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Malachi
9 years ago
Thinking about it for my senior…
Bryan Hangartner
9 years ago
Even technical degrees from state universities will be worthless if this nurturing of childish hypersensitivity continues for much longer.
Spike Pittard
9 years ago
Free exchange of ideas? Could a student, for example, believe that homosexuality is not a sin and be able to exchange that idea freely? Could a student, for example, question the inerrancy of Scripture? Could a student freely exchange a theory of universalism? Of course not, because the faculty most certainly holds doctrinal positions that would not allow accepting other ideas. There is nothing wrong with having a liberal arts reformed Christian school. But don’t pretend it is more “free” than secular schools. It is only more free to be the kind of school that it wants to be. No… Read more »
About 15 years. Are you arguing that things have changed drastically since then? When I was in college there was very little shouting. Lots of great discussions and diversity and a powerful free exchange of ideas. Thankfully, all religions were welcome, including my own. I enjoyed it.
I am saying you are seriously out of touch. It’s not the same everywhere, thank God!, and it sounds like you went to a nice school but the left has been shouting down its opponents at least since ’87. That’s the year I attended a lecture by one of the leaders of the Nicaraguan Contras at Harvard. I wasn’t a student there–I had just graduated from a fine non-ideological state school in the South. The way those guys treated the speaker was a lot like what you see in DW’s new film, except worse. Once the booing and hissing died… Read more »
Ah, I see. As in “completely liberated”. When the student handbook requires students to withdraw from school if they find themselves drawn to a wide list of what have been deemed as heresies over the years, that hardly seems free. A school that only allows its student to hold established “truths” is hardly freed.
True to a degree, we all need bookends, we all need targets if we want to accomplish anything. However, I am sure I can have a more civil and deep conversation about any issue at NSA, than you typical university.
Well, we’re in to anecdotal evidence and assumptions here. I’ll feel free to disagree with you, though I have no more evidence than you do. It just seems like a paradox that a school that bans heresy from the start and thoroughly vets its candidates based on beliefs, can possibly be as open to ideas as a secular school. While it’s true that certain beliefs may be attacked more vehemently on secular campuses, I’m not sure that proves that deep and civil conversations are not possible.
I would have to agree this is a fairly anecdotal exchange. Neutrality and pure freedom are myths, so good and agreed definitions are the only place to start.
What I would possibly defend as true would be less ad hom attacks and clearer and more civil presentations of arguments. Those at NSA are probably going to be less fearful, cuz they are less ignorant, which leads to greater civility. Less freak out.
And now we’re in to assumptions. Is there any evidence to suggest that students that attend NSA are less ignorant than those that attend other institutions? I’d love to see how you’d measures this.
Sure, I am assuming this from my own personal interactions with NSA students. I knew far far less while attending a state college, than my NSA buddies. And we all know how smart I am…
Free to and free of both aid or repress happiness. Discovering the balance is the key. The argument here would be scripture gives us the proper tincture
The spiteful self in me wants to let things go as they are for another 10-15 years, just so I can see the looks on the faces of today’s college students when the cultural morass has progressed so far that their children are reporting them to the government for fitting whatever definition of “bigot” is in vogue then.
While I have no criticism of the fine people of New St Andrews and the good work they’re doing, I think it’s probably time that all universities and colleges closed their doors for a few years so that academia, as a whole, can sit in the corner for a while and think about what they’ve done.
I would second this except for two things: 1) I believe their “thinking” is the origin of much of today’s lunacy and therefore wouldn’t want to encourage any more. 2) I think a spank is better than a timeout.
Apart from repentance, academia (generally) is due for quite a spanking from above.
Well, yes, when I’m not making jokes on the internet I do think that a major step to a society becoming healthy is to exile or otherwise rid itself of all university faculty.
University of St Andrews (the one in Scotland) launches The Logos Institute. The Logos Institute, which takes its name from the Greek meaning ‘word’ or ‘study’ but which is also used in John’s Gospel with reference to the incarnation, will be a centre for excellence in the study of analytic and exegetical theology. The range of questions it will consider concern the existence and nature of God, God’s relationship to time, the nature of the person and the conceptual and social challenges confronting religious belief. The latter will include interdisciplinary analysis of the challenges of religious hostility, sectarianism and, indeed,… Read more »
Thinking about it for my senior…
Even technical degrees from state universities will be worthless if this nurturing of childish hypersensitivity continues for much longer.
Free exchange of ideas? Could a student, for example, believe that homosexuality is not a sin and be able to exchange that idea freely? Could a student, for example, question the inerrancy of Scripture? Could a student freely exchange a theory of universalism? Of course not, because the faculty most certainly holds doctrinal positions that would not allow accepting other ideas. There is nothing wrong with having a liberal arts reformed Christian school. But don’t pretend it is more “free” than secular schools. It is only more free to be the kind of school that it wants to be. No… Read more »
Hah! Who is more likely to shout down opponents? Who is more likely to give them a courteous hearing?
I don’t know. Who?
It’s been a while since you graduated, hasn’t it?
About 15 years. Are you arguing that things have changed drastically since then? When I was in college there was very little shouting. Lots of great discussions and diversity and a powerful free exchange of ideas. Thankfully, all religions were welcome, including my own. I enjoyed it.
I am saying you are seriously out of touch. It’s not the same everywhere, thank God!, and it sounds like you went to a nice school but the left has been shouting down its opponents at least since ’87. That’s the year I attended a lecture by one of the leaders of the Nicaraguan Contras at Harvard. I wasn’t a student there–I had just graduated from a fine non-ideological state school in the South. The way those guys treated the speaker was a lot like what you see in DW’s new film, except worse. Once the booing and hissing died… Read more »
Are you arguing that things have changed drastically since then?
Yes.
And your evidence for this?
“Freed” not Freer
Ah, I see. As in “completely liberated”. When the student handbook requires students to withdraw from school if they find themselves drawn to a wide list of what have been deemed as heresies over the years, that hardly seems free. A school that only allows its student to hold established “truths” is hardly freed.
True to a degree, we all need bookends, we all need targets if we want to accomplish anything. However, I am sure I can have a more civil and deep conversation about any issue at NSA, than you typical university.
Well, we’re in to anecdotal evidence and assumptions here. I’ll feel free to disagree with you, though I have no more evidence than you do. It just seems like a paradox that a school that bans heresy from the start and thoroughly vets its candidates based on beliefs, can possibly be as open to ideas as a secular school. While it’s true that certain beliefs may be attacked more vehemently on secular campuses, I’m not sure that proves that deep and civil conversations are not possible.
I would have to agree this is a fairly anecdotal exchange. Neutrality and pure freedom are myths, so good and agreed definitions are the only place to start.
What I would possibly defend as true would be less ad hom attacks and clearer and more civil presentations of arguments. Those at NSA are probably going to be less fearful, cuz they are less ignorant, which leads to greater civility. Less freak out.
And now we’re in to assumptions. Is there any evidence to suggest that students that attend NSA are less ignorant than those that attend other institutions? I’d love to see how you’d measures this.
Sure, I am assuming this from my own personal interactions with NSA students. I knew far far less while attending a state college, than my NSA buddies. And we all know how smart I am…
Free to and free of both aid or repress happiness. Discovering the balance is the key. The argument here would be scripture gives us the proper tincture
The spiteful self in me wants to let things go as they are for another 10-15 years, just so I can see the looks on the faces of today’s college students when the cultural morass has progressed so far that their children are reporting them to the government for fitting whatever definition of “bigot” is in vogue then.
This might be interesting: http://www.yaf.org/shapiro-mizzou.aspx
Maybe Doug could give him some pointers.
While I have no criticism of the fine people of New St Andrews and the good work they’re doing, I think it’s probably time that all universities and colleges closed their doors for a few years so that academia, as a whole, can sit in the corner for a while and think about what they’ve done.
I would second this except for two things: 1) I believe their “thinking” is the origin of much of today’s lunacy and therefore wouldn’t want to encourage any more. 2) I think a spank is better than a timeout.
Apart from repentance, academia (generally) is due for quite a spanking from above.
Well, yes, when I’m not making jokes on the internet I do think that a major step to a society becoming healthy is to exile or otherwise rid itself of all university faculty.
That’s a good joke!
University of St Andrews (the one in Scotland) launches The Logos Institute. The Logos Institute, which takes its name from the Greek meaning ‘word’ or ‘study’ but which is also used in John’s Gospel with reference to the incarnation, will be a centre for excellence in the study of analytic and exegetical theology. The range of questions it will consider concern the existence and nature of God, God’s relationship to time, the nature of the person and the conceptual and social challenges confronting religious belief. The latter will include interdisciplinary analysis of the challenges of religious hostility, sectarianism and, indeed,… Read more »