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Stott vs. Lloyd-Jones
Here’s an interesting take on a controversy between John Stott and Martin Lloyd-Jones. Worth digging into.
Just a Sucker for Open Road Photos
Here’s two in one shot . . .
For Riddle Lovers
For All the Font Nazi’s
As Seen on the Internet
Very clever to put that “NAZI’S” in that headline for the apostrophe Nazis.
“I will never date another apostrophe. The last was too possessive.”
Valerie, have you ever spent time on Yagoda’s Not One-Off Britishisms site? I discovered it last night and couldn’t stop reading. The hours flashed by, and my tired old eyes finally watered and begged for mercy.
He monitors the slow seepage of British diction/grammar/spelling into American usage, especially the usage of “toff” trendsetters, and I am pleased to say that he is generally against it. You guys didn’t win the Revolutionary war in order to use words like “bespoke”!
“Here’s an interesting take on a controversy between John Stott and Martin Lloyd-Jones. Worth digging into.” Oh, the dividends of Compromise! Look how much we’ve gained by trampling down God’s Word! We’ve still got influence at the highest levels of academia. And our moral and theological concessions have worked to solidify the bonds of our great nation. If that prig Lloyd-Jones would have won out, he “would have left us a radical marginal and insignificant group.” Luke 12:32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom. Man, this is a disgusting article.… Read more »
Hi Kevin, I’m glad I’m not the only one who read it that way! I admit I’m partial to Lloyd-Jones because I’m half-way through his Romans Sermons on https://www.mljtrust.org/. Only 175 more to go!
A question for Pastor Wilson, is the CREC an outcropping of Lloyd-Jones’ approach? I don’t see much history on the CREC website, but I’d like to learn. Be Blessed!
At least you have an opinion!
On a scale between purity on the right side, and love/forgiveness on the left side, you seem to fall way to the right. So, here are some questions that I ask myself:
How pure were we when God gave us new life?
How pure were His disciples?
Does God have the ability to eradicate evil at any time He chooses?
Have I ever found a ‘pure enough’ church for you?
What is the point of the parable of the wheat and tares?
Yeah I have to admit it is more complicated than saying you are either for purity or for unity. Our continuous efforts at polarizing side taking doesn’t allow for the nuance of such weighty matters. It is like the couple that continuously church hops because they are waiting to find the perfect church, it doesn’t happen.
To which we might add, “How pure does he call us to be?”
Complete purity is certainly impossible in this life (see “wheat and tares”), but that’s not the same as saying, “Hey! Let’s not bother with the weedkiller this year!”
Yes, we are called to do two seemingly opposite (?) things at once: be ye perfect, and bear with one another. The question then, is which usually takes priority.
On a personal level, love, forgiveness, and bearing with each other definitely has the lead, but consider the Church as a whole: purity or broad tent? Which is it called to, and which honors God and His Kingdom? And then, next, consider the purity of individual leaders.
Hey wisdumb — I don’t think they’re opposites at all. We are “perfect” when we “bear with one another”. I also don’t think that “purity” and “love/forgiveness” are on opposite ends of the spectrum, as you suggested in your previous post. On the contrary, the purer we are, the holier we are, the more we will love, the more we will readily hold out forgiveness. But here’s the thing. Forgiveness clearly cannot mean that we have the right to call someone a follower of Jesus who seems to have no intention of obeying him. And (to get back on topic)… Read more »
You are right, TT! – on the personal level, but within the church as a body, and specifically within the leadership, how much doctrinal variation should we put up with? Should we be narrow and pure, or should there be a wide range of ‘permissible”?
We are to reflect the Triune God who displays unity and diversity simultaneously! It’ beyond me…
Well, we currently have a “wide range of permissible” in the Anglican denomination – and the fruit of that policy over recent decades surely speaks for itself. Declining attendances. Increasing ungodliness.
The congregations which are thriving are those where Scripture is loved and heeded.
This is pretty random, but has anyone seen this report? https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/02/doomsday-preacher-wimbledon-train-station-passengers-flee. A man reading the OT on a London subway caused people to panic and break out of the train, going so far as to be standing on live track. From witness accounts, he was not doing anything erratic–other than to read the Bible out loud. It made me think of the Hispanic lady who used to travel regularly on my bus route. She yelled the Gospel of Saint John in Spanish at the top of her lungs. Every day, and for the entire duration of her bus ride. Far… Read more »
That story put me in mind of a scene from Huxley’s Brave New World when the Savage decides to interfere with the distribution of soma to the menial staff at the Dying Hospital: “Stop!” called the Savage in a loud and ringing voice. “Stop!” He pushed his way to the table; the Deltas stared at him with astonishment. “Ford!” said the Deputy Sub-Bursar, below his breath. “It’s the Savage.” He felt scared. “Listen, I beg of you,” cried the Savage earnestly. “Lend me your ears …” He had never spoken in public before, and found it very difficult to express… Read more »
John, there is a 9 AM at St. Cyprian, which is closest to the airport.
4714 Clark Ave
Long Beach, California 90808
Phone: (562) 421-9487
I don’t know anything about it because Long Beach is far from me, but the reviews were good!
Thanks, Jill! If I make it there, I’ll let you know how it went.
I may even take a peek at the Cathedral in the afternoon if the traffic allows.
My favorite part of the Cathedral is the statue of the Blessed Virgin over the main entrance. It is really worth seeing.
People who were more used to plaster statues of the traditional type didn’t like it, but I found it wonderful from the beginning. Some complained that the Virgin looks like a west-side personal trainer–to which I thought, what a nice image!
Didn’t make it to St. Cyprian’s – or to the Cathedral. Maybe next time I’m down this way.
I do appreciate the artistry of the statue – though my tastes lean much more heavily toward the Baroque than the Modern.
Ordinarily mine do as well. I love Bernini’s Ecstasy of St. Teresa. But for some reason I loved this one. I think it attracts me because, while most statues focus on Mary’s compassion, this one focuses on her strength. Sometimes I need reminders to be strong!
I am a realist: the glass is half empty or half full depending on it’s state prior. Is it in the process of being filled up or drunk?
Aren’t you a chemist, Bethyada? Then you should know that the glass is full. Half air, half water.
I have degrees in science but I am not a chemist. Demo is I think.
I have enough of the arts to recognise incomplete sentences. The glass is half full of water.
I don’t know if Alistair is correct or not. But one of the problems with his argument is that he is arguing about what is compared to what he fears may have been. Yet we don’t know what may have been.
We can’t like papyrus because everyone likes it and we have to be unique.
But I don’t care. It is a good well designed font.
These Alastair blogulations = from a year ago.
What brought you over to that this Thursday, Doug?
Secondly — is this an early hint of a movum Anglicanum?
This Evangelicalism Divided sandbags us. How many “staunchly evangelicals” hold that children of Satan can & must gain a mental grasp of propositions laid out in the Bible, before the Spirit will imbue faith? If liberalism is characterized by endorsing a faith separate from authoritative, revealed Bible, “evangelicals” equally err by requiring a faith dependent on pagan man hearing, understanding & accepting Bible truths, thereby making themselves ready for conversion. Billy Graham preached this. So do most Protestants. It’s part of our Confessions! As a Calvary Chapel preacher once concluded: “Salvation, then, is really up to you! Weren’t no deciding… Read more »
I prefer the Christian version, “my cup runneth over.”
The glass is half full.
Of toxic waste.
I found the riddles rather tedious myself… especially the last. Given the supposed “solution”, then I wasn’t even asked a riddle.
I love riddles but those were too much work!
Alastair Roberts is a careful thinker and worthwhile writer, but he’s very wrong in what he says about Lloyd Jones vs. Stott.
Readers interested in another perspective on the matter should go here: http://baylyblog.com/blog/2008/05/one-more-run-mill-denominational-train-wreck?icn=rel-posts
I would be interested in reading what Doug thinks in a separate blog post. Perhaps Doug is already working on that?
“Readers interested in another perspective ….” Thanks for this link! “(I)n this dialog (Essentials) Dr Stott held to the new inclusiveness. Those who deny the virgin birth and the bodily resurrection of Christ, he affirmed, do not ‘forfeit the right to be called Christians'” (Murray, p. 119, Essentials, p. 228). “Christian” ministers like Stott cannot be excoriated enough. He sold the Faith down the river for the price of “intellectual respectability.” Such men the church cannot abide. Deny the resurrection and the virgin birth as essential to Christian confession? What? What???? Just hand the keys to the Temple over to… Read more »
The lust for intellectual respectability
This is a big problem.
I don’t mean trying to have high demands for one’s work. But the drive for this can be disastrous. And some intellectual work by unbelievers is just high sounding intellectually coated sheep dags. There are times when we should not care.
I think that we must be vigilant to avoid this lust in ourselves, but reluctant to attribute it to others. It is always possible that people have arrived at their conclusions sincerely and based solely on the promptings of reason and conscience.
From time to time it has been suggested to me that my acceptance of deep time and common descent has such a basis. I find that a bit amusing in that anyone who accepts all the teachings of the Catholic church has already forfeited any claim to intellectual respectability!