The Content Cluster Muster (12.27.18)

It’s an interesting moral calculus. Makes me wonder even more about the moral calculus of someone who claims that Nelson Mandela was a “thug” and a “bad man” who should have been executed so that he never would have had a chance to rise to power.

For it to be a red herring, I’d have to actually be engaging in an argument. I’m not engaging in the argument about whether or not sneak attacks are justified at all – I’m using the fact that Pastor Wilson obviously feels such attacks are justifiable to make an entirely different point.

A red herring is only a logical fallacy if it’s being used as a red herring, otherwise it’s simply a change of topic.

As I’ve repeatedly stated that I firmly disagree with any use of violence by Nelson Mandela, this is a lie, and I demand an apology. What I have pointed out is the hypocrisy in Pastor Wilson claiming that Nelson Mandela’s use of violence in response to extreme oppression and massacres was unjustified, while he has repeatedly justified the use of violence by Confederates and American revolutionaries, and even stated that high taxes could be a valid excuse for rebellion. Pastor Wilson said that Nelson Mandela was a thug and a bad man, and linked to an article that suggested he… Read more »

For someone who has shown himself nearly incapable of accurately representing Wilson, I’m still not sure in what sense Jonathan argues that Mandela was not a “thug”, judicially worthy of a death sentence for his publicly acknowledged involvement in vigilante violence and murder. Mandela was the one who created the active terrorist branch, Spear of the Nation, within the previously passive resistance movement, ANC. Mandela joined a nonviolent resistance movement against a government that was engaged in massive, crippling oppression of the Black population. He was repeatedly arrested and jailed for these nonviolent actions. The government responded with even greater… Read more »

Where did Nelson Mandela sign off on the murder of many innocent people? Describe the specific action of violence and exactly how Mandela signed off on it. And if you pick something that happened years after he got tossed into solitary confinement, I’m going to have to assume that you aren’t taking the conversation seriously. Also, you can throw in how Mandela’s actions were more thuggish than, say, those committed by the Revolutionaries in the 1770s or by the Confederates in the 1860s or even by the power structures of the Segregated South in the 1960s. Do you personally believe… Read more »

Thank you again FP, for showing exactly who you are. That was just about the most obvious use of fake outrage and pretend offense that I’ve ever seen used in order to justify failing to back up an obviously false claim. I’ll quote again, “Operating through a cell structure, MK planned to carry out acts of sabotage that would exert maximum pressure on the government with minimum casualties; they sought to bomb military installations, power plants, telephone lines, and transport links at night, when civilians were not present. Mandela stated that they chose sabotage because it was the least harmful… Read more »

You know damn well Mandela was a communist thug and a murderer. You might as well ask Where did Stalin, Mao, or Pol Pot sign off on the murder of many innocent people…. There is no moral equivalence between Nelson Mandela and Americans fighting in the War of Independence, or the Civil War. I should also add, comparing Nelson Mandela to Stalin/Mao/Pol Pot is completely nonsensical, huge masses were massacred under their leadership, while when Mandela was operating the masses who were getting massacred were being killed by the government forces who were OPPOSING him. Of course, comparing Confederate leadership… Read more »

Jane, I’m afraid some people are constitutionally incapable of taking anything with a grain of salt, and your point about tone and likely intent is going to be lost on them. Sometimes they respond by trying to change the subject.

Could you describe what the actual tone and likely intent of posting it was?

Would it be in line with suggesting that Washington was a thug and a bad man who really should have been executed for his rebellion and violent actions?

Jane already did, and that answers your second question too.

soylentg, I’m a bit confused as to where you’re putting me into the argument. I don’t “approve” of the meme. Like Jane, I saw it as basically celebrating violent sneak attack killing in a lighthearted way, and Pastor Wilson’s posting of it as sort of approval meant to add levity to the blog. I wanted to contrast how Pastor Wilson sees those sorts of violent sneak attacks as something that can be celebrated by levity, while calling Nelson Mandela a “thug” and a “bad man” for sabotaging government facilities while his people were suffering massacres. Other posters have made clear… Read more »