I thought I should say something about Doug Phillips’ resignation from Vision Forum, but it won’t be very much. The news was of course tragic, sad, and humbling. That said, I thought his letter of resignation was good, and accomplished what a letter like that needed to accomplish. I am glad he stepped down from leadership, and am glad he cancelled his future speaking engagements, and that is all to the good. Given the sin, that is what should happen. We should grieve over the damage done, rejoice in his repentance, and wish him and his family nothing but the best.
The second observation has to do with the snark shown by those who see such things as an occasion for venting their spleen. One of the reasons why men in Christian leadership have to be so careful in their lives is that this response is so entirely predictable. When Nathan the prophet rebuked David for his great sin, he referred to this response as one of the obvious and predictable consequences — “by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme . . .” (2 Sam. 12:14).
And that is what they do. But for those who know how the story goes, this is one of those occasions where the enemies of the Lord can be readily identified. By their glee ye shall know them.
Trying to figure out why the ESV and NIV do not mention “enemies” in the translation of 2 Samuel 12:14, but the KJV, NASB, and AMP do.
Thanks, Pastor Wilson.
For the ones who are the targets of that the question should probably be: “What broad impact is my sin having? Because I know I have it, and will until That Day comes for me.”
Pastor Wilson, Am I being too nitpicky by noting that, when I read his resignation letter, I notice Doug Phillips did not step down from Vision Forum but rather Vision Forum *Ministries*? As I can see it, Vision Forum is the for-profit arm and Vision Forum Ministries is the not-for-profit arm. Perhaps I am reading this too hyper-literally, but nowhere did Doug say he resigned from Vision Forum himself. And the Vision Forum website still says he is president and doesn’t acknowledge his resignation in any way. It sounds like he’s going to continue being president of Vision Forum, just… Read more »
Interesting how people who Philips castigates while in good standing are “enemies of the Lord” (ie: people who don’t buy into the whole courtship mentality as set out by Philips, having many children, wives staying home and not working, daughters staying home with parents until they’re married, etc), and then people who detest the hypocrisy of such a “godly leader” sinning in a way that his formula claimed shouldn’t happen are also “enemies of the Lord”. Very interesting.
@Andrew Roggow: details, details, details. Don’t get bogged down in details. Heh.
Mark,I hadn’t picked up on that, and don’t know if it is significant. But it is a reasonable question.
Rudolph, I don’t anywhere call people enemies of the Lord for differing with Vision Forum. I have significant differences with them. I call people enemies of the Lord if they chortled over the news of this.
Well said, Pastor Wilson. We are praying for his family and are grateful to God for his repentance.
It’s always sad to hear stories like this. And scary. No one is immune to indwelling sin. I pray for a hastening of the day when we will have no more sin. Until then, I hope that grace abounds.
So, Mark, the issue is whether a Christian, when this type of sin happens, should step down from other positions of leadership (business, political)? A second question comes to mind with a more obvious answer: Should Vision Forum, as a store for Victorian dolls and wooden longswords, necessarily face consequences for Philip’s behavior? I think the answer is no,…but they probably will. Some consequences are required and others may or may not come to pass, depending on the organizational structure involved, shareholders, trustees, markets etc. My recommendation to Doug Philips would be that he take an ex officio status for a… Read more »
I followed the link you posted. The comments are an overwhelming compilation of snarky women and effeminate men hissing from the porch at both Philips and Wilson. It sounds more like the glee from the witches in MacBeth rather than a sorrowful Christian response. I think that you both hit a nerve so deep that now they must respond with vigor to cover their real desire, to “rule” over their Adam or an Adam still capitulating to Eve. I attempted to post but they would not allow it. Go figure.
Jacob, Yeah, the concern wrapped up in my question was not so much exactly how the organization decides to handle this matter (I really feel I have no vested interest in that answer), but rather a desire for clarity: I’m moreso trying to get to the bottom of whether he is stepping down from Vision Forum as a whole, or just Vision Forum Ministries. If its just “Vision Form Ministries”, then unfortunately, a lot of the blogs and news sites might be giving people the wrong impression (ie. that his resignation is more significant than it actually is). A great… Read more »
Along with D.W., I think it is most appropriate that Doug Phillips step down, cease his speaking engagements and take some serious time to seek God’s face and work on his marriage. I also think DW accurately notes the evil of the gleeful ones.
Mark,
I noticed the Vision Forum/Vision Forum Ministries nuance as well. As I don’t know, I can only speculate. It may be that Vision Forum is a family run business and Vision Forum Ministries a non-profit. If Vision Forum is wholly owned by Doug, to resign would be to quit his job and source of income. That step may be necessary in time, but provision for his family still needs to be considered even while going through this situation.
Doug, That has to be about the best letter of its kind I’ve ever read. A sad day, to be sure. And sadder still that the feminist enemies of the a gospel (for that is what they surely are) are greeting this with glee. For, you must understand, no sin ever exists in their camp. If it did, that would be proof the sinner was never anything but a faux feminist in the first place. But patriarchy is inherently sinful and it’s leaders self-righteous deniers of their sin. Any good a patriarchalist does is because they aren’t being true… Read more »
I think prayers are also in order for his partner in sin.
Well, I think that he overreacted. If he didn’t have sex with her and he realized that he was getting too close, back up. Don’t act like you slept with her, when you didn’t.
Robert,
So, the only sin that can occur between a man and a woman not married to each other is to have sex?
Robert, I think he did the right thing not to get into Clintonesque equivocations. There is so much more to infidelity than intercourse. As someone who has been the betrayed spouse, I found the emotional aspects harder to understand and to forgive than the merely physical.
I am wondering if Doug Phillips has not stepped down from the for-profit arm of Vision Forum because he still has a family to support.
Rudolph,
Who exactly has Doug Phillips castigated?
I don’t have a problem with him not stepping down from Vision Forum’s for profit arm. He still needs to provide financially for his family.
Robert, surely you jest.
So Doug and the woman “did not ‘know’ each other in a biblical sense.” What exactly does that mean? That does seem to have a heavy hint of Clintonese. How far can a man and woman go without “knowing” each other? Some are describing this as an “emotional affair” but Doug’s description is quite equivocal in that regard. Certainly this is a cause for mourning and recognizing that no man (including a very personable, conservative one) is above the temptation of such sin.
“I call people enemies of the Lord if they chortled over the news of this..” Rejoicing in the truth is not the same thing as ‘chortling’. Yes, some (mostly those who have long since left the faith sometimes due to abuse such as Phillips’) are rejoicing in his downfall. Perhaps we shouldn’t judge them so harshly either. You have no idea what they may have been through. I THANK GOD for ministries such as Wartburg Watch who keep a sharp eye out for wolfs preying on the fold. And Jill Smith? He absolutely did get into Clintonesque equivocations. That’s *what… Read more »
Doug Phillips’ resignation from ministry was both necessary and right. The need to resign from a business endeavor in neither necessary nor right, though it might be prudent.
We must be careful not to expect or demand more than is scripturally warranted.
All, I corrected my spelling of Doug Phillip’s name. Apologies to all, and this also lets the Wartburg Watch be right about something. Win/win.
Seriously? The Wartburg Wenches picked on a typo? Why am I not surprised?
‘Tis a pity they don’t take as much care with their own “facts” as they do your typos.
“As those of you in the military know, it’s the XO’s job to disagree with the captain when he sees a danger to the ship or the mission. Then, after full and free discussion, the captain has the final word. Unless the captain is absent, incapable of serving, or deliberately sabotaging the mission, in which case the XO takes over.” http://www.home-school.com/Articles/patriarchy-meet-matriarchy.php/ If this was a longterm affair, I’m guessing Beall knew or at least suspected. And this is one of the huge problems w/ patriarchy. The wife is guilted into never questioning, never challenging. Even if she KNOWS, she is… Read more »
And/or an employee. Which brings up a whole ‘nother issue.
But *twitch* could you *twitch* maybe *twitch* correct the apostrophe, *twitch* too?
My goodness, Sarah. You have, thus far not made a single statement of fact. Conjecture, innuendo, and gossip only.
Sarah — Yikes. You are attributing motives all over the place. 1) You don’t know what Mrs. Phillips knew or when she knew it or when she took action on it. Period. 2) It is not Mr. Phillips’s responsibility to publicly confess the other woman’s sin. And, thanks be to God, he has not publicly named her. You have no data by which to guess at her identity, her age, or her relationship with the organization. It’s between her, her family and church, and the Holy Spirit whether or not she should publicly address her role in this matter. “But… Read more »
Mmmm, Valerie, no. I attribute no motives. I am speculating. For a reason, namely, the odd nature of the ‘confession’. I never said Phillips should name the woman….I said it’s obvious they aren’t expecting HER to come forward. Instead of, “nothing to see here, everybody move along!” it’s my feeling there ought to be much more scrutiny, and many more questions at least asked, if not answered. Putting men in ministry on pedestals contributes to what has happened here. MINDING OUR OWN BUSINESS???? Wow. I’d think putting oneself out there as an expert and authority on godly living, and… Read more »
I agree, Valerie. I think it’s weird that so many people want all the salacious details. “So just HOW FAR did they go??? Were there clandestine SECRET MEETINGS??? Was there TOUCHING? ” I’m sure within Doug Phillips’s family there were many detailed confessions to all the people who *needed* to hear them. As a public Christian leader, it was important for him to confess the FACT that he sinned and the general nature of the sin in order to explain why he is stepping down and withdrawing from public view. That should be all that is needed for people outside… Read more »
Valerie, done. Just for you.
Any of you cyber-sleuths (pro-or-con patriarchy) know whether Phillips
(a) was still serving as an elder at Boerne Christian Assembly Church, and
(b) if so, did he resign (or was relieved of duties) as an elder?
The church site doesn’t appear to have been updated since 2008!
Thanks.
As long as the woman wasn’t A) an employee or B) underage at any point in time, I have absolutely no interest in how, where and when. But I don’t trust the accountability partners any farther than they can be thrown. There have been too many instances in my church as well as many others, where things like this have been treated as ‘church business’ when in actuality there was a crime committed. But I have full confidence that the truth will out, given time.
Yes, but once again, even if there were a crime committed, that is a job for the police. It’s not a job for Scooby, Shaggy, and the Internet Mystery Solving Brigade. And it certainly not our job to speculate about a situation in which we were not involved and about which we do not have all the details.
It is astonishing to me how many commenters on other sites are using Doug Phillips’ situation to entirely discredit the idea of Christian patriarchy, as if a man is supposed to be perfect at all times and if he is not, then his wife no longer has to obey him. I am very sorry to hear about Doug Phillips’ affair and have prayed for him and his family, but his sin (and repentance) do not invalidate what the Bible says about the marital hierarchy. Every husband sins. David sinned mightily with Bathsheba, yet that did not mean that David… Read more »
Good thing I’m not getting paid for it then!
Didn’t realize ya’ll were coming to the comments section to find the ‘facts’. Sorry to have let you down there! *eyeroll*
Sarah, what church do you go to? Who is your pastor? Your elders? They should probably know they are accused of being criminals by a lady in their church. Give names and phone numbers, please.
“lets the Wartburg Watch be right about something. Win/win.” ROTFL, Douglas Wilson. Thanks, I needed that.
That was my thought, Janet. The man has a large family to support. He willingly stepped down from ministry for crying out loud. Now people want to criticize him for not quitting his job – his only livelihood at this point. Do they want him out on the street? If nothing else, consider his wife and children. Aren’t they suffering enough from personal hurt AND public humiliation? Wow.
Every relationship in your life has sin in it in some way or another, You were rude to them. You were uncharitable in some way at some time in thought if nothing else. The sins that would disqualify a man from such a ministry are high profile and public. Greed, quick temper, Financial dishonesty and adultery.. If he felt that the relationship was heading for adultery, then he should have just severed the relationship, not convict himself of what he hadn’t done.
Let’s keep in mind that Mrs. Phillips must have known about this friendship for a long time and she didn’t say a word.
What I think he should have done is gone to his elder board and said, Hey I have gotten a friendship that has gotten too close. Sever the relationship and have an elder start checking in on him every day for the next three months to make sure that he is staying away. This would include having the elders regularly look at his cell phone records. I am all for taking the risk seriously and using the elder board as support and accountability. He should get some counselling and if she is amenable, her as well. Spouses should be made… Read more »
Robert, which is exactly why I think there is more to this story. That’s undoubtedly what he would have done had it been confined to what he is claiming. It doesn’t ring true. Jamie: I’m Catholic. I didn’t refer to my local church, but the Church as a whole, worldwide. It’s taken us a long time to learn the lesson that there’s an important difference between crime and sin, and to stop covering up in attempt not to ‘give scandal’ but just making it worse in the end.
”
Should Vision Forum, as a store for Victorian dolls and wooden longswords,[and multiple sermons on family values, and teachings on purity, and loud holdings forth on gender roles and the sins of Eve, and how wimmins should always submit and obey their earthly lord, etc] necessarily face consequences for Philip’s behavior? I think the answer is no,…but they probably will.”