“The Spirit’s work does not come through the means (the sermon, the sacrament) like water through a garden hose. Rather, the Spirit’s anointing is given on account of the means . . . He meets us where He promised He would, in the Word and in the sacrament” (Against the Church, p. 193).
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Your Larger Catechism’s second answer says that while “nature” may be said to go so far as to “declare plainly that there is a God”, the “Word and Spirit only do sufficiently and effectually reveal him unto men for their salvation.” And your meeting ground statement in Against the Church here seems to agree. So what do you make of the idea promoted by the John fellow — that at the beginning, even before there was written Word or held sacrament, He was present? Do you agree He was there as sufficient & effectual light of men, and that in… Read more »
@eric Stampher
How interesting!
I had never seen those ideas expressed before today.
thx.
t
“Word and Spirit only do sufficiently and effectually reveal him unto men for their salvation.” From the beginning, a true revelation of God, that is, eyes that were opened to His true character, came only through obedience to the Word, preceded by the conviction of the Spirit and followed by indwelling as a representative of God (at least, that was the intention in Eden). Sacramentalism conveniently makes ‘Christians’ while bypassing obedience, whereas Jesus says those in His family are those who not only hear the Word but do His Father’s will. After Word and Sacrament comes Government, and this is… Read more »
@ Eric. It’s not as if the glory of God is not writ large in nature (Ps. 19:1, Rom 1:19-20). However, sin has blinded the eyes of mankind in that all by nature misconstrue and twist the message of the cosmos (Rom. 1:21-23). That’s why the Word preached is a necessity (Rom. 10:14) Calvin uses the image of spectacles to explain the written Word. It’s not that the message of nature is defective, it’s that we are defective. “For as the aged, or those whose sight is defective, when any books however fair, is set before them, though they perceive… Read more »
Is then the Reformed argument:
“Scripture without the Spirit helping is much clearer than nature without the Spirit helping.”?
If we say neither scripture nor nature suffices without Spirit,
Shall we not also say either nature or scripture suffices with Spirit?
Does not Paul refute the Larger Catechism’s (and our dear pastor Wilson’s) presumption,
when he report some gentiles — with no written Word & no Sacrament —
receiving through nature the Spirit of salvation?
Let brotherly shove continue. Does He meet us in prayer? Is prayer one of the four top things with word, sacrament, and fellowship (Acts 2), or one of the top two, with the word (Acts 6)? Is prayer in about 5th place at Christ Church after word, sacrament, government, and music? (For all I know y’all outpray the Koreans; I’m just suspicious and curious.) No, Eric, it’s our comments that the Kingdom REALLY needs. More seriously, now that we’ve got the Bible–and how glorious it is!–God generally works somewhere in its neighborhood. Before men had it, they didn’t have the… Read more »
Eric,
My take on it is thus, using the following “math”:
“to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?”
” So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.”
“How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?…So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Christian smack talk. love it. (:
You guys are good.
thank you.
humbly.
t
In the hands of the hovering Spirit — the flowers of the field make pretty good preachers.