Justification and the Violent Left

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The recent shooting of Rep. Scalise has brought the old complaint about double standards to the surface again. Absolutely everyone knows that if the shooter had been a Tea Party guy, and if the baseball team in question had been the Democrats, the pieces would still be falling out of the sky. Something really is going on here, but it is not as simple as some want to make it.

The issue is not whether both sides have nutcases. The issue is not whether you can find Twitter feeds on both right and left that are filled to overflowing with vitriolic and violent language. That is granted, and is not the issue. There are people who want to shoot conservatives and there are people who want to shoot abortionists. There are unhinged people out on all the edges.

So if that is the case, then why the claim about double standards? Why do I say, as the saying goes, that if it weren’t for double standards, the left would have no standards at all?

It goes like this. On the left, almost all the extremists are able to function as members of a justified class, and I am using this word in its theological sense. There are exceptions (and this baseball game shooter appears to be one), but there is an array of people given to violence who are justified by their central authorities. And people on the edges who are justified by people at the center are no longer at the edges.

All the leaders of the conservatives provide no justification whatever to hard right extremists. They denounce them early and often. They denounce all of them, front to back, and side to side. Conservative leaders are even required to participate in ritual denunciations of things their tribe did 150 years ago. In the main this is actually a good thing (people fighting for fixed moral standards should live up to them), but it will become decreasingly a good thing as the definitions of extremism that are being cooked up and crammed down our throats by the left become increasingly bizarre. Outlaw normalcy!

So the issue is not whether you can find a bad actor on the right and then another bad actor on the left. And the issue is not how bad they might get. We should rather compare the left and right on this issue by looking at how much violence is approved by its respective center. And this is where comparative thought experiments come in handy. We know that Kathy Griffin was surprised by the negative reaction she got, but if, say, Dennis Miller had done a photo shoot with a severed head of Obama, we all know that the rest of his life would be something that only Salman Rushdie could identify with. The left was quick to blame Sarah Palin for helping to create the “climate of hate” that contributed to Rep. Giffords getting shot. She had used a “targeting” metaphor with regard to congressional races, and without any evidence that the shooter knew anything about her metaphors, the conclusion was reached that Palin had something to do with the harm done to Giffords. And then here, we have someone who had stopped just short of having “I love Bernie” on his forehead, we are all officially mystified as to what made him snap. His actions were rightly condemned, but where did that climate of hate go? It was here a minute ago.

The forefront of the justified classes on the left include, but are not limited to, activists, artists, college students, protesters, organizers, and youths. The issue is how much violent behavior gets a free pass, how much of it is not denounced by the leaders of the faction that benefits from the agitation. Smashing windows and burning cars is euphemistically called “protesting,” just so long as the bricks are being thrown by a left hand. From Berkeley to Baltimore, from Ferguson to Oakland, from Evergreen to Middlebury, the left is largely free to resort to violence.

The violence will be denounced if someone gets out too far out over their skis, as the baseball shooter did. But there is still a large amount of tolerated violence going on constantly in the background. That violence is not being denounced in the same way, and why? Because it is being used. It is one of their chess pieces on the board, one they use a lot.

And the only other kind of violence that is sure to be denounced will be when middle America (fairly well armed, come to think of it) starts to fight back. I hesitate before leaving this point in my post here because people always think I am wishing for that kind of reaction, or somehow threatening it. Not at all. But whether I want it to or not, whether I am wishing for it or not, the reaction is already underway.

 

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ron
ron
6 years ago

The violence is perhaps quietly denounced once someone gets out over their skis, but until then, the leadership on the side of non-traditional American values actively encourages “euphemistic” (charitably) violence. See Hillary’s “DeplorableS” comment (meant to dehumanize and thereby justify violence) http://tinyurl.com/yd64fofz http://tinyurl.com/ybuml3zm http://tinyurl.com/y8f4odr4 Then there’s the entertainment class…http://tinyurl.com/y6u2kdvp The last link in the OP is disturbing. While I appreciate the frustration of those who have witnessed the death of American morality in recent decades, and empathize that our good manners / restraint is being used against us on a daily basis, following the crowd in the descent of public… Read more »

ron
ron
6 years ago
Reply to  ron

To the last link of Pastor Wilson’s article: The New York Times and CNN’s parent company Time Warner are standing by their sponsorship of a play that depicts the brutal assassination of President Donald Trump, raising the question of whether the news reporting outlets should retain their credentials to cover and have access to President Trump. Delta Airlines and Bank of America have reportedly dropped their support for the play in the wake of public outrage over the play’s depiction of Trump’s assassination. On Friday night the two conservative activists interrupted the play. Laura Loomer and Jack Posobiec interrupted the… Read more »

DanL
DanL
6 years ago

Okay, Pastor Wilson, but here’s the deal: I have seen numerous comments by people who say the baseball shooter’s actions are understandable given the “climate of hate” Trump himself has created. There have been comments that the people shot were “reaping what they have sown.” (An enormous irony given the source of that phrase.) Victim blaming, in fact, victim-shaming is rampant. If you ask these people if they therefore believe the shooter was justified in his actions and they therefore condone this behavior, they go absolutely silent on the issue. There is a festering, virulent hate out there and they… Read more »

MeMe
6 years ago

It’s a good post. Here is my disagreement, fair or unfair, I hold the right to a higher standard, especially the Christian right. We are the ones charged with preserving a set of values. It is one thing to parade around with a fake severed head. It is a whole other thing to claim Jesus Christ’s name and to proclaim He approves of your fake severed head. We wear His uniform, that should not be taken lightly. Say what you will about the Left, not one of them has ever been so bold or so foolish as to claim their… Read more »

FeatherBlade
FeatherBlade
6 years ago
Reply to  MeMe

That realm belongs exclusively to the white supremists, the real ones, and the Jew haters, and a whole slew of alt-Christianity practitioners. Telling people “hatred is a Christian virtue,” is whole different thing than telling people, “I’m a washed up aging comedian with some mental health issues.”

You’re replying on this blog to positions stated on a completely different blog not associated with this blog. Again.

Why do you do that?

MeMe
6 years ago
Reply to  FeatherBlade

I do that because there is symbiosis going on between the left and the right,cause and effect, and because violence begets violence. So, people may not wish to admit it, but there are people on the right instigating hatred and provoking a response from the left because they wish to provoke a confrontation in the hopes of destabalizing Western civilization.

Peter Oliver
Peter Oliver
6 years ago
Reply to  MeMe

If you love something, you will hate anything that threatens it. Shepherds hate wolves because they love sheep. Hatred (of the proper subjects) is a Christian duty. Read Perelandra.

MeMe
6 years ago
Reply to  Peter Oliver

No, you will not hate. In fact, hatred drains you of energy. So a shepherd who hates is only able to protect sheep with half his strength. In order to think clearly and fight smart, we have to let go of hatred and even pf anger, when it’s the kind of anger that leads us to make foolish mistakes.

drewnchick
drewnchick
6 years ago
Reply to  MeMe

ME, this literally makes no sense. There IS such a thing a righteous anger. Even God exhibits anger upon mankind, and yes, the Father poured out His WRATH on Jesus. We are called to hate…the right things and for the right reasons. Not saying this is an easy concept to understand or do, but it’s there in Scripture and cannot be avoided without falling into errors like, “hatred drains you of energy.” Now…that aside, I think there is a VERY common conflation going on here: our Christian duty to our fellow man is getting all mixed up with our American… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
6 years ago
Reply to  drewnchick

To be clear, the Bible never actually says that God poured out his wrath on Jesus.

That’s the way some people interpret Old Testament prophecy, but I don’t believe any of those who knew Christ or his Crucifixion ever make that claim.

Trey Mays
Trey Mays
6 years ago

Doug,

I have to take issue with an implication you made in your seventh paragraph. You essentially blamed violence on left-handers and implied that we euphemistically call it “protesting.”

Trey

P.S. I am somewhat being sarcastic and cheeky.

Jill Smith
Jill Smith
6 years ago

Did leading conservatives denounce Ted Nugent’s remarks about Obama? Like the ones where he called Obama a chimpanzee and a subhuman mongrel? Or the comments that led to his being investigated by the Secret Service? I know that Trump had no problem with his remarks as Nugent was his honored guest in the Oval Office early in his presidency.

I think it is very easy to overlook hateful speech from those whose views we find more congenial.

adad0
adad0
6 years ago
Reply to  Jill Smith

Jilly, I think that before there was “hate speech” there was “dumb speech”.
Both modes of speech have a lot in common, and are the exclusive domain of human beings! ????

One issue with “dumb speech” and “hate speech” is that there is no statute of limitations on either of them. They can always be dredged up as ridicule.

For the record, Ted and Barak have both said a bunch of stupid things. I’d actually like to see them have an excellent adventure together! That would be a great live stream!????????

Jill Smith
Jill Smith
6 years ago
Reply to  adad0

That’s all very true, A Dad, but we can’t decide it’s merely “dumb” when our guys say it but it’s “hate” when the other side says it.

adad0
adad0
6 years ago
Reply to  Jill Smith

Hate is the new dumb! ????

bethyada
bethyada
6 years ago
Reply to  Jill Smith

Jill, he is talking about physical violence not speech. Although our speech matters, a robust debate allows strong disagreement without violence.

Jill Smith
Jill Smith
6 years ago
Reply to  bethyada

No because he was also discussing the climate of hate that produces violence. I mentioned Nugent because Wilson asked us to suppose what would have happened to Dennis Miller if he had been as hateful, with implied violence, as Kathy Griffin was. Nugent was equally appalling, and no one pulled a Salman Rushdie on him.

bethyada
bethyada
6 years ago
Reply to  Jill Smith

Griffin was implied violence as you say. That is the point. Calling someone a chimp is not implied violence.

Did Nugent also incite violence against Obama? I am not familiar with the case.

(I don’t automatically think violence is worse than speech in all circumstances, but I think Doug’s point remains)

Jill Smith
Jill Smith
6 years ago
Reply to  bethyada

Nugent: “Obama, he’s a piece of s—. I told him to suck on my machine gun,” Nugent said. “Hey, Hillary, you might want to ride one of these into the sunset, you worthless b—-.” Nugent was on stage at the time, dressed in full hunting gear, and brandishing two machine guns. He also told an NRA meeting: “If Barack Obama becomes the president in November again, I will either be dead or in jail by this time next year.” He also called for Obama to be lynched. I think his remarks are at least as likely to incite violence as… Read more »

bethyada
bethyada
6 years ago
Reply to  Jill Smith

Agree. That should have been denounced.

Oscar
Oscar
6 years ago
Reply to  Jill Smith

Can you show me video in which Trump supporters viciously attack Bernie or Hillary supporters during the election?

https://youtu.be/0t7PnrelFdY

Jill Smith
Jill Smith
6 years ago
Reply to  Oscar

I did but it seems to be held up in moderation. Maybe I included too many links!

Jane
Jane
6 years ago
Reply to  Jill Smith

It’s there now.

Oscar
Oscar
6 years ago
Reply to  Jill Smith

You’re helping prove my point, and you don’t even know it. You posted eight links, yet even adding them all together, they don’t even begin to compare to 1/100th of the violence that Democrats perpetrated at just one of the riots they staged at Trump rallies in 2016. On top of that, can you provide video evidence that Republican officials orchestrated any of that violence, as Robert Creamer did for the Democrats? https://youtu.be/5IuJGHuIkzY Can you provide video evidence of Republicans rioting when they lost to Obama? http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/11/us/oregon-protest-riot/index.html http://www.salon.com/2017/01/20/riots-break-out-among-protesters-in-washington-d-c-before-donald-trumps-inauguration/ Can you provide video evidence of conservative students rioting because of a… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
6 years ago
Reply to  Oscar

It’s ironic that you’re using a fraudulent video to try to prove that the other side is fraudulent. You do realize that the Wisconsin AG’s office aggressively investigated the Creamer videos and found…nothing. No voter fraud, no evidence of illegal activity, nothing. In the words of the Assistant A.G. who directed the investigation: ““Based on all the available facts I do not believe there is any basis to conclude that the videos demonstrate or suggest violations of Wisconsin criminal laws. The conversations remain best described as vague and theoretical in many respects. There are no clear or direct statements indicating… Read more »

Oscar
Oscar
6 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

“It’s ironic that you’re using a fraudulent video to try to prove that the other side is fraudulent.”

Where did I use the word “fraudulent”? Can you provide a quote?

Jonathan
Jonathan
6 years ago
Reply to  Oscar

Where did I say you used the word “fraudulent”?

Please, when you turn to word games the discussion quickly gets ridiculous. You accused Democrats of inventing fake hate crimes. And in the same comment, you cited as true a claim based solely on fraudulent video in which Republicans invented fake election crimes.

Claiming that someone invented something fake is another way of saying that they committed a fraud. Obscuring that with wordplay is a waste of time.

Cher
Cher
6 years ago
Reply to  Jill Smith

I don’t approve of Nugent’s remarks, but they’re not even remotely comparable to dozens of leftists (some in “respectable” publications) calling for Trump’s assassination.

Krychek_2
Krychek_2
6 years ago
Reply to  Cher

Are they comparable to Candidate Trump calling for Hillary Clinton’s assassination? If I recall correctly, his words were that there is a Second Amendment solution to the problem of Hillary Clinton. That certainly sounds like inciting violence to me.

In principle, I agree with much of what Doug says here, but I think he’s wrong on the facts. The loony right does just as much incitement to violence as the loony left. Sometimes the perpetrators get away with it, sometimes they don’t.

Oscar
Oscar
6 years ago
Reply to  Krychek_2

I’ll ask you the same questions I asked Jill. Did Republicans riot at Saders and Clinton rallies? Did Republicans riot when they lost to Obama? Did anyone record Republican election officials explaining on video how they coordinated at least some of that violence?

Krychek_2
Krychek_2
6 years ago
Reply to  Oscar

I don’t recall those “riots” being violent, though there may have been some here and there. They were loud, they were noisy and they were rude, but I don’t recall any actual violence. I do recall both Clinton and Obama allowing hecklers the opportunity to speak, and interacting with them, unlike Trump who had them ejected. I also recall Trump security choking a reporter, I don’t remember that happening at any Democratic rallies. And I believe Trump is currently being sued for inciting violence at his rallies. And finally, there would have been less call for Republicans to reject the… Read more »

drewnchick
drewnchick
6 years ago
Reply to  Krychek_2

The faster you (and millions of other voters) finally understand that you DON’T actually vote for the President (and NEVER HAVE), the sooner you’ll realize that all your rants about “unfairness” and “stolen elections” are baseless, vacuous, and pointless…except that they are most probably designed to foment restlessness and discontent.

Oscar
Oscar
6 years ago
Reply to  Krychek_2

Seriously? You “don’t recall those ‘riots’ being violent”? You “don’t recall any actual violence”? Seriously?

https://youtu.be/0t7PnrelFdY

Bro. Steve
Bro. Steve
6 years ago

Here’s the social conundrum: the right has standards that originate in the Bible. When we violate them, they point out that we’re in conflict with the Ultimate Source.

But the left has no Ultimate Source. Hence, no bona fide standards. You can never pin them down because there’s nothing behind them to pin them TO.

Eric Clark
Eric Clark
6 years ago
Reply to  Bro. Steve

I think we should be careful to not make the mistake of assuming that all on the right are theistic people who have based their ethics and politics on the Bible, and we should not also not assume that all on the left are atheists who have no interest in what God has to say about human behavior. There are conservative atheists and liberal evangelicals. I as a liberal Christian would very much appreciate if folks would stop assuming that my faith is fake or invalid or non-existent just because my faith has led me to take some political stances… Read more »

urawizaardharry
urawizaardharry
6 years ago
Reply to  Eric Clark

Your faith certainly isn’t fake by default just because of your leftism (Lord knows where I come from, Christians are divided more or less evenly among the left and right). But that hardly means we need to acknowledge that your political views are valid or reasonable. They’re not. Change.

MeMe
6 years ago
Reply to  Bro. Steve

“When we violate them, they point out that we’re in conflict with the Ultimate Source.”

Yes, precisely! So how do we combat that?

adad0
adad0
6 years ago
Reply to  Bro. Steve

The left is under the same Godly standard as anyone else, and that can always be pointed out.
After that, point out that Marxist, Leninist Maoist standards have the highest modern body count.
Then point out that the left is fortunate that they are not treated to leftist standards by the right!????

Dave W
Dave W
6 years ago

So a guy walks into a room and pulls a living baby to pieces and throws the pieces into a trash bag. Then another guy walks in and shoots the first guy. Please tell me again which one of them is unhinged? I find it far more persuasive that those who have no impulse whatsoever to shoot the abortionist perhaps are lacking a soul.

MeMe
6 years ago
Reply to  Dave W

You don’t prove you have a soul by shooting someone in an act of terrorism. To attempt to wrap such a thing in virtue and rational-lies it is the very nature of the problem in the first place.

Jill Smith
Jill Smith
6 years ago
Reply to  Dave W

Assuming we’re talking about a born baby, I think it is okay to shoot the guy in order to save the child. But not in retribution, however much we may want to.

Pastor Wilson has explained why we can’t use force at an abortion clinic. I accept that, but I don’t really understand.

wtrsims
wtrsims
6 years ago
Reply to  Jill Smith

You can’t use violence at an abortion clinic until the government agrees with you. I think it would be pretty simple to form a moral argument for shooting an abortion doctor provided the government agreed with you that abortion doctors should be shot. The Left probably feels similarly about Republican politicians who try (or lie about trying) to undo the ACA. It seems that the Left grasps this much better than Red State conservatives who think that denouncing the alt-right will exclude them from attacks from the left and being called hateful bigots–and worse. The conservatives keep thinking the Left… Read more »

Daithi Dubh
Daithi Dubh
6 years ago

I sense something has irrevocably shifted, a tripwire’s been activated, and there’s no going back. A dynamic similar to the one following John Brown’s raid on Harper’s Ferry in 1859, wherein both parties felt there was no longer any room for both in the same union, seems to be in play, certainly not exactly, but sufficiently. Pastor Wilson’s link to the Townhall piece is apt. Regardless whether you or I approve if this or that individual’s use of words or not in response to a Lefty, really doesn’t matter. As another writer on another site noted, most on the Right,… Read more »

JohnM
JohnM
6 years ago

But how much does Kurt Schlichter really have to do with middle America?

MeMe
6 years ago
Reply to  JohnM

Good point. Most of the conservatives carrying on about “fighting back” will never get their hands dirty. Like most wars, most of the casualties are going to all be on the bottom of the food chain. These fools speak of “war” from the comfort of gated communities and it tends to make me not like the Kurt Schlichter’s of the world very much.

Matt
Matt
6 years ago

“Absolutely everyone knows that if the shooter had been a Tea Party guy, and if the baseball team in question had been the Democrats, the pieces would still be falling out of the sky. ” Well here you are, still posting on how liberals are crazy evil and supporting violence all over the place, linking to articles about how conservatives totally hate liberals and getting ready to fight back with their guns and “I’m not in favor of that or anything but LOL they kinda have it coming right?”, so can we say the “pieces are still falling out of… Read more »

Eliza Dushku
Eliza Dushku
6 years ago

My boyfriend cheated on me even in public places and when I try to let him see the implications of what he is doing he threatened break up with me. after some while, my boyfriend fell in love with another girl, i was so heart broken.. I was in PAINS.. physically hurts in the chest. emotionally distraught. wish there was a pill or shot to take that would make you feel all better..i contact Dr.mack in regard of getting my boyfriend back and Dr_mack@yahoo. com reunited i and my boyfriend together with his powers, OMG this is exactly how I… Read more »