Thoroughly Gay

As we continue to meditate on the importance of self-control, and its relationship to other forms of free governance, we have to do more than consider control of appetites and emotions that we know to be a problem. We also need to exercise self-control when it comes to suppression of false virtues.Exhort

One of the false virtues of the modern evangelical church is the “virtue” of softness. Now of course gentleness is a fruit of the Spirit, right alongside self-control, but it is sign of our decadence that we have confounded softness and gentleness. Of course we are to cultivate gentleness, but Christian men are to be, as the phrase goes, velvet-covered bricks. Men are called by the Spirit of God to be hard.

Self-control therefore calls us to embark on the process of growing up into our masculinity and our femininity respectively. These are to be pursued and embraced. It is a mark of how much we in the church have been affected by the propaganda of our diseased culture that what I am about to say is going to sound hokey and lame. Boys need to learn how to be manly. Girls need to learn how to be womanly. Only Spirit-given self-control can equip us to do this, particularly in the face of unrelenting pressure from the world. But that world has abandoned its knowledge of masculinity and femininity only because the evangelical church abandoned it first.

This all sounds like a cartoon, right? Objections start to fly immediately. All the boys have to play football and work on cars? The girls need to concentrate on their cross-stitch? The boys have to cultivate a gruff voice? The girls have to make us all some biscuits? The fact that this paragraph resonates more with us than the previous paragraph did is why we have to meditate on this as we kneel to confess our sins. This has been one of our fundamental compromises—the evangelical church is still (thank God) predominately heterosexual . . . but our culture of evangelical leadership is thoroughly gay.

We have chosen as a template for leadership one that selects for softness (malakos), as though we wanted representatives for Herod’s courts (Matt. 11:8). We have ignored the apostle’s solemn charge in 1 Cor. 16:13 literally to “play the man” (andrizomai). And why? Lack of self-control.

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insanitybytes22
Member

Hmmm, interesting. I think it may be far worse and far more complex. These ideas of softness versus hardness are not always so easy to define. Men are called to be hard? Yes, but there are also some real perversions of masculinity that act as if being hard is some kind of admirable quality in and of itself. Hard headed? Hard hearted? Or just arrogant and full of ego? Suffice it to say, the beginning of all wisdom is not “to be hard.”

bethyada
Member

Doug’s written whole books on this.

The brick is strength to care for his family against those who would fight against his family. The velvet is so that he is gentle with his family.

insanitybytes22
Member

Yes. I certainly don’t doubt Wilson’s intentions, just how that information is received, how it actually plays itself out in the real world. People are outside of the church for a variety of reasons, many self inflicted, but a frequent complaint from both men and women is hard men, the male ego run amuck. I think there is a whole lot of confusion over what it means to “be hard” versus what it means to be strong. So while Wilson says, “we have confounded softness and gentleness,” I think the truth is we have actually confounded being hard with being… Read more »

Christopher
Member

More than likely we have confounded both.

40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN
Guest
40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN

People are outside of the church for a variety of reasons, many self inflicted, but a frequent complaint from both men and women is hard men, the male ego run amuck.

Yeah, that’s the problem with Christianity these days.

It has too many hard men.

LMAO

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

I think there is a lot of unclear thinking here. But, I think of my dad surviving years in a German prisoner of war camp and a forced march across Europe, and when I look at some men I know who pride themselves on being sensitive, they couldn’t have done the same.

40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN
Guest
40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN

I think there is a lot of unclear thinking here.

Yes, there is.

But thankfully there’s a diversity of gifts.

Some are called to preach.

Some to prophesy.

And some to perform bozoectomies.

Little is much when God is in it.

JP Stewart
Member

And not enough of them are being henpecked, ruled and deprived of “unearned” sex from their wives. We just need more feMEnism…the “Christian” type, of course.

duellsquimby
Member

I remember Doug saying that us Christian men should be hard for our families, not hard on our families. I think about that alot.

ashv
Guest
ashv

Pastor Wilson’s answer has historically been “hard headed and soft hearted”.

I’m sorry your father hurt you.

adad0
Member

A’,

From her site, it sounds to me like Memi’s father was about as dedicated as a father can be, and Memi very much appreciated that about him. She honors her late father to this very day.

insanitybytes22
Member

Thanks A-dad, your kindness is much appreciated.

It’s a stereotype of some that all women just have daddy issues and must hate men. All in good humor here, but I have seriously tried to hate some but I just can’t do it. There’s my Heavenly Father, my earthly father, my husband, my brother, my son….and so alas, I must hold men in much higher regard than many of them deserve.

adad0
Member

Not to mention that you and your husband honor your “still on the planet” mother as well!
As obedience goes, the 10 commandments are always a good place to start!????????????☀️
Your general level of respect and good humor doubtlessly remains a ministry. Perhaps more of our commenters here will begin to gather that !
????

fp
Guest
fp

This has been one of our fundamental compromises—the evangelical church is still (thank God) predominately heterosexual . . . but our culture of evangelical leadership is thoroughly gay. That’s quite the indictment of church leadership. That’s not to say that it’s not warranted. I’ll never forget the time our pastor told the story of a shacked-up couple who came into his office and asked why God wasn’t blessing them. The answer he gave them is that the way they were living was not God’s best for them. Perfect example of softness, but the real indication of institutional church failure is… Read more »

adad0
Member

So Doug, could you explain a bit more about what it is that “we” or you need to confess and repent of in this area of false “softness”?

Did Elija or John the Baptist have to repent for the condition of Israel in their times?

Also. Which church leaders did the blind guiding in this “softness” area?

40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN
Guest
40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN

But that world has abandoned its knowledge of masculinity and femininity only because the evangelical church abandoned it first.

Femininity?

Do you mean like the time you were blogging about marriage and Valerie (Kyriosity), one of your church members, casually referred to millions of young American men as doofuses?

Or did you mean like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJmfNEFen-o&t=3m50s

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

40 Acres, this raises the question of definitions. Do you see a distinction between feminine and ladylike? My darling aged mother would see the conduct of the singer in the video as definitely unladylike. When I sing in public, she prefers to see me in a cassock and surplice with a white ruffle around my neck. But what makes the singer unfeminine to you? Is it the apparel, or the sensuality? I don’t know the context of Valerie’s remark, but again, what makes it unfeminine? Surely you are not suggesting that the feminine woman doesn’t notice unintelligent behavior in the… Read more »

40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN
Guest
40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN

I don’t know the context of Valerie’s remark, but again, what makes it unfeminine? Surely you are not suggesting that the feminine woman doesn’t notice unintelligent behavior in the opposite sex? It’s one thing to “notice” something. It’s an entirely different thing to casually slur the typical American man in his 20s as a “doofus.” The context? That’s what makes it really rich. The context was Doug lamenting that there are many young ladies in his church that would like to get married but no men seem to be interested in. Well, if Doug teaches the women at his church… Read more »

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

That is a lot to think about–but I would rather think about it than clean the kitchen, so here goes. I do see a difference between feminine and ladylike, although I believe women should strive for both virtues. Tight blue jeans, the kind with Calvin Klein labels and hefty price tags, can actually reveal femininity by emphasizing curves. Men seem to find them sexy, but not ladylike. Men seem to find tight red spandex dresses feminine in the sense of “I am woman, come and get me”, but nobody in their senses would find them ladylike. Prairie muffin dresses are… Read more »

40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN
Guest
40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN

I personally believe that a truly ladylike and feminine woman can wear pants without losing either quality. I, and 1500+ years of Western history, say you are sorely mistaken. But what, in your opinion, constitutes the respect that a feminine woman should feel for men in general? I am speaking not of outward conduct but of internal thought. LOL That’s a topic for a book, not a blog comment. And, believe it or not, I am in the middle of cleaning the kitchen. But you dodged my first point. So – do you think the woman in the video is… Read more »

Jill Smith
Member
Jill Smith

Well, no, I don’t think it is ladylike. I don’t think the issue is her singing–after all, many bands have a guest singer from time to time. If she is a guest performer and not a member, I can’t see grounds for complaining that gender roles are being blurred on that basis alone. I think the larger question is whether a Christian lady should perform in a way that resembles how a non-Christian woman might perform at a rock concert. But I have noted that Reformed Christians are surprisingly liberal about issues that Baptists, for example, might have trouble with.… Read more »

Carson Spratt
Member

This is the problem with trying to make transient symbols absolute. The meanings of pants have changed. Deal with it. If you want to revert to old meanings, then perhaps we should also bring back the swastika, which used to be a respected version of the Christian cross.

Also, you’re laughably wrong about the band thing. Do you think a guy could sing in a female timbre? No? Well, then, all you’re really quibbling about is the name of the band.

40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN
Guest
40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN

LMAO

A rule that obtained for some 1500 years is “transient.”

You’re a member of Christ Church, right?

Gosh, I wonder where Valerie got the idea that men are doofuses?

adad0
Member

Oh gosh 40 oz.!

I’m actually a bit surprised that you could loft such a self exposing soft ball! ; – )

40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN
Guest
40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN

Two words, dad.

Big dogs.

Porches.

‘Nuff said.

adad0
Member

Is it just me,

or was that 5 words? ; – )

(As we both click away on the virtual internet environment.)

Christopher
Member

“Do you think a guy could sing in a female timbre? No?”

Actualy…
https://youtu.be/40bTOCv3_ak

Dan Kreider
Guest
Dan Kreider
Carson Spratt
Member

Well, those particular guys. I am aware of male sopranos, but those Logos Dads ain’t them.

Kilgore T. Durden
Guest
Kilgore T. Durden

The idea that men and women ought to dress differently and never even hint at mimicking the opposite sex goes back much further than just Western history. The argument that times change is merely a cudgel to shoehorn in a betrayal of God’s eternal Law. The difference between the seriousness of this issue in God’s Word versus the lack of it in the modern-day church alone ought to be proof enough of our major failure.

Dave
Guest
Dave

FAAK, I can tell you with full authority that the majority of young men in America right now are doofuses. I work with them and have to remind them of the rules each time even though the rules are written in black and white in plain text English. And, they still can’t get it right. Many of our young women experience the same problem. The evangelical church did abandon the hard points in the Bible years ago along with preaching the Word and teaching. I visited the largest Southern Baptist church in Northern Virginia and it took the preacher about… Read more »

40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN
Guest
40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN

FAAK, I can tell you with full authority that the majority of young men in America right now are doofuses. I work with them and have to remind them of the rules each time even though the rules are written in black and white in plain text English. And, they still can’t get it right.

LOL

I’m convinced!

insanitybytes22
Member

Okay, after having read this thread and comments from the usual suspects, I’m wondering if “doofuses” is a proper spelling, or if perhaps the word should actually be doofi?

40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN
Guest
40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN

FYI, niggler has two g‘s.

40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN
Guest
40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN

our culture of evangelical leadership is thoroughly gay. Be careful not to paint with too broad a brush here, Doug. Rick Trotter, the worship leader in Memphis who’s a brother-in-law to Bryan Loritts, one of the biggest peddlers of the “racial reconciliation” malarkey, certainly isn’t gay. He was recently arrested because, when women would come and pray at the altar, he would kneel and pray with them. While holding his phone up their skirt and taking pictures. And, lo and behold, he’d been fired from another Memphis church a few years before for the same thing (his brother-in-law Bryan Loritts’… Read more »

insanitybytes22
Member

That’s a relief. At least he’s not feminized.

Jennie
Member

“Oh no! But, look, poor me, what a terrible tragedy is here! Eyes, do you see? How can it be? Oh, dainty duck! Oh dear!”

I actually agree with something 40 said.

Deuteronomy 22:5 “The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.”

40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN
Guest
40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN

I actually agree with something 40 said.

What’s your mailing address? I’d like to send you some literature about our organization.

40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN
Guest
40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN

Oh, dainty duck!

You learn something new every day!

(Actually, in my case, that’s just a figure of speech – I know so much already that I only learn something new every couple weeks or so.)

I thought I knew pretty much all of the really cool ejaculations from great literature, but Oh, dainty duck! is a brand new one.

And it’s a keeper.

It will definitely come in handy when I’m performing bozoectomies:

Out, damned dainty duck! Out, I say!

Coming soon to a comment box near you!

40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN
Guest
40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN

Also, this But that world has abandoned its knowledge of masculinity and femininity only because the evangelical church abandoned it first. is flat out nonsense. It’s a lack of courage posing as spirituality. And it’s typical of Doug’s approach to most serious social problems in America. Bring up a serious and widespread sin. Wax eloquent about what a problem it is. Denounce it in no uncertain terms. Then, when it’s time to get down to cases, and start naming names, take a powder. Instead, start going on and on about how it’s all the fault of Christians. Mr. Goldberg heartily… Read more »

ashv
Guest
ashv

Enjoy this excerpt from TIME Magazine, March 1942, about a meeting of American church leaders:

https://nickbsteves.wordpress.com/foundational-readings/american-malvern/

40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN
Guest
40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN

I don’t see any connection between this article and Doug’s post, or between the article and my reply.

Is there one?

ashv
Guest
ashv

The current evangelical church comes from this background. It successfully rejected some of the things they got wrong, but not all of it.

40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN
Guest
40 ACRES & A KARDASHIAN

The current evangelical church comes from this background. It successfully rejected some of the things they got wrong, but not all of it. That’s not correct. Unless you’re arguing that these political ideas are inherent in Christianity itself. Evangelicalism began as an explicit rejection of the people, doctrines, and politics of the Federal Council of Churches (which later became the National Council of Churches). And the FCC was based on an explicit rejection of the historic doctrines of Christianity. In fact, it was an attempt to destroy them and replace them with socialism and Communism. Religiously, the FCC was a… Read more »

Katecho
Member

When Jesus took on the evangelicals of His day, He delivered seven woes concerning the Pharisees. Jesus denounced their ways in no uncertain terms. Yet where were their names listed? Does 40 ACRES think Jesus took a powder? Were there any ladies swooning? Perhaps 40 ACRES is just looking for a railer and a brawler, or just any cynical reason to pan Wilson. Perhaps 40 ACRES is not the definitive authority on what masculinity looks like, especially when his arguments shipwreck in the case of Christ Himself. Perhaps there is a time to name names, and a time to let… Read more »

Jennie
Member

“But that world has abandoned its knowledge of masculinity and femininity only because the evangelical church abandoned it first.”

Yes. That line is the most interesting and provocative in the whole post, and my DH and I have talked about it nonstop for two days, doing our best to connect the dots. In this case I appreciate the “room” to suss through it ourselves.