Letters On the Very Threshold of November

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Protestant History?

Can you recommend any good resources-books or video series-for learning church history from a Protestant point of view?

Thank you and God bless.

Ryan

Ryan, I would start with Philip Schaff and The Principle of Protestantism for a good orientation. After that I would get a good overview of the good guys and bad guys with Harold O.J. Brown’s Heresies, or Bannerman’s Historical Theology. And then you could start in with names and dates history, books like d’Aubigne’s History of the Reformation in England.

Another Point for Denny to Consider

RE: The Little Drummer Boy Responds to Denny Burk

One additional question for Denny Burk on his argument that the OT (in the original language) is not really explicit when it comes to obscenity is to ask him for an example of what he would consider to be an explicit word or phrase in Hebrew. People digging your post 1000 years from now could make the exact same argument, that “Wilson’s post was not actually explicit because the word that he used is just an euphemism for ‘female private parts’, so it is really not explicit.”

My point being that he is winning the argument by defining the terms in his favour. If he believes that the words used by Scripture cannot be obscene or vulgar “by definition,” then guess what? He must be right that the Scriptures do not use obscenities or vulgarities. If he cannot produce a Hebrew word (used perhaps in some non-biblical Hebrew corpus) that he would consider vulgar or obscene than he is just defining the terms to his convenience.

Furthermore, saying that “basar” is not explicit because it connotative rather than denotative is absolutely irrelevant, e.g. the word “c*ck” literally means “rooster”, but when it is used as an euphemism for “p*nis” it is somehow more shocking and offensive than the explicit word.

Joao

Joao, thanks.

Crowd Source This One?

My apologies for such and annoying question. I am convinced that over the last couple of months you had a succinct sentence or two that gave an overview of how a husband and wife deal with decision making especially when there is disagreement. I remember thinking, huh, that’s beautiful. As it turns out this guide or idea has become very personally relevant for my wife and I but I just can’t articulate it. I have searched and scanned through every recent blog but I just can’t seem to find it. I have a general sense that you were responding to some other person but not in a letter to editor section if that helps pinpoint it. Having not read your Federal Husband book or others of yours on the topic and gathering most of your thoughts through this blog I feel I still butcher any attempt to verbalize “headship”.

Much appreciated,

Jim

Jim, very sorry, but that does not ring a bell. Readers, can any of you help out?

Is There Tension Here?

There are two different emphases in your teaching that seem to push in opposite directions and I am wondering how they fit together. On the one hand, I have heard you say that an important aspect of biblical masculinity that you believe is often neglected in a lot of the evangelical teaching on gender is men’s orientation towards mission. You have pointed out that novels written by men for men focus on a mission and this deeply resonates with men. In your Man Rampant episode with Aaron Renn, you seem to suggest that one of the issues with much of the evangelical teaching on masculinity is that it only focuses on the home and the way that a man should be serving his family at home and ignores the idea of having an outward facing mission.

However, on the other hand, your teaching also seems to focus on the home a lot as something that should be prioritized. I have heard you say that a problem is that everyone wants to save the world but no one wants to help with the dishes. I’m wondering how these two ideas fit together, on the one hand that men need an outward mission that is not just within the four walls of their home and on the other hand that saving the world starts with simple things like establishing a household and bringing up your children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord without going out into the world to slay the dragon. I’m confused as to whether you’re saying that men should be more focused on the domestic world of their households in contrast to the way that previous functions of the household have been outsourced to the outside world, or if you are saying that men are too focused on the domestic world of their household and should be more focused on external missions, or some combination of both. How exactly do these ideas fit together?

Will

Will, that is an astute question. The man’s orientation toward the home is not because that is his mission field, but rather because that is his base of operations, and therefore needs to be kept in order. His wife is given to him as a helper toward his mission, but if he loves her as Christ loved the church, then he is equipping her to be a true helper to him. When a logger keeps his axe sharp, this is not something that takes him away from his vocation.

Covenantal Salvation

Commenting on your “When Do Baptized Children Become Covenant Members” video. Will you explain covenantal salvation a bit more? Why did Adam and Eve have a believing child and then also an unbelieving wayward child? Was covenantal salvation not in place until the Abrahamic covenant? When was covenantal salvation established?

I was asking my husband these questions and he encouraged me to reach out and ask. We are new parents and we desire a strong Biblical theology of how to raise our children covenantally (:

Thanks so much!

Andrew & Erin

Andrew & Erin, covenantal salvation means that the church is the community of salvation, and that children of at least one believer are included in that community (1 Cor. 7:14). They are true members of the visible church, and should be treated as such. Parents are given promises throughout Scripture concerning their seed, and so, at the baptism of their children, they are called upon to state whether or not they believe those promises. They engage to bring their children up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. The promises are not automatic, like a vending machine, but they are promises which are apprehended through faithful parental obedience.

Nonsensical Goulash

I saw this video about Christian Nationalism a few days ago and was wondering if you could respond in a blog post or a video.

Thanks,

Trey

Trey, the basic move is to take the actions of various nutjobs of the right and appoint the perpetrators of those outrages as the leading lights of CN. It is much easier than answering the question “by what standard?”

Wobbly Christian?

I searched for a while but couldn’t find this specific question, which is regarding membership and baptism for a new believer that has made a profession of faith, desires baptism, and is striving to live a regenerated lifestyle, but is still beset by an ongoing addiction (porn, drugs, alcohol, etc.). I know that God doesn’t rely on us to reach a certain level of sanctification before the atonement takes effect (justification vs. sanctification), but ongoing sin is not excused for a believer (1 John 3:6). Where do you draw the line for membership and baptism in this case? Are you looking for ‘directionally correct progress’ on an individual basis? I’ve seen it handled several different ways, and I wonder if we are often unnecessarily withholding baptism (to avoid a potential discipline situation, but I don’t think discipline necessarily applies if the individual is repentant, sincere, and is trying to work out what Christ has worked in us to overcome the sin). Anyway, I would love to hear your thoughts.

On an unrelated note, I recently saw someone refer to you as a “jolly wall” and I thought that was a perfect description. I am grateful for your indefatigable cheerfulness while you stand firmly on God’s Word. God bless you and happy NQN! I am here for it.

Thanks!

Tim

Tim, I think your phrase “directionally correct” is a good way to describe it. I wouldn’t baptize a man who professed faith but who wouldn’t stop living with his girlfriend, but I would baptize a man who repudiated porn even if I knew he was going to continue to struggle with it. If he needs accountability, and wants it, baptism is part of that.

Women as Scripture Readers?

Kind sir, are you of the persuasion that women ought not to read Scripture to the church? Do you take that to be authoritative?

Appreciatively,

AW

AW, yes. It is authoritative, and women ought not fulfill that role.

Good Idea

By the grace of God, through several years of your writings and the excellent content on Canon+, my family has moved from the SBC to the PCA to the CREC. What wonderful liturgy! The Lord’s Day truly is the best day of the week! But these changes leave me with a conundrum on catechizing my young children, as I’m not sure there is one written that is Reformed but also emphasizes the objectivity of the covenant and God’s love for the children of His people. Rich Lusk wrote one but a lot of answers would need editing for brevity to make it usable for memorization.

What catechism would you use today for young children?

Any chance of a CREC committee producing a catechism for young children? Perhaps a revision with the Children’s Catechism as a base as its answers are admirably concise.

Christopher

Christopher, good idea. In the meantime, until we get our act together, the catechism classes at Christ Church use the Westminster Shorter and the Heidelberg.

What to Do?

I am seeking counsel about whether I should make a matter known to my friend and mentor regarding his son. While my wife and I were shopping several weeks ago I ran into the son of a pastor in my church. He was extremely . . . happy to see us. In fact he was quite clearly (in my opinion) inebriated (I suspect he was stoned). Of coarse, I cannot prove this—I don’t have a drug test. But I’ve been a young man and fallen into this folly so I am not a novice concerning this type of thing.

This young man is part of our worship team and has an apprenticeship under our worship director. His father is the family ministries pastor of our church. The father and I have our differences theologically, but he is a good man. He has taken me under his wing, put himself out there for me by helping me get a better job, and has become something of a mentor to me. I also suspect that he is not altogether unaware of the goings on with his son.

Because of my respect for the father, I have not brought it up. But I don’t know if I should. My instincts are to let it go and mind my business, but since the young man is leading in a way, I feel he should be held to some sort of standard. I suppose I could also seek counsel with the other pastor of our church. Just not sure what I should do—if anything.

Thank you kindly for your time and attention.

A

A, yes, I would share this with the father. I would share it, and leave it there. This is a Golden Rule situation. Would you want someone to share that with you if the positions were reversed? Just say something like, “You may already be aware of this, and may already be dealing with this, but I just wanted you to know. Mention it, and then leave it there.”

Support for Israel and Eschatology?

To what extent has American eschatology determined our foreign policy in regards to Israel? As Disp Premil has dominated our American eschatology for quite a while, and this view clearly has a special role for Israel, do you think this correlates or caused certain commitments? Lastly, what do you think our relationship to the country of Israel would be like (would there even be a country???) had our eschatology been solidly postmil for the past 150 years? Any of this addressed in your upcoming book?

Thanks

Tim

Tim, yes. Some of this is addressed in the upcoming book. I don’t believe that dispensational theology has shaped our policy regarding Israel, but I do believe that the fact that large numbers of evangelicals in America hold to that theology has made our policy toward Israel an easier sell. And there has been some direct influence. Lord Balfour, of Balfour Declaration fame, was motivated by his eschatology.

Mark Twain? Really?

First, I just wanted to say thank you for your ministry. It has been a great blessing to my family and me. We enjoy the Canon press app and use it almost daily. The resources on there are wonderful and the Lord has used them in our lives as a family. I’m a pastor’s wife and home school mother of five children. My husband and I seek to teach our children the Word of God on a daily basis and to always point them to Christ, the only way, truth, and life. I know you’ve done the same with your family and it’s a blessing to see them serving Christ as well.

I do have a question (or concern) that I’d like to get your input on. Although most of your resources are wonderful and do point to Christ, I’m a bit confused on your support of Mark Twain. He was an atheist and a hater of God. This was not something that he kept a secret but is something that is actually portrayed in his books. With you being such an advocate of truth, I wonder why you are such a supporter of his “classic” works? You encourage our children to read his work and be entertained by it. We are commanded by Scripture to keep away from every form of evil (1Thess. 5:22). My question is, why would you want us or our children to read anything from a God hater?

Please know that I do not mean this email in any negative way, I really want to understand your view on this. Am I viewing this wrongly?

Thank you for taking the time to read my email and I look forward to hearing from you.

Looking to our Savior

LP

LP, in the first place you are not wrong about Twain. He was a flat-out infidel. What we do when we sell books by him, or other unbelievers, is this. We have a series of “Worldview Editions”which contain a worldview guide to help believers navigate what they are reading. For example, I wrote the guide for Huck Finn.

Federal Responsibility

I’m having trouble with the idea of the husband being responsible for his wife’s sins and how that fits into the clear principle explained in Ezek. 18:20: “The son will not bear the iniquity of the father, nor will the father bear the iniquity of the son . . .” I know what you wrote about guilt vs. responsibility, but consider this example: a husband walks in on his wife fornicating with another man. Is the husband responsible for his wife’s choice to commit adultery? I have a hard time assigning blame for that to the husband.

Now, there are of course reasons for why the wife might have done that, and if those reasons can be traced back to things the husband did or didn’t do (i.e. the husband’s sin), then I believe the husband bears the responsibility for those things. But I can’t see the husband being assigned responsibility for the immorality of his wife.

Which brings to mind the following thought, and I don’t know if this pertains or his helpful: sin always has consequences (Col. 3:25), and often the consequences of sin in one area are to experience the effects of someone else’s sin in another. Sin begets sin.

I believe David could testify to that. The question is, how far does this cascading effect extend to the concept of responsibility? I think that’s what I’m having trouble sorting out, and I can’t see it being a wholesale proposition.

grh

grh, I think you are still blending the two together. “Is the husband responsible for his wife’s choice to commit adultery? I have a hard time assigning blame for that to the husband.” I don’t believe those two phrases should be interchangeable. As for Ezekiel, I believe that criminal prosecution should be limited to the individual culprit. If a wife committed murder, I believe the husband is responsible for his family, but that the wife is the one who should be executed for the crime, not the husband.

Teaching Teens

I’ve just recently started my first pastorate at a church that has a bustling private Christian school ministry, probably similar to Logos in Moscow in some ways. One of my primary undertakings has been connecting with the high-schoolers. Particularly I am teaching a grade 10-12 Bible class 3x a week (we’re currently going through Acts) and I will also be starting up a Youth Ministry sometime early in the new year.

Do you have any insights or advice for teaching and capturing this age group? I really don’t want to force feed them facts but rather inspire them to hunger for Scripture and for God. I find the balance between establishing respect and focus while also remaining playful and lighthearted to be challenging.

Thanks in advance.

(PS, I have read Chris Schlect’s book!)

Colin

Colin, assuming them to be decent Christian kids, what I would do is teach on things that they can find to be directly relevant and applicable to their situation. Things like assurance of salvation, life between the sexes, navigating friendships, and so on. Let them see how the Scriptures plug in to everyday life.

Facts Are Your Friends

‘ll get straight to the point. I am a Student (7th to 12th grade) Minister at my church. Postmill has been a really great influence on my ministry here. But, recently, the numbers attending my events have been smaller than even the past 3 years I’ve served here. So, what advice would you give to a (admittedly young) minister in this position who is dealing with discouragement over numbers?

Thanks,

Anon

Anon, I would do some research. I would seek counsel from your pastor, and from some trusted parents of some of your kids. I would not seek counsel for your “discouragement,” because then you might not find out anything about what the trouble is. Ask something like this. “Numbers are declining. Do you have any perspective on why that might be? And, please, if you think it has to do with anything I am doing or not doing, feel free to share that too. I won’t be offended.” Take that info on board, making sure you are not offended, and then pray through it.

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DC
DC
1 year ago

Ryan, Ligonier has a medium-dive on church history: Here’s a link to some of their resources and recommendations: https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/recommended-resources-church-history.

You can also find their stuff often for free on their TV app. I do it thru Apple TV.

A slightly deeper dive on video is John Gerstner- “Hand Out Church History.” This video is low def / old, but Gerstner is always amazing.

Ken B
Ken B
1 year ago

On a lighter note, Wilson should get his act together regarding the frequent use of expletives on his blog like “sin”. Puts decent people off.

More seriously I don’t get it with not allowing women to read scripture in the church gathering. I hold to 1 Tim 2, but women could pray and prophesy at Corinth, and whatever you consider what exactly prophecy is here it was not private being for general edification of the body. It seems strange if that was allowed that a woman couldn’t read a lesson from a canonical prophet.

CP
CP
1 year ago
Reply to  Ken B

Thank you for bringing this up. I also find it very troubling that Doug has such a stance. It comes across as the common sin of being to quote Doug ” more holy than the Bible” . One of the many examples I always found so incredibly inconsistent on this topic was the fact that every advent at our CREC church that I attended for 20+ years sang the Magnificat every week. The very prophetic words of a woman ,the mother of our Lord and Saviour, recorded and containing the authority of scripture were being sung by every man and… Read more »

Justin Parris
Justin Parris
1 year ago
Reply to  CP

They need to think through the logic of what they teaching and saying. And then repent of their sinful actions, “

I don’t necessarily disagree with you, but I’m not sure precisely what sin it is they are meant to have committed in this version of events. Simply being wrong about this particular application of principle is not, itself, a sin. You seem to be implying that applying any sort of sex based discretion is inherently sinful, and that is a tough argument to back up with Scripture.

What claim of sin is it that you’re making?

Ken B
Ken B
1 year ago
Reply to  Justin Parris

Good question. In 1 Tim a woman should be silent instead of exercising a teaching ministry when the church comes together. Paul does not permit this. It’s not difficult to understand. The problem arises when this is extended to make it a general rule of silence. Paul if you like in 1 Cor 11 says I do permit a woman to speak – to pray or prophesy – providing she has her head ‘covered’. This should not be negated by the silent women verses at the end of 1 Cor 14 which has more to do with speaking in a… Read more »

Justin Parris
Justin Parris
1 year ago
Reply to  Ken B

I don’t disagree with any of this. Its just that this is a description of why this position is *incorrect*, not why it is sinful. CP called for repentance specifically. While it would not be Biblically supported to make an edict that you could only talk in church while wearing a hat with a hippo on it, neither is there any rule barring churches from applying a hippo-hat policy. On what grounds do you call someone applying these standards incorrectly to repentance? What’s the sin? What moral law did they break? Is there a rule somewhere that all people are… Read more »

Ken B
Ken B
1 year ago
Reply to  Justin Parris

I think the repentance would involve what the Greek word in the NT means to re-think. They should think again about their church practice to see if they are forbidding what God allows. (More churches need to do the opposite where allowing what God forbids!)

If there is a sin involved it would be along the lines of quenching the Spirit. Possibly also showing partiality in a way that negates Gal 3 : 28.

AKA
AKA
1 year ago
Reply to  Ken B

1 Cor 11 says nothing about whether the praying or prophesying is done in the assembly, however. Just sayin’…

Ken B
Ken B
1 year ago
Reply to  AKA

It’s the very nature of the gift. It is for the edification of the body, and all may prophesy when the church gathers in 1 Cor 14.

jigawatt
jigawatt
1 year ago

To a lot of people, saying the man is responsible is almost equal to saying he’s guilty. But are you only saying that he’s responsible in the sense of “responsible to clean up the mess?” The first mate runs the ship aground at 3am but the Captain is the one getting chewed out by the rear admiral later that morning. But if the rear admiral understands the situation rightly, that the captain did everything by the book, checked, double checked, vetted his people properly etc. wouldn’t he, rather than chew him out, say “You did everything right, but just got… Read more »

Jeff
Jeff
1 year ago

Ryan – also check out Nick Needham’s ‘2,000 Years of Christ’s Power.’ It’s a 5 book set that I have found very helpful. It’s not a deep dive in any one area, but provides a very thorough description of actions and actors.

Ken
Ken
1 year ago
Reply to  Jeff

An excellent recommendation. I have also used the late Bruce Shelley’s one-volume overview of church history with benefit.

The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
The Commenter Formerly Known As fp
1 year ago

Definition of blame, from the American Heritage dictionary:

1. To consider responsible for a misdeed, failure, or undesirable outcome.
2. To find fault with; criticize.
3. To place responsibility for (something).

Is it any wonder then why people blend responsibility and blame together?

Barnabas
Barnabas
1 year ago

He’s not an intellectual, he’s a wit.

Jill Smith
Jill Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  Barnabas

He may be a wit but John Greenleaf was Whittier.

Justin Parris
Justin Parris
1 year ago
Reply to  Barnabas

Saying someone isn’t an intellectual as a criticism of their use of intellect is a bit like saying someone isn’t an athlete because they didn’t win the race.

Its just not how the word works. Something of a blunder of an error to make in an insult predicated on a dispute of definitions.

Zeph
1 year ago

LP, the question that you asked about Twain have been asked by the church fathers concerning classical literature such as the Iliad and the Odyssey. Why teach writings of pagans? Correct men if I am wrong folks, but the reason that it is encouraged is because of the historical influence of the documents.

John Middleton
John Middleton
1 year ago
Reply to  Zeph

To know about the influence of classical literature, or to be influenced by classical literature? If the point is merely to inform students of ideas that shape the world in which they live, care should be taken to emphasize the contrast between pagan (ancient or modern) thinking and habits, and Christianity. If we think classical literature, written by pagans and unbelievers, is well worth reading because it does contain wisdom and point toward virtue then we might want to reconsider some tenets of our anthropology. That is, either common grace does more than we think or depravity is less total… Read more »

Justin Parris
Justin Parris
1 year ago
Reply to  John Middleton

“ That is, either common grace does more than we think or depravity is less total than we think.” How much do we think of either, and how did you come about that measurement? Earth is your battleground. Classical literature is the backbone of the sophisticated world on earth. If you intend to be of significant help in saving the culture, you first need to understand the battleground. Full stop. We can argue about the appropriate age or context for teaching any particular work, but that we need well educated men of God capable of interacting on this plane is so… Read more »

John Middleton
John Middleton
1 year ago
Reply to  Justin Parris

Not every Christian thinks about either at all, some do a lot, measured by their conversation. I’m not sure if you’ve answered my question, but it sounds like you lean toward for the sake of informing on influential ideas. Fine. Classical literature can also be just plain entertaining. However the fact we should not forget or neglect to mention is that when the writer is a non-believer, no matter how good they are at it the writing is the product of an unregenerate mind, blind to the most essential truth. The question is not how much has it influenced the… Read more »

Justin Parris
Justin Parris
1 year ago
Reply to  John Middleton

“The question is not how much has it influenced the world, but rather: How much should it influence the Christian?” Well I’m tempted to give the answer I always give when someone asks for a quantified answer to an unquantifiable question, 7 They should be influenced by it 7. In seriousness, I’m not sure how you would even theoretically address this as an issue. What does “influence” mean exactly? My stated purpose in being familiar with the world *requires* you be influenced by it to the extent that learning about anything is itself influencing the new you. If you read… Read more »

Zeph
1 year ago

A is the young man really a man or still a boy? If he is a young man, I would take a different elder and ask him over coffee about the event. Don’t accuse, but ask. You can tell the father, but a visit shows real world church accountability.

Jane
Jane
1 year ago
Reply to  Zeph

That is a good point. If he is serving as a ministry apprentice, then either he is a grown man preparing for ministry, or they have kids in roles that kids ought not to be in. Assuming it’s the former, and all the more because the church is treating him as mature enough to be trained for ministry, he should be dealt with as a man and not as his father’s child, which entails going to him directly.