine chariots, and even majestic horses. But it is still, and always, wrong to put our trust in them, and forget Him, as we seem to be doing with Trump.

Jennie
Member

I agree wholeheartedly with everything right up until “as we seem to be doing with Trump”.

This is a matter of perception perhaps and the circles we travel in. I know of no Christian who has placed their trust in Trump. Do you know people like that personally or is this your perception based on what you are seeing in the media?

Katecho
Member

Has Franklin Graham placed his trust in Trump?

Jennie
Member

He said at our state’s gathering that only the Lord can save us, and not to put our trust in a person aka chariots. They are on YouTube if you’re interested. Decision America tour.

Katecho
Member

I’m glad to hear that Franklin Graham offered the same warning that I’m offering. Perhaps it is the circles he travels in. Perhaps he personally knows Christians who are placing their trust in Trump and really need to hear that warning.

Jennie
Member

It is a pastor’s duty to remind Christians from whence salvation comes, as Pastor Graham did.

edit: removed remark that was inappropriate.

Jill Smith
Member

I am troubled by these remarks Graham made on why Trump won the election: I don’t have any scientific information. I don’t have a stack of emails to read to you. But I have an opinion: I believe it was God. God showed up. He answered the prayers of hundreds of thousands of people across this land who had been praying for this country… (In an interview) Trump was the answer to the prayers of people who wanted a man in the White House who “believed in God” and was “willing to listen to God’s voice. I don’t know whether… Read more »

Jill Smith
Member

Hi, JL. When you say that God chose our president, do you mean that He did that permissively (in the sense that everything that happens falls under His sovereignty) or actively (in the sense that God looked at the ballot and chose Trump)? How could anyone ever tell the difference? If some Americans believe they have elected a wicked or otherwise unfit person as president, do they not have a duty to rebel within legal limits?

Jennie
Member

I think there are two coexisting realities where God raised Trump up for this time and we also elected him. Clearly there are disagreements on this. Did God raise Trump up and if so, for what reason?

If some Americans believe they have elected a wicked or otherwise unfit person as president, do they not have a duty to rebel within legal limits?

Within legal limits, of course people have that right. Let me know when the left decides to do that! (I’m not holding my breath.)

Jennie
Member

It is a rare thing for me to disagree with you, katecho, yet this is one time. Twenty pounds of invective cannot be overcome for by an ounce of reluctant agreement. I believe that you are also not seeing what is happening even now in this country. Christians are beginning to understand what we nearly lost and will step into the gap and take back this country for Christ. This is the opportunity God has given us. There is repentance. After repentance comes the battle to correct the wrongs. This is the fruit of repentance. My prayer is that the… Read more »

Katecho
Member

JL wrote: There is repentance. After repentance comes the battle to correct the wrongs. This is the fruit of repentance. My prayer is that the church will indeed step up and we will once again be a strong Christian nation. I appreciate the sentiment of hope for a return to Christ, and I could accept this interpretation if I was seeing evidence for it, but I’m just not at this time. What I’m seeing is a distracted glee surrounding Trump because he is making some big moves that are long overdue. I’m certainly not against him doing those things, but… Read more »

Jennie
Member

Yes, JL can gladly do so. A gent by the name of Franklin Graham went to every state capital and invited people to join him in a prayer of repentance. I was there along with thousands of other Christians. It was amazing to see so many cry out for repentance. I wish you had been there, katecho. Then maybe you would consider that God is doing a great work in this nation. I have personally seen and heard countless people pray for forgiveness and also give the glory to God for this chance to repent and turn this country around.… Read more »

Christopher
Member

“Christians are beginning to understand what we nearly lost and will step into the gap and take back this country for Christ. This is the opportunity God has given us.”

It is my opinion that while Trump will not be a good president he can be a usefull one. The opporotunities are certainly there, and while Trumps “make America great again” is as meaningless as Obamas “hope and change” I am all for christians repenting and working out their repentance.

Jennie
Member

I agree. I have no idea if Trump will be successful, and it’s kind of irrelevant to my argument.

The question is will we Christians bear fruit worthy of repentance? I pray so.

jigawatt
Guest
jigawatt

It should also be noted that it looks like DeVos and Gorsuch will face the toughest fights of all Trumps picks.

antexw
Member

For especially either those who still don’t know or who want to be reminded, below is web address where Gorsuch’s case decision opinions can be read:

http://www.ca10.uscourts.gov/opinion/...
…search/results?query=gorsuch

Omit the elipses on each line, then concatenate these two lines.

Matt
Guest
Matt

“Should the Republicans be willing to go nuclear? The answer is of course.” That’s some great “conservatism” you have there. The Democrats were fools to kill the filibuster for appointments, but at least they were wise enough to leave it around for the SC. The Republicans would be fools to tear down that wall. Why are people so stupid? As soon as they win an election, they assume they’ll win every election after it, so tear down all the barriers. And then when the Democrats win in 2020 or 2024, they can go ahead and swing the SC as hard… Read more »

Vva70
Guest
Vva70

If the Democrats hadn’t shown a willingness to nuke the filibuster, then I would agree with you that it would be foolish for Republicans to do so now. But as it stands, why should Republicans trust that if they keep the filibuster in good faith now, that the Democrats will reciprocate the next time they win? Your scenario for 2020/2024 would be just as plausible, and all the more damaging. At this point it’s not about assuming you’ll always win. It’s about recognizing that your opponent will eventually win, and that your opponent has already proven that this is one… Read more »

Matt
Guest
Matt

That argument could be applied to anything. The Democrats might loot the treasury and abolish the senate too, so we better beat them to the punch, right? Fact is that the Democrats had the chance to kill the filibuster for SC appointments and declined to do so, which doesn’t fit the narrative that they’re just itching to do it as soon as possible. If it actually were true that Democrats were completely unscrupulous and power-hungry, then removing the one way for the scrupulous minority to have an impact on SC appointments is an even dumber move, since even unscrupulous people… Read more »

Vva70
Guest
Vva70

“That argument could be applied to anything. The Democrats might loot the treasury and abolish the senate too, so we better beat them to the punch, right?” I specifically said “If the Democrats hadn’t shown a willingness to nuke the filibuster, then I would agree with you that it would be foolish for Republicans to do so now.” The issue is not that there is a technical possibility that they could do something. The issue is that they’ve already shown a willingness to do that thing. And you say that they “had the chance to kill the filibuster for SC… Read more »

Matt
Guest
Matt

The filibuster is hardly an esoteric rule, not these days. The filibuster on legislation has been a thorn in Democrats’ side for a while, most famously on Obamacare. You’re completely wrong that they had no incentive to kill it at the time. “Why should I believe that the Democrats, when faced with a potentially court-tilting nomination in 202X, will be any less willing to nuke it than they were recently?” What kind of question is this? If the actual facts of the matter, that the Ds had a chance to kill the filibuster but declined, aren’t part of your reckoning,… Read more »

Vva70
Guest
Vva70

People who follow politics are familiar with the filibuster, yes. But are you arguing that there are enough voters who are not only familiar with it, but who feel so passionately about the existence of specific Senate rules to sway their votes? Somehow I doubt that. And the environment around the passage of the ACA was completely different from the environment around their nuking of the filibuster. The Democrats had a filibuster-proof super-majority for the passage of the ACA, and the issue was that they were having trouble bringing their entire caucus on board. You don’t see a difference between… Read more »

ashv
Guest
ashv

At this point, we can’t afford another Democrat win, as seen in Berkeley. Hopefully Trump and Congress will move to change the voting laws/procedures, etc., to prevent it. (Though their selection of Keith Ellison suggests they aren’t that interested in winning anyway.)

ArwenB
Guest
ArwenB

The Left has abused the rules and institutions of our government for so long that it is time and past time that the Right inflicts on them the pain they were inflicting on us, using the rules the Left put in place.

It’s called “Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander”. And with any luck, it will teach them that you never ever give powers to your candidate that you don’t want your opponent’s candidate to use against you.

Katecho
Member

What we are seeing is that the entire culture of the Left is so much weaker than what Republicans have said. Political correctness descends into ineffective shrieking when it is pointedly challenged. All of the concessions and moves to the alleged “middle” on the part of the Republican party in the last several presidential election cycles is now shown to have been completely unnecessary and counterproductive. I find it hard to believe that people will return to being cowed by PCness going forward. They have seen that it is an empty shell. The PC party is quickly burning up all… Read more »

insanitybytes22
Member

Just keep in mind that the PC crowd has never needed credentials nor any authenticity behind what they are selling. They have always operated off of emotion and rhetoric, something they can spark up and trigger at a moment’s notice. It’s foolish to perceive them as weak.

Also, I’m pretty sure Trump is “the middle,” so it is not that R’s made concessions and moved to the middle, it is that R’s failed completely to even understand how the game was being played. They are absolute experts at snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory

Katecho
Member

ME wrote: Just keep in mind that the PC crowd has never needed credentials nor any authenticity behind what they are selling. I disagree. In order for the PC tactic to work, it must be coming from plausible moral high ground. That is what the PC party is rapidly burning up, as we speak. Guilt is their lever, but the guilt tactic, once pierced as hypocritical, no longer motivates. ME wrote: Also, I’m pretty sure Trump is “the middle,” so it is not that R’s made concessions and moved to the middle … I put “middle” in quotes because I… Read more »

insanitybytes22
Member

“I disagree. In order for the PC tactic to work, it must be coming from plausible moral high ground. That is what the PC party is rapidly burning up, as we speak.”

No! That is the same mistake Republicans have always made. Where is the moral high ground in blue dresses, cigars, and Presidents lying under oath? The left has never held plausible moral ground! They don’t even care about such things!

Trump understood this so he just laughed at their alleged “plausible moral high ground.” He also laughed at his Republican field of candidates on the same basis.

Katecho
Member

ME wrote:

The left has never held plausible moral ground! They don’t even care about such things!

We seem to have found another thing that I disagree with ME about. The Left absolutely cherishes any perceived moral high ground. It is their main lever against those with sensitive/guilty consciences.

insanitybytes22
Member

“The Left absolutely cherishes any perceived moral high ground.”

You say this without even noticing the odd juxtaposition between holding the moral high ground and advocating for homosexuality, transgenderism, and pedophilia as a lifestyle choice? Abortion? Socialism, Islam, atheism, welfare….?

The left does not cherish any “perceived moral high ground,” they cherish the delicate sensibilities of those they exploit because that is where their power resides. A lever is a tool, a source of power. They don’t even have to be reasonable, rational, or sensible, YOU do.

Katecho
Member

Pomosexuality, in all its flavors, plays on the moral high ground of love and freedom of association. I’m surprised ME missed that. Abortion plays on the moral high ground of freedom of choice and control over one’s body. How can ME not see that? Socialism and welfare play on the moral high ground of fairness and compassion for the poor. Again, I’m surprised ME could miss that.

I thank ME for giving such abundant examples of how the Left absolutely cherishes any perceived moral ground that they can leverage against those with gullible/guilty consciences.

insanitybytes22
Member

It seems to me as if you are not hearing your very own words. Three times you say, “it plays on the moral high ground.” If it must “play off” of something else, than it cannot very well have any moral high ground of it’s own. All it plays off of is really insecurity, weakness, and a lack of conviction for one’s own values, weaknesses all held by the opposition. The left cherishes nothing but power. If I could just get people to just understand this one thing, I would be a happy clam. Sadly we always seem to insist… Read more »

Katecho
Member

ME wrote:

It seems to me as if you are not hearing your very own words.

Someone is not hearing my words. I have certainly not claimed that the Left actually has the moral high ground, of its own or otherwise. I have said that they cherish the plausible or perceived moral high ground. That status is extremely important to them. It’s their main tool of emotional persuasion. I’m not sure why ME can’t bring herself to acknowledge that fact.

Jennie
Member

Of course, you are both right. The leaders of the left have no ‘plausible or perceived’ moral high ground. They merely want power.

Their left rank and defiled are still concerned about being morally right, and so the leaders feed them what they long for – a reason to hate.

Katecho
Member

JL wrote:

The leaders of the left have no ‘plausible or perceived’ moral high ground.

The Left has no actual moral high ground, but they certainly have (had?) plausible and perceived moral high ground or else they would not have been so successful in manipulating the guilty/gullible consciences of the people for so long.

Jill Smith
Member

I have plenty of lefty friends, and I assure you that they very much believe they hold the moral high ground. Celebration of diversity (racial, ethnic, and sexual), concern for the marginalized of every imaginable sort, concern for the refugee and the undocumented, concern for the welfare of children, commitment to an equal playing field in the workplace, commitment to localism and the environment, commitment to children’s rights, women’s rights, gay rights, farm workers’ rights–these are values held with passionate conviction by people who think those who oppose them are either deluded or morally reprehensible. It doesn’t matter whether the… Read more »

JohnM
Guest
JohnM

The problem is not only that it doesn’t matter to them whether the solutions they propose are helpful or destructive, it is that some of the people they cast as victims are actually perpetrators.

JohnM
Guest
JohnM

Watching the way-left work themselves into a frenzy is entertaining, I won’t say enlightening, since we it’s not like we’re surprised. That said, I think they do care about the moral high ground, it’s just, they just imagine the swamp they’re squatting in is high ground. It is Trump who doesn’t care about such things. He doesn’t laugh at the pretension because he sees his opponents don’t really occupy any moral high ground, he laughs because the concept is meaningless to him.

ashv
Guest
ashv

The PC crowd doesn’t need “credentials” or “authenticity”, what they have needed is power, and for a good long while they’ve had it. Hopefully Trump and Sessions will be successful in destroying their power centers. (If not, expect a repeat of Berkeley everywhere.)

Katecho
Member

The PC party absolutely needs credibility and the appearance of authenticity. Whatever power they have depends on it, as we are seeing now. Having been exposed in various ways by alternative media, they have lost credibility and their power has therefore folded like a cheap tent. They never had any power beyond what gullible/guilty people gave to them.

insanitybytes22
Member

Yes, precisely. They are all about power and control,and they’re downright abusive about it, too.

trey
Member

I agree in principle. But I also agree this is not a time to anoint Trump as the second coming of Christ. He’s still not ideologically a conservative. Any suggestion that he is is absurd on its face and wish-casting. Also, the suggestion that Trump’s cabinet is the most conservative in generations is absurd. It’s full of mostly rich progressive Democrat crony capitalists, or establishment progressive Republicans. The only true conservatives are his AG, who said Roe is the law of the land, and his EPA Director. Beyond those two, this is not a conservative cabinet. To suggest it is… Read more »

RF
Guest
RF

A nomination such as this is the exact reason all Christians should have voted for Trump. I can’t wait until the next SCOTUS pick allows us to overturn Roe vs. Wade. At that point Christians who didn’t vote for Trump (either time, I want 8 years) can admit they were wrong.

Katecho
Member

Dear God, We finally made abortion illegal again. We didn’t change any hearts, and we accomplished it through careful chess moves, without any need for repentance on either side of the issue. Chemical abortion is a thriving new underground industry, now that the “war on abortion” government prohibition campaign has begun. But we have the right words on the law books. You have to bless us now, right? My point is not that we shouldn’t change our abortion laws asap, or that the current above-ground abortion industry should not be shut down. But, for the love of God, socio-economic policy… Read more »

ashv
Guest
ashv

Whose hearts, exactly, need to change? Sounds like you’re warming up to argue that abortion bans are bad unless they’re done for the right reasons.

I enjoy being contrary as much as the next pseudonymous comment-box denizen, but you’re taking it a bit far today.

Katecho
Member

ashv wrote: Whose hearts, exactly, need to change? I realize that ashv is still fighting for repentance to be someone else’s problem, but we’ve already been over the principle of corporate repentance, and our connection with the actions of our representatives. ashv wrote: Sounds like you’re warming up to argue that abortion bans are bad unless they’re done for the right reasons. It’s an easy argument to make. Scripture says that if I give all my possessions to the poor, but have not love, it profits me nothing. Inner motives matter to God, not just raw external actions. Ashv should… Read more »

ashv
Guest
ashv

Who are you and where do you live that you’re the only faithful Christian left? How many people in a city does it take to restrain God’s judgement on it? In a country?

Katecho
Member

ashv wrote: Who are you and where do you live that you’re the only faithful Christian left? How many people in a city does it take to restrain God’s judgement on it? In a country? Can ashv show us where I ever said that I was the only faithful Christian left? It will be difficult because I never said such a thing. I merely pointed out the difference between what Trump represents, and what is actually needed. I include myself in the need for repentance, both personal and corporate. I suspect that ashv’s questions are meant as a further distraction… Read more »

RF
Guest
RF

Explain to me how saving over 500,000 lives is not worth it because the nation didn’t repent first. How is this not the view of a Pharisee?

Katecho
Member

RF wrote:

Explain to me how saving over 500,000 lives is not worth it because the nation didn’t repent first. How is this not the view of a Pharisee?

Apparently RF missed the part where I clearly said:

My point is not that we shouldn’t change our abortion laws asap, or that
the current above-ground abortion industry should not be shut down.
But for the love of God, socio-economic policy is not a substitute for
national repentance.

RF
Guest
RF

As Amos warned, The Day of the Lord is coming. We have killed 60 million people. We have some heavy lifting to do for national repentance. I’m afraid national doom is more likely our future given the weight of 60 million lives. In the meantime, we both agree then, get rid of abortion immediately even if it’s a Trump pick that allows it. No help from NeverTrump folks though!

Katecho
Member

I think RF and I agree on what needs to happen, more than we disagree. We may disagree on whether Trump is going to be a helpful agent in that process. If all we want is a change in the law books, Trump might help with that, but if our actual priority is a changed heart, as a people (which I believe it is), then Trump is a huge negative, moving us in the wrong direction. Trump represents to me a distraction and a false hope when it comes to the question of changing our hearts. Trump is a pride… Read more »

Ginny Yeager
Guest
Ginny Yeager

The Lord hears the prayers of His people. By the prayers of one, rain didn’t fall in Israel for years. For several decades now, lots of Christians have been praying fervently for our nation. In answer to that…Trump? Perhaps the most apropos comment was the song played at Trump’s acceptance speech—“You Can’t Always Get What You Want.” Trump’s life has been immoral in many respects. Not to minimize the importance of that individually, I would say that leaders throughout history (both Christian and not) have been immoral. A monogamous Christian who is a good leader is preferable. BUT WHERE ARE… Read more »

ashv
Guest
ashv

This is my basic view. Trump is unlikely to fix the underlying structural problems of the USA system (but he could surprise me!) — the important thing is that he is acting in the spirit of Romans 13, becoming a terror to those who do evil and a commender of those who do good. Heaven knows we’ve had a significant dose of the opposite.

Jennie
Member

Don’t forget, ashv, God loves really long odds.

ashv
Guest
ashv

That’s what my ancestors believed too. But they lost.

BDash76
Guest
BDash76

many Christians including Gorsuch have no problem with drafting women or women pretending they are men…

so it is not Evil

Ginny Yeager
Guest
Ginny Yeager

Not sure of your point. Capital E Evil as defined by contemporary Christians?

ashv
Guest
ashv

Remember that Trump has had fewer wives than King David.

Jennie
Member

And I’m pretty sure Trump didn’t kill anybody to get one of them. :)

RF
Guest
RF

Trump can’t name two people to the Supreme Court to end abortion. He is a sinner. We have to keep killing 500,000 per year until we repent. We should have voted Hillary in to keep abortion around for 8 more years then we can really repent.

kentwarrenmcdonald
Member

We never know what is in a candidate’s heart. Whether he is a Christian or not is irrelevent to whether I vote for him or her. All we can do is judge them by their fruit. Both Hillary and Donald “Claim” to be “christian”. Bloomberg was a lifelong democrat til he decided to run for Mayor of New York. Then suddenly he was a Republican. Trump has been all over the map politically for the last 20 years. Republican, independent, Democrat. Pro-choice statements were normal up until this political season and suddenly he is pro-life. Given his track record, I… Read more »

kentwarrenmcdonald
Member

David is characterized as a “man after God’s own heart”. He was flawed, yes. But his heart was drawn to repentance over and over because he loved and feared God Almighty. Trump, when asked if he had ever asked God for forgiveness, said no. So I wouldn’t be too quick to compare him to King David.

Katecho
Member

Exactly. Repentance and humility is the glaring difference that many just can’t see. It has no value to them. That’s why David was so unique.

kentwarrenmcdonald
Member

I was a nevertrumper based solely on his character. I was also a NeverDole and a NeverMcCain. I have been a lifelong conservative who always identified with the Republican party. I have NEVER voted for a democrat in my life. On the other hand. As a Christian constitutional conservative, the fact that I refused to vote for Trump on moral grounds, does not mean that I do not fully support the President of the United States. He won the election. He is our President. Period. I didn’t vote for Obama, but I respected The Office of the Presidency and accepted… Read more »

RF
Guest
RF

Pass along some wisdom for me as a fellow Christian. Why when there is an obvious choice between two candidates is it “more Biblical” to not vote for either one even if one of the two (not being the perfect Christian in our eyes, Trump calls himself a Christian and per Dobson) will obviously support more Christian values than their opponent? In this case, Trump has a chance to irradicate legal abortion with 2 SC selections and Hillary is just the opposite. I don’t care is the nation hasn’t repented. I don’t care if Trump isn’t a Christian and is… Read more »

kentwarrenmcdonald
Member

I don’t vote based on whether there is a perfect scenario. I have voted many times through the years holding my nose to vote for the lesser of two evils. My problem this time was I had great difficulty distinguishing which was the least unacceptable. I couldn’t vote Hillary period. But Trump for all the world felt to me like he was taking positions that flew in the face of what he has always said in the past. He was pro-choice his whole life til he decided to run for President. I felt NO assurance he would follow through on… Read more »

LittleRedMachine
Guest
LittleRedMachine

I don’t recall an organized ‘neverdole’ or ‘nevermccain’ movement, especially among political leaders. We were subjected to that from the Bill Krystol/Ben Sasse/Jeff Flake group. These are political leaders who are supposed to be ‘conservative’. We are going to need ALL of the political clout we can muster, not for Gorsuch as much as later down the road. Just wait until Kennedy retires or Ginsburg gets carted out on a respirator. My fear is that this administration has already been damaged to the point that they won’t be able to get a Judge Bill Pryor, for example, confirmed and may… Read more »

kentwarrenmcdonald
Member

I have no idea where you got the idea that “nevertrumpers” were behind fake russian stuff. Sounds like wishful thinking scenario. No there was not a never dole or never mccain movement nationally. In the past there have been from time to time certain politicians who I would simply not vote for. Dole because he publicly repudiated the Republican platform, said he is not bound by it, doesn’t support most of it. That ripped it for me. McCain has long been a RINO carrying water for Democrats by joining in on their criticisms of anything Republican. Liberal media loved the… Read more »

mikebull1
Member

#neverjephthah #neversamson

Protect_Life
Guest
Protect_Life

Doug, forgive me as I never post here and rarely get a chance to read it as much as I’d like. Having said that: Remember back in October when you were talking about not voting for He or She? That you preferred to vote for someone like… Ben Sasse. That got me thinking recently why you would say that. Maybe it was the limited choices going into the election, or perhaps the limited information we had about some write in candidates, like Senator Sasse. Sassy may be a lot of things good, but I’m more curious now about his leanings… Read more »