Contents
True Worship
In Rev. 2:26–27, Christians are said to rule nations with a rod of iron, Psalm 2-style. If preterism is true (big “if”!! haha), what kind of ruling with an iron rod and how much smashing potters’ vessels is permitted and/or required of Christians in power? This seems very contrary to the popular TGC take of “Christians must divest themselves of all worldly power”—but also seems to imply that fierce, godly rule is explicitly commanded by God in this life (or at least, commanded to those who “keepeth My works unto the end”).
Thanks!Michael
Michael, my understanding is that Christ is the one who wields the iron rod (through His providence), and we wield it together with Him by engaging in true, righteous worship of Him. Jesus is the one who judged Jerusalem so fiercely in 70 A.D. but it was the faith of worshiping Christians that was one of His central instruments. If you have faith, He said, you will command this mountain (the one they were standing on) to be cast into the sea, and it will happen.
That Time of Year
Not a question, but a comment about the times. It just hit me that we are in October! Which means No Quarter November starts in less than a month!!!
Oh, and I’ve been hearing something about an election next month. Sounds like a big deal too.Nathan
Nathan, yes. The pot doth boil.
Hamas and Hezbollah
I came across a David Bahnsen tweet about Israel and Gaza, etc. I simply do not understand the Christian fascination with a secular God-hating state bombing the daylights out of another God-hating pseudostate. The bizarre rah-rah! chest-thumping here seems tactically foolish—Bahnsen’s distaste for Christian Nationalism and affection for Jewish Nationalism might be the worst thing one could do if one was actually concerned about young men in churches becoming too antisemitic.
Is it a “Christian duty” to love the modern state of Israel (evil and God-hating as it is, and was even before Oct 7, 2023) to the point of cheer-leading its wartime bombing efforts? I don’t want to drive wedges further into an already-fractured Christian right, but some people do not appear to be making it easy :(Michael
Michael, the answers are complicated, and I hope to be writing about all of this more in the near future. In the meantime, I would start with this. There is no understanding of the conflict over there until this is grasped.
Faith and Childrearing
My wife and I have very much enjoyed the books in your family series. We are working through Future Men but have most recently finished Standing on the Promises.
In Standing on the Promises, you discuss how the importance of “belief in God’s promises” cannot be overstated as an essential ingredient in the stew of a child’s salvation.
I am the third of 5 siblings (all boys), and all of my brothers profess faith in Christ except for the oldest one. He has never professed faith, not even at a young age. This actually gives us hope that my oldest brother could one day turn to Christ, rather than if he had professed faith and “fallen away.”
I would argue that my parents excelled in the “duties of parents” that you laid out in your book. We were all diligently homeschooled by my mom, my parents were not hypocrites in the way they lived and expected us to act, we were all taught the word of God and had a very present father who treated our mom with love. With all that said, my parents prayed believing that God “could” save us, but they did not pray believing that God “would” save us.
My question is this: Let’s say my parents picked up your book now and agreed with every word, agreeing that they should have recognized and believed God’s promises when they were raising my oldest brother. Would you still instruct my parents to pray now, believing that God “will save” my oldest brother? Or since he is grown and out of the house, has the time to pray that way come and gone?John
John, I would encourage them to begin praying earnestly for his return. Just last Sunday I heard of just such a case.
Failure to Launch
Have recently listened through your book “The Neglected Qualification” and have encountered a situation and would like to know your thoughts. Say an elder’s oldest child in his 20s is staying at home, struggles with working/keeping a job, and most importantly doesn’t ever come to church with his parents. It’s very weird because he isn’t involved in the public, is mostly at home, the elder and his wife for the most part talk negatively about him and everybody in the church doesn’t bat an eye. The elder acknowledges they’ve failed with him in a generalized way, he’s “failed to launch.” So I’m wondering, by the child’s continued absence and avoidance of the covenant community, has this child been informally excommunicated/considered an outsider because no one in the church recognizes him as part of the community, or is he a straying child that needs discipline? What should the church do about this elder? Should he step down? How should the church go about this?CO
CO, at a minimum, an elder in this position should discuss with the other elders whether or not he should step down. And unless there are other salient facts that I don’t know (e.g. they adopted him when he was six, and he was born with fetal alcohol syndrome), it seems that he should step down.
Ye Ol’ Head Coverings
Good morning Doug! So as often happens, a fellow brother and myself got into a lively debate around head coverings. I hold to your position that the covering is the woman’s hair and my fellow brother is on the fence leaning towards artificial coverings are required. He brought up several points that I have heard from many people who advocate for head coverings and was wondering if I could get your take on them, plus one textual observation of 1 Cor 11. Head covering advocates often cite the fact that feminists wanted to burn their coverings in opposition to male headship as proof that we should wear them. This doesn’t sit well me as it is trying to establish a church principle from a “owning the libs’ type framework. And while the feminist’s reaction was sinful, could it be that they were reacting to an extra-biblical requirement for head coverings?
Stemming from this, they tend to claim that head coverings were universal in the church up until two seconds ago. Was it that universal? I know it was in Calvin’s church because he feared that doing away with head coverings would lead to women showing their breasts in public (maybe he wasn’t that far off . . .) But was it practiced from the very beginning of the church period? As a denomination that bucks the historical trend with paedocommunion it amuses me to hear other like-minded brothers appeal to the near-universal practice of the church to support a position . . .
Finally, it seems from Paul’s argument that he is basing it off of creational order (11:7-12) so whatever position is taken, it must hold from the very beginning of creation. If head coverings were absolutely required, is there any strength to noticing that they are entirely absent from Exodus-Deuteronomy as a requirement for worshiping the Lord?
Thanks Pastor Wilson!Andrew
Andrew, I think your points are well taken. Owning the libs is not a strong enough basis for doing something like this. And looking to the Old Testament is also informative. As for universal practice, that is not quite true.
Hearing from God
How would you say you “hear from God”? I’ve been in circles ranging from Southern Baptists to Charismatics, so the takes and methods obviously vary. But some men that I respect dearly have talked about setting aside time to sit quietly and listen for God.
I will continue the conversation with them if I have the chance, but I wanted to get your opinion. My prayer time is usually a one way “conversation” (me thanking God, sharing my requests, etc.) and I’d say God “speaks to me” primarily through reading Scripture.
I have a strong aversion to saying “God told me . . .” or “God said” if I am not 100% certain that what I’m saying is accurate (honestly, it’d probably have to be straight from Scripture or I’d have to hear God audibly say something for me to ever feel comfortable using a phrase like that), but if I am missing out on hearing from God due to my ignorance or busyness then I definitely would like to know and change.
Additionally, if your answer to the above inquiry didn’t already address this, how would you explain John 10:27?
Thank you for your time,Justin
Justin, I believe we hear from God by reading and submitting to the Scriptures. His sheep do hear His voice, and they hear it in Scripture. That said, it is lawful to acknowledge “promptings,” and take action if the path is otherwise lawful. But I would never say that God “told me” to go do something.
Johnny Cash Bio
In light of somewhat recent events involving a finger bone I was wondering if you had a recommendation on a Johnny Cash biography. Thanks.Brock
Brock, I am afraid I do not know. People? Recommendations?
After the Eschaton
Thank you for all the content you publish. I have been richly blessed and helped by much of it . . . In postmillennialism, what exactly happens after Christ returns? Is the physical earth ended? Will all the nations who have been successfully discipled end as well?
Premillennialists often have the mindset that changing the world is futile because it’s all gonna burn up anyway, but doesn’t the postmillennialist have the same problem if the current world ends.
Thanks!Lee
Lee, the current world is destroyed and raised. The whole created order enters into the eternal state. What that is like specifically, we do not know, and could not comprehend if we were told. But it will be glory upon glory. “For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us” (Romans 8:18). “Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is” (1 John 3:2).
A Christian Law School
To the father looking at law schools: Check out Oak Brook College of Law—it’s small but unapologetically Christian, and in my experience was more rigorous than a traditional law school. It’s not for everyone but, given the situation you describe, it might be worth a look.Clay
Clay, thank you.
Compromised Work
In the April 4, 2023 mailbag, you responded to a question I wrote (see “Defense Work?”) and fielded a similar question from a writer named Jackson shortly thereafter (see May 2, 2023 letters). The gist of both questions was “is it lawful to serve in national defense (by joining the military or being a contractor),” to which your answer was yes, “but you will need to be ready to wreck your career every day.”
I took the job I was considering at the time, and while the day-to-day work itself is honest, I can’t kick the feeling of having sold out. While others struggle in a rapidly deteriorating economy, I’ve made it into a social class where stability and financial security reign (along with the possibility of a quite healthy salary sooner rather than later), thanks to our thieving politicians. Is there help for my conscience, or should I get out?Douglas
Douglas, I would get out if you want to, but I don’t think you should lurch. Sure, consider other options. But the main thing is to continue to keep your willingness to wreck your career front and center.
God Found Fault With the People
So the quote “The Old Covenant is not the time in which God attempted to save His people through law, but, finding this to be a failure, decided to use grace and forgiveness in the New Covenant . . . the contrast in the New Testament is not between Old and New; the contrast is between Old distorted and Old fulfilled.” The Old Covenant was not a failure, it was a necessity to point us to our need of a Redeemer and the perfect sacrifice. The only failure was humanity and our nature.Tony
Tony, exactly so.
Nogginnose and Penny Plain
I’m a CREC minister’s wife in Arkansas, and we attend church with the folks behind the small but mighty Nogginose Press (Collin Houseal and his daughter, Rivers).
I noticed you reviewed Penny Plain on your blog today, and I wanted to share that Nogginose recently published a BEAUTIFUL hardcover edition of it, the only one currently in print (to my knowledge—I have been searching high and low for it for years).
Their edition is under Anna Masterton Buchan, so it may be difficult to link to O. Douglas as it gains traction in the book world.
Is there any way you could link to Nogginose’s copy in your post? I think it would get this precious book into more hands, especially since they will have a booth at Fight, Laugh, Feast!
Thank you for considering my request.Brianna
Brianna, happy to link to it here.
Re: Penny Plain (Book of the Month/October 2024)
Wouldn’t it be neat if a small, family-owned publisher within the CREC sphere had recently republished Penny Plain in a lovely hardcover edition, under the author’s given name (Anna Masterton Buchan)? Oh hey, look!
Also available on Amazon:Collin
Collin, thanks much.
Sports and Physical Limits
I am in agreement with you about the value of a young man’s participation in sports given that it is in its proper place on the priorities list. I have a genetic brittle bone disorder. It is a mild form so I have lived a normal blessed life, but because of this I did not play any contact sport in high school or college. I could have played, I’m able to run and jump and lift weights without danger, but in the case of football, a broken bone a game would be likely. I can see now what I missed out on as I get older, and the lessons of teamwork, determination, and a drive to do something difficult were not taught through other means. I am now learning the lessons the hard way. All that being said, I have two children, a girl and a boy who both inherited my disorder. My wife and I see how my coddling as a child has negatively affected me and have committed to actively encouraging our children to do everything a normal child would do, even if we cringe inwardly every time they jump off the couch. However, I am undecided about contact sports. Is it worth the risk? If it isn’t, does anything come to mind that could be a sufficient substitute? I can see how the added danger they would face would maybe even enhance the lesson and teach real courage, but unlike most kids, it would be a real danger. Any thought would be much appreciated. Thanks!Nick
Nick, what I would encourage you to do is seek out alternatives (cross country? swimming?). There is plenty of grit and discipline out there to be had.
Melting With a Fervent Heat
I have two questions from 2 Peter. (1) As a Calvinist, how do you explain 2 Pet 3:13? (I search your blog, couldn’t find any notes on this.) And (2) If the church is the New Jerusalem that came down at Pentecost which ushered in the Christian aeon, what is Peter talking about? Why is he still looking for the new heavens and new earth?
Thanks,Peter
Peter, when moderns think of “elements,” we think of the periodic table. But the Greek word is stoichea and had religious import. Paul was concerned that the Galatians and Colossians not be ensnared by these elements (Gal. 4:9; Col. 2:8,20). Jude refers to this passage from Peter, and says that it describes people then living, that his readers had had to deal with. So I believe Peter is referring to the disintegration of the old Judaic aeon, and the ushering in of the new Christian aeon.
Trump in the Semi-finals
I’m not sure if you caught it, but the debate over whether it’s a sin to vote for Trump between William Wolfe and David Reece on Crosspolitic was extremely interesting.
To be frank, I found Wolfe’s argument to be completely lackluster. I know that you’re planning on voting for Trump. I would very much like to do so, but I am convinced that he does not meet the requirements as set forth in Exodus 18:21—specifically Trump is not trustworthy, and he’s not a God-fearer.
Could you explain why you believe that Donald Trump does, in fact, meet the qualifications as set forth in the Word of God?
Many and exuberant thanks.John
John, I didn’t vote for Trump in 2016, precisely because I didn’t trust him. But then he kept his promise on judges, and was far more trustworthy in action than many ostensible trustworthy Republicans had been over the years. He does not understand the pro-life issue, but he is a transactional businessman, and would understand making a deal with pro-lifers. So I view voting for Trump as something like rooting for another team in the semi-finals because that is the team you want to play against in the finals. If Harris wins, the tournament will be canceled due to climate change.
What Would the Plural Be?
As regards this: “…and perhaps it will help us to understand shoot cussing, slang, and other related . . . what’s the plural of flamboyance?”
I think a modified plural, such as “flamboyantries,” would do nicely, even if it must be freshly minted.MC
MC, flamboyantries is perfect. Chef’s kiss.
Chat GPT / AI Bible Study?
I’m currently reading the Bible for the first time, and I’ve found ChatGPT very helpful in understanding concepts, historical background, and difficult passages.
It feels like it accelerates my learning, but I’m concerned it may also present misleading philosophical ideas, given that it’s just a predictive large language model and programmed by people who are probably non-believers, although that’s just a guess. But, I’d appreciate your thoughts on the use of ChatGPT for Bible study and if you feel that it could potentially lead to incorrect theology.
Have you ever used ChatGPT for Bible study yourself?
Thank you for your time,Matt
Matt, I think AI could be very helpful for concordance work, but I would warn you away from using it for “concepts” and “difficult passages.” Nothing is neutral and especially not that.
A Lost Brother
I need advice on how to balance the deep love for a sibling who’s also living an unbiblical life, and what to do about it. My brother, whom I love dearly, lives about 40 minutes from me—our relationship has always been strong (mutual love and respect for one another), though my respect for him has waned considerably in the last 8 years. Currently, he’s in a very unhappy, egalitarian marriage; he attends a church w/ a female “pastor” (and he knows better); he has a foul mouth, is too casual (IMO) w/ alcohol, and has an issue w/ complaining about others, including our own parents at times; and there is such a great chasm between our worldviews at this point, that I sometimes wonder how he got there.
With that context, here’s my dilemma. I DO still love him . . . I feel deep sadness knowing that he WANTS to spend more time with me (and my family; he loves my wife and kids, and is a very nice uncle) . . . he has expressed HIS sadness/depression to me before, and even more so to our sisters; and sometimes I feel that I could perhaps be a beacon of light to him MORE if I were to sacrifice more time to travel to him, and “hang out” and be the best influence that I can be.
But of course, that is a BIG sacrifice right now. I have 5 kids, a full time job, and my wife and I homeschool; I am a newly ordained Elder at my church (so bi-vocational); I teach 3 Bible classes a week for our church members, and soon will be doing so for our Christian Academy; and frankly, if I HAVE spare time I wish to spend that time with the Lord (in addition to my usual prayer, Bible reading, and study times).
In this same scenario, would you feel obligated to go to your brother, and be “salt and light” in his world, to perhaps save him from total despair? Or is he merely “reaping what he sowed”and he’s responsible for that, while my responsibility is within MY sphere?
The reason this is so tough is because I do have that deep love for my brother . . . I don’t want him falling into greater despair. But the Lord has me in the busiest time of my life I’ve ever experienced, and just don’t know what to do with my sadness for him (besides prayer and pleading with the Lord to spare him).
There are many other details that play into the context (e.g. how my other siblings fit it, my parents attitude toward him since falling into leftism, etc.) but with regard to MY relationship and what I am responsible for, hopefully this provides enough context.Ben
Ben, you have a responsibility to your brother, but it needs to be ranked within your other responsibilities to your immediate family. They are more important. Do what you can, but don’t sacrifice the greater responsibility to the lesser.
In Praise of Slang
Slang is partially how languages evolve, or devolve, depending on your point of view.Zeph
Zeph, yes, that is an important part of the picture.
We’re good over here, but no one’s better than the Scots. “Awa’ an’ bile yer heid!”Kristina
Kristina, and then there is the Scots expression about someone taking your head off, and putting it in your lap so that you could play with your “lugs” (ears).
Biblical Timelines
One day I sat down and mapped out a timeline of the genealogies in Genesis from Adam to Jacob and it hit me. Both Noah and Shem I’m sure knew Lamech and Lamech could have known Adam. So Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob could have known someone who could potentially say, “my dad (or grandfather) knew the first man Adam.”
That is nuts to me!!!
My question is do you think that Melchizedek could have been either Noah or Shem?Josh
Josh, I don’t think he could have been Noah. But there is an ancient account that identifies him with Shem. Not sure about that one either, but it brings the timeline question home. Noah was born fifty years after Adam died, for example.
More Sympathetic Than Usual
The Puritans have been so villainized by the modern culture that it is difficult to find accurate information about history where it concerns them. Particularly, the Salem Witch Trials are of such infamy that basically no one takes you seriously if you question the narrative that all the women were innocent, and all the judges were crooked.
What is your view of the Trials? Do you think that the women were innocent, guilty, or mixed? Do you know of any books or resources that investigate the Trials with an honest view?Peter
Peter, I believe the victims were victims of a true miscarriage of justice. But I believe that the broader Puritan culture of that time has also been grossly slandered. The hysteria that broke out in Salem happened during a time when the charter of Massachusetts had lapsed, and somebody was back in England getting it renewed. When broader government was restored, order was restored at the behest of Puritan ministers around the colony. So the trials were a genuine travesty, but not representative. And for a more balanced account of the trials, check out In the Devil’s Snare by Mary Beth Norton, which I am currently chipping away at.
Quick Tips on Writing?
I hope you are doing well, brother. Over the last year or two I have really enjoyed reading your works of fiction (especially “Ride, Sally Ride” and “Flags out Front”). Do you have any quick tips you’d be willing to share when it comes to writing a novel? I am nearly halfway through writing my first full-length novel (maybe I’ll submit to Canon when I have something polished).Mathan
Mathan, the only quick tips I have would be found here. My advice would be to grind it out and see what happens.
Thanks Much
Thank you, Sir, for the ‘Coalitions and Weirdos’ post. God bless you and yours!Matt
Matt, thank you.
Charlotte Mason?
My question has to do with Christian education. My wife has been highly influenced by Charlotte Mason and is wanting to incorporate CM philosophy into our homeschooling curriculum specifically through ambleside online. I was curious if you knew of her or had any opinion with her approach. Also, with Latin, how do you manage learning other foreign languages simultaneously? Do you start Latin first and then add on other languages later? Charlotte Mason would teach Latin too but would teach it when the kids were around 12.
I’m listening through your classical Christian education books on Canon+ and that is where I heard about teaching kids Latin. Thanks for all the work you’ve done in this area.Joshua
Joshua, I am afraid I don’t know enough about Charlotte Mason’s approach to speak to it. I have heard of some who have incorporated it into a classical approach—maybe some of our other readers could speak to that. I would start with Latin because it is foundational to all the Romance languages, and pouring the foundation first makes sense to me.
Fifth Commandment Issues
My family and I are having a bit of a struggle regarding honoring the fifth commandment. While we approve of honoring the fifth commandment, and we like the idea of inter-generational households, one side of our family is extremely overbearing and even, to some extent, controlling. We recognize that there are obviously some charitable nuances within the fifth commandment, and we also understand that merely because not everyone’s respectable doesn’t mean that they don’t still deserve respect as a member of a family. However, sometimes these family members attempt to control or are inappropriately invested in everything our nuclear family tries to do. What do you suggest about this?NN
NN, I would suggest that you not begin by pulling away without explanation. I would begin by you, the father, having a conversation with your father or father-in-law. Explain the problem. You want to spend time together, but you intend to make the decisions for your family. The second stage is to be prepared to “have a scene” when you decline to cooperate in a “who’s in charge?” control situation. Make sure that you don’t lose your temper or self-control during the scene. Stay cheerful, but do not surrender the point. You will have more conversations after the fact. Stick to your guns. If that doesn’t resolve things, then it would be time to start creating a little more distance. Just a little.
Open Theism
I have a good friend and I really believe he is a Christian. He seems to really love Jesus by the way he cares for his family and when you hear his testimony it is pretty evident that God has done and is doing a work in him. He really likes the postmil optimistic view of the future, and he is kind of “rowdy,” which I really like, but I think he is an open theist. He really does not like Calvinism and we go back and forth all the time on that. He actually told me, “Ask Doug Wilson if he thinks open theism is blasphemy and why.” Also, how do you define heresy? And if I mistakenly believe something that is heretical, does that make me a heretic? Can my friend be a heretic and be born again at the same time?
Thanks for your time Pastor Wilson. I love you sir. I’m very thankful for you and all the work you’ve done. I hope one day I can make it out to Moscow and see what it is like up there. Have y’all broken ground on the new building yet?Josh
Josh, we hope to move into the first phase of our new building project in just a few weeks.
I believe that open theism is heretical, which is not the same thing as saying that it is necessarily damnable heresy (although it sometimes is). That means I do believe that regenerate people can be ensnared and/or confused by it. But I also hold teachers who hold to open theism are disqualified from ministry, and should step down. And laymen who hold to it need to be told by their ministers that they may not circulate their views in the congregation.
I believe that open theism is heretical, which is not the same thing as saying that it is necessarily damnable heresy (although it sometimes is). That means I do believe that regenerate people can be ensnared and/or confused by it. But I also hold teachers who hold to open theism are disqualified from ministry, and should step down. And laymen who hold to it need to be told by their ministers that they may not circulate their views in the congregation.
A Resurgent Eschatology
It’s a privilege to have the opportunity to interact with you.
I am a young Presbyterian seminarian in Brazil, and I am very excited about Postmillennialism and Orthodox Preterism. I have been reading some books on this perspective and have noticed that many passages, which were once obscure to me, are now exceedingly clear.
This year, I had the privilege of attending your lectures at the Postmillennial Conference in São Paulo. I don’t remember any other Eschatology Conference that was Postmillennial.
As a learner, and fully aware of the knowledge I lack, I always have the fear of being wrong. I see many men far better than myself, like Greg Beale, Richard Bauckham, Vern Poythress, etc., who hold different positions. (Thankfully, there’s you, who is better than me and holds the same views on eschatology and preterism).
I know this dilemma will always exist, but what intrigues me is that after discovering Preterism and Postmillennialism, the “explanatory power” of these tools is overwhelming. It seems that many things become far too obvious. Given that, I wonder: Is it only obvious to me? But why isn’t it obvious to men far superior to me, like the ones I mentioned earlier?
As a good “mineiro” (I was born in Minas Gerais—Brazil), I am very suspicious by nature. It seems too obvious to be true.
How do you deal with this? Why do you think, although Preterism and Postmillennialism seem so clear in Scripture, that such skilled men fail to see it?
Another question I’d love for you to answer (I even asked this at the Conference in Brazil, but there wasn’t time to address it): To what do you attribute the decline in theologians who adhere to Postmillennialism and Orthodox Preterism? Historically, the majority were Postmillennial; why do you think that’s no longer the case today? (Or am I mistaken in my analysis?).
I can imagine how lucky I must be to have my letter read and responded to by you (as you certainly receive countless others, with much more interesting topics), but I am very hopeful, if you know what I mean.
A warm embrace, and I hope you can return to Brazil more often and bless us with more edifying lectures.Fabrício
Fabrício, thank you. I had a truly enjoyable trip to your country, and the hospitality of our hosts was striking. I like your phrase, “too obvious to be true.” I agree that the explanatory power of this perspective is one of the most telling things about it. When I came to this perspective multiple things fell into place for me. I believe that as faith in Christ Himself declined (due to the Enlightenment) what was left was the shell of postmillennial optimism. Post mill without Jesus, which is pretty thin soup. That glib optimism was shattered into a thousand pieces by the First World War. But the explanatory power of this perspective cannot be denied, and there is a true resurgence of this view in process now. It is a wonderful time to be alive.
If God has actually promised to save all children of believers, then he will actually do it, because his promises cannot fail. In this case, presumably those holding this doctrine must hold one of the logical consequences: 1) It never actually happens that all of the children of Christians fail to be saved. 2) Or if one of them dies clearly unsaved, then this infallibly reveals to us that the parents themselves are not actually Christians 3) Or, the promise is not an unconditional one save for those already stated in the promise itself (not in the class of “after… Read more »
David, I take the promises to parents the same way I take the promises of answered prayer—given to all, and appropriated by some by faith. “And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.” (Matthew 21:22).
So, David’s 3) is the case, there are conditions to the promise and we can assume in all instances where children of believers are not saved the problem was the parent’s faulty faith?
I anticipated this sort of response, and asked some questions of it. I am genuinely interested to know how they would be answered. Essentially this position appears to mean that the faith required for this particular promise includes a doctrinal correctness test. The believer who didn’t think he ever actually read in his Bible that God has promised that all the children of believers will certainly themselves be believers can never begin to appropriate the promise, because he’s not aware of this promise. He prays based on God’s kindness, mercy and provision in Jesus Christ as someone who’d be utterly… Read more »
“Essentially this position appears to mean that the faith required for this particular promise includes a doctrinal correctness test.” I’m not sure why it would be a doctrinal correctness test specifically. You would first need to eliminate the alternatives. “When you train up a child in what is right, when he grows he will not falter.” I’ve seen many Christian parents repeat this for no purpose other than to dampen the anxiety in their own hearts. They need read the logical implication in it that I do. That being that if your child falters when grown, it is definitionally your… Read more »
To be clear: I wasn’t saying that it *is* a doctrinal test, but that it implicitly includes one – and that it’s a significant one (not a trivial concern), because in this particular case it would appear that the great majority of Christians fall at that hurdle. It’s hard to believe specific promises if you failed to realise that they were there.
“It’s hard to believe specific promises if you failed to realise that they were there.”
Well that depends on how simplistic a person’s worldview is. If someone believes “God will take care of them if they are faithful”, that can encompass quite a broad swath of belief in God promises.
But no on the whole I’m interested in the same inquiry you are, though I’ve found Calvinists tend to shy why from dealing directly logical entailments .
Is this a specifically Calvinist belief? I think we Catholics are told that “God has no grandchildren.” Being brought up well by virtuous, devout parents is a great blessing because part of that upbringing is learning to love the good and to shun sin. But there are no guarantees because salvation depends on the individual’s persevering to the end. What St Ambrose said to St Monica, the mother of Augustine, “It cannot be that the child of so many tears can be lost,” means that you must never give up praying for your wayward adult child. But it isn’t a… Read more »
It’s a CREC belief.
I knew a teacher from Luxembourg. He told me that when children come to school in Luxembourg, in First Grade, they are taught German; in Second Grade, French; in Fifth Grade, English and in high school, the students have to choose another language. Every child. That tells you that children can learn more than one language at a time. It is folly of the worst order to wait until they are twelve. A part of adolescent biology is that part of the brain that controls language learning, partially shuts down. That is why a preadolescent immigrant child can learn to… Read more »
Sports and Physical Limits – You may consider band or orchestra for your kids. I participated in both sports and music in my youth, and all four of my children were in various musical groups during their childhood. Although the physical aspect (“toughness”) is very different, there are tons of similar teachable moments with being diligent in practicing, attending rehearsals, respecting authority, teamwork, dependability, competing for chair placements, and so on.
Considering the highly murderous and savage history of some of the immigrant populations that we’ve let into this country in huge numbers, would it not be right to expel some of them based off of their genetics? I’m referring to Germans, of course, such as President Trump. Now, if I said that on Fox News I’d be widely condemned. But Trump says it about slightly darker immigrants and his followers lap it up. It would be absolutely bizarre it it weren’t just aligning with most of this nation’s history. Just like the Confederates were judged for their unrighteousness (do those… Read more »
Hi Georgia, blessings to you. I had to look up the quote to see what you were referencing. I do think you’ve taken the most uncharitable view possible. “Many of them murdered far more than one person, and they’re now happily living in the United States. You know, now a murderer, I believe this, it’s in their genes. And we got a lot of bad genes in our country right now.” This was regarding the 13,099 illegal migrants, documented by U.S. Customs and Border Protection, who are on ICE’s non-detained docket (according to Reuters). I’m sure you can take his… Read more »
To deal with the deflections first, people who committed murder are already prevented from immigrating here. The quoted statistic has nothing to do with that. It is regarding people who immigrated here and later committed murder, most of whom are serving their sentence behind bars. In most if not all cases, they will be deported when their sentence is over. These people immigrated here over the last 40 years, including during the Trump administration, and I would guess a small minority of them came during the current administration. We’ve had roughly 400,000 homicides in the USA during the last 40… Read more »
” You remember that he claimed a Mexican-American judge should recuse himself from a case solely due to his race, right?” While that’s technically what he said, in this particular instance the judge had connections to an organization very politically involved on immigration issues, issues which for a variety of reasons you yourself have already explained, might bias him against Trump. “Trump is pushing hatred and racism against our neighbor as a personal view and as a national policy.” Much as all Democrat politicians nationwide do. I haven’t checked the 2024 platform, but when reading found no fewer than 32 explicitly… Read more »
So you ignore what Trump actually said, give him an excuse to say something different (which he didn’t say), and then ignore all the other times I quoted him making other made explicitly race-based insults. We could add: The 9 Trump employees who testified to federal investigators that he was explicitly ordering them to segregate Black people out of his high-value apartment buildings“You don’t want to live with them either.” – Trump’s words to the DOJ investigator on the matter”Only the blacks could live like this.” – Trump’s statement to Michael Cohen while passing through a poor Black neighborhood near… Read more »
“So you ignore what Trump actually said” I didn’t do that. In fact I explicitly acknowledged what Trump actually said, and credited you for reproducing it accurately. This is a lie. Apologize for lying. “ give him an excuse to say something different” This is made up. I did no such thing. Apologize for lying. Noting that there was a material issue at hand for the judge’s potential recusal doesn’t give Trump an “excuse” for anything whatever. It doesn’t even attempt to address Trump’s moral culpability. I was here on the board during Trump’s first campaign. I’m quite on the record… Read more »
Hi Georgia. I’m reading the statistic differently, but I’ll try and find clarity. My understanding is that the statistics are gathered as the individual presents themselves to the border. They either self-identify, having committed crimes in their country, or our information sharing with their country of origin identifies them as having committed the crime. Justin is much better at getting to the bottom of an issue or debate than I am…but simply put in my mind, immigrants may commit less crime than native US citizens but illegal immigrants should commit no crimes because they shouldn’t be here in the first… Read more »
“But Trump says it about slightly darker immigrants and his followers lap it up.”
When has Trump ever suggested genetics based immigration enforcement?
” those of you who have empowered Trump and his blatant and unholy hatred for those of other races will be judged as well.”
Define “empowered”. What are the objective criteria for empowering someone I have never met, and where in Scripture do I find justification for that criteria as sinful? I would very much like to avoid as much judgement in heaven as possible, I’ll already get plenty, so please do follow up on this with specifics.
Justin, if you’re going to feed the troll, then I suggest relentless mockery. Logical arguments don’t work on paid shills, who are only here in a feeble attempt to guilt and shame people — using the same old, tired, laughable tropes (“Twump’s a racist!”) — out of voting for the Bad Orange Man. The tyrannical, abortive bloodlust of the Party of (D)eath is far worse than anything Trump’s ever done or said — real or (mostly) imagined. And if anyone has any qualms about voting for Donald “Mean Tweets” Trump, then they haven’t given any serious thought to just how… Read more »
FP, you’ve got it backward. Jesus said that you should be as wise as serpents and as harmless as doves, not the other way around.
Since when do you care what Jesus said? Didn’t you renounce your faith?
The point is that you care, or at least claim to care, what Jesus said, whether I do or not. So maybe you could occasionally act like it?
The quote in every translation I’ve ever read is “innocent as doves”, which is notably different from harmless. Jesus himself was innocent as a dove, but then he also ransacked the temple foyer.
Also responding to fp for comment economy:
For some time I’ve enjoyed using the board specifically as an environment where I know people will understand and follow the logical arguments I give, even if the person I’m using them against does not. Using the logical against the illogical here is less for convincing them of anything than it is…..well….. sport.
The version I am most familiar with is the King James. I just looked it up to confirm that my memory was correct, and KJV does indeed say “harmless”. However, since FP is neither harmless nor innocent, it’s kind of a moot point. I come here because I find a civil and honest exchange of views to be useful. I occasionally learn things from people I disagree with, and I have occasionally re-thought a belief because someone made a comment that opened a perspective that had not occurred to me. I would like to think that I occasionally perform the… Read more »
Some years ago this website eliminated “likes” which requires I approve of this comment manually without having a great deal to say.
I’ve been in arguments with both Cherrera and FP despite being on the “same side” many times.
We disagree on a very many great things but, despite my opinion on where you’ve failed, I respect you as a seeker of truth.
He did once ask why we can’t get our immigrants from Norway! But I think I must resist the temptation to take every single thing he says absolutely literally while being willing to say “That’s obviously not what he meant” about politicians I like better than Trump. I wasn’t crazy about his immigrants “poisoning America’s blood” remark, primarily because one of my better contributions to my new country was becoming a preemie blood donor–which was only possible because Canadians have a much lower incidence of having CMV antibodies (which can be fatal to newborns) in their blood. Only 15% of… Read more »
A showman knows his audience. Does a showman ever come to believe his own shtick?
John, absolutely. I think the best commentary on Trump is the guy who said that we’ve gone from George Washington, who never told a lie, to Richard Nixon, who never told the truth, to Donald Trump, who never knew the difference.
Given Trump’s obvious mental decline, and given the fact that he’s been lying about so much for so long, it would not surprise me if he now believes his own schtick, or at least some of it. The first step toward belief, after all, is the desire to believe.
I love how you confuse Trump with Biden. It’s like you want to tell the truth, but you keep getting the object wrong.
Biden is no longer a candidate for president; Trump is. So whatever issues Biden may have, they are no longer relevant. And what I said is an accurate descriptor of Trump.
I love how you can’t bear to hear your dear leader criticized.
“ So whatever issues Biden may have, they are no longer relevant.”
Well…. he is CURRENTLY the President. So it is a bit relevant given that Kamala has a duty to remove him from office if he is not capable of the task, and she hasn’t. So if in fact Biden is unfit, Kamala is abandoning her duties as Vice President which does not reflect well on someone who wants to become the next President.
Under the 25th Amendment, it takes a majority of the cabinet to remove him from office on unfitness grounds. That there has been no serious bid to do so tells me that a majority of the cabinet thinks he is still sufficiently functional to make it to January. I hope they’re right. But contrast that with the GOP and Donald Trump. When it became apparent that Biden was no longer up to the job, his entire party sat on him to step aside. It is becoming increasingly apparent that Trump’s own mental fitness is subpar; when someone starts ranting about… Read more »
“That there has been no serious bid to do so tells me that a majority of the cabinet thinks he is still sufficiently functional to make it to January.” OR They realize that invoking the constitution to remove him from office would make Democrats in general look bad, irrationally so I admit but it is the case nevertheless, and so they don’t invoke it purely out of self interest. I respect you enough to think it somewhat implausible that you genuinely believe that the Democrat cabinet believes that Biden is physically fit. As for Trump, I was in camp Vivek… Read more »
Nobody thinks that Biden is as good as he was when he was 30. The question is whether he is “good enough” to make it until January. I am reliably informed that the decision was made to have him debate, knowing full well that it would be a disaster for him, specifically so that he could be pressured to step aside. And as a Democrat, I wish he had stepped aside a year ago so we could have had a fully engaged primary process; I think we had much better candidates than Harris and she would not have been the… Read more »
Are you not entertained?
Sorry if that’s flip, but it’s about where I am. It matters, and it doesn’t matter given the options. Policy preferences aside, when you watch Harris aren’t you a little disturbed by the prospect of her holding Presidential power the same way you’re worried about it being Trump? Maybe not as much, but the same way? I am. If Trump campaigns like a rambling drunk, Harris campaigns like a woman aimlessly loitering because she doesn’t quite know where she is and doesn’t quite know what to do about it.
Hi John: Your question raises a subject I have been turning around in my head for quite some time that I’ve wanted to post about here to see what others think about it. Since this is a dying thread — not sure how many people are still reading it at this point — with your kind permission, I would like to wait until the new thread begins on Tuesday to give you a fuller response. The short and sweet answer is that Harris would not have been my choice for the job, but I think she’s probably more willing to… Read more »
Ah but you’ve fallen into the same trap as Georgia, albeit much more reasonably and eloquently. The comparison she made was about specifically a policy proposal in which immigration was enforced based on genetics. Those are arguably racist statements, not policy proposals. That’s why I was so willing to cede the point of his racism to force her to back up that claim. Really the reason why Trump’s more outlandish statements don’t bother me is I don’t consider him as having “beliefs”. Its more like clothing. On Tuesday its raining so we’ll support stimulus packages, on Wednesday its a bit… Read more »
It’s like nobody has heard of Steven Miller around here. Or his new down gf Laura Loomer 🤡
It is good that Christ Church lets head of household women vote. That being said, was it appropriate for the unmarried women, and widows not have any voting opportunity at the time of the passage of women getting the vote?
So a Jewish journalist chooses who will be presented as the leader of the Christian Nationalist movement and it just happens to be the guy shilling for Jewish power on a weekly basis. I’m shocked.
Sure, she could have chosen Nick Fuentes and presented his most antisemitic statements as typical of the Christian Nationalist movement. Perhaps the one comparing Holocaust victims to “cookies being baked in an oven.” Or his call for a “Catholic Taliban” or perhaps his demand “for revenge on his enemies and a total Aryan victory.” If she were as dishonest and trouble-making as you believe all Jews to be, that’s exactly what she would have done.
You’re making some interesting assumptions with that statement.
“See, if all those white Christian gentiles controlling the Jewish nationalist movement really wanted to hurt Jewish nationalism, they’d put a hyper-Zionist Jew in charge of it instead of a white Christian Gentile. Putting one of their own in charge shows that they really care about furthering Jewish nationalism by controlling it themselves.”
To have Christian Nationalism, to have a Christian nation presumably means among other things that Christians would be in the social positions holding the various levers of power. Well there are already people, and largely a certain group of people holding those levers of power. Christian Nationalism would necessitate removing and replacing them or you just have what you have now. Where does Doug Wilson see himself in such a project? Could it be anything other than steering the movement away from political power and subverting the movement? Wilson’s intent is the usual book marketing through controversy but more impotently… Read more »
This is mostly just….. mechanically wrong. Being a Christian nation would not mean artificially removing non-Christians from positions of institutional power, then forcing Christian policies on the nation against its will. Being a Christian nation would mean you don’t have to engineer who has the levers of power whatever because so much of the nation is Christian that those with their hands on the levers of power will be overwhelmingly Christian by default without you doing anything about it. If we removed the top 50 most powerful people in Saudi Arabia and replaced them with Christians, it would not be… Read more »
If anyone was wondering why Doug Wilson would put so much effort over the past year defending some of the wealthiest and most politically powerful people in the world and why he made a point of visiting Israel…this was the game he was playing. He was putting out job applications to serve as controlled opposition.
Then literally, “Awe shucks, they want to talk to me? They think I’m cool?”
https://rumble.com/v5hroki-analyzing-bret-stephens-new-york-times-column.html?e9s=src_v1_ucp
Some fine, incisive intellects on display in the comment section. Hard to pick a personal favorite between “Happy October 7 everyone,” “You can identify a Jevv severals ways, but the best is by their eyes – their eyes have a snake like look about them, similar to Arabs, or “all the leo frank worm people should leave the global West and back to their desert shet hole.” Classy. Very classy.
It is likely that the timeline in most Bibles today is the result of corruption in the Masoretic text. Assuming, as many young earth creationists do, that there are no gaps in the genealogies, and that the Septuagint is correct, there are several hundred more years in the genealogies, which would make the world 7000+ years old, make the flood happen before 3000 BC, and make more sense as far as history is concerned.
Re: Johnny Cash biography. I’ll do you one better, how about an autobiography: Man In Black. Published by Zondervan too!