No MSNBC Slow Jam

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This set of observations was offered by David Gushee, an ethicist of some note with Mercer University. Not only are the homosexual activists declaring a premature victory in the sexual culture wars, but they have also begun discussions on how much damage we Christians did in the course of the fighting, and have begun to muse about what reparations we must owe. But as far as paying reparations is concerned, and I speak here in what is almost certainly a metaphor, they can take my gun after I am dead and see what they can get for it on eBay.

Gushee laments all the damage we did by remaining faithful to a moral tradition grounded in nature, in the revealed will of God, and extending over thousands of years. And he says this because we hurt the feelings of people he confusedly identifies as the protagonists of the story.

Look at the points he makes about the damage we did. Stare at those points if need be. The first three consist of some variation of “Christians have become identified with.” I see. By whom? Right. The entire writing staff for Tokyo Rose think that we somehow crossed the line. The next three broadcasts are really going to be something. Prepare to be zinged!

Then his last two bullet points amounted to the same thing. Christians have alienated, Christians have contributed to the fears of, those who are completed muddled on what real alienation is, and what we should actually be afraid of. I always knew that victors wrote the history books, but it takes a postmodernist to write them beforehand. Or a postmillennialist.

The only alienation worth considering in this discussion is alienation from God, and we really ought to talk about it more, because it is the driver of homosexual lust. Fear is worth talking about as well, because when heaven and earth flee away from the judgment seat of Christ, so will all impudent Supreme Court justices gather up the skirts of their robes in order to not make it two steps. Woe to those, Scripture says, who frame mischief with a law.

Alienation is real. Fear is real. What is fake is the redirecting and repurposing of that alienation and fear — pretending that somehow those who love you enough to speak the truth are the haters, and those who despise you enough to lie to you about the state of your eternal soul are those driven by compassion.

Another name for real alienation is the outer darkness, and that is where all of this is going. The only sounds we are told about there are the cries of weeping, and the grinding of teeth. There will be no punditry, no editorials, no MSNBC slow jam, and no court of appeal. And the hardest thing about this state of everlasting alienation is that none of it will be an injustice. I don’t know why people talk about social justice so much. Hell is social justice. We need social mercy.

In the meantime, while the sun is still up and shining on us all, every lame attempt to get us to feel bad for having had the temerity to oppose the establishment of sexual dyslexia in the law will continue to find me unpersuaded. Sorry — girl on girl doesn’t spell anything. Neither does guy on guy.

The secularists have run out of stories. The only story that renews itself, taking many wonderful forms, is the story of the knight and the lady and the dragon. Two knights and a dragon doesn’t work. Neither can two ladies and a dragon. But notice how they always manage to keep the dragon . . .?

But to return to our initial point about how they have declared victory prematurely, I want to finish with an observation from Chesterton. He once said that a small taste of paradise on earth was to fight in a losing battle . . . and then not lose it. That’s where we are right now. Dragons are not easy to take down, and there is always a moment in the fight where it seems as though all is lost. But if you were trained by the right stories, you know the meaning of eucatastrophe.

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Jonathan
Jonathan
10 years ago

JPL gave the quote in a recent comment that “This generation of Christians, is responsible for this generation of non-Christians.”

I think that as Christians, we need to carefully reflect on what we have and haven’t done to lead to the current situation.

Or we could just keep doing the same thing, and screaming at the non-Christians, and wondering why they don’t change.

Robert
Robert
10 years ago

Children don’t need to be told stories of monsters to know they they exsist. They already know that monsters exist. They need to hear the stories so they know monsters can be destroyed.

Brian
Brian
10 years ago

Doug,

The link in your article to Gushee’s article is not working.
Here is one that works though:
http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/atheologies/7174/christians_v__gays__the_damage_done/

How do you come to be in the know on this stuff?
I’d because I’d like to know so that I can develop your methods/techniques (including efficient use of sources) for having a good radar in trying to stay on the alert.

Brian
Brian
10 years ago

Oops, the above meant to say: “I’m asking because I’d like to know….”

James Bradshaw
James Bradshaw
10 years ago

So Jesus can’t tolerate men kissing men. Here is what he CAN tolerate (if you believe Doug and the Bible): A) People buying and selling other human beings for profit. Pastor Wilson has written on some length regarding this. There is a “Biblical model” for slavery which describes how human trafficking can be done in a way that pleases God. B) Women being forced to stay with men who blacken their eyes and turn their faces into a bloody pulp. Jesus gives one “out” for divorce: screwing around on your spouse. Otherwise, you’re stuck unless you wish Him to burn… Read more »

Moor
Moor
10 years ago

Do Christians troll the atheist bloggers too? Is that, like, a thing?

On another note, I found a Thoreau quote while reading Civil Disobedience this week that seemed to sum up some of what Doug is talking about:

“A drab of state, a cloth-o’-silver slut,
To have her train borne up, and her soul trail in the dirt.”

Or, in the words of Jesus:

“What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul?”

RFB
RFB
10 years ago

Jonathan,

Do you consider “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.” or “Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.” to be “screaming”?

Kyle B
10 years ago

James Bradshaw,

Well, I say the morality of Scripture isn’t violent, misogynistic, and sadistic. Who’s right and why?

katecho
katecho
10 years ago

Jonathan likes his salt to be a little less salty.

Jonathan wrote:
“I think that as Christians, we need to carefully reflect on what we have and haven’t done to lead to the current situation.”

Indeed, but Doug has been calling for reflection and Christian repentance on this topic for years. For example, he has cited sins of omission and a resulting father hunger inside the Church as a contributing factor. This is a message that many Christians don’t want to hear, and it probably sounds like Doug is screaming at them. Perhaps conviction increases auditory sensitivity.

Michael Lynch
Michael Lynch
10 years ago

James, your argument is basically “Doug and the Bible says this, this and this, so we shouldn’t listen to them.” Well, you practice sodomy so why should we care what you have to say? What is your standard for right and wrong when you practice that which goes against nature? You have no standard.

Jonathan
Jonathan
10 years ago

RFB – no, I don’t count that as screaming, and I’ll also note that a whole string of actions involving nearly every one of us is included in that sentence. I think it be interesting for you to take every word spoken to a non-God-fearing (in claim) “sinner” in the New Testament, and see what ratio of them take the condemning tone as the point of entry. Katecho – no, I think the salt absolutely HAS to be salty, or it has lost its effectiveness. You miss that the whole point of that saying is that the salt needs to… Read more »

katecho
katecho
10 years ago

With the current shortage, it’s a curious sight to see James Bradshaw wasting all that ammo on his straw man targets. I’m not sure whether to discourage him or encourage him. Maybe it is useful to have him around as a testimony of the thoughtfulness of our opposition. Trayvon Martin’s friend has taught us, each time she takes the stand, there is a certain kind of prosecution witness that money can’t buy.

Dave Matre
Dave Matre
10 years ago

James,

Are you of the belief that the 13th amendment abolished all slavery in this country? If so, you need to read it again carefully.

RFB
RFB
10 years ago

Jonathan, In fraternity, I would say the following. Paul unabashedly spoke to those outside of the commonwealth: “Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”” “Commands” is quite salty these days, and probably was then as well. Their reaction: “some mocked”. God says that the the message of the cross stinks like death to those who are… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
10 years ago

Again, RFB, Paul stated that God commands ALL men to repent. I heartily agree with that. I think that there are many speakers who can make this kind of alter call with Godly love, and many audiences for which such a loving call to repentance reaches the heart. For example, Doug could here post about the tendency we all have towards fornication, the insidious ways in which we have all have given room in our hearts to one kind of lust or another, and the need for everyone one of us to repent of that. He could count himself as… Read more »

Mike Bull
10 years ago

“I always knew that victors wrote the history books, but it takes a postmodernist to write them beforehand. Or a postmillennialist.”

Pure gold.

Allen
Allen
10 years ago

It’s a good reminder that our current ruling culture is entirely postmil in its outlook; they just believe they can do all the work themselves.

David
10 years ago

Jonathan: Posts like this one — on hot-button cultural issues, especially so-called gay marriage — usually attract lots of attention, and lots of comments. But if you read this blog with any regularity, you’ll notice that Doug posts on a wide range of doctrinal and pastoral issues, covering a great variety of the sins we’ve invented and sought out. Most of these posts, judging from the scarcity of comments on them, attract comparatively little attention. But they’re there, an inescapable part of the record. If that doesn’t persuade you as to why there are so many posts like this on… Read more »

katecho
katecho
10 years ago

Jonathan wrote: “For example, Doug could here post about the tendency we all have towards fornication, the insidious ways in which we have all have given room in our hearts to one kind of lust or another, and the need for everyone one of us to repent of that. He could count himself as chief among such sinners, and make us believe it. How often have you seen that kind of post?” Quite often, in fact. But not at every setting or occasion, as Jonathan seems to insist. Jonathan’s mischaracterization of Doug’s body of work on this subject is shameless,… Read more »

Moor
Moor
10 years ago

A simple line can be drawn.

Law to the proud; Grace to the humble.

And they are, after all, called “PRIDE” parades.

Jonathan
Jonathan
10 years ago

Katecho – we battle against principalities and powers, not against people. I addressed that in the next post. Your framing of us as engaged in a constant war against sinners is not how Jesus framed the battle. The sinners are the lost, not our adversaries. Part of engaging them is confronting their sin, but in love – and, like I said, you can have perfect doctrine but not do it in love, so any old way of confronting is not enough. David – I think Paul would have considered himself an “apostle of sin”, no? His own self-applied designation is… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
10 years ago

Katecho, if you think I’ve appointed myself as Doug’s accuser, then does that mean you long ago appointed yourself as my accuser? I try to agree with Doug whenever I can. I LIKE agreeing with Doug. There’s been two posts in the last week alone where I said nothing but affirmation of Doug’s points. I would rather that all of my posts were that way, but I’m always going to say what I believe to be true. You, however, have made ever single comment with my name in it an attack on me. And you’ve made literally hundreds of those… Read more »

katecho
katecho
10 years ago

Jonathan wrote: “Katecho – we battle against principalities and powers, not against people. I addressed that in the next post. Your framing of us as engaged in a constant war against sinners is not how Jesus framed the battle.” Constant war against sinners? Jonathan might need to check his prescription, or, better still, just drop the deliberate mischaracterization. I’ve spoken repeatedly about the principle that there is a distinct difference between how we should engage the enemy civilian and the enemy combatant. If Jonathan is trying to make me feel guilty of warmongering, it’s not working. But there is a… Read more »

LMN
LMN
10 years ago

Katecho shouldn’t be so “K”atty.

Kamilla
10 years ago

A word about dragons. Some years back I was privileged to hear Abp Yong (now retired, then Anglican bishop of SE Asia) speak about his culture. One of the things he talked about was the cultural fascination with dragons. I’ll never forget the moment when he paused and said, “A dragon is merely a dressed up serpent, you know.”

Powerful moment.

Jonathan
Jonathan
10 years ago

“Constant war against sinners? Jonathan might need to check his prescription, or, better still, just drop the deliberate mischaracterization. I’ve spoken repeatedly about the principle that there is a distinct difference between how we should engage the enemy civilian and the enemy combatant.” I already replied to your made-up categories of “civilian” and “combatant” before. The only category Jesus seemed to treat differently were the religious leaders of his own people. He never spoke that way to people who weren’t even among God’s people yet. Genesis 3:15, I hope you realize, refers to a serpent, not a man. The “your… Read more »

Joseph M.
Joseph M.
10 years ago

I’m confused as to who the dragon is in your metaphor…

Zack Skrip
10 years ago

What if instead of using the terms “sinner” and “enemy combatant” we used “sinner” and “false teacher.” Not all of the false teachers in the epistolatory settings were from within. The Colossians were likely dealing with a proto-gnosticism or some sort of generic syncretism. Everyone should have the pure gospel preached to them, but there are those that are outside of us who wish to lead others astray, and there is no question the apostles used harsh words for them.

katecho
katecho
10 years ago

What is the nature of cultural warfare and kingdom conflict? Is it brandished swords, machine guns, crusades, top-down political maneuvering, and setting of legal traps? Jonathan seems to want to hang such imagery around Doug’s neck and wag his finger. But what is Doug actually doing? Doug is fighting using arguments, and principles, and ideas, and labels, and definitions, and with the Gospel, and with worship. This is primarily how Christians do culture war. It is how we take thoughts captive to obedience to Christ. We also do culture war by going as sheep before wolves and lions, as necessary.… Read more »

katecho
katecho
10 years ago

“Genesis 3:15, I hope you realize, refers to a serpent, not a man.” If Jonathan is suggesting that Genesis 3:15 refers simply to our general reaction to snakes, then I realize no such thing. This is a particularly vapid exegesis from Jonathan. The text says: “And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel.” This promise refers to the seed of the woman, the man, Jesus (and those in Him, see Galatians 3:16), and it also refers… Read more »