Conservative Girl Bosses?
I am considering sending my children to a Classical Christian School. One criticism that I recently heard about the movement was the kind of women that it produces: high-achieving conservatives. The argument, basically, was that the emphasis on, critical thinking, public speaking, cultural engagement etc., was more likely to produce women who aspire to be judges, a thought-leaders, politician, that it was to produce providers, nurturers, care-takers.
Is this a legitimate concern/criticism?Bill
Bill, yes, that can happen, but it is not a necessary thing at all. We want our girls to become high-achieving women, but that shouldn’t be defined in masculine terms. Men can define what high-achieving men should do, but they shouldn’t set the goals for women. I am after highly-educated wives and mothers, who overflow into other areas—the way my daughters have. When you have a good classical Christian school, some parents will use it as a ladder in this wrong way—their daughter gets a superb education and uses it to get into the Air Force Academy. But that’s a family problem. But when the culture of a school is given over to that approach, it is time to avoid that school.
I hope you are doing well. I’m sure you’ve seen this event kicked around social media once or twice, so you may have already concocted an idea as to your thoughts about it.
I have young ones under 3 in my life, at least one of whom is a girl, in whom I would like to cultivate biblical femininity. We have a plethora of godly older women in our lives, thank the Lord, but this event created a curiosity in how we ought to understand these things in the conservative world.
Some have shown support for the event, saying that it is good that women learn “women are made for more than homemaking,” and/or “not all women are called to homemaking.” Those are both absurd arguments, as they assume “homemaking” is something worth denigrating, or is less than what it truly is. I wholeheartedly agree with Lewis: “The homemaker has the ultimate career. All other careers exist for one purpose only—and that is to support the ultimate career.”
On the other hand, I do not want to fall into a ditch wherein I do not support a daughter’s desire to write good books, create great art, teach at a Classical Christian school, and the like. Unfortunately, I have seen and heard of such practices in different Christian circles. I’ve also seen many young ladies who become convinced of biblical femininity, but they are still saddled with college debt or other financial responsibilities, and cannot become stay-at-home moms for some time.
How do we biblically walk this tightrope, and how ought we respond to this above event in a way that glorifies God, as well as loves the daughters of Eve around us?O.N.
O.N. I am sure that some of these talks will be really quite good. My problem with the whole thing is how it is being pushed. “Leadership.” “Summit.” “Conservative women really are cuter.” Whether or not a particular talk is any good, the cultural assumptions driving the whole thing are all wrong,
Why Not Both?
Our kids do a great job with verse memorization as part of their homeschool curriculum. I’d like to add the creeds this next school year to the list. Would you advise the Nicene or Apostles creed? They would have the capacity for both.Nate
Nate, if they have the capacity for both, have them do both. But start with the Apostles, and see how it goes.
Retorts That Come to Mind Too Late
Regarding your reference to “l’esprit de l’escalier” in the intro to “Smashmouth Compromise?”: Another Christian [song]writer who appreciates a good turn of a phrase wrote a song about that that you might like (if you haven’t already heard it).Steve
Steve, thanks.
The Sin of Servant Leadership
Was enlightened by ‘the sin of servant leadership’. My wife of 40 years is working on divorcing me. I was that servant leader, and my wife went to an attorney while I was in the hospital with 5 broken ribs and a collapsed lung from a minor fall at home.
She has filed for a protection order (no evidence or actual history of violence) but she claimed i was abusive because I asked her to honor her marriage vows.
She has been attending a ladies coffee for months where apparently they discuss strategies for using alleged domestic violence claims to take control in their marriages.
When released from the hospital, I was on my own. I had to rent a car because my vehicle was still at home (off limits to me) after I was transported to the hospital (my wife has her own car). Since then, I’ve been living in motels for weeks—my friends assume I’m guilty and have stopped communicating.
God is at work in these circumstances. My conscience is clear, I did nothing to deserve these punishments.MC
MC, thanks for writing. In situations like these, of course, I would always want to hear from both sides before drawing conclusions (Prov. 18:17). But it is certainly true that we live in a time when allegations can be treated as though they were convictions. If that is your case, as you have described, may God soon give you a token for good,
What to Do?
I’m reaching out because I could really use your pastoral wisdom.
By God’s grace, I’ve been free from pornography since July 2024. But the struggle with temptation hasn’t disappeared, and I’ve fallen a few times into masturbation. I’ve confessed this to my accountability partner and have strong guardrails in place, and I remain committed to walking in purity.
Recently, while my wife was out of town, I took our kids to visit family. That trip was emotionally draining, and one night I gave in. When she returned, she asked if I had been “good,” and I told her yes—but I hadn’t. I didn’t share the truth because past confessions have led to intense reactions, even verbal and physical outbursts. It feels like sharing everything doesn’t build trust—it breaks it down.
I’m deeply conflicted. I want to walk in integrity before God and my wife. But I also believe some of these things should be kept within the context of accountability, not brought into our marriage repeatedly. I’m not trying to protect sin—I’m trying to protect her heart and our peace.
Still, I lied—and I’ve confessed that to God. But I don’t know if I’m truly walking in the light unless I tell her the full truth. I’d be grateful for any counsel you have on how to handle this tension—between honesty and wisdom, transparency and peace.
Thank you for always being someone I can trust.WS
WS, there really is a contradiction here because you can’t build trust on the foundation of a lie. The issue is the lie, and not the granular level of accountability involved . . . and who it is that’s asking. She has a right to that information if she wants it, but if she is tempted to lose it when she gets that information, I would suggest a different system. You sit down with her and set the thresholds, and she is assured that she will be informed (either by you or your accountability partner) if any those thresholds are crossed.
Drive-by Slander
I listen to Frank Turek I don’t have enough faith to be an atheist— generally it’s very helpful. Today they interviewed some I assume university agreed graduate degree woman who said you put pressure on people through cultish practices. I was kind of surprised so if you wanna have somebody listen to this podcast:
I listen to your podcast regularly and I support Canon Press..
my brother David Boyer Wiley wrote a book called New and Ancient Justice which actually applies God‘s law to the civil sphere. (I believe he sent you a copy but most pastors have no idea how to actually apply God’s civil law in Justice to the culture) I find that most Christians are completely embarrassed about applying God‘s moral law to legislation to regulation to spending, etc.. I rejoice because God is crushing everything built on sand, and the only thing that cannot be crashed is the unshakable kingdom, and out of his mouth comes the sword which slays nations if they will not repent. Bring revival, oh Lord. I’m so surprised that Christians know they’re sinners because they broke his law in thought, word, and deed, but they have no clue how God‘s law does not apply to the public sphere.
Thank you for your wisdom , rich ministry for to him and through him and for him are all things.Carol
Carol, thanks. Shame about Turek’s guests though.
Wealth and Rockefeller
What brought me to this post was the book Titan about J. D. Rockefeller, that had the Cotton Mather Quote as something like; “Faithfulness (Diligence) begat prosperity, and the daughter devoured the mother”.
Made me think of The New Testament about how the deceitfulness of riches draws many from the faith and pierces them with pangs.
And how John Adams writes rhetorically about how it is impossible that drive produces riches which results in effeminate laxity, unmanliness and waste. Rockefeller had been moved by religious leaders who said to ‘get money, lots of it, and give it wisely’
Your post was fascinating. Balanced. Put me on mind of Ben Franklin’s adage;
“To be proud of knowledge, is to be blinded by the light; To be proud of virtue,
is to be poisoned by the antidote.”
Rockefeller’s mother instilled in him the warning; “Willful Waste Makes Woeful Want.”
There’s no inherent virtue in lack of success, financial or otherwise. It is the LOVE of money that is the root of all evil. Make friends with mammon.Jeremiah
Jeremiah, thanks for the adages.
More on Abolitionism
I was reading the last few chapters of Luke as I try to complete my “To The Word” 2024.
Based upon God’s use of the word “Woe” in regards to Judas and sin, does my logic make sense, and would you contend with it if so?
Luke 22:22 “. . . but Woe to that man by whom He is betrayed.”
Isaiah 5:20-24 “Woe to those who call evil good and good evil . . .”
Isaiah 10:1-2 “Woe to those who decree iniquitous decrees, and the writers who keep writing oppression . . .”
Romans 3:8 “And why not do evil that good may come? . . .”
1) The difference in a Statewide abolition bill (equal justice under the law for all humans) in MN being just, and
2) a Federal abolition bill only in MN being unjust is authority.
1) Is a righteous increment, therefore it is not sinful.
2) Is an unrighteous increment, therefore it is sin.
The 1-10 scale you gave is an arbitrary standard to make a point, and does not supersede Isaiah 10:1-2. Phineas was vindicated. Uzzah was not.
I think that what T. Russell Hunter is arguing is that abolition (his definition) has God’s authority and power behind it, and because of that it will succeed.
A heartbeat bill inherently protects the murder of humans without heartbeats, thus showing partiality to murderers against a class of humans. I do believe T. Russell Hunter isn’t against all increments in seeking a total end to legal abortion in our country, but against unrighteous increments.
I think that anybody can see your pragmatic argument that less babies killed is better. But God is not fundamentally opposed to killing less babies, but He is fundamentally opposed to sin. Heartbeat bills are sinful, therefore God is opposed to them.
Love in Christ,Scotty
Scotty, I am sorry, I don’t follow the logic. You say that my 1-10 scale is arbitrary and does not supersede Isaiah 10. But I didn’t want to supersede Isaiah 10, and you still need to explain how it is a violation of Isaiah 10. You can’t just assert that it does.
Stay-at-Home Dads
With the recent flare-up related to Students For Life President Kristan Hawkins directing her displeasure at Mark Driscoll related to his comments on Christian able-bodied men being stay-at-home dads, I’m wondering if you would comment on this? Isn’t one of the goals of feminism to see the reversal in what were traditional gender roles? Hopefully, this is not a sign of the triumph of feminism on the evangelical church, and that with hardly a whimper? Somehow, I see an association of the acceptance of this in the evangelical church and the
alphabet nonsense in the wider culture. Didn’t the man used to say, “I wear the trousers in this house?” Deuteronomy 22:5 comes to mind. Keep up the good work in Moscow ID and abroad.
Blessings,Doug
Doug, the phenomenon of men staying at home with the kids and the wife going out as the breadwinner is a really bad deal. It is a gross inversion of God’s order and design. But the issue is not dad’s proximity to the house. If his blacksmith shop is out back, and he doesn’t have to commute to the city, that wouldn’t make him a stay-at-home dad. Mom would still be inside, making biscuits.
More on Cessationism
“But the purpose of this illustration is to make clear the dilemma I would have if I were in possession of words from God that I believe to be words from God, but which are not in the Bible. I believe I would have an obligation to guard and preserve them, and to treat them as though they were words from God. And that is the position I would be in if I were a charismatic.”
As we continue this discussion . . . the first thing that is supposed to happen when we hear a word from God is that we test and weigh the prophecy, and ensure that it truly is from God, and also that it was heard clearly and completely. We see in part, prophesy in part, etc. Most of the prophecies I have seen are not “new” words per se, but are quoting specific Scriptures into current circumstances. So I’m not sure how that needs to be handled any differently from existing Scripture?
The prophecies I have seen that don’t directly quote Scripture—such as the “your church is pregnant with twins” message I mentioned a few weeks ago—seem to be very local to time and space in nature. We again test and weigh it and hold on to it as firmly as we have confirmed it, and then when God confirms it in miraculous ways—giving us a whole extra church building in a scarce market—we testify that we serve a God of miracles who still talks to us and knows the end from the beginning.Ian
Ian, I agree part way. The Puritans called the preaching of the Word prophecy. William Perkins’ book on preaching is called The Art of Prophesying. And the Second Helvetic Confession says that the preaching of the Word of God is the Word of God. In that sense, the authoritative application of Scripture to contemporary situations is a continuation of the prophetic office, and this is the classic Reformed understanding of preaching.
The difference would come when new information comes in the “prophecy.” The fact that it is local to time and space doesn’t help because that is also true of the books in the Bible. We have an entire hermeneutical tradition that teaches us how to budget for that, and make applications to our own time and space. So why shouldn’t your church publish “your church is pregnant with twins” as an encouragement to other churches that are also pregnant with twins? Not all of them are, but not all of us are facing Galatian false teachers either, or Philippian teachers that were orthodox but envious, or Thessalonian harum-scarum teachers.
The difference would come when new information comes in the “prophecy.” The fact that it is local to time and space doesn’t help because that is also true of the books in the Bible. We have an entire hermeneutical tradition that teaches us how to budget for that, and make applications to our own time and space. So why shouldn’t your church publish “your church is pregnant with twins” as an encouragement to other churches that are also pregnant with twins? Not all of them are, but not all of us are facing Galatian false teachers either, or Philippian teachers that were orthodox but envious, or Thessalonian harum-scarum teachers.
“We want our girls to become high-achieving women, but that shouldn’t be defined in masculine terms. Men can define what high-achieving men should do, but they shouldn’t set the goals for women. I am after highly-educated wives and mothers, who overflow into other areas—the way my daughters have.“
Sounds a lot like defining goals for women. Can anyone actually read this and not seeing that women’s roles, goals and lives are being defined by men? Wives and mothers…seems like that’s pretty limiting…
…yes, because women occupying time in a cube for a boss while their kids languish in daycare is so liberating.
Switch the roles then, or do you only think men can work/make money? Some people don’t have a choice, and no one should be made to feel bad for working or putting their kids in daycare.
Truth is, a lot of them actually do feel that way. There’s this funny idea that I see in right wing corners where we think that all those cubicle-dwelling women would be happier being barefoot and pregnant, as if we have a better idea of what those women want than they do for themselves. It’s not even a situation where the woman is weighing the costs and benefits of the office versus the kitchen and then sort of marginally decides, after a lot of thought, that the office ultimately wins out. No. For so many women, it’s not even up… Read more »
There were always those women, at least in affluent societies. Maybe they were a less likely to get married once upon a time. I’m afraid Wilson’s vision of well educated women voluntarily restricting themselves to a particular lane is, on the whole, unrealistic and ignores history.
The argument also presupposes that the office atmosphere is uncongenial, the boss is a bit oppressive, and the work is dull. I am sure that many women must cope with work situations like that. But, at least until a baby comes along, I don’t think most young women experience it as mindless drudgery. For many, the quality of the social life compensates for the boredom inherent in the task, And, if they are intelligent and diligent, they’ll be given more challenging work. Bosses tend to go out of their way to make good workers feel valued these days. I think… Read more »
“ I am sure that many women must cope with work situations like that.”
No, that’s just silly boomer cope. The reality is many of them are insufferable, toxic boss babes in positions they didn’t earn. It’s the men who are suffering.
Ha, how are men suffering? And how did the not earn their positions? What about Hegseth? I’m r RFK Jr? Or Elon Musk?
Do you have any life offline? Do you respond to anything that gets your panties in a wad within 5 minutes?
All of the men you mentioned did MUCH more than incompetent boss babes I’ve worked with–especially ones with multiple intersectionality points.
I do have no life:) what men did I mention? You seem to respond quickly as well:)
You’ve made 40% of the comments so far (12 out of 30) on this post. You also made the first comment…probably waiting all morning to type your little heart out. I ‘ve written 3 comments. Two were only because of your inane remark instantly posted after my first comment. I also haven’t looked at the blog in 24 hours, much less commented on anything. Here’s a challenge – I will make no further comments on this post. Let’s see if you have the impulse control to do the same. I suggest researching the subject of high vs. low time preference… Read more »
A typical evening for this sweaty goofball. I’m sure you’re a riot at parties 🤭
I responded too soon! What about this for putting women into a small box: “The phenomenon of men staying at home with the kids and the wife going out as the breadwinner is a really bad deal. It is a gross inversion of God’s order and design. But the issue is not dad’s proximity to the house. If his blacksmith shop is out back, and he doesn’t have to commute to the city, that wouldn’t make him a stay-at-home dad. Mom would still be inside, making biscuits.” Your take on gender roles based on “gods design”…sure doesn’t seem like women… Read more »
Can I ask how you ended up on this blog? You seem about as happy here as I would be at my local wiccan coven.
Local connections:) it does make me happy!
Sounds like someone else who used to ruin the comment section with diarrhea-style posting. “I have friends and family members who visit this blog so it’s my duty to spend endless hours here.” Fortunately, he finally got banned.
Here’s an idea: start your own blog if you have so much spare time and think you need to weigh in on every conceivable issue.
Doug’s blog is pretty popular, so it’s nice to get some air time:) And I said local connections; you can infer what you want, but like with other things, you’re off the mark. Just because I question things and differ in opinion, it doesn’t mean my arguments don’t have substance or are invalid. Do you ever have questions? Do you agree with everything people in your groups say? This is an echo chamber…I’m just trying to bring in some hifi.
Do you believe the Bible is 100% the word of God and that we must conform our lives to it in every instance? if so, then make your case for your interpretation of a woman’s role in the family. If all you do is criticize Doug’s case without offering your own Biblically based understanding then there isn’t much use discussing it.
I think the Bible is a guide, a beautiful story about God’s love for humanity, but certainly NOT a complete manual for life. It was written with specific historical context and lenses, and it was assembled by men, not something directly handed to us by God. Biblical roles as you define them have only been the norm in some groups since ~WW2, so I do disagree with where you place women and how you define what they can and can’t do. What about Galatians 3:23? Or Genesis 1:26-27? 1Corinthians 11:5 or 12:7-11, Acts 2 (vv. 17-18)? We’re all made in… Read more »
Lol
Around here we believe The Bible is the word of God.
2 Timothy 14-17: (ESV)
But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
“The Bible is more than a historical document to be preserved. And it is more than a classic of English literature to be cherished and admired. It is a record of God’s dealing with men, of God’s revelation of Himself and His will. It records the life and work of Him in whom the Word of God became flesh and dwelt among men. The Bible carries its full message, not to those who regard it simply as a heritage of the past or praise its literary style, but to those who read it that they may discern and understand God’s… Read more »
Eternal realities can still be cultural…the point of stories may remain the same, but they’re told differently because of the cultural contexts of each age of telling. The Bible is such a story as this. Of course the preface to a Bible has that written in it. The point of the Bible is God demonstrating her love for her people; I’m not arguing that. And there is a lot to learn/garner from it…but you can’t say it specifically tells you how to properly use AI or any other generation specific dilemma. And isn’t Gods word for women as well? And… Read more »
RE: Why Not Both?
I have a Pentecostal pastor friend who homeschools his children. He and his wife have seen great success with having their kids memorize The Nicene Creed.
Re cessationism: If preaching is prophecy, then Paul’s command for the 1st prophet to shut up and listen when the 2nd prophet has something to say applies to sermons, correct? (And if not, then if someone speaking word for word the words of God should submit to interruption, how much more a fallible preacher!) But again: it is a Bible doctrine that non-Biblical prophecies, such as those of Philip’s daughters, can exist. So a prophecy, as such, need not be added to the Bible. Value it as it is worth, thank God for giving it, mention it in a book,… Read more »
Ian, a more realistic interesting question would be if some archaeologist uncovers a treasure trove of writings that included a copy of either the Letter to the Laodiceans or 3rd Corinthians. Would we accept them?
Not all women need to be at home full-time, but all kids need a full-time mom.
What does that even mean? Do we have the infrastructure to support women so they can be at home full time with their kids? No, so people have to figure it out themselves, and if they don’t personally have a support structure in their families or churches, they’re even more isolated and have to be outside the home working to have money to, you know, raise a family and live…period. What is your stance on governmental support to help these types of families/people? Do you think that socialized support should be philanthropic? That doesn’t happen to the extent of people’s… Read more »
So what about the fact that only high income women achieve any net gain from working, after daycare expenses plus the additional costs of having to farm out many tasks that homemakers could take care of themselves, or do less expensively because economical living is time consuming?
What about the fact that most families with two parents need to both work to live? It’d be ideal if both parents could be full-time parents, but that’s a reality few can afford. What about low income women who want to work? Is it a sin to do so?
It means that if you don’t want to take care of kids, don’t marry and have children. Caring for, teaching and providing for another human being inherently requires all kinds of sacrifice. And you shouldn’t expect *your children* to sacrifice the time, love, and discipleship that *they* need because you don’t like being at home. “You can do both” is a lie that many women choose to believe. Another lie is that most people can’t afford a one income life. It’s not easy but it *is* possible, and besides my husband and me, I personally know dozens of families that… Read more »
Ha, tell that to someone with no safety net. Besides, your group’s (reformed, evangelical, etc) whole message is to marry and have kids…check out the SBCs proposed resolutions. And project 2025 to mention of it. Just because you and your friends can do it, doesn’t mean that everyone else can. Have some sympathy…or if you will, some empathy. Saying someone is sinning because they work is a sin in itself…check Jesus’ comments about judging (Matt 7:1-2).