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Open Road That Must Be Near Where I Live
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A Wilson Christmas Playlist
Here’s our Spotify Christmas playlist for you to enjoy this season. Cheers!
Robo-Backflips
From the People Who Are Guarding Us Against Sexual Predators
And so here is some more fresh madness . . . click.
Robot looks like CG to me.
Thought of Thursday’s links when a friend sent me this.
https://youtu.be/IxvMkSKRWOA
This on Romans 9 from a Calvinist! Don’t have many objections myself.
Thoughts from other Calvinists. Or the Dougman himself.
The post on Romans 9 fails for at least 3 reasons: 1. Paul began the section heart broken over the lack of salvation for individuals in Israel, not the lack of them being chosen for special nation status. His concern is obviously individual salvation. 2. Paul’s arguments in favor of God dealing this way concern not only nations (Israel and Edom) but individuals (Jacob and Esau in Rebekah’s womb, Pharaoh). Paul is demonstrating that God has elected individuals in the past as support for him doing it in the present; incidentally, even if Paul’s supporting example only did concern national… Read more »
Thanks Dave. A couple of comments. 1. Paragraphs. 2. You say that both individuals and nations are implied by the use of individuals in the womb and as then as nations but Paul refers to both situations in the same sentence (or next one). Paul is saying that the two individuals shared Rebekah’s womb and then he immediately quotes Malachi which is clearly corporate. And Paul links God’s promise to Rebekah with the quote in Malachi. Is not Paul telling us how to understand Jacob and Esau here? 3. You haven’t dealt with Alastair’s claim about the potter referencing Jeremiah… Read more »
Sorry about lack of paragraphs :) 2. I might be misunderstanding you here; what I’m saying is that Paul begins with the question as to how Jesus can be Messiah if most of Israel rejected him, to which he answers that being descended from Israel does not make you “Israel” (in the sense of being within the Promise); what does make you “Israel” is divine election. Once Paul has made this point he has successfully avoided the presumed charge, but it remains for him to substantiate his point and he does so with OT examples. Now I suggest that from… Read more »
Thanks Dave, I think what you are identifying is where much of the debate is. The corporatists think the distinction is hugely important. Specifically that the Jews were using corporate election (wrongly) to justify individual election.
For me (but I was more interested in thoughts about how fellow Calvinists saw Roberts here), I see Romans predominantly about Gentiles are to be included in the kingdom; a more detailed explanation of Ephesians.
Bethyada,
I don’t think Steven is sidestepping it. He is saying it is both/and. The scriptures deal with people in corporate ways and our modern western individualism can make it hard for us to work in those categories.
Steven isn’t saying Alistair isn’t a Calvinist (or reformed) but he is contrasting his position with (in his opinion) the historic majority Calvinist position.
I have finally recently ditched Calvinism. It’s ironic that Rom 9 to 11, recently re-read minus presuppositions (to the extent you can achieve this) led me to conclude that Calvinism doesn’t make sense. I’ve stopped using it as a grid to make certain passages ‘fit’. Heb 6 is another. It has been a liberating experience. The greatest irony of all is that dogmatic adherence to the doctrines of grace actually led me to lose the experience of grace. God became distant and unapproachable. I have left behind an obsession with correct doctrine I see all too often in reformed circles.… Read more »
Hi Ken, I suggest it is obvious to everyone involved, regardless of presuppositions, that Romans 9 is a sampling of hard predestinarianism; one exmaple here would be CS Lewis (most certainly not a Calvinist, especially during his early Christian life) reading Romans for the first time and remarking that there were in it “some things horrible.” Now what things do you suppose he had in mind? Romans 9 requires no system to arrive at divine determinism; it requires a pre-existing system to read it and avoid divine determinism. I agree that something about Calvinist theology is spiritually perilous; I noticed… Read more »
Thanks for an interesting reply, Dave. I’ve not started to become an ‘attacker’ of Calvinism. Nor for that matter, have I rejected predestination. You can’t, because it is in the bible! If I have a ‘problem’ with Cavlinism, it is more in the question of human responsibility or accountability over against hard predeterminism, not an attempt to defend free will. Obviously, the NT itself must determine our doctrine, but something that has been pushing me away from Calvinism for some time now has been the MacArthur stable – e.g. Team Pyro when it was running. Was a blessing at first,… Read more »
Ken,
Good points. I think it’s true that the theology can contribute to that harshness; since I believe the theology is basically right, I have to assume this harshness is the result of something wrong in our handling, but I can’t say I have the answer; it’s a problem I also deal with.
I thought Wedgeworth’s response to a question about Alastair’s doctrine of election was good. I can’t seem to get the link to a single question to work so I will reprint it all here (apologies): ” wedgetweets I think Alastair is just doing his super smart and creative biblical theology thing. He’s emphasizing the term/concept “election” as such. It’s a doctrine that the Bible uses to describe a corporate group. It is meant to give assurance and hold out responsibility. I agree with that. But I’ve been finding “predestination” all over the Bible– bc it’s all over the Bible. Even… Read more »
You mentioned your 12 bar blues playlist in an interview you gave. Can we have that?
Talking of music, has the Jenny Geddes Band covered Georgia Satellites’, Keep you hands to yourself?
Is Logos Dads Band close enough? https://dougwils.com/s15-soaring-to-artistic-heights/keep-your-hands-to-yourself.html
Thanks, I couldn’t find it on YouTube (including CanonPress channel where it isn’t), perhaps I should’ve searched on Mablog.
I suggest you add The Christmas Stories by Ross King, and not just because I played on it. I think you’d like the song “Rise Up” a lot.
Is “food insecurity” the next politically correct phrase to both push a liberal agenda and obfuscate?
Actually it’s been around for a while and I think it’s actually a useful term. It’s more precise than any term I think we would want to substitute for it. Hunger? Well, that’s something that happens to most people right before lunch. Poverty? Well, sure, but that’s less specific. Would you suggest a different one that I might be blanking on, that addresses the issue of people not having enough to eat and avoids the pitfalls of obfuscation and liberal associations? Really, it just sounds to me like a pithy way of saying “Don’t know where the next meal is… Read more »
Thanks @Jane, I know it has been around sometime, though others may be familiar with the term for a longer duration than me. I like words like starvation, and famine, and malnourished, and deprivation. Fat people don’t have a problem with lack of food. I find the term “food insecurity” applied to them to be a leftish way to say, “I want to call more people starving than who truly are and justify my statist nannying but I can’t say starving because these people are clearly fat.” I then I read some idiot referring to the situation in Yemen as… Read more »
Okay, deprivation might be a good one. The objection to starvation and malnourished is that they only come to play pas the point where it would be useful to already be helping people. If your neighbor is consistently short on food, despite his appropriate efforts to provide it for himself, you’ll want to help him out in some way before he’s actually “starving” or his kids actually become “malnourished.” Famine is a description of a mass condition, not a particular person’s need. I see your point about how it could be a useful way to expand responsibility for people who… Read more »
Curious, though, is there a context on this page for that question? Or did you just think this was a good place to drop it (which is not a bad thought)?
There are things that I like to talk to people on this board about and, even more so, would like to have Doug’s opinion on. Cluster Muster seems apropos.
So, the latter, and yes, that seems entirely reasonable to me! :-)
As someone from across the Pond, I could despair over the Telegraph report that pseudo “girls” will be given free access to genuine girls in the British guiding movement. The insanity is mind-boggling. In the mid 70’s, Dick Lucas of St Helen’s Bishopsgate in the heart of London preached a series of sermons called The Ruin of Man and Society based on Romans 1, and said this: ‘When a society turns away from the knowledge of God – and we have had that knowledge for centuries – then God will hand man and his society over to moral decay and… Read more »
Ken B: Our Founder’s (over here in the Colonies) may not have all been strong Christian’s, but they understood that a society without Christian religion (i.e “the knowledge of God”) meant anything goes (I’m paraphrasing). Prayer was used for many important decisions to seek the right way forward…imagine if that was done today, it’d likely garner lawsuits and “the sky is falling” Chicken Little’s screeching. We are seeing the result of what you cite and the concerns of those founding members where a society has forgotten it’s roots and is running open loop.
It’s not Christmas around our house until Amy Grant has crooned “It’s the Most Wonderful…”
Thanks for the Christmas music! I love Amy Grant Christmas songs… so nostalgic.
I found an article that I think Jonathan and I would agree on against (predominantly) conservatives. There is Nothing Patriotic or Conservative About Our Bloated Defense Budget.
I don’t oppose a military but, really, shouldn’t the US stop trying to police the entire world?
Not Jonathan, but yes, the US should stop trying to police the entire world, and conservatives have been saying so for some time. That’s something you and me agree on against (predominately) progressives .
“shouldn’t the US stop trying to police the entire world?”
Not to open up a can of worms…I agree, we shouldn’t police the world but think this is a strawman at its premise. Looking at it as: a strong America and a strong military create a more stable world, which isn’t policing per se but more of a bulwark other countries can rely.
Not to open up a can of worms
***Gets out the can opener***
Hehe…yeah. Altho I purposely left out the “but” to ease into my point.