I want to begin by acknowledging that the metaphors of damnation that we find in Scripture are quite possibly not literal descriptions — where the worm does not die, where the fire is not quenched, where it is an outer darkness, where there is a lake of fire, and so on. But before assuming that I am quietly becoming a liberal, let me point something out about the nature of symbolic language.
The symbol is always less than the reality it represents. I am married, and I wear a ring to symbolize the fact. But the ring is less than the reality. The flag is less than the nation it represents. This means that if the language about Hell is literal — straight across — then it represents a horrible reality. But if the language is figurative, then let no one take comfort in the fact, because the comfort is as false as the other lies that can take a man to Hell. If the language is literal, then it is the stuff of nightmares. If the language is figurative, then it will be much worse than that.
One of the reasons we object to language about judgment is that we believe that it corrupts our motives for coming to Christ. We should love Christ, not fear Him. Right, but as sinners we are in no shape to love Him, and our sins require us to fear Him. Jesus does not reject the motive of fear, but rather encourages us to cultivate it. “And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell” (Matt. 10:28).
But we are in the grip of theological preciosity, and we are fastidious about hellfire. We think that this kind of old school conversion is beneath us. In actual fact, it is rapidly becoming the only thing that still might reach us. It is the only thing we might still be able to see and hear. When you are almost blind, the words of grace have to be written out in big block letters on Belshazzar’s wall. When you are virtually deaf, then the mercy of God must shout.
In the vanity of our stupid dreaming, we think the doctrine of Hell is a challenge to God’s justice, when it is in fact nothing but God’s justice. We are so befuddled in our self-flattering conceits that we do not recognize that Heaven is the actual challenge to God’s justice. The problem is not how a just God could condemn anyone, but rather the problem is how a just God could allow any of our muddy boots even to touch the marble floors in His presence. In order to populate Hell, out to the edges of it, nothing whatever had to be done. In order to populate Heaven with even one sinner — still less the innumerable host that will be there — Jesus had to die. Jesus had to die so that we could be saved, and God remain just. In order for us to be damned and God remain just, as I have said, nothing whatever had to be done.
This is not an academic question. We are a wicked people, and we have sinned against very great light, and sinned away some of the greatest blessings that have ever been visited upon a people. We have slaughtered millions of our own children, and this means we must either have the forgiveness of Christ or damnation. We have publicly honored anal intercourse as a noble and fine activity, and have hounded and persecuted anyone who publicly reacts to it with the same kind of loathing that God has. We have bankrupted our great-grandchildren so that we might spend their livelihood on our lusts and comforts. We are becoming an appalling people.
So there are three glimpses of Hell and judgment that we ought to consider more than we do.
The first glimpse is the language of Scripture, some of which I have already mentioned. The descriptions of judgment after this life is over are particularly vivid, and the one who spoke of these things in the most graphic detail was the Lord Jesus. When the wicked man dies, his hope perishes (Prov. 11:7). It is appointed once for man to die, and after that the judgment (Heb. 9:27). The Lord Jesus told us, for example, of a rich man who begged for a moistened fingertip to refresh him in his torment in the flames, and he was denied even this tiny mercy (Luke 16:24). He then asked that an angel go and warn his brothers, and he was denied that also (Luke 16:29).
You want to worship the beast? You want his foul mark on your forehead or on your hand — the place where the law of God belongs (Ex. 13:9)? There is a cost to that choice — the choice that our ruling elites are currently making for us and on our behalf.
“And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name” (Rev. 14:9–11).
Not only tormented, but tormented in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. The Bible teaches that damnation has a gallery. The Jesus you have perhaps heard about is not the Jesus of the Bible.
The smoke from a flattened Babylon ascends forever and ever, and it is the only time in the New Testament that the saints of God respond with hallelujah (Rev. 19: 1,3,4,6).
The second glimpse is the historical judgments that prefigure the final Judgment. Moses left Egypt a smoking ruin. Sodom and Gomorrah are fittingly covered by a dead sea. The Flood wiped out all but eight of the human race. When the Roman armies gathered in force around Jerusalem, it was the point when “the wrath to come” (Luke 3:7) . . . came. When terror rains down from the sky, or rolls ominously in from the ocean, or shakes the very earth beneath our feet, as it regularly does, we should be reminded that the holiness of God is something we cannot afford to trifle with.
Those things that happen in history are less than those things that will happen at the end of history. Mountain ranges shake now, but it would be preferable to have those same ranges fall on us than to confront the wrath of the Lamb (Rev. 6:16). When the Throne appears, the sky and the sea and the islands and the fabric of all creation will flee away. But we, part of that creation, will not be able to flee away. We will all stand before the Throne of Christ, and there are only two ways to do it. We may stand there in Christ, or we may stand there Christless. And here is the grim aspect of the message — Christless now, Christless then. Here is the glorious side of it — Christ is offered to you now.
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad” (2 Cor. 5:10).
The last glimpse of judgment has to do with the shape of damnation, which batters us into an ultimate and inchoate shapelessness. Sin turns us increasingly into malicious biters, but curved in upon ourselves, and there in the outer darkness there is nothing to bite but your own forearm. The process of sinning without repentance represents the ultimate gollumization of the human soul. Damnation is eternal, not because God has lost all sense of proportion, but rather because the damned have lost all sense of proportion, and would rather gnaw endlessly on their tongues than to say the words I repent with those same tongues. The road to damnation is the process of turning into that kind of being.
Milton’s Satan would rather rule in Hell than serve in Heaven, but that is not the actual choice. The true choice is between serving lunatic lusts in Hell as opposed to serving the source of all gladness in Heaven. That choice can be made, and has been many times, but not by a creature not already gibbering in principle.
And that is what we are manifestly becoming. We don’t have to wait for the end of the process to arrive to see it unfolding now. We have sinned ourselves into a blank Darwinian godlessness, and so we struggle under equal measures of guilt and meaninglessness. Because we are guilty, down to the foundations, we must have righteousness. But because we are the end product of time and chance acting on matter, we cannot have righteousness. We make shift with arbitrary and socially designated standards of righteousness which are extraordinarily brittle, and which results in zero tolerance for anyone who would dare to question our ability to hang them up in midair like that. And so it is that our public definition of moral probity has gotten to the point where it consists of whatever we decide to screech at the heretics — with heresy defined as anything that doesn’t double down on the damnation.
So that is where we must look for our warnings. We must look at the solemn declarations of Scripture, we must look at the terrifying judgments of human history, and we must look in the mirror.
Not as good as Edward’s “Sinners in the Hands of Angry God” but still pretty good. The mercy of God grows ever sweeter with each passing year as I become more fully aware of the entrenched nature of my sin.
Before I did commercial fishing, I was told that if you where grabbed by a shark to poke it in the eye and it would let go. I worked for a bit on a long-liner and we would haul the fish in by hand. Often there where massive 800 pound sharks on the hooks; the things where almost as wide as I was tall. A man stood no chance against a thing and the idea of poking it in the eye disappeared like a wisp of smoke. There is a certain quality about being in the presence of a thing… Read more »
Atrocious. Clearly, this was another post directed primarily at gays .. But who else is going into this eternal oven only to burn and writhe in these flames for the pleasure of God and His Elect? a) Jews b) Mormons c) Catholics/Eastern Orthodox (?) d) Hindus e) Muslims (peaceful or otherwise) f) non-Trinitarian Christians g) anyone who engages in masturbation (depending on who you ask) h) fornicators i) anyone who utilizes artificial contraception (also depending on who you ask) j) anyone who votes Democrat k) anyone who votes for a politician who supports gay marriage or legal abortion l) anyone… Read more »
That fire the Apostle sees may very well be God Himeself. What worse torment for the reprobate can there be?
“Himeself?” /fatfinger
But who else is going into this eternal oven only to burn and writhe in these flames for the pleasure of God and His Elect? You are looking at it wrong. There is not a checklist of pass/fail items that is the gauge. There is no pleasure involved. Man by his very nature is at enmity with God. It is not God who hates us–and us includes everybody on the list that you presented–it is us who is at war with God. We call that enmity, sin. From sin, flow sins–the bad things we do because of who we are… Read more »
@James Bradshaw – We have offended God and do know it. That’s the point.
Mr. Wilson, where are you getting your info about the location of Sodom and Gomorrah?
I was thinking of myself as a Gollum like creature as I read your description with biter and such and then you coined Gollumization and I was undone. I have been following along for about six months now and I have to say that you are a true ranger in that you at first seem foul but you are truly fair. Very well done indeed and I agree that perhaps no other message can now reach us.
Seth, this will sound lame . . . but I forget.
So was Jesus speaking figuratively when he said we should pluck our own eye out if it offends us? If so, did he really mean both eyes? If not, how many “Christians” do you know of that have applied this literally? I know of zero. Your use of the parable about Lazarus as an example is not biblically sound either. In both the OT and NT there are passages illustrating that when we die we are asleep. Nothing else. Matter of fact after this parable Jesus speaks od David being asleep in Abrahams bosom. Last thing, you surely believe in… Read more »
James, just so you know, the Democratic Party planks include abortion, better known as baby murder. So yes, if you vote Democratic you are voting against Biblical values and are voting to kill babies. I am pretty sure that God doesn’t approve of that action. The Bible is extremely clear that if you call upon Jesus you will be saved. There are no other qualifications required and there is no presumption. The only way you can offend God and not know it is if you have hardened your heart — and even then you know that you are running from… Read more »
Doug, this the best thing I’ve read of yours, up there with Lewis.
It seems to me there are only two states in Hell: self pity (weeping) and impotent rage at God. (gnashing of teeth)
Seth, at the time of Sodom and Gomorrah there was a valley and no sea. And all these joined forces in the Valley of Siddim (that is, the Salt Sea) (Gen 14:3). The cities were on the plain adjacent to (east of) this valley. The size of the Dead Sea is dependent on the water in it and it can spread quite far south though I believe due to mining salt it is currently has a smaller surface area. The deep part of the sea is north and presumably overlies the previous valley (of Siddim). It is hard to know… Read more »
Timothy, I’m not suggesting guilt is a bad thing, but to suggest we should be wracked with guilt morning, noon and night without a clear sense of what we’ve done wrong seems to be a recipe for insanity. Here’s the problem: Scripture is not really clear on all ethical issues. Pastor Wilson seems to believe that our nation’s early Christians could own others and restrict their very freedoms that they themselves took for granted ..and do so in good conscience. I don’t. How is this loving one’s neighbor as oneself? Now I’m not condemning anyone here. My point is that… Read more »
Hi James Timothy, I’m not suggesting guilt is a bad thing, but to suggest we should be wracked with guilt morning, noon and night without a clear sense of what we’ve done wrong seems to be a recipe for insanity. Yes. It is a terrible way to live. Here’s the problem: Scripture is not really clear on all ethical issues. I agree. We do see clear divides among Christians. There are also very smart, upstanding secular citizens who provide plausible alternatives to Christianity. In the pop-poly-sci term of the day, “why should Christianity be privileged?” is a very sensible question… Read more »
This post doesn’t get at the fundamental question these days, which is that if there is a place of eternal torment called Hell, then it must have been created by God, and why do that? This has caused people to variously declare that Hell is the mere absence of God’s presence, or that there is no eternal torment but rather just oblivion. The comparison with e.g. Sodom and Gomorrah doesn’t help, because those two places were destroyed. They weren’t cursed to some kind of quasi-promethean punishment whereby the fire burns them forever and ever. Of course the flip side is… Read more »
This post doesn’t get at the fundamental question these days, which is that if there is a place of eternal torment called Hell, then it must have been created by God, and why do that? Think about it. Let’s start with the distinction between ‘forever’ and ‘eternal’. Forever means throughout all time–from the beginning of time til the end of time. Eternal is outside time–that is where God is. I am borrowing from C.S. Lewis here. Imagine you hold a football in your hands. At your left hand is one end and the right hand the other end. Now, imagine… Read more »
James Bradshaw, all your posts seem to demonstrate a rather extreme confusion about what the gospel even is. It is impossible to get to heaven by obeying the law of God. You don’t get eternal life by living a life of good conscience. If any of the people that you mentioned wind up in hell, it is because they did not satisfy the condition of believing upon Christ for forgiveness. Romans 3:23-24 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God, being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. John 3:14-15… Read more »
@timothy. “There is a certain quality about being in the presence of a thing that completely out-classes a man that changes him and renders him silent.” Thank you for that. I have felt it many times. A starry night, or a mountain range. But there is something about the ocean that bring a sense of helplessness to a man’s heart. It’s like when you are swimming out and you are past the point of touching the bottom and you see a gigantic wave coming and you know there is absolutely nothing you can do to change what’s about to happen… Read more »
“…we are fastidious about hellfire. We think that this kind of old school conversion is beneath us. In actual fact, it is rapidly becoming the only thing that still might reach us. True. However, what we usually find today is that most people think the very thought of eternal punishment is beneath God Himself. “God is love” – so He certainly could not abide everlasting suffering – even less would He commit to actively torturing people forever, right? This is, I believe, the apologetic roadblock that Christians have to get through in our day. Jonathan Edwards’ most effectual sermon, in… Read more »
Apologies for the excessive boldface above. Forgot to undo, evidently.
Denny Burk has a nice blog post on Hell and the struggles he had with it. I particularly liked this observation that “the heinousness of sin is not measured by the sin itself but by the value of the one being sinned against. ” “If you were to discover a little boy pulling the legs off of a grasshopper, you would think it strange and perhaps a little bizarre. If the same little boy were pulling the legs off of a frog, that would be a bit more disturbing. If it were a bird, you would probably scold him and… Read more »
James,most of your list is spot on. You forgot to add murderers on the list. Thing is, Doug doesn’t want any of these folks to go to Hell. That is a big part of why this blog exists.
You forgot to add Wiccans and Scientologists to the lst
Let me rephrase: one cannot repent of actions that one is not aware are offensive to God. One cannot repent of beliefs about God that one really believes are correct. My assertion is that most, if not all, people die in a state of unrepentant sin or heresy to one degree or another. All. That is unless wishes to claim that true Christians reach a state of blameless perfection.
David: the child analogy is a bad one. One can witness the harm done by mutilating a child with one’s own eyes. How is harm inflicted on a self-sufficient and all powerful entity by having wrong beliefs about Him or divorcing one’s spouse for the “wrong” reasons (which some fundamentalists famtastically include abuse)?
Such actions are not done with the intent of even causing harm, were it even possible to do so, yet they merit eternal and unimaginable torture?
Let me rephrase: one cannot repent of actions that one is not aware are offensive to God. One cannot repent of beliefs about God that one really believes are correct. My assertion is that most, if not all, people die in a state of unrepentant sin or heresy to one degree or another. All. That is unless wishes to claim that true Christians reach a state of blameless perfection. And your point is? I congratulate you on noticing that human beings are not omniscient, and that none of them are perfect as God is perfect. That is good. A lot… Read more »
Matt, you said:
and:
Sounds as though you have set yourself up as God’s judge, …and that you have found Him morally lacking.
Seems like a kind of dangerous place to be, but maybe its just me.
Maybe it’s better to think of that as me answering my own question. Creating a place of eternal torment seems a bit much, but then God does seem to be a fan of disproportionate responses.
Timothy, I appreciate you indulging my questions, but it appears I need to be still more direct. – If a Christian who truly believes in Christ as savior and is theologically very orthodox doesn’t believe that masturbation is a sin, will they be condemned if it turns out that it is, in fact, sinful given the fact they have not repented of this? So okay, replace masturbation with any other type of activity: contraception, going to a nude beach or spa, drinking moderate amounts of alcohol, playing cards, dancing … I don’t know … the question remains the same. On… Read more »
St Lee writes: “Sounds as though you have set yourself up as God’s judge, …and that you have found Him morally lacking.” If someone came to you with a leather-bound book, claiming that its source was divine, and that this book recommended eating one’s offspring, having as much sex with prostitutes as one could find and drinking the blood (or other fluids) of corpses …. would you say that the claims of divinity could not *possibly* be true or that they would have to be true merely by virtue of the fact that the claims were made at all? See,… Read more »
@James – if a Christian is truly saved, then there is nothing that he can do to lose that salvation. We are saved by faith and not by works, so there is nothing we can do to earn salvation. On the flipside, once saved you can do nothing to lose that salvation. The Galatians were struggling with this very thing. They were being told a false gospel, that justification was still via the Law, even though they were saved. That their justification was still dependent on works of the Law. Paul admonishes them and says how can you be justified… Read more »
Hi James. Good questions. Salvation is by God’s grace alone. God’s justice is satisfied by the death and resurrection of Christ. In essence God paid the price and did the thing that man would not and could not do. We need only accept His gift to us in our hearts. To use my shark analogy, Christ fed the shark with His life so that I might live. (its not a perfect analogy, but it will do for now) Regarding your second question will they be condemned if it turns out that it is, in fact, sinful given the fact they… Read more »
James writes: “See, I think that most believers uphold the divinity of the Bible not because of evidence but because it appeals to the sense of values they already have in some fashion (and after some interpretative license). That is, they have sat in judgment on Scripture and found it acceptable.” Of course that is exactly the opposite of the truth. See, that’s what separates Christians from non. The Christian starts with the Bible and then tries to base his moral values on it. Others toss the Bible in the trash when they find that it does not conform to… Read more »
Timothy, I have trouble with this part of Reformed theology. I don’t mean to sound disrespectful, but sometimes it strikes me as playing with words. I understand the position that people will go on sinning after being justified by faith and that no subsequent sin can jeopardize their salvation. But consider Ted Bundy, who apparently told people he was born again before he committed the murders. The only way to make that reasonable (assuming, for the sake of argument, that there was no subsequent repentance) is to claim that he must have been deluded in his belief he had been… Read more »
St Lee writes: ” The Christian starts with the Bible and then tries to base his moral values on it”
Are you saying that upon hearing that the Bible was the divine word of the Creator of the Universe, you chose to accept it without even knowing what the book even said?
I find that astounding. Is it because you trusted the people who told you this?
Or did you evaluate its claims first before coming to the conclusion that it was divine?
I’m not being sarcastic … I’m actually curious.
Why, asks James Bradshaw, do Christians trust the Bible? I trust it because I see no better alternative. Given the goodness of Jesus, I admit I’m not looking very hard, but I have looked around. (Like Oliver North, I read the Bible and Times to see what both sides are thinking.) Christ died for the sins of his people–I did wrong and he took care of it. Why look for more love? Most people, including most system leaders–Marx, Rand, Mohammed, Buddha, Gandhi–just die, with no special benefits from their death. And then they stay dead; Jesus didn’t. They’re great men… Read more »
James, That certainly wasn’t the case for me. I regarded Biblical morality, and specifically Biblical sexual morality, self-evidently ridiculous from my early teens to my mid twenties until God just opened my eyes at the age of 24.
@James, “Why do Christians believe the Bible” I think that might be one of the best questions to ask Christians. Because objectively the Bible is the foundation of Christianity. It is God’s ordained means of us getting to know him better. What I think you don’t understand is the nature of faith. When you ask “Why do you believe the Bible?” and I respond with “Because of my Faith”. If your understanding of faith isn’t correct, then you could say “But Muslims and Hindus believe they are right too”. So let me attempt to give a short definition of faith… Read more »
@J: Thoughtful post. I’m completely on board here. Another aspect that may come into play is the mistaken idea that we are ultimately called to adhere to a list of do’s and dont’s. I believe it is important to note that our allegiance is not to a creed or a value system. Our allegiance is, and must be, to Christ. Oswald Chambers states it much better than I ever could. “The motive of a disciple is to be well-pleasing to God. The true blessedness of the saint is in determinedly making and keeping God first. Herein lies the disproportion between… Read more »
Hi Jill I am just a rookie, so this is just my take. Any elders who see a mistake in my theology, please jump in and deliver a correction. I don’t mean to sound disrespectful, You are not disrespectful at all, please put that thought aside. I understand the position that people will go on sinning after being justified by faith and that no subsequent sin can jeopardize their salvation. I want to make sure we are on the same page on this before continuing. This is my thought process on the sufficiency of Christ’s atonement for all sins. Let’s… Read more »
Hi James. Are you saying that upon hearing that the Bible was the divine word of the Creator of the Universe, you chose to accept it without even knowing what the book even said? The Holy Spirit reaches out to individuals in His way. Sometimes the Bible is not a part of their lives until after the fact. Some examples: C.S. Lewis ended up rejecting his materialism because of his struggles with why moral questions even bothered him. He gives a good account of it in his book, Mere Christianity. (aside, as a primer on Christianity, every atheist should be… Read more »
James, you said: Are you saying that upon hearing that the Bible was the divine word of the Creator of the Universe, you chose to accept it without even knowing what the book even said? I apologize for not being more clear. When I said “the Christian starts with the Bible and then tries to base his moral values on it” I probably could have better stated it by saying once a person becomes a Christian he tries to base his moral values on the Bible. Obviously one must be at least somewhat familiar with the Bible or teaching from… Read more »
Timothy, I am very well familiar with CS Lewis (as well as Thomas Merton, Spurgeon, Calvin, Aquinas and Barth whose book on Romans I just finished). I don’t recall implying I was atheist. I just reject the notion of Biblical inerrancy and narrow Biblical fundamentalism. “Well, you’re just making God in your own image”. I have my own ideas of what He is … understanding that ultimately I don’t know for certain. I can’t “know”. I can only speculate and hope. Even if I embraced the inerrancy of Scripture, though, I’m not guaranteed an infallible understanding of who God is… Read more »
Matt wrote: “This post doesn’t get at the fundamental question these days, which is that if there is a place of eternal torment called Hell, then it must have been created by God, and why do that?” One of the foundational questions of our existence is whether our lives have any relevance or meaning. Does it really matter what we believe or do? Are we just inconsequential fizzing, and does anyone or anything take us seriously? For the godless materialist, the universe is a meaningless accident, so whatever they do or believe in this life is equally pointless and meaningless.… Read more »
Hi James.
Good to know, I will remember that going forward.
Inerrancy is a big topic. My views on it are not relevant to the discussion and are probably quite sophomoric.
God Bless.
t
Timothy, thank you so much. I loved your analogies, and your explanation was really helpful. I think you might have a gift for apologetics!
Hi Jill, Thank you for the kind words, but it is not my calling to be a bible scholar–just a layman. I forgot to mention that scripture tells us of one sin that is not pardonable–to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit. [Mk. 3:29; Mt. 12:32; Lk. 12:10] I have not thought through what it means or its context, so my thoughts on the subject are conjecture. Questions I would ask myself might include: 1. does this apply only to the unsaved who reject the overtures of the Holy Spirit? 2. if it applies to saved men and women, are there… Read more »
timothy, Just a few random thoughts: The calling of God is irrevocable. Those who have died in Christ have been absolved: “Colossians 2:13-14 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. ” The “golden chain” cannot be broken: Romans 8:29-30 “For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order… Read more »