In the time prior to the opening scene, the ministries of Moscow, Ogden, and Right Response had varying degrees of overlap. I had appeared on the Right Response podcast (now NXR) various times, and several Moscow men had spoken at Ogden’s conference. Brian Sauve had done a concert at one of our Grace Agendas. During this season of interaction, various areas of possible concern became visible to us. In order to keep the timeline below clear, everything is written in the third person.
Douglas Wilson received an invitation to speak at the Right Response conference in Taylor, TX (Feb. 29/Mar. 02, 2024). Because of our general concerns, the elders of Christ Church gave Douglas permission to go, provided he communicate our concerns to Joel Webbon in a straightforward manner beforehand. Two of the concerns were personal in nature, but the third was a warning that to head in an a Jew-hate or Jew-fixation direction would be the same thing as moving away from Moscow. We believe all such thinking is toxic, and contrary to the gospel. Joel accepted the admonitions, and Douglas went to the conference. Given the straightforward nature of the cautions, nothing that followed afterwards could have been a surprise.
En route to that conference, Douglas stopped in Dallas to record an episode with James Poulos on a show hosted by The Blaze. During the conference, an online controversy broke out when the Ogden men and Joel were critiquing comments that Allie Beth Stuckey had made about trad wives and sourdough. On March 2, 2024, Douglas tweeted a thread that urged a cease fire between Eric Conn and Allie Beth.
Doug’s daughters, Rebekah Merkle and Rachel Jankovic, host a podcast called What Have You. On that podcast, they interacted with the Allie Beth online controversy generally, doing so while unaware that Ogden had been part of the initial uproar. Rebekah and Rachel defended Allie Beth as someone who was manifestly on our side, and said we ought not to be in conflict.
The King’s Hall, an Ogden podcast, dedicated an episode to rebutting the points made by Rebekah and Rachel on their What Have You podcast. Douglas listened to this episode of The King’s Hall, doing so because it involved his daughters. This is the only Ogden production that Doug has listened to, before or since.
Because The Blaze hosts Allie Beth, they called Canon Press about the situation, curious where Moscow and Doug Wilson stood. Canon referred them to Doug’s earlier twitter thread concerning Allie Beth. The Blaze then subsequently aired Doug’s guest appearance with James Poulos. But at no time did anyone at The Blaze tell Doug that he needed to attack anyone or do anything in order for his interview to be aired. The public allegations made by Ogden that Doug was given some kind of an “or else” by The Blaze is entirely false.
In late March of 2024, Douglas Wilson wrote a 4-page letter to Brian Sauve, outlining Christ Church leadership’s concerns about how they had handled the Allie Beth Stuckey controversy. This letter to Brian Sauve is where Doug told them this story about The Blaze, and along with other things he said this: “I should emphasize here that if The Blaze, or any other outlet, declined to carry us because we simply disagreed with Allie Beth teaching deep theology, then we would cheerfully forego the platforming. We are not going to trim our convictions for the sake getting a wider hearing.” The intimation that we were responding to pressure is simply false, and is an account that has the events concerned out of order.
The letter was sent because Christ Church wanted Doug to convey concern about the tactical and cultural immaturity of the leadership of Ogden in a private letter, to help avoid “any kind of scuffle with you all, whether public or private.” Doug did not receive any reply to this letter until four months later, in August. While that reply was somewhat encouraging, the four-month silence did not indicate that there was any real eagerness to hear from Doug or Moscow.
In the meantime, the controversy between Tobias Riemenschneider and Joel Webbon broke out. That involved a former parishioner of Pastor Tobias who was now a parishioner in Joel Webbon’s church, and who had become a neo-Nazi. Doug’s public role in this conflict was to retweet a podcast made by Pastor Tobias, in which he reproduced numerous clips from a podcast made by Pastor Joel in order to respond to them. Doug posted that link with an exhortation to remember that Prov. 18:17 applied in both directions. Doug’s private role in this included giving direct counsel and advice to both Pastor Tobias and Pastor Joel in an effort to bring about a swift and peaceful resolution.
On September 11, 2024 Sam Holden published his White Boy Summer video, containing numerous overt Nazi “tributes.” The leadership of Ogden shared and praised this video, although they later stated that they had not known about the Nazi references.
On September 17, Douglas Wilson posted a tweet-thread interacting with the WBS video. Sam Holden responded with derisive mockery. On September 27, Doug responded with another tweet-thread which included the joke that Sam Holden was a presumed FBI operative. The point was a joke, but with a serious point. If he actually were an FBI agent, he was doing a bang-up job.
On November 28, 2024, there was a NQN Doug Wilson & Friends episode (with Doug and his three offspring) in which it was stated that if a husband went “off the deep end” into Jew-hate and related sins, such that he was being a “Nabal,” then his wife ought to be an “Abigail” and she should seek help from church leadership. Leadership of Ogden publicly attacked Doug, Nate, Rebekah, and Rachel for this position, posing on Twitter as if they believed a wife should absolutely and at all times submit to her husband without exception, and as though we believed that when an ordinary situation arose requiring submission, a wife had a constant right to “be an Abigail.” But they did this despite agreeing with the principle that was stated and which they had applied in their own church leadership decisions in Ogden. We had dealt before with a pastoral situation in our community where a husband really went the full-Nabal route, and that is the kind of thing we were talking about.
In the meantime, because of broader concerns in the Reformed and evangelical world, The Antioch Declaration was published. Douglas was involved in the drafting of it, and he was a signatory. Apart from the spiritual concerns it addressed (which would have been sufficient in themselves), Douglas was also concerned about the possible political impact of rising ethnic bigotries in our circles. Donald Trump had just won reelection, and had nominated Pete Hegseth (a CREC member) to become the Secretary of War. His confirmation hearings were coming up, and Antioch was a clear statement of where we actually stood, in distinction from the posting of various edgelords. Had the misbehavior of such edgelords been raised in the Senate confirmation hearings, where really good men were being considered and evaluated, and they were asked about their relationship to the CREC, “home of the bigots,” they would be in a position to point to The Antioch Declaration, signed by Uri Brito, the presiding minister of the CREC, and by Douglas Wilson, a prominent minister in the denomination.
In late November of 2024, a few leaders at Christ Church and King’s Cross churches in Moscow received a ten-page letter of charges and concerns from the elders of Refuge Church in Ogden. There were numerous concerns, including Moscow’s alleged role in the Tobias/Joel controversy, our response to the Sam Holden WBS/Nazi video, the Abigail/Nabal thing, and other issues. The letter identified with Sam Holden as “a brother in Christ.”
Christ Church’s session replied (Dec. 5, 2024), answering some of the main points. In addition to that reply, Christ Church offered to fly several Ogden elders up to Moscow in order to meet with representatives of various Moscow ministries face-to-face. They accepted the offer to come, but decided they wanted to drive up, and to bring three men.
In our December 5 letter, Christ Church said: “You say that corrections should be offered “inside the camp,” but this is precisely our problem. This is a conflict over who is inside the camp . . . you believe that Samuel Holden and his overt celebration of Nazis is somehow inside the camp. But if he was serious in that video, then he is our enemy. And if he was just doing some light-hearted, transgressive WBS stuff, then perhaps Prov. 26:18-19 ought to be applied in a different direction. We did nothing to destroy Samuel Holden’s reputation. He did that himself. If you continue to include him inside whatever camp you are in, you are going to do it to yourself also.”
On December 16, 2024, a Stories Are Soul Food podcast with Nate Wilson and Brian Kohl was dropped, with the theme being A Judeo-Christian Christmas. This was attacked publicly by Ogden, but without listening to it.
The all-day meeting was arranged at Doug’s home on December 19, 2024. The Ogden men present were Brian Sauve, Eric Conn, and Dan Berkholder. Different Moscow men were present at different times, and included: Brian Kohl and Nate Wilson (Canon), Ben Merkle (NSA), Joe Rigney (Greyfriars), Jared Longshore (CC). Toby Sumpter (CrossPolitic, King’s Cross), and Douglas Wilson (CC, Blog and Mablog).
A central part of Moscow’s concerns had to do with the Nazi hat tips and homage in Sam Holden’s first WBS video. But while driving up to Moscow, Eric Conn had tweeted a pic, indicating that they were listening to the “sound track” of that WBS video. This was taken by the onlooking world (and by Moscow) as a statement that Ogden stood in solidarity with Sam Holden, over against whatever concerns we might have.
It is important to note that in private communication with Joel, and with the Ogden men, and with others in their circles. we have been repeatedly informed that with regard to Stone Choir, Nick Fuentes, and others of that ilk, we are in agreement. The Nazis are really bad. The difference between us is that we will say what we believe about that in public, and they are extremely reluctant to do so. They are operating under the based bot bros gaze, and are very concerned never to look like they are denouncing anything performatively.
At the meeting, Ogden asked and we confirmed that no one was recording the meeting. We also agreed that each side would draft a short statement about the fact of the meeting, and run it by the other side before publishing. As part of that, we understood that we wouldn’t be sharing the contents of what was said in the meeting except by mutual agreement. Ogden has since violated that agreement, and even though some aspects of the meeting have been subsequently made public from our side, the Moscow men are continuing to seek to honor it as we are able.
At the conclusion of our meeting, a Signal group was created so that communication could happen in real time about any new issues or questions that might arise between us so that public conflict could be avoided.
While many other issues were covered, one that preceded the meeting was Moscow’s question of whether Ogden felt that antisemitism and Nazi dog whistles and homage like Holden’s WBS video should be tolerated and included within the camp.
A few days after the meeting, Sam Holden dropped a White Boy Christmas video, and Brian Sauve reposted that video in his timeline, along with a warm commendation. The video contained a clip in which a burly Santa bumps into a group of black hat Jews, and there is an obvious bad blood stare down. In the original film that the clip was taken from (Santa Slay), this scene immediately follows a scene in which this same Santa had murdered a Jew, pinning him to the wall with a menorah.
In response to this, Doug wrote the new Signal group immediately (12/24/24), asking about it. Eric Conn acknowledged that it was worth asking about, but that we shouldn’t assume the worst, and they would have to check with Sam Holden about it. After days went by, with no explanation or retraction offered, Doug published Laced With Poo on his blog. At that point, the Ogden men then withdrew from the Signal chat and began to openly attack and slander Moscow and Moscow leadership online.
This timeline is not intended to be argumentation concerning the various positions, but is rather intended to serve purely as a timeline of events that were both visible and invisible to outside eyes.
In the months since, the spiritual problem that this represents has grown in significance, is now a national problem, and the whole issue presents a true pastoral challenge. It now involves Candace, and those on Team Candace, Nick Fuentes, Gab, and others. In addition, there are more than a few two-bit opportunists down on the beach, sleaze surfers let us call them, waiting for the big one.
And that means that this timeline may need to be updated from time to time.