Bricks Made Out of Fog

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Introduction:

I would like to try to make a very simple point, but one which could be misconstrued in a thousand different ways. I would ask my friends not to do so, my enemies not to do so too violently, and for the vast horde wavering between friendship and hostility to read the whole thing before deciding anything rash.

Repentance and Misdirection

Two denominations recently took a strong stand, or so they thought, against racism and the sins of the Old South. The Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) voted to “call our brothers and sisters in Christ to discontinue the display of the Confederate battle flag as a sign of solidarity of the whole Body of Christ, including our African-American brothers and sisters . . .” And the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA), according to World magazine, “overwhelmingly approved one overture confessing past and present sins of racism, and another to establish a study committee on racial reconciliation.”Lynch Mob

At the same General Assembly, the PCA also decided to study the question of women in church office. If I had the camera on my computer turned on, you could catch a glimpse of my shocked face. If you have a cottage on the beach, the breezes blow in from off the bay. If you are in the PCA, the breezes blow in from Manhattan.

Perhaps the problem, ye Presbyterians, is that you try to address problems like this with study committees. What a white thing to do.

Now I Shouldn’t Have to Say This . . .

Before getting to my point, which I do intend to make, I must register a most necessary disclaimer. There really is such a thing as racial sin, whether it is racial vainglory or racial animosity. Sin is always sin, and God always hates it. Racism as defined by God is wickedness. Those who make a pet idol out of their skin tone, or who revile others because of their skin tone are the kind of people who go to Hell. They will not inherit the kingdom (1 Cor. 6:9-10). Racism, understood biblically, is no bagatelle.

So anyone who wants to represent what follows as an attempt on my part to carry water for bigots, or as an attempt to justify what I know to be utterly contrary to the holiness of God, is . . . well, the kind of person who does that kind of thing. Watch for them in the comments.

My objection is not to any genuine repentance of any genuine sin whatever. My concern is that this kind of thing will simply represent a lot of thin wash white bustle, an activity to which we are exceedingly prone, and that it will lead to a perpetuation of the sins we pretend to decry.

“They have healed the wound of my people lightly, saying, ‘Peace, peace,’ when there is no peace” (Jer. 8:11, ESV).

I happen to believe that a good deal of racial repentance really is in order, but it sure won’t be ushered in by any study committees on racial reconciliation who have been reading all the wrong sort of books. It will be brought in by a fundamentalist preacher, right out of a Flannery O’Conner short story, preaching hot gospel with his shirt sleeves rolled up and looking like nothing on earth. I don’t care what color he is. What will matter is the color of his words.

As Defined by God

So I said that racism as defined by God is wickedness. But unfortunately, the word itself—because of the world’s corruption of all words related to morality and moral choices—has become almost totally worthless.

Racism as defined by the world . . . actually, there is the problem. The world is unable to define racism. How could they? They have assiduously built a Great Tower out of the fog bricks of relativistic nonsense, but they still expect everyone to react with horror whenever they snap their fingers and declare that a moral outrage has been committed. The only people this really works on anymore would be the evangelical moderates and SJWs.

Racism as nebulously denounced by worldlings isn’t really anything at all. What is racism? Is it, as the wit had it, winning an argument with a liberal? Is it a failure to smell the white privilege wafting off Harvard Law School in the warmer months? Is it the Tea Party desire to get the budget to balance? You get my point—God hates racial vainglory and He hates racial malice. Everything else should just be considered a political cudgel that the left uses for keeping the unwashed peons in line.

Not only so, but they do this with utter cynicism, as the recently released DNC emails demonstrate. If any of those guys had petards any more, they would have been hoist upon them. Blown up by their own grenades, in other words. Their outreach to Latinos was dubbed “Taco Bowl” Engagement, or Outreach, or something.

So What Is the Real Problem Then?

My point is this. If we are going to repent of what caused the problem, then we need to repent of what actually caused the problem. When our society was openly racist—as it has been—the problem was that it was all very popular. It was Science. All the cool kids were in favor of it. When the world was all about something, there was always a wide swath within the church that desperately wanted to be all about the same thing for the sake of relevance.

Now if the original sin was capitulating to the world’s pressure then, you don’t really show repentance by capitulating to the world’s pressure now. The problem then was the church’s vulnerability to the cool shame. That is what must be addressed, and not primarily the content of the “shame.”

When white people lurch from being patronizing and critical of blacks to being patronizing and laudatory, do we actually think that this somehow represents repentance? Perhaps the problem was that insufferable smell of complacent superiority that comes off both. Thinking that this change is repentance is like thinking that teenagers—who have begged their parents over the changing generations, in turns, to pleeezzzze let them have saddle shoes, bell bottoms, nose rings and that neon-purple spray paint operation for their hair—are somehow gaining wisdom. No, peer pressure just blows in different directions, and so those vulnerable to peer pressure blow over in different directions. Watching last year’s compromises go out of fashion is not repentance, even if, like Esau, you look at your pet rock with tears in your eyes.

If you want to meet the kind of man who would have been out of step with prevailing nonsense then, you should look for the kind of man who is out of step with it now. People who are eager to be in step now are the same people who would have been eager to be in step then.

Tombs of the Prophets

When Jesus taught us about the identity of the caretakers of the tombs of the prophets, what was he saying? What was His argument?

“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets” (Matt. 23:29–31).

Jesus is not catching them out over a slight verbal misstep—“Aha! you said ‘the days of our fathers’!” That wouldn’t have demonstrated anything. Jesus was descended from men who persecuted the prophets (Matt. 1:10). So He is actually saying that the garnishing of the tombs of the prophets was driven by the very same thing that caused their ancestors to stone the prophets in the first place. In one era, what the cool kids wanted was to kill those guys. In another era, what the cool kids wanted was to honor those guys, mostly for being dead now. Being dead made the prophets much more cooperative and likeable. In both eras, they were accommodated by a certain kind of person characterized by an extraordinary degree of pliancy. There is a certain kind of person who will always Do What Is Expected.

You want him to recycle for the planet? He’s there. You want him to dive into eugenics? He’s with it. You want him to establish a man’s character by counting the bumps on his head? Got it, check. You want him simply to accept what Approved Opinion has determined about (check all that apply) 1. the inferiority of blacks, 2. the rates of climate change, or 3. the undesirability of nuclear war. Approved Opinion never stays in one place, so you do have to be limber . . . but some people are ever-limber. They were born limbering up.

That is the foundational sin in all this that needs repentance—caring more about the world’s opinion than you do about the Word’s truth.

But there is a certain kind of man who knows how not to be stampeded. He is not valued greatly in any generation, for he consistently is a pain in the neck, but after he is dead and deep, the praise starts to trickle in.

The Dangers of Group Repentance

One last comment. C.S. Lewis once wrote a stupendous essay titled Dangers of National Repentance, which I would like to commend to all who think they might run the risk of falling into some intemperate passions after reading this post. The essay can be found in God in the Dock.

“The first and fatal charm of national repentance is, therefore, the encouragement it gives us to turn from the bitter task of repenting our own sins to the congenial one of bewailing—but, first, of denouncing—the conduct of others.”

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ron

Amen.
National / Large group condemnation (couched as repentance) and seeing all individuals as parts of groups is wrong (I know I’m doing it, pipe down).
Build on the Rock of Salvation, exalt Him. The winds of the world will condemn you, always. Stand with authority on God’s Word / principles.

Aside: We’re watching the RNC replay where the DNC was in the 90s under Clinton (and the R’s are lapping it up…feelings / national power over economy/crime/etc…we accept the blue collar and poor downtrodden / LGBTXYZ crowd…)

Victoria West
Guest
Victoria West

The problem with racism is it is based on a false premise: race. Race is a modern concept; we find no “races” in the bible. We assume the Ethiopian eunuch was black because he was from Ethiopia. Genetics confirms that there is no gene for race. There is a gene for every skin color from palest white to darkest black, there is another gene for hair color, another gene for hair texture, etc. But there is no Ethiopian or Irish gene. Our country constantly reafirms racism by all the confounded paperwork that asks race questions. Human is really the only… Read more »

ashv
Guest
ashv

This is quite precisely missing the forest for the trees. “I only see a bunch of trees here, where’s the forest?”

“Race” means “partially inbred extended family”. It’s quite meaningful to talk about people of Northern European, sub-Saharan African, Southeast Asian, etc. etc. ancestry.

Victoria West
Guest
Victoria West

I agree – to speak of Northern European, sub-Saharan in more accurate than “white race” or “black race.” However there is no Northern European DNA. There is light skin, blue eyes, red hair genes that often occur together in people from Ireland. However – even though an island country has a fairly limited gene pool – the Irish have many skin tones, hair and eye colors. We often have a much more diverse genetic identity than we realize as the PBS Show “Finding Your Roots” demonstrates.

ashv
Guest
ashv

there is no Northern European DNA.

LOL

David Oman
Guest
David Oman

Lol is not an argument

holmegm
Guest
holmegm

It’s sometimes called for though.

Certain DNA combinations are indeed much more to be found in those of Northern European ancestry than elsewhere. It’s just a fact. There are pools of genetic similarity throughout the world, and yes, they move and change and have indistinct boundaries, but they are no less real.

Jonathan
Guest
Jonathan

Certain DNA combinations are “much more to be found”. They are not limited to Northern Europeans, nor are they present in all Northern Europeans, nor are they necessarily relevant to anything else whatsoever. There’s no genetic dividing line you can make that separates a “Northern European” from anyone else, and the closest things to lines you can find are in obscure sections of genetic material that don’t code for anything that has anything relevant to how society functions.

Ilíon
Member

The problem with people who say “there is no such thing as race” is that at best they are ignorant, but generally they are willfully ignorant (i.e. lying).

Jonathan
Guest
Jonathan

Good – except there isn’t even one gene for skin color, there’s at least 4.

ashv
Guest
ashv

That is the foundational sin in all this that needs repentance—caring more about the world’s opinion than you do about the Word’s truth.

Amen. And yes, the breeze from Manhattan can be felt in PCA churches in Alabama.

Christian Histo
Guest
Christian Histo

How’s the breeze from Moscow? How is the breeze from “all holiness bartholomew”

Waa waa. Your picture of the best government is Russia…. the most corrupt and oppressive government. You are a clown who knows nothing of history or church. But you keep talking because that is what clowns do.

ashv
Guest
ashv

You’re adorable.

wtrsims
Member

Your rhetoric evidently causes inflammation, and in this extreme case, terminal butthurt.

Histo’s got no chill.

Christian Histo
Guest
Christian Histo

Wesley, are you another Avatar for Ashv? You like all his posts, comment right after him, and write posts defending him. If you are an avatar, it is cute that you are defending yourself using a another profile.

wtrsims
Member

I don’t think you know what an avatar is.

But no. ashv and I are two different people.

When you start writing interesting comments worth interacting with, perhaps others will look for, defend, and like your comments, too!

Christian Histo
Guest
Christian Histo

Cool. What are your thoughts on Russia? A shining city on a hill?

Christian Histo
Guest
Christian Histo

Haha. Just reminding you of your own dumb words. You held Russia up as your exemplar. Evidence of your incoherence. I would have hoped that the exposure of your complete ignorance and lack of knowledge of history, church and government would have caused you to pause in your efforts to instruct others on all things politics. But nope.

ashv
Guest
ashv

I’m only pausing to laugh at how you didn’t even read what I actually wrote. :)

Christian Histo
Guest
Christian Histo

Oh, I read it. You might be embarrassed by it now but you said what you said. I asked you for an example of a nation that has done better than the USA over the past 250 years and you pointed to Russia and Poland. Which is delightfully funny on many different fronts.

David Oman
Guest
David Oman

That’s also not an argument

ashv
Guest
ashv

Arguments are for people who earn them.

Ian Miller
Member

I love that essay by Lewis, but when I’ve shared it with my more progressive Christian brothers and sisters, they either don’t see how it applies to them, or they think it’s nonsense.

I am saddened by that. But encouraged by this post – thank you, Doug.

adad0
Member

Ian, one of the points of the post is God’s Word vs. the word of men. Lewis is good, but reiterate the Word to your friends!

“But let the one who has my Word, speak it faithfully.”!????????

Ian Miller
Member

Very true. Sometimes, having someone like Lewis come alongside me to bring the Word is helpful, though!

Jane
Member

And usually, a progressive (assuming they’re not rabid atheist leftists) will give a hearing to Lewis. So when they don’t, you know there’s intellectual cherry-picking going on.

Ian Miller
Member

True. This is definitely the year of picking the cherries that make you feel more angry and afraid.

Rob Steele
Guest
Rob Steele

I don’t understand the hostility to Keller. Is he blessing queer marriages? Ordaining deaconesses? What?

ashv
Guest
ashv

He’s not signalling significant opposition to these things, so naturally some suspicion occurs.

fp
Guest
fp

He’s a thinly disguised Marxist. Here’s part one of an essay that highlights Keller’s socialism:

http://trinityfoundation.org/PDF/The%20Trinity%20Review%2000301%20317WorkersoftheChurchUnitePart1.pdf

ashv
Guest
ashv

Do you think atomisation of society and alienation of labour are not real problems?

pduggie
Guest
pduggie

I do think he wants to ordain deaconesses, or allow it, or people who come from him see no problem with it. Becuase the churches in the North were ordaining deaconesses *before* the 1920s. There are ordained deaconesses in PCA churches because they were ordained before the churches even joined the PCA, Of course, some PCA churches don’t even think you should have unordanied deaconesses. Everyone BTW says its a matter of ‘authority’ for deaconesses, but I am hard pressed to imagine what even a male deacon might tell me to do that I would have to obey him because… Read more »

Rob Steele
Guest
Rob Steele

“Let me clear away. It’s okay, I’m a deacon.” I actually say this.

PerfectHold
Guest
PerfectHold

Philip preached, baptized, called on folks to tell him what they understood.

Daithi_Dubh
Guest
Daithi_Dubh

Being a member of the PCA, I confess I too felt something niggling at me about this recent proclamation from our recent GA in Mobile. Can anyone argue that if genuine sin has been committed, then genuine repentance is in order? NO!!! But something about this – and Pr. Wilson, you get at a good few of my issues with it – didn’t pass the smell test, so I don’t think I’ll be jumping on this particular bandwagon!

John
Guest
John

I’m with you on the PCA announcement and council. It’s a false action that is working to appease the world, not further the church towards a closer following of God’s word, but I don’t really agree about the confederate flag pronouncement. IMO, that seems like something that should have happened a long time ago.

Wendell Dávila Helms
Guest
Wendell Dávila Helms

What’s the underlying principle you’re appealing to here? That we should disassociate ourselves with anything that can historically be associated with racism? (Not that the North was necessarily any less racist than the South, although the South’s racism was in major ways more institutionalized.)

John
Guest
John

The principal is that espoused by Paul in the scripture. We shouldn’t do anything that works as a stumbling block to our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, even if that thing isn’t inherently evil or unclean. It’s undeniable that a lot of black Christians find the confederate flag to be a symbol for racism and hate. We should be willing to give up something that makes them stumble even if it doesn’t stand for that to us.

Wendell Dávila Helms
Guest
Wendell Dávila Helms

So are you going to throw out and renounce private (and local fire department, etc., etc.) displays of the US flag, too? And, while you’re at it, are you ready to renounce meat because it’s a stumbling block to vegans (and sometimes Hindus and Muslims…)? And are you going to renounce any public support of (or opposition to) any political candidates because that’s a stumbling block to people with different political inclinations? Are you going to renounce any vehicles or houses or clothing that’s more than “economy class,” because anything else could be a stumbling block to poorer people? Will… Read more »

John
Guest
John

I’m sure Paul assumed that the hearers of his words would try to use some common sense and wisdom when deciding what the principal should apply to.

Wendell Dávila Helms
Guest
Wendell Dávila Helms

So “common sense and wisdom” tell you that all those other “stumbling blocks” are okay? I think we can conclude that the Confederate flag is okay, too, then, don’t you?

John
Guest
John

Let’s go through a few of your points: 1) Renouncing meat for vegans: A vegan who thinks that people are not allowed to eat meat for moral reasons is in directly contradiction to the Bible (which makes this not at all comparable to honoring the confederate flag). With that said, if I had a vegan over to my house I would most definitely not eat meat. 2) Renounce political support: No matter who you support some people will be offended. So there is no choice that leads to no offense. There are also large ramifications based on who gets support.… Read more »

Wendell Dávila Helms
Guest
Wendell Dávila Helms

If you’re going to prove how “totally incomparable” my examples are by ignoring the most comparable examples (like a different flag) and then distorting other examples (by, for example, saying that not eating meat isn’t applicable because it contradicts the Bible even when that was precisely the example that Paul himself used, or for another example, suggesting that publicly voicing support for or opposition to political candidates is impossible to so much as scale back), then I can only conclude that honest discussion with you is pointless. I’m as convinced as I’m ever going to be that you’re following no… Read more »

John
Guest
John

I’ll let the readers decide who’s attempting honesty and who’s attempting demagoguery.

insanitybytes22
Member

Something that I think is critical here is shame, aka, white guilt. If one has it, why? Is there something one needs to repent of? In Christ there is no condemnation and He went to the cross on our behalf, “despising the shame.” Therefore if one has shame that can be triggered, something is lurking outside of repentance. Why? So, some of the most racist people on the planet are well off, elitist, liberals. They have a particularly unpleasant way about them because it is often cloaked in subtle platitudes. They like to pass of their old clothing onto “those… Read more »

ashv
Guest
ashv

Which is worse to you? Hypocrisy in how they assist their inferiors, or noticing that they had inferiors?

insanitybytes22
Member

Hypocrisy. But I don’t believe in “inferiors,” especially when the IQ of the Hispanic maid is about twice that of fem who has never worked a day in her life but still insists on shrieking about how she has a degree from Harvard, therefore she Knows Things.

ashv
Guest
ashv

LOL. Make up your mind.

insanitybytes22
Member

That’s just it, we can’t make up our mind about “inferiors” because how we define superior and inferior becomes a subjective matter of worldy opinion. Christ turns those human hierarchies on their head and explains to us that the first shall be last and what we do for the least of these we do for Him. So we are not called to perceive one another in terms of inferior/superior.

ashv
Guest
ashv

I recommend re-reading the Catechism on the Fifth Commandment (particularly #124).

Jane
Member

It’s not often I upvote ashv, but this is kindergarten level stuff if you’re orthodox Protestant.

Jane
Member

Except for all the places in scripture where we are given instructions precisely in terms of those inferiority/superiority relationships that DO exist. We are to recognize that inferiors and superiors exist, but *not* to use that reality to lord over, rebel, or envy.

Ryan Sather
Guest
Ryan Sather

So silly of all those dumb Baptists and Presbyterians to think there’s issues of sin as it relates to race in our country. Who would ever think such a crazy thing. I mean from the middle of Moscow, ID, the center for real life experiences of relationships with a great number of diverse people, we obviously are so much smarter and so much more astute to the real issues of our day. In other news, we in Moscow, ID are offering surfing lessons because we are by far the leading experts in how to surf properly. Much better than those… Read more »

John
Member

Funny, when I first read this I was going to post, “Cue Ryan Sather blathering about DW.” You forgot to mention he has been in your office.

Ryan Sather
Guest
Ryan Sather

I guess you weren’t quite quick enough eh.

John
Member

Nope. Hard to beat your enthusiasm.. he must not have been in your office so you were extra fast. A gold star for you.

Ryan Sather
Guest
Ryan Sather

Ok

ashv
Guest
ashv

Let me guess — you’re not racist because you have black friends.

wtrsims
Member

And white friends who paid a lot of money to adopt black children. Their opinions are way more authentic.

Ryan Sather
Guest
Ryan Sather

Actually, I’ve found many areas of racist sin in my heart needing repentance. Much of which was exposed by the Holy Spirit through relationships with African Americans.

jigawatt
Guest
jigawatt

Actually, I’ve found many areas of racist sin in my heart needing repentance.

Do you find any areas of sinful white guilt in your own heart needing repentance?

Ryan Sather
Guest
Ryan Sather

Of course, engaging in the sort of work that I do, I find myself in need of that sort of repentance at times as well. Both sides of the ditch in this mess, are ditches. Lord help us.

jigawatt
Guest
jigawatt

Of course, engaging in the sort of work that I do, I find myself in need of that sort of repentance at times as well.

Thanks for the reply. Can you give some examples of how sinful white guilt manifests itself? I’m not asking about for you personally, just in general.

Ryan Sather
Guest
Ryan Sather

Sure I think white guilt paralyzes people from pursuing relationships and engaging in work across cultural lines. It tends to create a weird sense of ownership on things that do not need to be owned and it stops people from engaging in the real work needed to see reconciliation happen between those of different races. I also think white guilt leads towards patronizing and paternalistic answers by which those who the guilt is directed towards aren’t seen as capable or as having the resources they need to work on the issues at hand. Those are just a few quick thoughts… Read more »

JP Stewart
Member
JP Stewart

And causes a never-ending cycle of repenting for things you didn’t actually take part in…instead of working on much more pressing issues in the church?

Jane
Member

Apparently the only things white guilt causes is more sin that can be used to pile up the white guilt. It never causes any wrong attempts to appease itself, unlike other kinds of false guilt.

JP Stewart
Member
JP Stewart

Judging from your hysterical, hate-filled, ill-thought out rants here, there are probably greater sins in your life than “racism.” But this goes back to allowing the Word to convict you of sin, not the world (with its often twisted definitions of racism, homophobia, misogyny, etc.).

Ryan Sather
Guest
Ryan Sather

Yes, I agree, I have many areas of sin that I need to repent of daily. My hope, only hope, is the gospel. This gospel, rooted in the Word and empowered by the Holy Spirit.

I pray you can say the same.

Ilíon
Member

I pray that you repent of concern trolling.

wtrsims
Member

I appreciate your response. I think what you’re saying there is a good and true thing. My comment was about how some whites within evangelicalism draw that principle out into the idea that they’ve earned some position and street cred so they can bash other whites for not measuring up to themselves–and you can even see it with whites who adopt black children and then wear them as a black badge of authority and moral superiority. They may not have checked their teeth and bought them at auction, but the principle remains the same in terms of the paternalism of… Read more »

Ryan Sather
Guest
Ryan Sather

I work with and know many families who have adopted across racial lines. I’ve never met one who thinks in this way. More so, I’ve found these parents to be gracious, humble and feeling over their heads…which typically is how I feel raising my own kids.

wtrsims
Member

By no means do I think that’s the case for most families who do that, and even as I type this my 2 adopted Ethiopian brothers-in-law sit in my living room because my in-laws have stayed with us to help with our newborn firstborn. But even my in-laws will tell you that they know families, and especially fathers, who use their adopted children in that way.

But that particular subject is more anecdote that arguable fact.

Ryan Sather
Guest
Ryan Sather

Gotcha, that sort of thing would be hideous.

Ilíon
Member

The real test is whether one can/will tell those black friends to take a hike, just as one would one’s white friends.

Christopher
Member
Christopher

RS”So silly of all those dumb Baptists and Presbyterians to think there’s issues of sin as it relates to race in our country”

DW”I happen to believe that a good deal of racial repentance really is in order”

RS”…before dismissing the serious realities of racism as a Manhattan fad”

DW”I happen to believe that a good deal of racial repentance really is in order”

Matt
Guest
Matt

So what does DW need to repent of?

Ilíon
Member

Letting you comment? *snicker*

Christopher
Member
Christopher

Being a philosophy major.

Frank Turk
Guest
Frank Turk

It also may be said to consider the problem of the Headline-Driven Church:

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sosa5v

Matt
Guest
Matt

You are way too obsessed with what the “cool kids” think and being contrarian towards that. How about when the “cool kids” are right, let them have their day, such as with the recent long overdue Confederate Flag decision.

And then at least the cool kids are attempting to do something. What exactly is your proposal? Why do I have the feeling it is something like “wholesale support of the conservative movement’s economic and social agenda”?

ashv
Guest
ashv

“at least the cool kids are attempting to do something”.

Didja ever stop to think that might be the problem? Responses like this make it clear that your motive is status and good emotions, not love.

Suppose your child gets injured, and in the process of trying to help, you make the injury worse. What is your response? “Oh well, at least I tried”? That’s not what love says.

Matt
Guest
Matt

True that it is better to do something useful than not. However, the fear of doing something unhelpful should not be used to forestall any action whatsoever. And In these specific cases, it’s hard to see how e.g. getting rid of the Confederate Flag is going to make race relations worse. Black people overwhelmingly dislike the thing and want it gone.

ashv
Guest
ashv

LOL

Matt
Guest
Matt

OK

Ilíon
Member

I overwhelmingly dislike having my pocket picked by government bureaucrats so that they can subsidize the bad life decisions of people I don’t even know with the expectation that those people will block-vote against my interests.
So, we can get rid of welfare and social security, right?

Matt
Guest
Matt

If you can get a majority to agree, then yes? Not sure what you’re after here.

Ilíon
Member

I’m after trying to get you to *grasp* your own logic.

Jane
Member

I think his logic says that if it’s a good thing, then do it, without reference to the fact that bad people also think it’s a good thing. I’m not sure how that’s defeated by pointing out that the welfare state might come in for the same treatment.

Ilíon
Member

No, his “logic” was
1) the assertion that “Black people overwhelmingly dislike the thing and want it gone”
2) ERGO, the thing must be made gone.

Matt
Guest
Matt

I grasp my logic fine, but I’m not sure you do. You are just one person, but if there are a lot of people that agree with you, then the principles of democracy would seem to hold. It’s not as though welfare or SS are constitutional requirements.

Wendell Dávila Helms
Guest
Wendell Dávila Helms

The Confederate flag is a symbol of the right to resistance to the centralization of power and (ultimately) secession, even and especially when the differences of those that would resist centralization are wrong in the eyes of popular morality (or when a largely false myth of wrongness is laid on them, or when a false myth of the centralizers’ moral superiority is promoted.) It’s essentially the same difference as between freedom of speech so long as you agree with me vs. freedom of speech even and especially when you’re disagreeing; or the the difference between tolerance that demands and requires… Read more »

Arwenb
Guest
Arwenb

What was that kerfuffle a couple years back about a college student displaying the stars-n-bars in his dorm window, and everybody was all het up about how horrible and racist it was… until the found out the student was black?

ashv
Guest
ashv

Racist BBC News trying to perpetuate the myths that divide us: http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-36888541

Jonathan Frank
Guest
Jonathan Frank

I am a lay member of a PCA church. I too had some concerns about this overture: while some remain, they were – pending future results, as it were – mitigated by a discussion with my pastor. In his estimation, the PCA overtures were more or less a way to endorse church discipline of particular racial sins. It has not escaped me that this could be taken another way – the way I am naturally inclined to take it, in fact, but I can wait and see – as kowtowing to popular pressure on racial subjects while not actually addressing… Read more »

Jennie
Member

I heard an interview with a black pastor at a Philadelphia church a while back. He said that the SBC had reached out to him and had helped pay for a new roof on his church. While grateful, there is still a lot of distrust of whites, and the SBC specifically, there. It still boggles my mind that organizations think they can make a proclamation in the public square, and all will be well. If reestablishing a relationship with black churches is what the SBC wants, why not encourage white churches to host picnics with their black brothers and sisters… Read more »

Christian Histo
Guest
Christian Histo

I agree with a lot of what you say. Now, you are on the floor of GA and the motion comes up of whether or not to repent of racial sins of the past….. and you say “no”? Really?

Ryan Sather
Guest
Ryan Sather

“If you find that the statement “Black Lives Matter” bothers you, but not “Blue Lives Matter,” then the operative word is “Black”. That should tell us something. There’s something deeply discomfiting about the word “Black.” I think it’s because it reminds us of our whiteness and challenges our notion that race doesn’t matter.” http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-halstead/dear-fellow-white-people-_b_11109842.html

ashv
Guest
ashv

This problem all started since blacks became free.
Black lives used to be expensive.

Ryan Sather
Guest
Ryan Sather

Doug, it’s so revealing to see how you continue to grow racist bile like this garbage from ashv.

Christopher
Member
Christopher

what ashv says is just as “grown” from Doug as what you say.

Christopher
Member
Christopher

The statement isn’t the problem, the movement is.

Jack Bradley
Guest
Jack Bradley

Confederate flag Douglas, I know you quite well enough to know that you have not a racist bone in your body, but I must agree with this comment: “You are way too obsessed with what the “cool kids” think and being contrarian towards that. How about when the “cool kids” are right, let them have their day, such as with the recent long overdue Confederate Flag decision.” And this: “Now, you are on the floor of GA and the motion comes up of whether or not to repent of racial sins of the past….. and you say “no”? Really?” Especially… Read more »

Jack Bradley
Guest
Jack Bradley

After all, “Judgment must begin at the house of God.”

Old Goat 44
Guest
Old Goat 44

In the city where I live there are a large number of people who are second and third generation hopeless and helpless. If the Confederate flag and all other symbols that are troubling to the minds of many people were to cease to exist, would that make any difference in the lives of the hopeless and helpless?

Old Goat 44
Guest
Old Goat 44

What exactly does a racist do? What is the specific craft of a racist. If I woke up tomorrow and discovered that I had become a racist, what would my first move be? How would I conduct myself during the day?

ashv
Guest
ashv

troll on internet comment threads

Conserbatives_conserve_little
Guest
Conserbatives_conserve_little

How should Christians that are Native American approach the issue of Treaty rights? They do legally have some opportunities non Natives don’t. Depending on theTribe, the can hunt and fish in certain places. There is money for some tribal members that come under treaty issues. I know that members of Colville Confederation receive money twice a year from the profits of the hydroelectric dam on their reservation.

Jack Bradley
Guest
Jack Bradley

Reed DePace, commenting on the PCA repentance proclamation, recently posted a very helpful piece on corporate repentance: “Corporate-historic repentance is exemplified in the circumstances of Jeremiah (14:20), Daniel (9:6-8), Ezra (9:6-7), Nehemiah (9:2), and the Apostolic Church (Acts 7:51-52, 58, 60; 8:1; 9:176-20). Corporate-historic repentance does not say I am personally guilty for the sins of my forefathers. Corporate-historic repentance instead acknowledges the truth of God’s word that my forefather’s iniquities (sin with its guilt) are a burden that only the gospel can remove. More, corporate-historic repentance declares to the ones offended by my fore-fathers’ sins that I recognize they… Read more »

Jonathan
Guest
Jonathan

“Their outreach to Latinos was dubbed “Taco Bowl” Engagement, or Outreach, or something.”

You do realize that that statement in a email was simply a single staffer mocking Trump’s statement, right? The reference was to Trump, not to Latinos.

Either you have made an honest mistake (and can retract) or you’re lying to slander another.