The Piracy That Is Socialism

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Meanwhile, over on the Democratic side of the presidential campaign, we find that we have merely made our way over to the other side of the fun house.

That race is between Hillary Clinton, queen of mendacity, Bernie Sanders, king of authentic economic lunacy, and, of course, TBD. TBD will get into the race under several conditions. If Hillary is indicted, or even if the FBI recommends indictment, then the donors will officially panic, regardless of whether Hillary thinks she can weather the storm. The second condition would be if Hillary continues to lose or almost lose primaries all by herself, with or without an indictment.Sanders Energy

For, truth be told, she is simply a bad candidate. She was wafted into the inevitable flight path by the establishment media, but even they have had trouble keeping her aloft once she got out there in public and people had to start listening to her. She is cynical and corrupt, and she has forgotten the first rule of demagoguery, which is that you have to more than halfway believe your own lies.

And, by way of contrast, Bernie believes all of it. Bernie thinks we can top off the pool by filling up a bucket at one end of it, scurrying to the other end, and dumping it in. As seen on the Internet, he thinks you can buy a power strip, plug it into itself, and thereby have an endless energy supply. And he does it all with a crusty and avuncular down-home honesty. Put Clinton and him side-by-side and the words that will come unbidden into the minds of young millennial Democrats is “old harridan” and “old dear.”

So much for the rhetoric of the thing. We now come to the substance of the policy. Having budgeted for the flair Sanders has, how are we to account for the fact that his “free stuff” platform is not . . . um, examined very closely.

I would want to argue that his campaign throws into a very high relief the failure of the government school system. Sanders pitches his speeches high — he speaks at a 10th grade level. Trump, by way of contrast, speaks at a 4th grade level. The temptation is to look at a fact like that and sneer at all the poor trumpkins (I put that in the lower case as to not besmear the name of the valiant dwarf.)

But the real scandal is at the other end. You speak as to educated people and you still talk like that? It reminds of the joke about the father who said this about his son: “I taught him everything I know, and he’s still stupid!”

There are only two things that need to be grasped about the piracy that is socialism. The first is that the government can give nothing to anyone that it has not first taken from someone else. If they dump a bucket into your part of the pool, they filled it up somewhere else. The second thing is that all who advocate “more water for the middle class” either understand what is being said or not. If they don’t understand it, then they are economic fools — regardless of having a 10th grade education that enables them to track with a Sanders speech. And if they do understand it, and are in it for the pillage opportunities, then they have opted for a future of mendacious corruption. But why go anywhere down the road for that? You already have Clinton.

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wisdumb
wisdumb
8 years ago

TBD?
The Bloomberg Disaster?

Duells Quimby
Duells Quimby
8 years ago
Reply to  wisdumb

Good one, but I can’t see Bloomberg coming in as a (D). I thought it might be To Be Determined, since Biden has carefully sat down on the bench keeping his powder dry. And why not, since your running against Bernie?

"A" dad
"A" dad
8 years ago

Who would have thought that a plan to make Joe Biden look smart would work out?????

ashv
ashv
8 years ago
Reply to  "A" dad
"A" dad
"A" dad
8 years ago
Reply to  ashv

Yeah, that light blue tie was pretty bad.
In other words, how could you curse me with a lifetime mental image like that?????

Bro. Steve
Bro. Steve
8 years ago

This is Bro. Steve’s completely anecdotal thesis: Socialism appeals best to people who have never worked anywhere in the production economy. If your entire life consists of talking on the phone, attending meetings, and writing e-mail, then it’s far easier to believe that wealth just is. Consequently, poverty is explainable by government inaction to properly distribute stuff. So Hillary’s and Bernie’s constituency, based on my pro-tech anecdotal sampling, is heavily weighted with people who think the ultimate source of milk is a carton, and electric power comes from a socket in the wall. (I plug in, and it works. See?)

"A" dad
"A" dad
8 years ago
Reply to  Bro. Steve

Greedy milk cartons!
Most of them are part of
the 1 or 2%. !

RFB
RFB
8 years ago
Reply to  Bro. Steve

Socialism is nothing more than communism in the slow lane.

The only people who believe in it are the polezniye duraki, only and ever realizing that the free cheese is stamped “paid” when the last sound they hear is the click of the mousetrap.

Sanders and Clinton are like two pickpockets fighting over a stolen wallet, with their gullible audience cheering them on in the hope of sharing in the booty. Which is where they will feel the pain first.

jillybean
jillybean
8 years ago
Reply to  RFB

And young people who have yet to receive their first paycheck. The moment my daughter eyed all those deductions, she changed her tune.

Christopher Casey
Christopher Casey
8 years ago

“I taught him everything I know, and he’s still stupid!”

Or in the words of Abbot and Costello
“Didn’t you go to school, stupid”
“Yes, I came out the same way”

Brad Littlejohn
8 years ago

Thankfully the economy is not like a single stagnant pool, no good for anything but taking an occasional recreational dip in, but a dynamic and richly productive flow of goods and services, like the water cycle. There are rivers and pools and oceans and wells, and even if the total amount of money in the system remains the same, you can still achieve a lot of good by, say, taking water out of stagnant unproductive well in the middle of nowhere (in this parable, that might be surplus capital stashed in a foreign tax haven) and irrigating it into a… Read more »

RFB
RFB
8 years ago

“…by being reallocated…”

Reallocation is only and ultimately accomplished at gunpoint, and those that have historically pointed that gun to “reallocate” are unafraid to use it. When someone says “No, do not take that which is mine”, and they are immune to the syrupy sentimentality of marxist theory lite, the “reallocators” invariably descend to the compulsory power of government, which by the example of Uncle Jughashvili, left upwards of 58 million having their breath reallocated.

Robbers perform robbery. Like that auto insurance company, that’s what they do.

Brad Littlejohn
8 years ago
Reply to  RFB

Note that you have shifted the question. Pr. Wilson was contesting the usefulness/effectiveness of the reallocation, claiming that it could not possibly achieve anything because the economy is a single zero-sum stagnant pool. It is to that empirically-falsifiable claim that I objected. Now you are protesting the justice of the reallocation—even if it did lots of good, it shouldn’t be done, because it’s at gunpoint, and gunpoint is bad. Different discussion. In any case, it’s funny how those countries who’ve most thoroughly undertaken the kind of reallocation Bernie has in mind don’t even have any guns—not even their policemen. And… Read more »

RFB
RFB
8 years ago

Aside from the nonexistence of perpetual motion machines, even as economic models, I want to address some of your ideas: 1. Gunpoint (violence) is an inert substance that is odorless and colorless. It is provided an attribute of good or evil by the context of its use. 2. Robbery is robbery. You strained the gnat by overly concentrating upon the implement in use. A very common definition of robbery (as opposed to more simple theft such as shoplifting) is “by force, or FEAR of force”. It is enough for the majority to fear in macro scale what is accomplished on… Read more »

Brad Littlejohn
8 years ago
Reply to  RFB

On 3—sorry, I meant to be explicit that I had in mind Denmark and Sweden, as Bernie does. Radically different governments than the USSR. On 2., I reiterate the point that in these countries, the vast majority of citizens pay their high taxes not from fear of force but because they think it’s a good idea. On 4., obviously I overstate slightly in saying they have no guns, but it is true that policemen do not carry guns in most European countries. Again, this is not to endorse their policies or Bernie’s emulation of them, simply to demand that we… Read more »

ashv
ashv
8 years ago

Denmark and Sweden have radically different populations from the US. (Though not radically different from Bernie supporters.)

RFB
RFB
8 years ago
Reply to  ashv

Given the Muslim takeover that is expanding exponentially, Sweden will soon cease to exist except in name only. The Swede’s are experiencing first hand the answer to the question “how does someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods?”

It is even easier when there is no strong man in the house.

"A" dad
"A" dad
8 years ago
Reply to  RFB

It’s almost like the wheels fell off their canoe!????

RFB
RFB
8 years ago
Reply to  "A" dad

and when its all said and done, the only pancakes left will be Halāl.

Evan
Evan
8 years ago
Reply to  RFB

That won’t be so bad as long as Kale isn’t halal.

"A" dad
"A" dad
8 years ago
Reply to  Evan

See previous inside joke, a few posts back.

St. Lee
8 years ago

“…but just to read the Bible once through…”

Okay, I think I see the problem. You really should consider reading it through a second time.

RFB
RFB
8 years ago
Reply to  St. Lee

And just as a thought experiment regarding “…being reallocated from less productive to more productive…”

How about we do just that, and cherry-pick scripture, and proportion all the wealth to those who have demonstrated the most productivity: “I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away.”

I do not think that the sentimental communist sympathizers would feel warm and fuzzy about that.

Denscribble
Denscribble
8 years ago

Interesting. Can you give other examples of unproductive sources? Are there promises that only these unproductive sources will be tapped for reallocation? If people are paying higher taxes in Denmark and Sweden does that mean that they are the unproductive sources you’re talking about or are they paying higher taxes to ensure only the correct sources are tapped to be reallocated to the correct areas?

RFB
RFB
8 years ago
Reply to  Denscribble

And speaking of “unproductive sources”: One of his first jobs was registering people for food stamps, and it was all downhill from there. Sanders took his first bride to live in a maple sugar shack with a dirt floor, and she soon left him. Penniless, he went on unemployment. Then he had a child out of wedlock. Desperate, he tried carpentry but could barely sink a nail. “He was a [lousy] carpenter,” “His carpentry was not going to support him, and didn’t.” Then he tried his hand freelancing for leftist rags, writing about “masturbation and rape” and other crudities for… Read more »

Christopher Casey
Christopher Casey
8 years ago

“Thankfully, though, one doesn’t have to do many years of research, but just to read the Bible once through, to learn that whatever robbery is, taxation by lawful governments is not it.”

Lawful taxation by lawful governmemts is not theft. We are at or approaching the point where the lawful government is comiting robbery by unlawful taxation.

RFB
RFB
8 years ago

“the vast majority of citizens pay their high taxes not from fear of force but because they think it’s a good idea…” Well, if they think its such a good idea, then why don’t they “pay their high taxes when the rule of law is not present? After all, it does not take a law to allow people to contribute as much as they want to government. You are perfectly free to do so. Don’t use the compulsory force of government to take what is rightfully mine, and then pretend that it was my “free will contribution because its a… Read more »

Christopher Casey
Christopher Casey
8 years ago

“I reiterate the point that in these countries, the vast majority of citizens pay their high taxes not from fear of force but because they think it’s a good idea”

Or becsuse it’s the way they’ve always done things.

andrewlohr
andrewlohr
8 years ago

Are you sure their tax evasion is lower, or compliance higher, than ours? I vaguely recall reading somewhere years ago that (some?) European governments envy the rate at which US taxpayers fill out forms and pay up.

RFB
RFB
8 years ago
Reply to  andrewlohr

And, the public safety slow-motion disaster that is overtaking Scandinavian countries is a result of their failure to place government’s prime responsibility as the priority. That failure is a direct consequence of sentimental notions of the evil that men do.

katecho
katecho
8 years ago
Reply to  andrewlohr

Clearly Littlejohn wasn’t referring to Greece, where tax evasion is a freestyle Olympic event. Evasion is practiced by the disgruntled little guy all the way up to the protected business and government classes. The black market (off book) economy represents as much as 25% of the Greek GDP. None of that gets taxed.

andrewlohr
andrewlohr
8 years ago

Does God have a preference? We sinners didn’t tax righteousness away from the 1%er Jesus to us broke folks; He voluntarily gave it. So Calvary, at or near the heart of the gospel, antithesizes the welfare state; it exemplifies true, sacrificial generosity rather than the totally bogus ‘generosity’ of giving away other people’s goods. Does God prefer a small political government to a fat one, without insisting (i.e. it’s not our duty to shoot up the local IRS office)? Tolerate slavery but prefer freedom if available?

Steve H
Steve H
8 years ago

Denmark, Sweden, Norway… These are examples of economies with almost nothing in common with the diversity of America. Mono cultures with deep natural resources enough to pay the socialist excesses in the present. Dwindling birth rates and lack of formidable militaries will eventually lead these countries to be taken over by the Muslim hordes.

RFB
RFB
8 years ago
Reply to  Steve H

They are calling it “The Rape of Europa”

http://www.wsieci.pl/aktualne-wydanie-sieci.html

Ellen
Ellen
8 years ago

“Does the example of Sweden prove the wisdom of an extensive welfare state? Before deciding, read the following:”

https://www.libertyclassroom.com/sweden/

or listen to:

http://tomwoods.com/podcast/ep-17-is-sweden-a-good-model/

Brad Littlejohn
8 years ago

Of possible use for those so inclined: http://swordandploughshare.com/main-blog/2012/7/7/obamacare-in-perspective.html
Or, for those with just 24 seconds to spare: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWrG6l-5CAg

For the rest, y’all have fun now, ya hear?

Andrew Kelly
Andrew Kelly
8 years ago

You’re right in saying that resources often need to be reallocated in order to achieve peak productivity. But this optimal reallocation can only happen in a free market with all the attendant free market signals that show resource owners where they should be investing. It doesn’t work when the government forces it.

Wesley Sims
Wesley Sims
8 years ago
Reply to  Andrew Kelly

As someone who has worked on gubment construction projects, I can tell you, the government ,at the federal level, has no idea how “peak productivity” is achieved.

“[P]eak productivity” is most always achieved at the most local level.

[Edit] To be clear, I said that because I agree with you, Andrew. I realize that my comment may have come across as disagreeing with someone with whom I actually agree.

ashv
ashv
8 years ago

The return on investment for college tuition is wildly variable and nobody’s proposing to measure it. There’s just as much evidence that firing all teachers and professors and using the funds to bulldoze all schools and universities would improve the economy. (I know which one I’d find more satisfying.)

mehbit
mehbit
8 years ago

>Wealth can actually be generated by being reallocated from less productive to more productive uses If they’re more productive, why do they need someone else’s money given to them? Shouldn’t they be producing more if it themselves? And who is supposed to make up for the money that is reallocated? Surely not the people you stole from in the first place? >economics is not a zero sum game Ah, that’s the key. Bernie likes to tell everyone the rich are immoral for being rich and aren’t doing their fair share. But they haven’t stolen my piece of the pie. Every… Read more »

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago
Reply to  mehbit

Leeroy.

LOL

andrewlohr
andrewlohr
8 years ago

Yeah, reallocate some from the stagnant bureaucracy to us workers who pay for it.

Ben
Ben
8 years ago

Keeping that money out of circulation drives up the price of the money that is in circulation, in other words enabling you to buy relatively more with that money.

Brad Littlejohn
8 years ago
Reply to  Ben

Yeah, that’s called deflation, which is pretty much an economic death sentence. Once again, this is all Economics 101, which Bernie’s 10th-grade listeners have apparently been fortunate enough to take.

Ben
Ben
8 years ago

How does the price of gold increasing equal economic death? (I say gold because that is real money, not paper currency). That seems like a pretty grandiose assertion.

Capndweeb
Capndweeb
8 years ago

Ahhh, but Wilson does not consider it a zero-sum game in this pool, as shown by today’s post: “You put 17 Republicans into the pool that the nominee will eventually have to swim in, and urge them all — since most of them will only be in the pool for a short time — to pee in it now.” The fatal flaw is that the water level does not rise–as all the liquid added has emanated from the ballast already thrown in.

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago

“I taught him everything I know, and he’s still stupid!”

Speaking of which, Doug, please tell me you’re no relation to Toby Sumpter, whose book you’re promoting at the top of this site.

Please.

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago
Reply to  Douglas Wilson

Ideally, you would just take that blurb down. It’s trying to be hip and edgy, but it’s really just retarded.

"A" dad
"A" dad
8 years ago

Ruh-Roh! What if we are all in the body of Christ? Then JFN would be related to fort Sumpter, retarded or not. By the same token, we might also be related to people with autism!????????????

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago

Wow. As bad as the blurb is, the description of the book on the Canon Press page is even more ridiculous.

Is it any wonder fewer and fewer people take Christianity seriously?

http://canonpress.com/blood-bought-world/

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago
Reply to  Douglas Wilson

http://www.canonwired.com/ask-doug/sumpter-becoming-pastor/

Hmmm. You’re not related, but you did train him. I had no idea when I wrote my original comment. But that blurb is really lame. You should be embarrassed to have it on your page. He sounds like a youth pastor who’s always going on about what a rad and bitchin’ savior Jesus is.

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago

We need a major reformation. We need lots of clean-cut, church-going folks to meet Jesus in a dark alley and have Him rough them up. – Toby J. Sumpter, Blood Bought World Does he talk the same way from the pulpit? You people think you’re soooo spiritual, don’t you? Well, think again. You know what some of of you goody-two shoes out there need? You need to get jumped by Jesus Christ in a dark alley and have him work you over real good. Try explaining that to your kids when you get home, you whited sepulchers: “Well, kids, your… Read more »

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago

Hip and edgy? Or just retarded?

jillybean
jillybean
8 years ago

Please tell me these are not direct quotes.

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago
Reply to  jillybean

The top one is. It’s the blurb at the top of the home page in the ad for his book.

The bottom one isn’t. I was just illustrating the complete absurdity of his metaphor. The Savior of the world, the Creator of the universe, behaving like some thug – jumping people in alleys, smashing men’s and women’s faces in…all because Toby doesn’t think they’re “authentic” enough or something.

katie
katie
8 years ago
Reply to  jillybean

Direct quotes from Mr. Norris, at any rate, from his Uncharitable and Humorless file.

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago
Reply to  katie

Uh-huh. Because a minister of the Gospel imagining Jesus beating the crap out of men and women after jumping them in a dark alley is displaying charity and humor, not ill will and sacrilege.

katie
katie
8 years ago

David understood the metaphor I think, when he said “Make me hear joy and gladness, that the bones You have broken may rejoice.”

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago
Reply to  katie

Hmm…I was aware that Jesus had jumped Moses and tried to kill him, but I don’t recall Jesus jumping David.

katie
katie
8 years ago

It’s in Psalm 51.

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago
Reply to  katie

No, it isn’t. That’s a prayer of repentance on David’s part for committing murder and adultery. There’s nothing in there about Jesus physically attacking David.

katie
katie
8 years ago

Just so. No one said anything about “physically,” except for you. It’s a metaphor. David said his God (who is the Lord Jesus) broke his bones (roughed him up, if you will). This brought him to repentance, because He’s just that good.

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago
Reply to  katie

Of course, David had committed murder, and Nathan had condemned him for it. Today’s preachers? Not so much. Today, preachers generally tell murderers that it wasn’t their fault, hit man they hired to kill their baby is to blame. And really, when you think about it, it was their boyfriend’s or husband’s fault; he’s really to blame, not her, because women aren’t responsible for their actions. Of course, in many cases the murderer is black, and so you can’t blame her boyfriend or husband because 99 times out of a hundred, he’s black, too, and just like women, black males… Read more »

katie
katie
8 years ago

I really have no idea what you’re saying. If it is that modern preachers have no need of the kind of severe mercy God showed David, I disagree.

Christopher Casey
Christopher Casey
8 years ago

“Today, preachers generally tell murderers that it wasn’t their fault, hit man they hired to kill their baby is to blame. And really, when you think about it, it was their boyfriend’s or husband’s fault; he’s really to blame, not her, because women aren’t responsible for their actions.”

What preachers are you listening to?

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago

Lots of evangelical preachers talk like this. If you’re not aware of it, it’s not because it’s uncommon. “Every abortion has two victims – the baby and the mother.” I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard clergymen or seminarians say that. And it’s easy enough to verify for yourself – check any book on the history of abortion in America. Women have almost never been prosecuted for hiring someone to kill their baby, and pro-life (sic) leaders have always stressed that when they call for abortion to be outlawed they do not want the murderous mother charged with… Read more »

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago

John Piper quotes approvingly a guy who says blacks are being “targeted” for abortion, and that black abortion is “genocide.”

Not a whole lot of moral agency for the black mothers who kill their babies. They’ve been “targeted” and are victims of “genocide.”

http://www.desiringgod.org/messages/when-is-abortion-racism

Look around, and you’ll find lots more well known preachers who preach the same garbage.

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago

John Piper: “O that the murderous effect of abortion in the Black and Latino communities, destroying tens of thousands at the hands of white abortionists Black and brown children who are murdered in the womb aren’t murdered by their mothers and abortionists of various races, but only by “white abortionists.” By the way, abortionists are far more likely to be Jewish than they are to be “white”, so Piper is just flat out lying. Like most preachers, he really hates white people (other than himself and his friends), and will rarely miss an opportunity to slander them. Jewish doctors are… Read more »

jillybean
jillybean
8 years ago

Jews aren’t white? Who knew?

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago
Reply to  jillybean

Don’t be willfully ignorant, jilly. It doesn’t become you. Are you really not aware that Jews see themselves as separate and distinct from “whites”? If not, next time you’re around the Jewish relatives you often speak of, start talking about how the Nazis killed six million white people. Let me know how that goes over. Who knew? Jews talk about themselves not being white all the time. They write about it, too. A lot. http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/ashkenazi-jews-are-not-white-response-to-haaretz-article/ https://stuffjewishyoungadultslike.wordpress.com/2008/07/28/42-denying-that-they-are-white/ Who knew? Antonin Scalia knew. He and the rest of SCOTUS ruled unanimously in a synagogue’s favor when the synagogue claimed that Jews aren’t… Read more »

jillybean
jillybean
8 years ago

Before I respond, I wonder if you could cite that case.

"A" dad
"A" dad
8 years ago
Reply to  jillybean

I can cite the case Jilly!
JFN is a bit of a nut case.????

He can however, benefit from any grace and good humor you might offer him, though he might not understand the gift at first!????

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago
Reply to  jillybean
JohnM
JohnM
8 years ago

“The Jewish people most certainly suffered such discrimination and so were not barred from their claim simply because both they, like the defendants, were Caucasian.”

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago
Reply to  JohnM

I know! That’s what I was telling jilly – Jews aren’t Jews. Hitler killed six million white people. Let’s stop dividing holocaust victims by race, when it doesn’t even exist!

Christopher Casey
Christopher Casey
8 years ago

Were there no anti-semitism laws?

JohnM
JohnM
8 years ago

Then “By the way, abortionists are far more likely to be Jewish than they are to be “white”,” really means abortionists are more likely to be white than they are to be white? Lets stop dividing abortionists by race, when it doesn’t even exist.

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago
Reply to  JohnM

Jesus, take the hickory stick…

Barnabas
Barnabas
8 years ago
Reply to  JohnM

You should pop over to Desiring God and take it up with John Piper. “O that the murderous effect of abortion in the Black and Latino communities, destroying tens of thousands at the hands of white abortionists.”

Christopher Casey
Christopher Casey
8 years ago

“Like most preachers, he really hates white people (other than himself and his friends), and will rarely miss an opportunity to slander them.”

Bwahahahahahaha.

Christopher Casey
Christopher Casey
8 years ago

“Show me some preachers who say A) abortion is murder and B) women who get abortions should be charged with murder.”

The question is what should the penalty for murder be?

Wesley Sims
Wesley Sims
8 years ago

What does Scripture prescribe?

I may not agree with Estes Kefauver’s/J. Frank Norris’ bull-in-the-china-shop approach to conversation, but on the point of being consistent with the logic of abortion being murder, he’s right, and you’re regular pro-life evangelical doesn’t follow through but stop so they aren’t considered “hateful” or “mean”.

Christopher Casey
Christopher Casey
8 years ago
Reply to  Wesley Sims

“What does Scripture prescribe?”

In leviticus 20 there’s the death penalty for sacrificing children to molek. I don’t think enforcing that in the U.S. would be wise.

Wesley Sims
Wesley Sims
8 years ago

Well, to be fair, you didn’t ask about the penalty for child sacrifice to Molek — you asked about the penalty for murder. Let’s don’t change the subject. I’m not here advocating for the death penalty for idol worship but for consistency when we say “abortion is murder.” If enforcing the death penalty for murder is unwise in the US… well… we currently DO use the death penalty for murder, so if someone has an issue with the suggestion that abortion be punishable by death, let’s stop calling abortion “murder.” I don’t think we have a different choice. Either murder… Read more »

Christopher Casey
Christopher Casey
8 years ago
Reply to  Wesley Sims

“Well, to be fair, you didn’t ask about the penalty for child sacrifice to Molek — you asked about the penalty for murder. Let’s don’t change the subject.”

That was the closest thing I thought of to a prescribed punishment for parents killing their children.

I agree that consistancy is important, the problem is dealing with an inconsistant culture.

Wesley Sims
Wesley Sims
8 years ago

I get that, but I think the closest analog in Scripture to baby murder is just murder itself–if abortion is in fact murder.

“I agree that consistancy is important, the problem is dealing with an inconsistant culture.”

I understand that, too, but I think it’s a temptation to sin rather than a tactic for success. We soften our language, but to the point that we’re inconsistent in our language and we end up softening our position.

katecho
katecho
8 years ago
Reply to  Wesley Sims

Sentencing for cases of abortion is an important part of the debate, and we need to understand a key principle. This type of crime is somewhat unique in that we have had several decades where the murder of the unborn has been culturally sanctioned (and profited upon) by the same office of civic authority that will need to prosecute it as murder, if abortion is ever overturned. As such, there is innocent blood on the hands of the civic magistrate. Is the civil magistrate who chops up civically innocent babies on Monday still qualified to turn and use the same… Read more »

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago

No, that’s a separate question.

But historically and currently, as I understand it, the rule is that if you hire someone to commit murder, you’re guilty to the same degree they are.

So if an abortionists commits first degree murder, then the woman who hired him to kill her baby commits first degree murder.

Christopher Casey
Christopher Casey
8 years ago

And the penalty for first degree murder is related. In texas you’d get the death penalty so should all women who get abortions in texas be executed?

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago

Women who have been deceived into wrong choices and children who were never given any choice at all are the victims of pro-choice America. – Pastor Clenard Howard Childress, Jr.

http://www.blackgenocide.org/home.html

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago
Reply to  katie

That’s nothing like what the Tobester is talking about. Where’s the dark alley?

Jesus didn’t appear as Trayvon Martin to David.

Steve H
Steve H
8 years ago

I wasn’t aware of this book, but after your description I really want to read it, sounds good!

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago
Reply to  Steve H

I’m sure you’ll find it delightful.

Of course, it’s PC to the hilt, and perverts clear biblical teachings to tickle those itching ears.

But hey, that’s how you sell books!

Dunsworth
Dunsworth
8 years ago

Oh, you’ve read it, then?

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago
Reply to  Dunsworth

I don’t need to read a book to know perverts clear biblical teachings when its own publisher’s webpage about the book spells out that it perverts clear biblical teachings.

katie
katie
8 years ago

“I don’t need to read a book” – there’s the money quote!

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago
Reply to  katie

LOL

That’s even more pathetic than Dunsworth.

Dunsworth
Dunsworth
8 years ago
Reply to  jillybean

They’re not. He’s a mocker and a liar.

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago
Reply to  Dunsworth

I haven’t lied about anything.

You’re simply lying about me.

And mocker? Uh, yeah. I’m going to mock goofy stuff, whether a preacher or a pervert said it.

You know, kind of like what Doug Wilson does? If you hate mockery, why are you a fan of his?

Dunsworth
Dunsworth
8 years ago

You made up a quote in order to deceive others about the content of a book that contains no such quotes.

I guess you call that “Christmas decorating” or something, because it’s clearly not lying.

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago
Reply to  Dunsworth

I didn’t make up a “quote”. I asked:

Does he talk the same way from the pulpit?

Aren’t you running late for your hysterectomy?

Dunsworth
Dunsworth
8 years ago

You might check out 1 Timothy 5:2, Mister Scriptural Faithfulness Expert.

Evan
Evan
8 years ago
Reply to  Dunsworth

Is it just me or is JFN the reincarnation of Rev. Shazbot, who was the reincarnation Gregory McDivitt? His insulting tone is extremely familiar.

"A" dad
"A" dad
8 years ago

You know JFN, when the prudent consider their own individual hystery, and how they came to be, they are disinclined to make disrespectful comments re: hysterectomies.

While Lady Dunsworth needs no one to speak for her, you should have realized the following about her, she is a wise woman, and thus a respect magnet.

If you are not drawn to respect her,
that lack of respect says the most about your lack of mettle,
not to mention, common sense.

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago
Reply to  "A" dad

I wouldn’t say I respect her, exactly.

But, on the other hand, I have had zero impure thoughts about her.

Zero.

Shouldn’t that count for something?

So cut me some slack.

jillybean
jillybean
8 years ago

You are nasty about her because she had the temerity to disagree with you.

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago
Reply to  jillybean

It’s not because she’s a hysterical harridan who calls people liars without any foundation whatsoever, accuses me of just looking for any reason to mock Doug Wilson at every opportunity, which isn’t even remotely close to being true, and lots of other stuff.

No; it’s just because she had the temerity to disagree with me.

Thanks for sharing, jilly.

(BTW, you and I have often disagreed, but I’m not “nasty” to you. So how does your theory explain that?)

"A" dad
"A" dad
8 years ago

JFN, God does have some poor angel writing down this entire pathetic conversation. I am not God.

But as a human, I can always ask, would it kill you to appologise?
One for Lady Dunsworth and one for Jilly would do nicely! ; – )

It’s a good way to add mettle!

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago
Reply to  "A" dad

Exactly what am I to apologize for?

Pointing out that Dunsworth is constantly lying about me, while accusing me of lying?

No, I’m not going to apologize for that.

I’ve said nothing to or about either Dunsworth or Jilly that remotely merits an apology.

I treat people the way they treat me.

I have no problem with jilly. She treats me with respect, and I treat her with respect.

Dunsworth treats me with contempt, and I give it right back. But I do it better, and I have a penis, so I’m supposed to apologize?

The hell with that.

"A" dad
"A" dad
8 years ago

Wow, and you’re not even thinking with even that. : – (

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago
Reply to  "A" dad

Ouch.

RFB
RFB
8 years ago

Mr. Norris, Without attempting to speak to any of the merits of your argument(s), you are generating the effect of not be able to discern what you are trying to say. Your signal-to-noise ratio is such that you are increasingly unreadable. Imagine trying to have an intelligent conversation with someone with extreme halitosis coupled with very poor personal hygiene. One might really be interested in the subject matter, but the game is not worth the candle. Two more things. 1. It is unseemly, regardless of perceived grievances or how perturbed one might be, to interface with ladies as we do… Read more »

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago
Reply to  RFB

Imagine trying to have an intelligent conversation with someone with extreme halitosis coupled with very poor personal hygiene. You leave my personal life out of this, mister! 2. This is not our “house”. It is discourteous to the site owner to engage others with a bellicose manner. If you have a penis, apparently. But if you’re a female, it’s fine? Nice. Men sharpen men like iron. Women are not treated in that fashion even when their elbows are sharp; men take it on the chin. Nah, I’m not a male feminist. If some hairy legged bull-calvinist is going to constantly… Read more »

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago
Reply to  RFB

Also…Mr. Norris?

Please.

Mr. Norris is my father.

Call me Steve.

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago
Reply to  RFB

Just to let you know – you’re not going to see me on here for several days.

But don’t think I’ve changed my mind, or I’m feeling guilty. I haven’t, and I’m not.

I’ll be taking care of business. A friend of mine from college just got accepted into Covenant Theological Seminary next fall, and he’s asked me to drive him to Tijuana for the required sex change operation.

TCB

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago
Reply to  "A" dad

You want mettle? Here ya go. I hope it’s not too heavy for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ9pYwCKopE

Christopher Casey
Christopher Casey
8 years ago

Is that the best you can do?
https://youtu.be/HpwUTJsI3xI

Chad W
Chad W
8 years ago

Wait a second…THE J. Frank Norris?!! I think the more pertinent questions concern your family tree!

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago
Reply to  Chad W

Wait a second…THE J. Frank Norris?!!

Yes. I, being dead, yet speaketh.

Christopher Casey
Christopher Casey
8 years ago

adblock plus is your friend.

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago

I have it. It doesn’t block those ads.

Dunsworth
Dunsworth
8 years ago

These aren’t third-party ads, they’re banner images native to the site that happen to be ads. So Adblock Plus doesn’t do it.

Not being on a personal crusade to mock everything Wilson at every possible turn, and minding one’s own business, would do the trick, though.

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago
Reply to  Dunsworth

Who’s on here to “mock everything Wilson at every possible turn”? Certainly not me. In fact, on several occasions I’ve stated my agreements with Pastor Wilson on particular topics. And I’ve haven’t come close to mocking him often, let alone “at every possible turn.” Get a freakin’ grip, lady. I have brought repeatedly, without “mocking”, that Pastor Wilson supports a man for President who has promised to consider granting a full pardon to one of the worst traitors in American history. No matter how anyone tries to spin it, this is quite remarkable. I often remark on things that are… Read more »

Dunsworth
Dunsworth
8 years ago

That’s a really bizarre way to change the subject when I was clearly referring to what you WERE mocking.

J. Frank Norris
J. Frank Norris
8 years ago
Reply to  Dunsworth

That’s a really bizarre way to change the subject when I was clearly referring to what you WERE mocking. Do you even read what you write? Or are you so consumed by your hatred of me that you just start hysterically pounding your keys in some sort of voodoo trance? Refuting your latest in a long serious of outrageous lies about me is not “changing the subject.” This is the hysterical nonsense you had spouted that I was referring to. Not being on a personal crusade to mock everything Wilson at every possible turn I was answering your absurd slander.… Read more »

Ellen
Ellen
8 years ago
Reply to  Dunsworth

I have Adblock Plus, and it says it is blocking 9 ads at the moment. All I get at the top of the home page is ‘Papa Don’t Pope’ and a great big blank space. Have to scroll down to get to the latest post. That’s a lot of advertising, if that’s what the blank space represents.

Ben
Ben
8 years ago

Doug, the military/security/prison-rape complex cherished by your politicians of choice is actually more socialistic and economically devastating than the evil welfare state.

I encourage you, a somewhat out-of-the-matrix kind of guy, to embrace free enterprise and reject the neocon wing of the Progressive Ruling Intellectual Class in the same way that you push back against the beta-male white-knight apologizers in the Evangelical Intelligentsia.

"A" dad
"A" dad
8 years ago
Reply to  Ben

“the military/security/prison-rape complex cherished by your politicians of choice…”

Ben, you and yours are as pure as the driven snow no doubt!

RFB
RFB
8 years ago
Reply to  "A" dad

Its a hemp thing, you wouldn’t understand. ????

"A" dad
"A" dad
8 years ago
Reply to  RFB

Ok, pure as the wafting fog! ; – )

RFB
RFB
8 years ago
Reply to  "A" dad

Hey man, Bong Lives Matter!

ME
ME
8 years ago

I live in the midst of the Bernie-dines.To call them stupid is an insult to stupid people everywhere. I don’t know what to call it, brainwashing, indoctrination, lust for a bad romance and a one night stand? Actually that’s how I feel about Trump too, everybody wants their bad boy and no one really cares whether or not he’s up for the job, or if he even has a job. I suppose on the bright side, this is all a good lesson in why we look up, rather then putting our hope in mere men…. or in about to be… Read more »

jesuguru
jesuguru
8 years ago
Reply to  ME

Fear not, if Sanders is elected we’re all guaranteed unlimited rations of your favorite “meat”.

David Mullin
David Mullin
8 years ago

There was a trailer for a popular TV show a few years ago where the son {let’s pretend he stands for the citizens of the USA} bewails to his father, “why do bad things keep happening to me?” The Father {let’s pretend it’s Doug] responds, “Bad things keep happening to you because you’re a dumbass.” Our nation is like Israel in the OT, beaten up but not having learned from the beating.

RFB
RFB
8 years ago
Reply to  David Mullin

A saying I remember: “Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.”

Dan Glover
Dan Glover
8 years ago

In a country (Canada) that regularly takes from the “have” provinces and redistributes to the “have not” provinces, as well as taxing higher income families up to 50% just on income tax (never mind all the additional point-of-purchase or process or royalty fee taxation), I have never seen the government do anything to stimulate the economy better than the private sector would have if the money had remained with them. And if their money was safe from gov’t redistribution schemes, none of the wealthy would have it stashed in off-shore havens. They’d be reinvesting it in a private sector-friendly market… Read more »

ashv
ashv
8 years ago

The other element present here is that we’re on the tail end of a college bubble. So, many young people are in a situation where their parents and teachers told them that going to college would be worth it (since the previous generation was on the front side of the bubble and got most of the benefit from it) — and now they have big student loans and poor job prospects. So don’t necessarily think of it as voting for a “future of mendacious corruption”; consider it in terms of people who feel like they did everything they were supposed… Read more »

RFB
RFB
8 years ago
Reply to  ashv

“…people who feel like they did everything they were supposed to…”

Can they at least complain with their man voice? I remember a senior NCO telling subordinates something along the lines of “you can be a well-trained, squared away troop, and do everything you are supposed to do, and “it” can still happen to you…any one of you, so don’t be surprised when it does.”

Life includes pain. Anyone telling you different is either lying to you, or lying to you and selling something.

ashv
ashv
8 years ago
Reply to  RFB

No, they can’t, because they were raised to believe in democracy.

RFB
RFB
8 years ago
Reply to  ashv

Most people are born with two arms and two legs. Some end up with fewer by their mid-20’s and still pick themselves up and keep moving. The mindset of thinking that “got screwed by the system” sounds like they need someone to call them a wahmbulance.

ashv
ashv
8 years ago
Reply to  RFB

They’re the future of America. (Which I feel pretty good about, when I think about it that way.)

jillybean
jillybean
8 years ago
Reply to  RFB

We have totally lost sight of that. Catholics used to be taught that life on earth was a vale of tears, where pain and suffering came along with appalling regularity to strengthen your character and, above all, make you turn to God. You were not supposed to look for happiness here because this was not your final home. I think we (and I include myself in this) failed our children when we stopped teaching this.