Domestic Mussolinis

Sharing Options

This last October I put up a post called Bitterness and the Unsubmissive Wife. This generated some comment at the time, not to mention since then, and because there are some aspects of this that really are difficult for some to grasp, I thought I should make just a few more points about the whole issue.

1. One of the things I did was argue from Gen. 3:16 and Gen. 4:7, saying that the ongoing tension between the sexes was a result of the curse. The first misunderstanding to address is the idea that I am somehow saying that bitter unsubmissiveness is defined by disagreement with this exegesis. But these are entirely different things. A woman could disagree with my understanding of Gen. 3:16 and be the polar opposite of a bitter, unsubmissive wife — in short, a wonderful wife. Further, another woman could agree with my exegesis completely and still be a shrew. Now bitterness could certainly be displayed in how someone might disagree, but the disagreement itself need not be an attitude problem at all. When bitterness is a problem, it is primarily the result of not understanding your own heart properly — which is not the same thing as not understanding Gen. 3:16 properly.

2. For my second point, I need to first reiterate the qualifications I made in that post, make them yet again, and then move on to my new point. In that post, I made it clear that I was not trying to pave the way for any “domestic mussolinis” or “angry and abusive husbands.” I said this:

“So I am not at present talking about lousy marriages that are lousy because the husband is violent, or angry, or resentful, or lazy, or misogynistic, or unfaithful, and so on. I know that such exist, and I am unalterably opposed to every last one of them. I am especially opposed to them when the name of Jesus is invoked as an excuse for the sin.”

I have been doing marriage counseling for over three decades, and believe me, when it comes to misbehaving husbands, I have had a seat on the fifty yard line. The last thing I would ever do is try to pretend that husbands are not a driving force in all of this.

But here comes a new question. Why are such qualifications not heard?
One of the reasons such qualifications are not heard is that our generation has successfully politicized certain character flaws. In other words, character flaws now have a constituency, and any attack on the flaws directly is taken as an attack on the group most susceptible to them. But in the Scriptures, certain temptations go with certain groupings of people. Paul tells children to be obedient to their parents (Eph. 6:1-3), he tells older women to guard against drinking too much wine (Tit. 2:3), he tells husbands not to be harsh (Col. 3:19), and he tells wives not to be disrespectful (Eph. 5:33).

In doing this, he is not saying that an older woman can’t be harsh, or that a husband can’t be a drunk. He is simply generalizing, which in our hyper-sensitive age, you are not allowed to do. He even does this with ethnic groups. Cretans are evil beasts, lazy gluttons and liars. But this is not saying that Cretans have to be that way (he tells Titus to rebuke them sharply, so that they won’t be), and it doesn’t mean that Irishmen can’t be that way. But if we were in a situation where tensions were running high between Ireland and Crete, any criticism in either direction would tend to be heard in sweeping and universalizing ways. An overly sensitive hermeneutic therefore indicates the presence of other issues.

This same dynamic was in play, incidentally, in some of the responses to my recent post about Millennials. To say that Millennials are vulnerable to certain temptations is not to say that not one of them has ever resisted these temptations, or that other generations are not tempted by anything at all.

And so this indicates that when the statement “some wives sometimes fail in this way” is heard as “no husbands ever fail in other ways,” there is some kind of tension, or bitterness, or hostility somewhere.

3. So to come at the central point from another direction — both men and women are sinners. When men sin, they sin the way men do. When women sin, they sin the way women do. They sin, as they do everything else, in line with their general makeup and character. And one of the things that all sinners tend to do is try to create a situation where pointed identification of that sin is difficult, if not impossible. Sin always seeks to evade, or hide, or change the subject. When Jesus identified the sin of the woman at the well, all of a sudden she wanted to talk theology.

Now one of temptations that some men face is that of abdication. One of the temptations that some women face is that of usurpation — whether Gen. 3:16 is talking about that or not. When a wife is bitter, resentful, and hostile, and her husband is afraid to help her identify that problem, you have a bad situation. You do not have a universal situation, but you do have a bad one.

When a situation is not like this at all, I am delighted to acknowledge that it is not. I am not in need of additional intractable marital situations. I have plenty. I want the number of them to go down, not up. But if a husband and wife really are at odds, nothing is gained by pretending otherwise.

The way out of such tangles is always repentance, always turning to Jesus. He forgives every sin, and while we may identify sins by means of generalization, He always forgives them specifically.

Subscribe
Notify of
guest
36 Comments
Oldest
Newest
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Mark B. Hanson
Mark B. Hanson
10 years ago

“…character flaws now have a constituency…” That explains quite a bit about the world we live in. Thanks!

Ben Bowman
10 years ago

“He forgives them specifically” Amen to that! 

delurking
delurking
10 years ago

“When Jesus identified the sin of the woman at the well, all of a sudden she wanted to talk theology.”
And when Doug Wilson gets caught being nasty and bitter toward an entire generation, all of a sudden *he* wants to talk theology.

Jon
Jon
10 years ago

Cretans are lazy gluttons…I wonder why they were.  Perhaps island-life is very laid back.   And why were older women more prone to drinking too much wine?

St. Lee
10 years ago

Pastor Wilson, you said:

When men sin, they sin the way men do. When women sin, they sin the way women do.

Why do I suspect that you will get pushback on that benign statement to the effect of : “I am a woman and I take offence at that – I can sin any way a man can and maybe even more so.”  Or the inverse of that.

Eric Stampher
Eric Stampher
10 years ago

Chiasms maybe crossed incorrectly on that Gen 3:16 exegesis?  To be clear, you are not saying that Gen 3:16 itself talks about a woman’s desire for control, are you?  Seems like maybe a conflation of 4:7 (where the adoring Private First-Class Sin will meet his General Cain), over against 3:16 where adoring Eve-Church is promised her saving Czar Adam-Jesus.  I.e., 3:16b is a new covenant promise, not curse.

Bryan Hangartner
Bryan Hangartner
10 years ago

Delurking, give it a rest! You think Doug’s perfectly valid critique of a significant percentage of the millenial generation is “nasty and bitter”, and that he’s “talking theology” as a way of trying to excuse himself to the likes of you?!?!? God forbid that your arrogance be gratified! My fiancee and I are millenials and we groan wholeheartedly along with Doug at our generation’s disgusting entitlement mentality, shameful lack of work ethic, and senseless Marxist inclinations. All the whining excuse-makers like you are the problem here!

BJ
BJ
10 years ago

Pastor Wilson, Two things: (1) My criticism of your post about millenials (that it was the logical fallacy of false generalization) was also rooted in (confession time…) my fatigue at hearing about how bad my generation is. So you are right. There was, “some kind of tension, or bitterness, or hostility somewhere.” I admit the deed, as Poe wrote. I also admit that gerenalizations can be useful at times, but they can also be bad at times. My problem with them is that they tend to foster wrongheaded attitudes toward me and my fellow reformed, clear thinking, hard working, unentitled comrades,… Read more »

BJ
BJ
10 years ago

Bryan Hangartner,   I would like to know how you could possibly prove that (in your words), “a significant percentage of the millennial generation” falls into the category of Doug’s criticisms. Do you have stats? Is there a study to which you can point? You might be right, but there is no good way to prove this that I have seen. Saying it does not make it true. Perhaps you have some anecdotal evidence of (in your words) “our generation’s disgusting entitlement mentality, shameful lack of work ethic, and senseless Marxist inclinations,” but there is no way you can legitimately… Read more »

carole
carole
10 years ago

BJ, I was thinking along the same lines, that it sounded more like a critique of young people generally, but I do think there is a huge underlying problem to all these similar problems, and btw you do not sound sexist at all.  It seems to me, that our feel good culture just wants everything to be easy and no one wants to be the bad guy…parents are afraid to discipline their children, Husbands are afraid to lead their wives, employers are afraid to fire their employees…no one is steering the ship, and the mess is obvious.  It isn’t supposed… Read more »

Bryan Hangartner
Bryan Hangartner
10 years ago

BJ, First, to clarify, I used the term “significant percentage” to justify Wilson’s stereotyping of our generation, not to indicate that a MAJORITY of millenials exhibit those stereotypes. Maybe it’s just because I’m from Portland, OR where Wilson’s stereotype seems validated around every corner, but we who are reformed and/or libertarian do not in any way seem to be numerically superior to our liberal peers. The fact that Obama carried 66% of the millenial vote in 2008 (http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/11/how-obama-lost-millennials/) is enough evidence to indicate to me that those millenials are either Marxist (likely not having a clue that they are, hence my use of the adjective “senseless”), or given over to the entitlement mentality… Read more »

Ellen of Tasmania
Ellen of Tasmania
10 years ago

Just wondering when it would be acceptable in today’s culture to use a generalisation. What percentage of any particular group would have to show the tendency, to what level, and with how much proof, before it was O.K. to generalise?

BJ
BJ
10 years ago

Bryan Hangartner, Thank you for taking the time to respond. You are correct that the type of study necessary to make a full proof case is not feasible. But I would say that what you gave me is plenty to justify saying what you did. I am sorry that you are justified, as I am sure you are as well. My anecdotal evidence is from Virginia Beach, VA where I did my initial lay-ministry. I do not know how many flags I saw that said, “Don’t tread on me.” That I think explains quite adequately our different emphases. So, I… Read more »

BJ
BJ
10 years ago

I am sorry. I meant to say Portland. Keep trucking up there in Portland.

Seneca Griggs
Seneca Griggs
10 years ago

Let’s face it; it is a “cluster-fark-nado” here on planet Earth.  We have sowed the wind; we reap the whirlwind.  God help us.

Matt
Matt
10 years ago

As BJ said, the problem with your Millenial post is that “Millenials” are too diverse and large a group to draw these generalizations about.  I find it odd that Millenials are accused of an “entitlement mentality”.  If you think about the main entitlements in society, SS and Medicare, it ain’t the Millenials driving the bus.  Maybe we can generalize Boomers as “utterly oblivious to their own faults as they bankrupt the nation”.  It also is bizarre to call a 66% voting rate for Obama in 2008 as evidence of “Marxism”.  In 2008 the Republicans had made themselves completely poisonous to… Read more »

Matt
Matt
10 years ago

To elaborate further, the generalization “black people tend to commit more crime” is a false one, even though you can produce statistics to support it.  This is because “black people” is too broad of a category.  Elderly black ladies are as unlikely to commit crime as elderly ladies of any other race.  The correct generalization is “Young black men from depressed urban environments tend to commit more crime”   In that way, you can draw a generalization like “White Millenial liberal arts graduates from middle to upper-middle class backgrounds tend to have an inflated sense of their own worth”.  

Matt
Matt
10 years ago

Generalizations about sex and behavior are generally safer, because women tend to behave like women and men like men.  Even then you have to define your category accurately.  Something like “Men tend to consider overt displays of emotion effeminate” is inaccurate; it’s only true of certain cultures and times.  So “American men tend to consider overt displays of emotion effeminate” is fine.  You should always keep this in mind, not because we don’t want to offend anyone, but rather because if you sloppily generalize no one listens to you and you sound like a prejudiced jerk.  This is especially true… Read more »

timothy
timothy
10 years ago

Matt
 
I like Pastor Wilson’s style much more than yours.  You may ‘summarily dismiss’ all you want, just like I have summarily dismissed your objections. Since you have summarily dismissed his arguments, why are you posting here?
 
 

Matt
Matt
10 years ago

Timothy, honestly baffled at your post.  Have no idea what you’re talking about.

timothy
timothy
10 years ago

Matt,
 
Your exhortation to embrace the permutations is self defeating for Christian ministry..
By using the language of the Left, the Christian is capitulating to the world. Let’s take a simple example–sex. And God created them male and female.
Your approach is to engage in the “diverse tapestry’ of  the LBGTQWTF variations on God’s design. My approach is not to engage it, but to destroy it. The sooner the better.
 
 
 
 

J
J
10 years ago

BJ – At this point I suppose the horse is dead, but that never stopped me switching from my boot to a bat. That said, I am also a millennial and I can understand (but do not agree with) where you are coming from. When talking about Doug’s generalizations you said this” My problem with them is that they tend to foster wrongheaded attitudes toward me and my fellow reformed, clear thinking, hard working, unentitled comrades, when those same attitudes could be hoisted upon people of older generations before they became fellow reformed, clear thinking, hard working, unentitled comrades.”. Here is my issue… Read more »

J
J
10 years ago

BJ – One more thing…. you said “It is easier to say, “Fine! I am out of here.” They save their own personal dignity. They save themselves social grief. Am I wrong here?  “Yes you are wrong there. Any man that would say such a thing is not a man, he is a boy. And in doing so he makes manifest the fact that he is a weak disobedient turd nugget. And rather than saving any dignity he had, he looses it all in an instant. So what if the world labels us as a tyrant when we are actually being a… Read more »

J
J
10 years ago

PPS – Bryan, I like your fire about the topic. I’m sure living in a city like that must be tough, but remember one thing when coming to conclusions. 83.465% of all statistics are made up.

Moor
Moor
10 years ago

Nothing like staying on topic…

Johnny
Johnny
10 years ago

Seems more like when the Samaritan woman was caught, she asked where to go sacrifice.

J
J
10 years ago

Moor – I know what you mean. However, Doug did reference the Millennial post in this one. The door wasn’t wide open, but it was sorta cracked a little bit. Give me an inch and I’ll take a mile :)

Bryan Hangartner
Bryan Hangartner
10 years ago

Matt, how could a 66% millenial vote for Obama NOT indicate a Marxist propensity amongst my generation? Obama promised (and is in the process of delivering) universal, government-run and mandatory health care for all U.S. citizens, free college education for all, a reduction in “income inequality” (necessarily through coercive means), a preference for minority-owned businesses in government-subsidized loans, etc., etc. I realize that few millenials would label themselves as Marxist, but the above “progressive” policy goals are the root and fruit of Marxist socialism. I believe that most who voted for Obama do not think of themselves as Marxists, but this proves merely that they are politically and historically ignorant,… Read more »

Bryan Hangartner
Bryan Hangartner
10 years ago

Maybe Portland needs a regiment of Virginia volunteers to set things straight up here . . . ?

timothy
timothy
10 years ago

“but remember one thing when coming to conclusions. 83.465% of all statistics are made up. “
 
That’s good!

BJ
BJ
10 years ago

Carole, Thanks for your repsponse. It is always interesting to get a female perspective………………. J, I admitted that there a bit of sensitivity involved, but I am working to try and change that stereotype. That is why I am commetting on a blog from someone whose perspective I respect. And I have no idea whether I am in the 15%, but I think that caveat can be tossed out because…something about stats being made up. To your point about weak disobedient turd nuggets, I’d like to whack-a-mole these knuckleheads back into the hole they tore in their family and make them patch it with cement mixed… Read more »

St. Lee
10 years ago

Well, looks as though my guess about the pushback on this post was all wet.  If I can make a generalization from that, it would be that there must be more Millennials who follow this blog than egalitarians :-)
                                                                                                                                                                         I think it would behoove those who seem to have such a distaste for anyone making generalizations about a specific generation to do a word search on “generation” to see how many times Jesus did that very thing.  Then ask yourself, are you offended when Jesus does it?

timothy
timothy
10 years ago

 
@Ellen of Tasmania wrote:
Just wondering when it would be acceptable in today’s culture to use a generalisation. What percentage of any particular group would have to show the tendency, to what level, and with how much proof, before it was O.K. to generalise?
 
 

 
Ellen, could you please be more specific. I am not sure if you are speaking in general about generalization, or if you are generally inclined to specificity when dealing with the generic
thx.
 
 

 
p.s. just kidding (;

Ellen of Tasmania
Ellen of Tasmania
10 years ago

Timothy – yeah, I think you understood what I meant.

timothy
timothy
10 years ago

Ellen thx.
 
I think it is right with them when we know longer think.  Have you read Lewis’ ‘The Abolition of Man’? The first lecture–‘Men Without Chests’ describes these people quite well. The Green Book of that lecture has become quite a success. My only quibble with Lewis is that they did not turn out to be “Men Without Chests’ but  ‘Boys In Onesies’.